#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2017-12-19

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <CoJaBo> y.tho
[0:00] <CoJaBo> Srsly tho, why add bluetooth to that
[0:00] <ali1234> because kids stopped buying pogs
[0:00] <CoJaBo> ..dafuq are pogs
[0:01] <ali1234> pogs are collectable cardboard discs with different artwork on them
[0:01] <GenteelBen> MILK CAPS
[0:01] * djk (~Thunderbi@pool-96-242-33-53.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:01] <ali1234> they are used in a game where you stack them up and throw a plastic disk at the stack and which ever ones land face up, you win
[0:01] <GenteelBen> CoJaBo, your tender years betray you.
[0:01] <ali1234> this encouraging children to gamble
[0:01] * GenteelBen steals CoJaBo's slammers
[0:02] <ali1234> and yes the game was first played using home made pogs, made from milk bottle caps
[0:02] <GenteelBen> ali1234: dude, some of them were metal.
[0:02] <ali1234> that too, metal ones were banned in my school
[0:02] * TReK (~UnFaQ@unaffiliated/trek) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[0:02] <GenteelBen> Remember this one? https://static1.milkcapmania.co.uk/Img/Chupa%20Caps/Slammers/300DPI/Metal-Pink-Front.png
[0:02] <ali1234> i remember that design
[0:03] <ali1234> not on the metal ones though
[0:03] <GenteelBen> These were the "official" Pogman ones: http://i.imgur.com/1t7PGvH.jpg
[0:03] <GenteelBen> Man I still have those.
[0:03] * ech0s7 (~ech0s7@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:03] <GenteelBen> I have a shoebox of pogs in my cupboard.
[0:03] <ali1234> yeah i've still got a couple of those somewhere too
[0:04] * TReK (~UnFaQ@unaffiliated/trek) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:05] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@2a01cb0401d1720030d5b4fc7ca8b0f7.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[0:08] * Dimik (~Dimik@ool-182e2df5.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] * p71 (~chatzilla@71-90-117-89.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:10] <GenteelBen> We should face off for them, ali1234.
[0:10] <GenteelBen> #raspberrypi Pog Night
[0:10] <GenteelBen> RaspberryPog
[0:15] <ali1234> i'm actually curious about the bluetooth fidget spinner now. does it have a app?
[0:15] * Tenacious-Techhu (6c14db73@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[0:17] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[0:17] * sponge-tmp (~sponge-tm@unaffiliated/sponge-tmp) Quit (Quit: used escape rope!)
[0:18] * ech0s7 (~ech0s7@ Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[0:19] * pepee (~pepee@unaffiliated/pepee) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:19] * davr0s (~textual@host81-155-67-179.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:21] <GenteelBen> ali1234, I've seen things even more rad.
[0:21] <GenteelBen> There's a porno with anal fidget spinners. We have achieved fidget spinner singularity.
[0:23] * Dragon092 (~Dragon@2001:4ba0:ffa4:298::) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[0:24] * nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) Quit (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)
[0:25] <Tenacious-Techhu> We haven't achieved fidget spinner singularity until they start being used for flywheel energy storage.
[0:25] <Tenacious-Techhu> That would be a good argument that fidget spinners have jumped the shark, though.
[0:27] * rorro (~rorro@h-170-152-58.A163.priv.bahnhof.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[0:28] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:31] * TheWarden (~chatzilla@ Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93-rdmsoft [XULRunner 41.0.2/20171112134802])
[0:36] * Kozuch (~Kozuch@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:37] * Tenacious-Techhu (6c14db73@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[0:45] * xavkno (~Xavkno@dhcp-089-099-034-132.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[0:50] * tachoknight_ (~tachoknig@2601:241:100:2071:4d94:6100:427e:c945) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:51] * tommy`` (~UPP@host239-51-dynamic.250-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: :::: ( UPP ) ::::)
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[0:53] * djk (~Thunderbi@pool-96-242-33-53.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: djk)
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[0:59] * gugah (~gugah@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:00] * Sonar_Guy (~Who@fedora/sonarguy) Quit (Quit: Sorry, but its time for me to go!)
[1:01] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[1:05] * kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@70-139-18-232.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:07] * Pinhole (~david@cust-208-75-142-166.bozeman.lightnex.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:08] <Pinhole> Which distributions have composite video (US) and analog audio working for the pi3?
