#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2017-12-18

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[0:04] <fm75> degenerate: FYI, I used dd if=the_image_file.img of=/dev/mmblck0 status=progress bs=4M conf=fsync (but also bs=1M, and then etcher). I also tried the same on another SD card, without any luck
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[0:25] <iEv0lv3__> degenerate: you go to settings>autostart session (or w.e), then turn off sleep locker
[0:26] <iEv0lv3__> Under sessions and startup
[0:26] <iEv0lv3__> I always add the terminal command in there too so when it boots, it brings up terminal automatically
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[0:28] <iEv0lv3__> And how don't you have Seats in your lightdm.comf?
[0:28] * Ilyas (uid43013@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zykuvmdseiulafmq) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] <degenerate> iEv0lv3__: i have [Seats:*] but not [SeatDeafuts]
[0:30] <degenerate> and i can't find the settings page you are referring too... i clicked on the icon in the top right of the screen, and went to raspberry pi settings, but i don't see anything about autostart, etc.
[0:30] <degenerate> sorry i mean top left
[0:31] <iEv0lv3__> Ohh, I'm not running raspian, oops
[0:34] <iEv0lv3__> I don't have [SeatDefaults] either actually. The only "seat default" option I see is in line 4
[0:35] <iEv0lv3__> And then under [LightDM]
[0:35] <iEv0lv3__> Maybe you have to add it?
[0:38] <degenerate> i found this thread: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=144833
[0:38] <degenerate> trying this now
[0:38] <degenerate> problem is i gotta wait 15 mins for every test
[0:38] <degenerate> lol
[0:38] <iEv0lv3__> Ok. I have a script too that helped with this for my debian distro, one sec while I find it
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[0:43] <iEv0lv3__> It's called light locker, or x lock on rpi3. So search how to disable it
[0:44] <iEv0lv3__> I just do it with gui now, but the first time I did thru terminal
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[1:07] <squirrel> mfa298: i finally yielded and got rsync up. man, full disk image in < 2 minutes and it uses just only 300mb
[1:07] <squirrel> 4 line cron job
[1:07] <squirrel> rsync is amazing. thanks!
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[1:46] <iEv0lv3__> Anyone that can assist me piping noip2 (linux no-ip duc) through ngrok. Or maybe dns2tcp thru ngrok?
[1:47] <iEv0lv3__> ^DISREGARD.
[1:47] <iEv0lv3__> Thought I was in Kali channel
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[4:38] * Tenacious-Techhu (6c14db73@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.20.219.115) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:38] <Tenacious-Techhu> Anyone know how to get the Raspberry Pi 3 bootloader to boot to the tty?
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[4:46] <iEv0lv3__> Hold on, I'll tell u
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[4:58] * retrosenator (~pi@72.45.49.222) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:59] <retrosenator> how do I reencode video so omxplayer can play it?>
[5:04] * puzzola (~puzzola@unaffiliated/puzzola) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[5:06] <uriah> uh... I have two pi1 model B’s I’m trying to boot from, the sd card boots on a model a, and on a zero w...
[5:06] <uriah> but not on these
[5:06] <Tenacious-Techhu> Is there a version of the ls command that ignores links?
[5:06] <uriah> just stays stuck in bootloader
[5:06] <HrdwrBoB> Tenacious-Techhu: define 'ignore'
[5:07] <Tenacious-Techhu> By "ignore", I mean "does not display them as entries".
[5:07] * tristero (~nobody@unaffiliated/transfinite) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:07] <HrdwrBoB> but.. they are entities
[5:07] <Tenacious-Techhu> So you have a directory with some actual items in them, and then you have some symbolic links to elsewhere.
[5:07] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[5:07] <Tenacious-Techhu> How do you tell the actual files from the symbolic links?
[5:07] <HrdwrBoB> ls -l
[5:08] <HrdwrBoB> see the 'l' at the start
[5:08] <Tenacious-Techhu> Right, what's the opposite of that?
[5:08] <HrdwrBoB> er
[5:08] <HrdwrBoB> ....
[5:08] <Tenacious-Techhu> So you ignore the symbolic links?
[5:08] <HrdwrBoB> that's not "list only links"
[5:08] <Tenacious-Techhu> And just see the actual files?
[5:08] <HrdwrBoB> that's list files with more detail
[5:08] <Tenacious-Techhu> No, I want to NOT list the links.
[5:08] <HrdwrBoB> you're very confused
[5:08] <HrdwrBoB> why.
[5:08] <HrdwrBoB> that's not a useful thing
[5:08] <Tenacious-Techhu> It is, because it tells you which files are actually in the directory, and which are actually elsewhere.
[5:09] <HrdwrBoB> so does ls -l
[5:09] <HrdwrBoB> except it gives you everything
[5:09] <HrdwrBoB> not to mention
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[5:09] <HrdwrBoB> the defaults are coloured
[5:09] <HrdwrBoB> so you can see the links in a different colour
[5:09] <Tenacious-Techhu> I want the version that shows the non-links, and doesn't show the links; which version is that?
[5:09] <HrdwrBoB> there is none
[5:10] <HrdwrBoB> you're asking the wrong questions
[5:10] <HrdwrBoB> ls -l |grep -v ^l will exclude links
[5:10] * Smeef (~deathonat@unaffiliated/smeef) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:10] <HrdwrBoB> FWIW
[5:10] * puzzola (~puzzola@unaffiliated/puzzola) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:11] <tristero> or "find -maxdepth 1 ! -type l"
[5:11] <Tenacious-Techhu> I'm not asking the wrong question; you just insisted that I must be asking a question that has an answer other than "there isn't one".
[5:12] <HrdwrBoB> let me be clearer; what you are asking for is not typically useful, and it's likely that what you're doing is fundamentally flawed in design
[5:12] <Tenacious-Techhu> No, I'm just trying to find the things that aren't symbolic links.
[5:13] <HrdwrBoB> I base this on literally 20 years of experience, and not needing to do that.
[5:18] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) Quit (Quit: YuGiOhJCJ)
[5:18] <HrdwrBoB> it also feels like you're trying to run before you can walk
[5:20] <HrdwrBoB> possibly school assignment?
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[5:28] <uriah> hmm... does anyone in here still have a running pi1 model b?
[5:30] <Tenacious-Techhu> No, it's not a school assignment; just trying to separate the wheat from the chaff.
[5:30] <Tenacious-Techhu> Also, who is in school this week? I pity them.
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[5:38] <Tenacious-Techhu> iEv0lv3__, how do I boot my Raspberry Pi to the command line?
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[5:46] <Tenacious-Techhu> Anyone know how I can boot my Raspberry Pi to the command line?
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[5:48] <r3> https://elinux.org/RPi_raspi-config#boot_behaviour_-_Start_desktop_on_boot.3F
[5:55] <Tenacious-Techhu> r3, what does raspi-config do to the boot script to boot to the command-line instead?
[5:58] <iEv0lv3__> Tenacious-Techhu: https://forums.kali.org/showthread.php?27191-RPi2-Kali2-0-1-boot-to-commandline-instead-of-X
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[6:00] <r3> Some menu entries modify the file /boot/config.txt. This file, out of the box, contains a number of commented out configuration entries; raspi-config adds entries at the end of this file. You can see what raspi-config has done to the file by viewing it on the Pi using Leafpad.
[6:00] * qerolt (~qerolt@97-113-166-152.tukw.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:01] <r3> really, just read that first link, it talks about raspi-config, the config.txt file, https://elinux.org/R-Pi_configuration_file ... or more options, see http://elinux.org/RPi_config.txt
[6:01] <Tenacious-Techhu> Well, the trouble is, I'm trying to figure out how to boot Lakka to the command-line.
[6:01] <Tenacious-Techhu> I need to edit some stuff.
[6:01] <Tenacious-Techhu> The folks in charge of the Lakka distro don't know anything about booting the Pi to the command line.
[6:02] <Tenacious-Techhu> So I need to figure out what file to edit, and to what.
[6:02] <iEv0lv3__> So find the appropriate path and use the same measures
[6:02] <iEv0lv3__> Idk
[6:02] <iEv0lv3__> Google
[6:03] <iEv0lv3__> I had to Google away to find the raspi-config equivalent in Kali linux
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[6:03] <r3> so, really, you don't want to know "how I can boot my Raspberry Pi to the command line?" - you want to know how to deal with a different OS. I haven't dealt with Lakka, so maybe there is a ##lakka channel?
[6:03] <r3> Sorry, grumpy, should just go to bed I guess. Good luck.
[6:04] <iEv0lv3__> I've heard of about 5 or 6 distros maybe running on rpi3. Never heard of lakka
[6:04] <Tenacious-Techhu> I said it was a Raspberry Pi, and it is.
[6:04] <Tenacious-Techhu> I never said it was Raspbian.
[6:04] <Tenacious-Techhu> I'm really interested in the bootloader, here.
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[6:05] <Tenacious-Techhu> Do you not consider other OSes that run on the Raspberry Pi fair game, when there's a Raspbian channel just across the way, r3?
[6:06] <iEv0lv3__> ^true
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[6:27] <r3> whether or not they are fair game is irrelevant, as most folks asking that question "how can I boot my Raspberry Pi to the command line" are new users trying to sort out how to use their new hardware, most of the time with the image from the foundation. Which is the official supported OS. Your question was misleading in that you were actually attempting to use a different OS, asking in
[6:27] <r3> the channel that is geared to support this majority of users.
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[6:32] <HrdwrBoB> 16:04 < Tenacious-Techhu> I'm really interested in the bootloader, here.
[6:32] <HrdwrBoB> the bootloader doesn't have anything to do with booting to the "command line" or not
[6:32] <HrdwrBoB> Tenacious-Techhu: what are you trying to achieve, overall
[6:32] * RandomJamofJar is now known as Smuckerz
[6:33] <HrdwrBoB> basically "booting to the command line" is roughly analogous to "disabling X windows"
[6:34] <Tenacious-Techhu> HrdwrBoB, Lakka is unusual.
[6:35] <Tenacious-Techhu> They don't know the Raspberry Pi well enough to suggest how to boot to the command-line on it.
[6:35] <Tenacious-Techhu> So I basically have to figure out how the Raspberry Pi distros do it, and replicate that on their distro.
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[6:54] <HrdwrBoB> my point is
[6:54] <HrdwrBoB> what are you trying to do by "booting to command line"
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[6:55] <Tenacious-Techhu> HrdwrBoB, Lakka has two serious problems with it that I'd like to solve with command-line access, and one inconvenience that command-line access would help me work around.
[6:55] <Tenacious-Techhu> First, its WiFi interface doesn't support hidden ssids...
[6:55] <Tenacious-Techhu> So I'll have to do some custom configuration there.
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[6:56] <Tenacious-Techhu> Second, it doesn't have a way to remove keybindings, so I have to edit the file raw.
[6:56] <HrdwrBoB> and you can't do this from a graphic terminal?
[6:56] <Tenacious-Techhu> It doesn't HAVE a graphical terminal.
[6:56] <Tenacious-Techhu> Otherwise, I wouldn't be here asking.
[6:56] <HrdwrBoB> you can't ssh ro it?
[6:56] <HrdwrBoB> *to it
[6:56] <Tenacious-Techhu> And the final problem is that it doesn't have a web browser; which I would like to correct.
[6:56] <Tenacious-Techhu> I can, but then I need to set up certs at both ends, and that's just a nightmare for me right now.
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[7:00] <HrdwrBoB> If you.re using Linux or Mac OS X, there is already an SSH client on your system. Just open a terminal, and type this command:
[7:00] <HrdwrBoB> ssh root@ip-of-your-box
[7:00] <HrdwrBoB> ....
[7:00] <HrdwrBoB> SSH will then ask for your password, the default password is root.
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[7:01] <HrdwrBoB> To access your Lakka box through SSH, you need to connect your Lakka device to the network.
[7:01] <HrdwrBoB> Then, you have to enable SSH in Settings->Services.