[1:09] * Case77 (~Case77@pool-108-44-24-32.albyny.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: User disconnected)
[1:11] * DeadTOm (~deadtom@2001:4b98:dc0:41:216:3eff:fe58:44d0) Quit (Quit: DeadTOm)
[1:13] * exotime (~exotime@gateway/tor-sasl/exotime) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[1:16] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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[1:18] * Syliss (~Syliss@asa1.digitalpath.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:18] * exotime (~exotime@gateway/tor-sasl/exotime) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:22] * No0n3Left (~No0n3Left@ip70-191-168-52.pn.at.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[1:22] * Flynnn (~textual@unaffiliated/flynnn) Quit (Quit: Auf Wiedersehen!)
[1:24] * dan3wik (~dan2wik@unaffiliated/dan2wik) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:24] * pklaus (~pklaus@200116b8200e8d00adb5e81607b27aa5.dip.versatel-1u1.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[1:34] * tachoknight_ (~tachoknig@2601:241:100:2071:4d94:6100:427e:c945) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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[1:36] * kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@70-139-18-232.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[1:37] * Kanerix (~Kanerix@c-174-52-1-125.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:40] <iampete> hey guys, something just fell off my Pi 3. Can someone tell me if it's important and if so can I solder it back on? https://imgur.com/a/EBuQP
[1:41] <Kanerix> That's the wifi antenna
[1:41] * GenteelBen (~GenteelBe@cpc111801-lutn14-2-0-cust55.9-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit ()
[1:41] <iampete> shit
[1:42] <iampete> i don't need it per say but can I solder it?
[1:42] * obihann (~obihann@ Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[1:42] <Kanerix> I have no idea if that'll work. I just recognize the part.
[1:43] <iampete> thanks, guess it's worth a try
[1:43] <Kanerix> Antennas like that usually need a precise wavelength, don't they?
[1:43] <Kanerix> Like, is it going to work if it's misaligned?
[1:44] <iampete> no idea
[1:44] <Kanerix> I guess it's better to try than to not
[1:44] * kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@70-139-18-232.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:44] <shauno> it should work if you solder it back on. they're nothing scary connection-wise
[1:44] <Kanerix> I'm not so good at the whole soldering-thing
[1:44] <iampete> I have some very fine solder so\
[1:45] * Cavedude (~Cavedude@unaffiliated/cavedude) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:45] <Kanerix> What are you using it for?
[1:45] <iampete> I'll let you guys know if it works
[1:45] <Kanerix> Okay, good luck
[1:45] <shauno> wouldn't be my idea of a fun time either heh. but ceramic antennas are only fancy on the inside
[1:46] <Kanerix> May you have a steady hand
[1:46] <iampete> i'm using 8 Pis on a switch
[1:46] <Kanerix> Ah, good to know
[1:46] <Kanerix> ah
[1:46] <Kanerix> That's many
[1:47] <iampete> yup my research grant just came in so I'm very excited
[1:47] * NullMoogleCable (NullMoogle@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:47] <Kanerix> Researching what?
[1:48] * ech0s7 (~ech0s7@ Quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
[1:49] <iampete> I'm building a application layer networking moving target defense protocol using SCTP in Rust for Argonne National Labs
[1:50] <iampete> pretty cool stuff
[1:51] * lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPE64777dd7e053-CM64777dd7e050.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:52] * PityDaFool (~AfroThund@pool-71-244-241-187.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:54] * clemens3 (~clemens@80-218-38-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:55] * PityDaFool (~AfroThund@pool-71-244-241-187.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:55] * ChunkzZ (uid233645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uhgjqurolegrrtuf) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[1:58] * leothrix (~leothrix@elastic/staff/leothrix) Quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in)
[1:59] * djk (~Thunderbi@pool-96-242-33-53.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:01] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[2:03] * Kanerix (~Kanerix@c-174-52-1-125.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Welp...)