[7:01] <HrdwrBoB> http://www.lakka.tv/doc/Accessing-Lakka-command-line-interface/
[7:01] <HrdwrBoB> this doesn't seem particularly difficult
[7:01] <HrdwrBoB> you don't want to "boot to command line" you simply want to access a terminal
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[7:02] <Tenacious-Techhu> You'll note the part about how "booting to the command line" doesn't work on Raspberry Pi there.
[7:03] <Tenacious-Techhu> And yes, a way to do launch a terminal any time I want would be preferable.
[7:04] <oq> "a way to do launch a terminal any time I want would be preferable" mash ctrl-alt-f1,f2,f3,f4 etc
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[7:05] <HrdwrBoB> oq: lakka doesn't start terminals there, it would seem
[7:06] <HrdwrBoB> at least, not without munging
[7:06] <HrdwrBoB> Tenacious-Techhu: yes, but ssh seems pretty easy and obvious
[7:06] <Tenacious-Techhu> It's only easy and obvious until you realize that ssh is the FIRST thing that hackers look for to compromise.
[7:07] <Tenacious-Techhu> By which time, the only responsible way to run ssh is to have certificates at both ends.
[7:07] <oq> just do key based logins only and you're sorted
[7:07] <HrdwrBoB> ...
[7:07] <HrdwrBoB> oh no
[7:07] <HrdwrBoB> 5 minutes work
[7:07] <HrdwrBoB> how will you manage
[7:07] <oq> and nobody is telling you to open up your ssh port to the world
[7:07] <HrdwrBoB> also where are these 'hackers' on your home network
[7:08] <Tenacious-Techhu> If I had two Pis and a crossover cable, I'd do it that way, but I don't. :P
[7:08] <HrdwrBoB> wut?
[7:08] <HrdwrBoB> also it's 2017, you don't need crossover cables
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[7:10] <Tenacious-Techhu> I'm not about to disconnect a bunch of computers and haul them all over the house just to overcome a software problem. :P
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[7:11] <oq> Tenacious-Techhu: why 2 pis?
[7:11] <oq> just ssh into your pi over your network from the computer you're currently on
[7:12] <oq> there's ssh clients for every os
[7:12] <Tenacious-Techhu> Yeah, no. Not going to. Besides, the Lakka install wouldn't be self-sufficient that way.
[7:12] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[7:12] <HrdwrBoB> ert
[7:12] <HrdwrBoB> er
[7:12] <HrdwrBoB> you only need to do this to set it up
[7:12] <Tenacious-Techhu> I don't want to have to run to another computer just to solve a problem with the one I'm at.
[7:12] <HrdwrBoB> HEY FACE, TAKE THIS *cuts off nose*
[7:13] <Tenacious-Techhu> No, key bindings need to be changed fairly regularly, and WiFi goes down.
[7:13] <HrdwrBoB> wut?
[7:13] <HrdwrBoB> your wifi goes down?
[7:13] <Tenacious-Techhu> Shitty Verizon router.
[7:13] <HrdwrBoB> what's the point in wifi that does down
[7:13] <HrdwrBoB> goes
[7:13] <HrdwrBoB> if my wifi is down, it's tools down, rioting.
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[7:17] <Tenacious-Techhu> I agree, but I can't find anything else that uses their stupid MoCA protocol.
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[7:20] <oq> you wouldn't need to replace the whole modem/router combo, just the wifi part
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[7:23] <Tenacious-Techhu> Of course I'd have to replace the whole thing; it would add latency otherwise.
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[7:24] <oq> latency?
[7:24] <oq> my modem, router and wifi access point are all separate machines, there's no extra latency
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[7:47] <akar> do RPi 2 usb data port have backfeed protection?
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[9:04] <uriah> hrm... so my issue is with the kernel I built
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[9:05] <en1gma> what command do i use to list the pi3 broadcom chipset?
[9:06] <uriah> for some reason my config for 4.14.2 is no longer posting (stays at rainbow) for 4.14.6
[9:06] <gordonDrogon> en1gma, try: cat /proc/cpuinfo
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[9:06] * djsxxx_away is now known as Dave_MMP
[9:06] <en1gma> yea that dont do it. tried that b4 i came here :)
[9:06] <uriah> I cloned the rpi-4.14.y branch yesterday :-/
[9:07] <uriah> has anyone else had issues with this branch?
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[9:07] <gordonDrogon> en1gma, well that's it. that's all you get. the chipset is not actually secret though.
[9:07] <en1gma> yea i was googling it. just thought there was a better way to pull that info up
[9:08] <gordonDrogon> documentation on the SoC on the other hand...
[9:09] <uriah> heh
[9:09] <rpdom> Try cat /proc/device-tree/compatible.
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[9:10] <rpdom> That shows brcm,bcm2837brcm,bcm2836 on my Pi3, so it's a bcrm2837
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[9:14] <en1gma> ok 1 sec. lemme try that
[9:14] <en1gma> yep that worked. thanks
[9:14] <en1gma> brb. have to reboot
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[9:17] <uriah> ...maybe I should just make bcmrpi_defconfig and not touch the configuration to see if it works
[9:19] <rpdom> It's often a good plan to start with a known working version before making changes. :-)
[9:19] <uriah> yup
[9:19] <uriah> but I did
[9:20] <uriah> and the 4.14.y branch worked
[9:20] <uriah> a couple of weeks ago at least
[9:21] <uriah> but an extremely similar configuration doesn’t with a git clone from today
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[9:23] <rpdom> That's strange. But I haven't built a kernel for a long while. The default one has everything I need in at the moment.
[9:23] <uriah> heh k
[9:24] * r0Oter is now known as r00ter
[9:24] <uriah> not quite for me
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[9:24] <uriah> also, the default has tons of stuff enabled that isn’t needed
[9:24] <rpdom> True, mostly in modules though.
[9:25] <uriah> yeah
[9:25] <uriah> some modules need to be set to built in for my purposes too
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[9:26] <rpdom> I used to use some odd x86 kit which needed certain old drivers. I made custom stripped down kernels for that with only about six modules for some USB devices. Very small kernel. Booted quite quickly for a 166MHz system
[9:26] <uriah> cool
[9:28] <jacekowski> i used to have a home made linux that ran in 16MB of ram
[9:29] <jacekowski> now my kernel after unpacking will not even fit in that
[9:32] <rpdom> The systems I was using had 32MB, upgradable to 64 if you could find the special module. I have also run Linux on a system with 8MB. I still can't get my head around modern memory sizes. lol
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[9:34] <jacekowski> total used free shared buff/cache available
[9:34] <jacekowski> Mem: 64321 7495 659 20 56165 56527
[9:34] <jacekowski> yes that is 64GB
[9:34] <jacekowski> and i've got 128GB in my desktop, but can't be bothered to turn it on
[9:35] <rpdom> My laptop only has 16GB :-(
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[9:35] <rpdom> I should ask for an upgrade.
[9:35] <jacekowski> and i occasionaly use all 128GB
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[9:36] <jacekowski> though, most of time i'm well under 16
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[9:36] <uriah> heh
[9:37] <rpdom> I don't use a lot most of the time.
[9:37] <rpdom> total used free shared buff/cache available
[9:37] <rpdom> Mem: 15G 3.5G 786M 1.2G 11G 10G
[9:37] <rpdom> Swap: 15G 42M 15G
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[9:57] <uriah> why even use swap when you have 16gb?
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[10:02] <rpdom> I don't know what is using the swap. I guess it's some process that hasn't done anything for a while, so it's been swapped out until it does. Frees up memory for buffers and cache.
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[10:48] <gordonDrogon> there was once an old theory that you had to have swap the same size, or 2x RAM size. This is now thankfully not a requirement, but a little bit of swap can improve things particularly if you set "swappiness" to high. (original Pi image set it to low)
[10:49] <uriah> heh
[10:50] <uriah> I remember the days when it was a must
[10:50] <gordonDrogon> it was just an optimisation.
[10:50] <uriah> well depends on the distribution I guess
[10:51] <uriah> if you had memory intensive stuff back then it was pretty useful
[10:51] <binaryhermit> gordonDrogon: that'd make sd card errors more frequent unless swap was on an external device
[10:52] <binaryhermit> just saying
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[10:52] <gordonDrogon> binaryhermit, it was never an issue - for me, at any rate. Unused stuff got swapped out and stayed there - I was/am carefull enough to not run silly big stuff on a Pi.
[10:52] <gordonDrogon> and now for coffee No. 2. back innabit.
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[11:02] <uriah> rpdom: well... I think either the kernel source I’m using is faulty, or the initramfs crashes before the kernel can post...
[11:03] <uriah> trying to boot a plain bcmrpi_defconfig build also fails
[11:03] <uriah> so... I think that’s it for me tonight
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[11:04] <uriah> I’ll have to wait until popcornmix makes whatever commit fixes the issue and just revert to the sources I used last for now
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[11:39] <tnewman> anyone here using btrfs with their pi?
[11:40] <tnewman> still on my agenda
[11:40] <jacekowski> i now run stuff with 0 swap or minimal swap
[11:40] <jacekowski> and no page file on windows
[11:40] <jacekowski> total used free shared buff/cache available
[11:40] <jacekowski> Mem: 62G 7.3G 554M 20M 55G 55G
[11:40] <jacekowski> Swap: 1.0G 202M 819M
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[11:41] <jacekowski> tnewman: i'm not 100% sure if btrfs on cheap flash memory is a good idea
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[11:43] <tnewman> it'd be using two usb sticks
[11:43] <tnewman> though i do understand your point jacekowski
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[12:06] <gordonDrogon> I keep reading about btrfs and I keep reading about zfs and I keep sticking to ext ... maybe I read too much and act too little ...
[12:07] <shauno> if it ain't broke ..
[12:07] <gordonDrogon> that too.
[12:07] <shauno> (around here, if it ain't broke, it still gets fixed, it just goes to the back of the queue)
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[12:08] <Lartza> I just switched servers from ovh to hetzner and decided to stay with ext4 instead of anything fancy
[12:08] <Lartza> I have used btrfs on my desktops though
[12:09] <Lartza> I think I was looking at XFS instead of ZFS though
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[12:10] <Lartza> Yeah it was XFS, friend said he had heard it's actually good
[12:10] <Lartza> :P
[12:10] <gordonDrogon> I tried xfs - and rejected it as it caused me data loss and the "community" were not that helpful, so abandoned it, never to return.
[12:11] <shiftplusone> A guy on IRC said his friend heard it was good. We have it on highest authority. >.>
[12:11] <Lartza> Friend works at Tuxera, ntfs-3g company
[12:11] <Lartza> But yeah
[12:11] <Lartza> Also XFS does have decent benchmarks
[12:11] <shiftplusone> The number of times ntfs-3g has eaten my data... >.>
[12:12] <Lartza> I think I first read about XFS years ago too and it wasn't that good then but it's for some reason still developed
[12:12] <gordonDrogon> last time I looked at benchmarks they weren't that different to make me think about changing.
[12:12] <Lartza> I've been lucky with ntfs-3g but I don't really use it that much
[12:12] <Lartza> gordonDrogon, It was pretty much on par with ext4 and btrfs
[12:12] <gordonDrogon> once you achieve head speed (on spinning media) then it's game over - you're playing with the efficiency of memory cache, etc.
[12:12] <Lartza> last I checked
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[12:14] <Lartza> Only filesystem I've ever used and lost data has been F2FS
[12:14] <Lartza> But it was on an RPi, my phone was fine with F2FS so maybe power issues :P Very unlikely to recover anything with fsck though compared to ext
[12:15] <Lartza> Also I had to fsck the card on my PC since the RPi just didn't like to do it at all...
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[12:23] <shiftplusone> out of curiosity... why mess around with the alternative filesystems? At this point it all seems a bit bleeding edge or not particularly useful unless you're managing servers and need those features.
[12:24] <gordonDrogon> because it's there/they can/boredom/chasing the bleeding edge/my Pi's faster than your Pi/cool factor/etc.