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[2:08] * stiv (~steve@blender/coder/stivs) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[2:08] * stivs is now known as stiv
[2:10] * MysT_DooM (~Oracle@pool-108-45-75-78.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:32] * Tenacious-Techhu (6c14db73@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[2:35] * xavkno (~Xavkno@ Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[2:44] * pepee (~pepee@unaffiliated/pepee) Quit (Quit: bye $IRC)
[2:44] * shantorn (~W7SAK-Sha@67-5-133-199.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:47] * pm001 (~pac@p57B83C06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[2:52] * akk (~akkana@75-161-91-17.albq.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: +++)
[2:55] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:56] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[2:57] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:05] * MysT_DooM (~Oracle@pool-108-45-75-78.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: MysT_DooM)
[3:06] * rorro (~rorro@h-170-152-58.A163.priv.bahnhof.se) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:08] * diK (~diK@2a02:810c:c8c0:bb4:cba5:91cf:7689:d6bb) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[3:16] * Dimik (~Dimik@ool-182e2df5.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[3:24] * PityDaFool (~AfroThund@pool-71-244-241-187.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:27] * flommi (~flommi@p20030079CF22B400BA27EBFFFE173B6A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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[3:41] * d4rklit3 (~textual@rrcs-64-183-104-146.west.biz.rr.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[3:54] * mschorm (~mschorm@ip-78-102-201-117.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[3:54] * one2zero (~one2zero@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:55] * ebsen (~ebsene@96-2-74-147-dynamic.midco.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:55] * shantorn (~W7SAK-Sha@67-5-133-199.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:56] * Pinhole (~david@cust-208-75-142-166.bozeman.lightnex.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[4:00] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@50-25-87-198.amrlcmtk05.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[4:05] * r00ter (~r00ter@p54BB6155.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[4:06] * stormbytes (~textual@ool-18e4a330.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:06] * Flynnn (~textual@unaffiliated/flynnn) Quit (Quit: Auf Wiedersehen!)
[4:10] * d4rklit3 (~textual@rrcs-64-183-104-146.west.biz.rr.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[4:13] * mschorm (~mschorm@ has joined #raspberrypi
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[4:19] * ebsen (~ebsene@96-2-74-147-dynamic.midco.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[4:20] * Dimik (~Dimik@ool-182e2df5.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:20] * ali1234 (~ali1234@2a01:4f8:162:4348::2) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[4:29] * nfk (~nfk@unaffiliated/nfk) Quit (Client Quit)
[4:32] <tnewman> sorry to keep spanning pi related boot stuff
[4:32] <tnewman> do any of yall have a go-to guide for creating a network boot setup?
[4:33] <tnewman> http://web-docs.gsi.de/~bloeher/howto/rpi3_netboot.html looks good
[4:34] <tnewman> looks really simple actually
[4:34] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:35] * ali1234 (~ali1234@2a01:4f8:162:4348::2) has joined #raspberrypi
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[4:39] * ebsen (~ebsene@96-2-74-147-dynamic.midco.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:40] <ophuk> I have a raspberry pi w hooked put to a monitor and the DE doesn’t seem to finish loading. I get to a black screen with a cursor. I can open a browser and terminal via right click but no menus in general
[4:40] <ophuk> I don’t see anything in the logs for showing the error, any ideas why it would be doing this?
[4:41] * ebsen (~ebsene@96-2-74-147-dynamic.midco.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[4:43] * ophuk (~shade3432@ Quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com)
[4:45] * wgas (~wgas@unaffiliated/wgas) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:45] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:47] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
[4:48] * dan2wik (~dan2wik@unaffiliated/dan2wik) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[4:53] * dan2wik (~dan2wik@unaffiliated/dan2wik) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[4:53] * Noldorin (~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[4:55] * djk (~Thunderbi@ Quit (Quit: djk)
[5:00] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[5:01] * dan2wik (~dan2wik@unaffiliated/dan2wik) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[5:04] * pepee (~pepee@unaffiliated/pepee) Quit (Quit: bye $IRC)
[5:04] * Dimik (~Dimik@ool-182e2df5.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[5:11] * djhworld (~djhworld@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:13] * Tenacious-Techhu (6c14db73@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[5:15] * davr0s (~textual@host81-155-67-179.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[5:20] * lif (uid24110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mcnfrundijiyzhvm) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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[5:26] * ophuk (~shade3432@ Quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com)
[5:29] * feksclaus (~feksclaus@80-71-131-204.u.parknet.dk) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
[5:34] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:35] * |Syd| (~|Syd|@unaffiliated/syd/x-5474327) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:40] * drewmcmillan (~drewmcmil@cpc77022-warw18-2-0-cust494.3-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[5:51] * wgas (~wgas@unaffiliated/wgas) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[5:59] * |Syd| (~|Syd|@unaffiliated/syd/x-5474327) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[6:11] * davr0s (~textual@host81-155-67-179.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:12] * fredp (~fredp@unaffiliated/fredp) Quit ()
[6:12] <mastershake> any1 avail?