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[12:27] <shauno> messing around with stuff that I wouldn't on a production envrionment is half the fun of the pi
[12:29] <shiftplusone> Fair enough
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[12:38] <Lartza> shiftplusone, Well for the Pi it was for the performance boost of F2FS, on my server btrfs would have had snapshots etc but meh
[12:39] <Lartza> btrfs should be stable nowadays anyways :P
[12:39] <Lartza> I run Arch on my server so, latest stable kernel anyways
[12:40] <Lartza> Also on old phones/tablets f2fs does give a decent boost without the data loss :P Though maybe it was my Pi PSU at the time
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[14:33] <xochi_> Hello, does anyone use ccache for kernel compilation? How did you assign the linaro cross compiler from the tools directory to work with ccache?
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[14:40] <shiftplusone> xochi_: something something PATH something something symlinks
[14:41] <shiftplusone> I think the ccache manpage should explain it fairly weel
[14:41] <shiftplusone> *well
[14:41] <shiftplusone> you want the toolchain binaries to be symlinks to ccache, then ccache figures out where they really are.
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[14:45] <xochi_> thank you, I'm linking around from toolchain and back, but it didn't work instantly. somehow I am not sure which gcc exactly it takes.
[14:47] <shiftplusone> what's the filename of the gcc binary you want to use... should be something like arm-gnueabihf-linaro-armhf or something
[14:47] <shiftplusone> -gcc
[14:48] <shiftplusone> arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc, right?
[14:48] <shiftplusone> what's the output of 'which arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc' ?
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[14:52] <xochi_> it points to $HOME/tools/arm-bcm2708/gcc-linaro-arm-linux-gnueabihf-raspbian/bin/arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc
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[14:53] <xochi_> when I try to link it it says it would already exist, but does not show up in /usr/lib/ccache like the other compilers
[14:53] <xochi_> (and .ccache dir does not fill up like it does when using gcc)
[14:54] <xochi_> maybe it's a var in ccache config I have to set...?
[14:54] <tnewman> gordonDrogon: the main appeal of zfs and btrfs is its ability to detect and recover from errors
[14:54] <shiftplusone> It just sounds like you're not linking it right
[14:54] <tnewman> i take that back, its an appeal, perhaps not necessarily the 'main' appeal
[14:55] <tnewman> gordonDrogon: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/bitrot-and-atomic-cows-inside-next-gen-filesystems/
[14:55] <gordonDrogon> I know what the appeal is, thanks.
[14:55] <gordonDrogon> but what's the point of error checking data when the memory isn't ecc (on a Pi).
[14:57] <tnewman> not again
[14:59] <xochi_> oh, sorry, I like it in the "wrong" direction (ls -s TARGET LINK)... now it seems to do.
[14:59] <xochi_> *linked
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[15:02] * shiftplusone always gets the ln source/target mixed up
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[16:10] <DrunkenDwarf> Hi All. I have a touchscreen which I need to rotate 180 degrees. It's HDMI driven so lcd_rotate=2 in the config.txt doesn't work (only works for DSI screens). display_rotate=2 rotates the display but I need a way to also rotate the touchscreen co-ords
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[16:35] <gordonDrogon> Heh... anyone want to buy an IBM mainframe? ebay: 202150611330 buyer collect though :)
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[16:44] <shiftplusone> Don't quite have enough change in my pocket for that
[16:44] <r3> I had a VAX in storage for a number of years - was hoping to get the right power wired in the basement and get it hooked up. The plan had a fatal flaw, however, in that I couldn't fit it down the stairs. I sold it to a collector eventually.
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[16:48] <tnewman> raspberry pi 3 booting / on btrfs!
[16:48] <tnewman> feeling accomplished!
[16:49] <iEv0lv3__> r3 weird, heard that same srory elsewhere not to long ago. By someone who got it from someone who couldn't fit it in the basement.
[16:50] <iEv0lv3__> *too
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[16:53] <bcz> hi ladies, hi gentlemen. anyone got experience with booting from usb and did some troubleshooting as well? i got the problem that if i remove the sd card and only use the usb stick the screen stays blank and i dont see the green LED working at all.
[16:54] <bcz> i was able to mount the usb disk as root partition and use it as a workaround but it still screws me when the sd card locks up
[16:54] <r3> heh, I have also heard similar stories, that I take to be apocryphal, but I've photos somewhere as proof as well as old bills from the storage unit. The fact that I could run an emulator on a system smaller than a loaf of bread made me realize the folly of trying to fulfill the plan. Cooling was another concern.
[16:54] <bcz> i would love to boot only from usb but i seem to be unable to. i made this little line in the cmdline.txt. any other ideas? i also get the appropriate response when running vcgencmd otp_dump | grep 17:
[16:56] <shiftplusone> bcz: what happens if you just write the image, without any modifications onto a USB stick and try to boot off that?
[16:56] <r3> I'm not sure that's possible, bcz, the boot device I thought was 'hardcoded' somehow to always look for the SD card? I'm sure I read somewhere that one cannot boot from usb.
[16:56] <bcz> shiftplusone, black screen
[16:56] <shiftplusone> r3: it's possible.
[16:56] <bcz> r3, the rpi3 should be able to
[16:56] <bcz> if you change the config.txt
[16:57] * r3 wonders what he read then about it
[16:57] <bcz> you maybe read about < rpi3, i think those still had to have the bootloader on the sd card
[16:57] <shiftplusone> bcz: what if the only thing you have on the sd card is a bootcode.bin on a fat32 partition and nothing else?
[16:57] <bcz> shiftplusone, that works
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[16:58] <shiftplusone> then the usb stick is just not supported by the bootrom that's burned into the chip.
[16:58] <bcz> shiftplusone, i must be so unlucky then. i tried like 3 different brands
[16:58] <bcz> is there a way to find out if its supported or not?
[16:59] <r3> I found this, bcz: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bootmodes/msd.md
[16:59] <bcz> by looking at the vendor/product id or whatever
[16:59] <shiftplusone> you're 100% sure the OTP bit is set?
[16:59] <bcz> shiftplusone, vcgencmd otp_dump | grep 17:
[16:59] <bcz> 17:3020000a
[16:59] <shiftplusone> hmm
[16:59] <shiftplusone> I haven't had problems with normal usb sticks
[16:59] <bcz> r3, yeah, i followed that. and i am pretty confident i made it correctly. i heard that some usb sticks are just not working but i have a hard time finding out how to identify them properly
[17:00] <shiftplusone> hard drives can be a problem since they take a while to spin up and may time out
[17:00] <shiftplusone> what's wrong with having a small card with the bootcode.bin as a workaround then? it's still booting off USB for all intents and purposes
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[17:00] <bcz> shiftplusone, i had it setup like this and after a power outage yesterday it boots into rainbow
[17:00] <r3> no sneaky tabs masquerading as spaces in the config.txt?
[17:01] <bcz> can i just add a file without any content to the sd card?
[17:01] <bcz> or is the bootcode.bin something special?
[17:01] <bcz> and if yes, can i use the one supplied by the official raspbian image?
[17:01] <shiftplusone> bcz: bootcode.bin is something special. I thought you just said earlier that it works with just bootcode.bin?
[17:01] <shiftplusone> yes you can
[17:01] <bcz> yeah but i dont remember where i got that file from
[17:02] <shiftplusone> the workaround only works if the only thing on the card is bootcode.bin (no start.elf or anything like that)
[17:02] <bcz> okay. ill give it a shot. thanks. its still bugging me.
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[17:17] * pwillard is happy with having a PiDrive knowing that recovering a bad SD card will be easier.
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[17:55] <Kryczek> pwillard: what kind of PiDrive, and what does it do?
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[17:57] <pwillard> Its a nice pi-specific hard drive that costs about as much as a SD card made by Western Digital. I use the 314GB version on a number of my Pi3's. Yes, its spinning rust... but that makes it more reliable than an SDcard that get s very abused.
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[18:02] <Kryczek> not judging, just curious :)
[18:02] <Kryczek> I have a Pi sitting on top of a large external (USB) hard drive
[18:03] <pwillard> http://wdlabs.wd.com/category/wd-pidrive/ The cheap one.
[18:03] <Kryczek> years later I still giggle at the thought of the computer being smaller than the HDD
[18:03] <pwillard> LOL
[18:03] <pwillard> true
[18:03] <gordonDrogon> oh I don't know - when hard drives were 14" diameter...
[18:04] * Dave_MMP is now known as djsxxx_away
[18:04] <Kryczek> pwillard: is there a case that goes well with it?
[18:04] <Kryczek> gordonDrogon: good point :) but then again wasn't it when the computers took the whole room? :P
[18:05] <gordonDrogon> er, yes!
[18:05] <Ether_Man> gordonDrogon, there were even larger ones too :)
[18:05] <gordonDrogon> I know - seen some platters of them.
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[18:05] <Kryczek> my first computer (286) had 5.25" HDDs of 20, 30 and 50MB
[18:05] <rpdom> gordonDrogon: Removable or fixed? We had a room for the disks, another for the computer and the main one for the printers, tape drives and comms racks
[18:06] <Ether_Man> Reliable things though. Especially compared to the hole punch tapes and cards that came before it.
[18:06] <Kryczek> one time I ran chkdsk on a dying one with the cover removed, it was beautiful to watch
[18:06] <rpdom> I didn't use punch tapes, but did use cards at first.
[18:06] <gordonDrogon> the only ones I've used (handled) were RK05's.
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[18:07] <gordonDrogon> TNMoC have some platters that look to be about 3' in diameter.
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[18:07] <rpdom> My first hard drive was a 10MB 5.25" full-height on a BBC B. That was nice.
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[18:08] <gordonDrogon> rpdom, what was the computer?
[18:08] <rpdom> gordonDrogon: Honeywell/Bull DPS8
[18:08] <gordonDrogon> I've used a big 'winchester' drive off an Apple II - it was about 8" diameter - not quite bigger than the II, but getting close once the box & interface was taken into account.
[18:08] <gordonDrogon> ok
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[18:10] <Ether_Man> First harddrive I remember using was this awesome 32kB one. Absolutely massive at the time :)
[18:10] <Ether_Man> Not a clue what it was named though... Way too long ago now :)
[18:10] <gordonDrogon> 32K? I've seen a 32K drum unit hooked up to a PDP-8
[18:10] <pwillard> Yes, there is a matching case for the drive
[18:11] <gordonDrogon> somewhat ironic as the PDP-8 has 32K (12-bit words) memory :)
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[18:11] <rpdom> I will have to go to TNMoC someday. It isn't that far away and I think they might be using some software I wrote.
[18:11] <pwillard> http://wdlabs.wd.com/products/enclosure-kit/
[18:11] <gordonDrogon> there is a pdp-8 thing in the new year that I'm going along to.
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[18:12] <gordonDrogon> software on what machine?
[18:12] <rpdom> BBC Micro
[18:13] <pwillard> I attached my first 5M hard drive to a Compaq luggable
[18:13] <gordonDrogon> oh right. they have a lab full of beeb's
[18:13] <gordonDrogon> I think the first drive I owned was a 5MB Roline connected to an Apple II
[18:14] <gordonDrogon> it was formatted to look something like 150 floppies..
[18:14] * [Butch] (~butch@169.145.89.203) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:14] <rpdom> I was Technical Manager for CommunITel for a while. I rewrote most of their software. I think TNMoC runs a version of that
[18:15] <gordonDrogon> oh, I remember that.
[18:15] <pwillard> and I have definitely fussed with my share of these... https://www.ebay.com/itm/DEC-SEAGATE-RD51-A-10MB-MFM-ST506-5-25-WINCHESTER-DISK-DRIVE-ST-412-RD51-XXDP/232088572954
[18:15] <rpdom> I got the job because I got hold of a slightly dodgy copy of their software and improved it a lot.
[18:16] <gordonDrogon> :)
[18:17] <gordonDrogon> I sometimes take my old beeb & apple II to local meets.
[18:17] <gordonDrogon> it keeps some of them amused for oh ... 3 minutes?
[18:17] <rpdom> It was even easier to hack once I got my hands on the source. I made two versions. The official version and my version with extra features.