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[6:18] <tnewman> i'm pretty retarded
[6:18] <tnewman> but im' here
[6:20] * p71 (~chatzilla@71-90-117-89.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[6:33] <mastershake> ok cool
[6:33] * p71 (~chatzilla@71-90-117-89.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:33] <mastershake> basically im just trying to flash the pi-3 img onto my microSD
[6:33] * JudeauChop (~JudeauCho@2601:282:8300:18fe:d894:9a63:d270:e049) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:33] <mastershake> but am doing so from win7-x32
[6:33] <mastershake> which doesnt even know what ext is
[6:35] <tnewman> ext4 is a filesystem
[6:36] <tnewman> not usually mountable by windows (at least natively)
[6:36] * trumee (~trumee@c-73-183-219-14.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:36] <tnewman> i typically use Linux to write raspbian to an sd card using dd
[6:36] <tnewman> there is a thing for windows called rufus that might work
[6:37] * rorro (~rorro@h-170-152-58.A163.priv.bahnhof.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[6:37] <mastershake> okay let me try this again
[6:37] <tnewman> and the <whatevertheraspbianimagenameis>.img file actually contains two partitions
[6:38] <mastershake> ohhhhhhhhh
[6:38] <mastershake> did not knbow that
[6:39] <mastershake> so i just extracted the imgs from the tar compress twice to get the .img
[6:39] <mastershake> with 7zi[p
[6:39] <tnewman> yeah no dont do that
[6:39] <tnewman> write the .img file directly to the sd card
[6:39] <tnewman> when you're done the card will have the two partitions it needs
[6:40] <tnewman> also, on first boot of the sd card (the first time you put it in the pi and turn it on), the / partition (the second partition) will get resized to fill the remaining space in the sd card
[6:41] <rpdom> The recommended program for writing the image to the card is currently Etcher (for Windows/ Mac or Linux). It works from the zipped image file.
[6:42] <tnewman> do what rpdom says
[6:44] <rpdom> https://etcher.io is where to get it
[6:44] <tnewman> yeah use that
[6:44] <tnewman> looks very idiot proof
[6:45] <tnewman> (which is to say, the opposite of dd)
[6:45] * p71 (~chatzilla@71-90-117-89.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:47] <mastershake> so wouldnt I have 2 extract that .img out of the final .tar ]=
[6:47] <mastershake> sry lol
[6:47] * sdothum (~znc@ Quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in)
[6:47] <mastershake> okok
[6:47] <tnewman> does not appear to be required
[6:47] <mastershake> im gonna go with etcher
[6:48] <tnewman> godspeed
[6:48] <rpdom> The standard images don't have tar files in them. Are you using some other downloads?
[6:48] <tnewman> that caught my eye too
[6:49] * genericuser123 (~enter@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:49] <tnewman> think they're both zips right?
[6:50] <mastershake> not as far as i knew.... but was beginning to wonder...
[6:50] <rpdom> The Raspbian images are just zips or the raw image. NOOBS is a zip containing files, some of which may be tar.
[6:52] <rpdom> Sorry, *of* the raw image, not "or"
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[8:15] <MrNaz> ok so all the instructions on the web tell you how to put an IMG file onto an sd card, but the web site now provides ISO files, and the same instructions don't seem to work, and rufus doesn't seem to burn the ISO files correctly to the cards
[8:16] <MrNaz> Why did the raspbian devs start distributing IMG files all of a sudden?
[8:16] <MrNaz> and if they wanted to, why didn't the update the documentation and provide a tool that burns them properly?
[8:16] * t0aster0ven (~iaeofjgsk@gateway/tor-sasl/iaeofjgskjb) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[8:18] <rpdom> MrNaz: Are you looking at the RaspberryPi Desktop for PCs? The Raspbian downloads are still zipped .img files
[8:19] <MrNaz> https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspberry-pi-desktop/
[8:19] <rpdom> Yes, that's the version for running on a PC.