[18:18] <rpdom> I got rid of me Beebs a few years ago due to lack of space. A pity, but I had other things to do. I even gave away my old ARM copro
[18:18] <r3> I would just power on and off the apple II in order to get the floppy drive to make the noise ;)
[18:19] <rpdom> Seeing the Beeb boot up with "Acorn Computer 4096K" confused a lot of people :-)
[18:19] * Kozuch (~Kozuch@81.0.198.168) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[18:20] <gordonDrogon> I had an Arc at one point, but I gave it away.
[18:21] <rpdom> Me too. A310. I got an early one. I went to the launch and some demo sessions at Cambridge.
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[18:23] <gordonDrogon> I think work was getting too much in the way at that point - I'd moved from Edinburgh to Bristol, then went to the US for 3 years.
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[18:23] * nils_2_ is now known as nils_2
[18:24] <rpdom> I was working at CommunITel in London at the time. Of course they were interested in that sort of thing, so sent me to those events.
[18:24] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@2a01cb0401d1720075e7d30102b2bd9b.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:27] <rpdom> I was given a floppy disk with some programs for the Mater Compact on at one point. I got curious and looked at the unallocated sectors of the disk and found fragments of internal documentation about the ARM chipset development. Four chips in those days: CPU, Memory controller, IO controller and video controller. Lots of talk about whether to add stereo sound and how much "sand" it would take up
[18:27] <rpdom> *Master
[18:27] * h4ndy is now known as H4ndy
[18:28] <gordonDrogon> and people still make mistakes like that today in word (etc) documents which store "undo" lists..
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[18:29] <rpdom> Oh yes.
[18:29] <xochi_> Does anybody use uboot and deploy kernels via tftp?
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[18:42] <shiftplusone> xochi_: heads up that you don't need to use uboot for that. Pi 3 supports network boot... usually.
[18:44] * BlackMaria (~BlackMari@104-163-139-39.qc.dsl.ebox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[18:45] <xochi_> shiftplusone: I'm on the RPi 1 B, but yes, I think I stay but scripting scp'ing files to the pi in order to deploy new builds... Just asked as I didn't find any promising howtos about this.
[18:46] <shiftplusone> it would work with an rpi1 too if you use the bootcode.bin trick. Haven't used uboot on a pi myself, so can't help there.
[18:46] <shiftplusone> anyway... home time. Good luck
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[18:51] <pwillard> http://crtrofbrockton.com/drivesinteeth.JPG Die Bits DIE!
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[19:27] <Case77> I was wondering if anyibe has had much luck using gigabit adapters on the Pi3?
[19:30] <shauno> someone was saying they got >100meg with a gigabit adaptor, so I assume so
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[19:31] <SirLagz> Case77: I think I got it up to ~250mbit with iperf over USB with a gigabit adapter
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[19:36] <Case77> ok cool.. I know the USB chip set can't do full Gigabit I was jsut curious what it could get up to I was planning on susing a couple of Pis for a testing tool but I'm trying to get as closte to gigabit as I can.
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[19:42] <shauno> you'll get nowhere close to gigabit. you'll just get more than 100meg, because usb2 can go faster than 100meg.
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[19:44] <Case77> got it.. that's what I thought..
[19:46] <bobstro> What speeds are you guys getting with USB3 adapters?
[19:47] <bobstro> Mine topped off at 113 Mbps (testing with iperf), but I’ve read of people getting closer to 300.
[19:48] <tnewman> any btrfs users?
[19:48] <tnewman> i've managed to get a single btrfs volume to boot
[19:48] <bobstro> I think my testing may have been flawed though, adapter may have only initialized as 100BaseT
[19:48] <tnewman> but when i add a second drive, convert to raid1, the kernel cant assemble the array
[19:48] <tnewman> but the array is fine if i try to mount it from booted sd card
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[19:58] <pwillard> that poor internal bus is only going to go so fast.
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[20:13] <bobstro> the bus is a bottleneck, but not always so bad as it seems. disk seems to choke things more than network.
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[20:14] <bobstro> pwillard: not sure if you meant the network discussion or disk discussion.
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[20:19] <pwillard> network... but disk applies... same issue. (since we have no out of the box Sata option)
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[20:22] <bobstro> Jeff Geerling reported getting 320+ Mbps raw throughput with USB3 1G adapters on a 2B. The Tinkerboard and Rock64 boards are as fast as advertised, so they’ve done something right. I’m mostly interested in router configurations.
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[20:53] <pwillard> The a20 based Banapi comes in a router configuration already. http://www.banana-pi.org/r1.html
[20:55] <bobstro> I looked at that. The reviews weren’t too impressive, sadly. I’m just looking for something for travel and dealing with hotel wifi portals and such, so need it small. Thanks tho.
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[21:48] <tnewman> is this a good guide https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bootmodes/net_tutorial.md ?
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[21:50] -tomaw- [Global Notice] Hi all, we'll be taking down ChanServ, NickServ and their friends for a few minutes while we apply an update. This should be brief and further updates will be provided by WALLOPS (/mode <yournick> +w to receive them)
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[21:53] <akk> Wow, network boot is still a thing?
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[21:53] <tnewman> keeps from burning through sd cards
[21:56] <uriah> hmm... compiling kernel 4.14.7 for rpi now... let’s see if it’ll boot this time
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[22:30] <rawf> I was thinking about using an RPi with two (powered) USB HDDs (RAID1) as a quiet, small NAS. I figured the primary bottleneck will be the 10/100 ethernet jact (RPi 3B), which is fine with me. Are there any other things I should consider?
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[22:31] <SpeedEvil> The USB jack is one shared port on a hub.
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> Which is shared with the network.
[22:32] <SpeedEvil> So it's three way contention.
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[22:33] <kerio> ?
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[22:38] <rawf> I understand that the two HDDs will be fighting over the single USB hub (fighting over 480 mbps)
[22:38] <rawf> won't this not be an issue though, since these rates will be under a 100 mbps ethernet bottleneck?
[22:40] <rawf> I don't understand the three way contention you mentioned
[22:40] <rawf> it seems to me that this should provide a 100 mbps NAS in theory
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[22:52] <ali1234> rawf: ethernet also uses USB
[22:52] <ali1234> it also has a certain amount of overhead
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[22:55] <ali1234> supposing you save a file on the NAS, it has to be transfered over the network, using 100mbps of USB bandwidth. then it has to be written to both disks, using another 200mbps of USB bandwidth. for a total of 300mbpa
[22:56] <ali1234> factor in USB packet overhead and you are reaching the limit of what is possible
[22:56] <ali1234> note that USB is half duplex - it can't send and receive at the same time
[22:56] <uriah> best bet is an rpi zero w with a good powered USB hub so that it’s two way instead
[22:57] <ali1234> no, the best bet is to just buy a NAS. it will have gigabit ethernet and a hardware RAID controller
[22:57] <uriah> true
[22:57] <ali1234> it will outperform an rpi by a factor of 10, easily
[22:57] <ali1234> and probably use half the power while doing it
[22:59] <rawf> What appeals to me about the RPi is the silence, size, and administration.
[22:59] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[22:59] <rawf> I want control over SSH and other services
[23:00] <ali1234> if you insist on using an rpi, then you want a rpi3. the quad core and extra memory will help with the large amount of USB traffic
[23:00] <rawf> ah, I was thinking rpi3b but just didn't say it
[23:01] <ali1234> many NAS come with ssh administration and can be rooted
[23:02] <rawf> My minimum software requirements are: sFTP access with ssh-keys ( no password authentication ) and autossh for an ssh tunnel.
[23:02] <rawf> I'd also potentially connect it to speakers as an MPD server
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[23:02] <ali1234> many of them can do that too
[23:03] <ali1234> they are expensive though
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[23:03] <rawf> I figured I could set this up for ~ $240, with 4 TB of RAID storage.
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[23:03] <Tenacious-Techhu> Anyone know any good resolution test images?
[23:04] <kerio> ali1234: did you just suggest hardware raid in 2017
[23:04] <ali1234> on a NAS? yes
[23:05] <Tenacious-Techhu> Hardware RAID is the only way to prevent write holes.
[23:05] <Tenacious-Techhu> I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Journalling doesn't cover that problem.
[23:06] <kerio> what is zfs
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[23:06] <ali1234> bloatware mainly
[23:06] <Tenacious-Techhu> zfs is a well-intentioned file system that is not recommended unless you're running server hardware.
[23:06] <kerio> ayy lmao
[23:06] <ali1234> let me just go find a NAS with 1TB of RAM to run it
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[23:47] <No0n3Left> If I need very good WiFi connectivity on the pi3, would you suggest attaching a U.FL external antenna like (https://www.dorkbotpdx.org/blog/wramsdell/external_antenna_modifications_for_the_raspberry_pi_3) or just using a USB alfa WiFi adapter. I have gotten the alfa wifi to work, but, just wonder what the quality of the builtin wifi with an external antenna would be like.
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[23:51] <No0n3Left> Also, what would be a good size battery for a raspi laptop? Dont need exacts or anything, just kinda a size to look at.
[23:51] <CoJaBo> No0n3Left: I'd imagine an adapter designed to use an antenna would tend to work better
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[23:53] <No0n3Left> CoJaBo: Ok, thats what I was kinda thinking too
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[23:53] <Tenacious-Techhu> No0n3Left, a Raspberry Pi 3 uses 2.5A at 5V; this means it uses 12.5 Watts.
[23:53] <ali1234> not really though
[23:54] <CoJaBo> When evaluating power use for battery, you want average use
[23:54] <ali1234> that's the maximum rating
[23:54] * GenteelBen sniffs CoJaBo
[23:54] <Tenacious-Techhu> Figure how long you want the Laptop to run, and then find a battery that provides that product of Watt-Hours.
[23:54] <CoJaBo> The screen/etc will probably use more power than the pi
[23:54] <Tenacious-Techhu> Yes, factor in the Watt-Hours of the screen, too.
[23:54] * d0rm0us3 (~any@unaffiliated/anym0us3) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[23:54] <Tenacious-Techhu> Sorry, the Watts, not Watt-Hours.
[23:54] <CoJaBo> Also, I'd probably go starkraving mad if forced to use a pi-powered laptop for any length of time
[23:55] <ali1234> i'd aim for about 8000mAh
[23:55] <Tenacious-Techhu> It's better than OLPC's XO-1, THAT'S for sure.
[23:55] <No0n3Left> CoJaBo: Not using it as primary laptop, just for fun really
[23:55] <Tenacious-Techhu> That's too small, even for just the Pi.
[23:55] <CoJaBo> I have a 10,000mAh battery pack that runs a pi seemingly forever
[23:56] <Tenacious-Techhu> CoJaBo, how long would it run full blast while taking keyboard and trackpad input?
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[23:56] <ali1234> it should run a rpi3 (no peripherals) for 8+ hours
[23:56] <ali1234> keyboard and mouse will have almost no effect on that if they are decent
[23:57] <Tenacious-Techhu> It depends on what you mean by "decent".
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[23:57] <CoJaBo> INB4 RGB keyboard and mouse
[23:57] <Tenacious-Techhu> If your definition of "decent" is a 1000 Hz polling Gaming Mouse with LED accents...
[23:57] <ali1234> pretty much anything made by a company you have heard of that isn't "gaming RGB LED" nonsense
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[23:58] <Tenacious-Techhu> I would argue that is a fair definition of "decent". :)
[23:58] <Tenacious-Techhu> I have some restarting to do... back later.
[23:58] <CoJaBo> This RGB fad has gotten out of hand
[23:58] * Tenacious-Techhu (6c14db73@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.20.219.115) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[23:58] <ali1234> now the screen is a bigger problem... that will cut your battery life in half
[23:58] <CoJaBo> They have bluetooth RGB fidget spinners now
[23:58] <ali1234> but 4 hours is still decent
[23:59] <ali1234> but really it's a question of how much battery you are willing to carry around
[23:59] <CoJaBo> I'm actually still not sure what a fidget spinner is.
[23:59] <CoJaBo> My laptop is like 13lbs
[23:59] <ali1234> CoJaBo: it's a skateboard bearing molded into a triangular plastic, and sold to gullible children
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