[8:19] <rpdom> https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspbian/
[8:19] <rpdom> That's the Pi version
[8:19] <MrNaz> gah
[8:19] * TheL0singEdge (~TheL0sing@unaffiliated/thel0singedge) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[8:20] <MrNaz> those links are misleading
[8:20] <MrNaz> because there is a raspian with desktop manager, and a raspbian cli only
[8:20] * Hitechcg (~Hitechcg@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:20] * MrNaz mumbles a bit and tries to blame someone else for his failure to read properly
[8:21] <rpdom> Yes. They are both under the Raspbian link. The PC version has a big heading "Raspberry Pi Desktop (for PC and Mac)" and a description.
[8:21] * mossman93 (~mossman93@unaffiliated/mossman93) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[8:21] <rpdom> heh :-)
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[8:22] <tnewman> how many times do you field that question a day here
[8:22] <tnewman> how2sdcard
[8:24] <rpdom> Me? I don't really. Up to recently I've stayed away from this IRC channel. I'v just used the forums.
[8:24] <MrNaz> the sd card instructions are clear
[8:25] <MrNaz> (at least, it is to people who can read big bold heading text)
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[8:37] <tnewman> forest for the trees thing
[8:38] <tnewman> i didnt mean that as a knock MrNaz <3
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[8:38] <tnewman> not gonna lie, that etcher thing is pretty slick
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[10:42] <akar> /san/sani
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[12:33] <woenx> Hi
[12:33] <woenx> if I want to collect data from a series of Internet of things devices (temperature, energy consumption, all that stuff), how would you store it?
[12:34] <mlelstv> depends on how you want to retrieve it
[12:34] <woenx> I want to graph it
[12:35] <woenx> and display those graphs in a website (stored locally)
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[12:35] <woenx> ok, the thing is, i've been capturing data for some time now, and saving it in the form of CSV files and using gnuplot to graph them
[12:36] <woenx> but scheduling graphs every 5 minutes is not the most elegant solution, and the more graphs, the more cpu consumption (when most of the time they won't be seen by anybody
[12:36] <woenx> So I decided to try influxdb + grafana
[12:36] <mlelstv> the alternative is to compute graphs on demand. But that scales with the number of viewers.
[12:37] <woenx> grafana is great, I can create interactive graphs (not as customizable as gnuplot, but good enough) and embed them in a web page
[12:37] <woenx> but influxdb... it uses 100% of my cpu
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[12:37] <woenx> and I'm trying to find another solution
[12:37] <woenx> (grafana cannot read csv files)
[12:38] <woenx> So i'm explorin other ways to store my iot data
[12:38] <mlelstv> the classic thing is rrdtool
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[12:38] * BurtyB would (and does) use rrd
[12:39] <woenx> is it a database, a graphing tool, or both?
[12:39] <mlelstv> both
[12:40] <red9> woenx, make the graph on demand. Cache.
[12:40] <red9> Make the client do the work (javascript/java)
[12:40] <woenx> aha
[12:41] <woenx> I'll check
[12:42] <mlelstv> https://github.com/oetiker/RrdGraphJS
[12:42] <mlelstv> a javascript frontend that uses d3.js for rendering in the browser
[12:44] <BurtyB> there's also stuff for rrd out there for highcharts and prob many others as normally happens on the interwebs :)
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[12:46] <BurtyB> once you get your head around rrdgraph it's simple to pick data from multiple rrd files to stack, graph together from multiple rrd files or split +/- on an rrd into different graphs etc. (I might be slightly addicted)
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[12:50] <woenx> aha
[12:50] <woenx> and how is the data stored?
[12:50] <woenx> is there like a central database with tables and all that, or independent text files?
[12:51] <mlelstv> it's independent binary files
[12:51] <mlelstv> called RRD (round robin database)
[12:51] <mlelstv> it's a ring buffer that can store data in different resolutions
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[12:52] <woenx> aha...
[12:52] <woenx> and how do you "read" those files?+
[12:52] <woenx> you need like a rrd client?
[12:52] <mlelstv> yes
[12:53] <mlelstv> exists standalone (rrdtool fetch) or as various libraries.
[12:53] <woenx> I see
[12:53] <woenx> I'll give it a go
[12:54] <BurtyB> one thing to be aware of tho is the files aren't portable so you can't create on arm and read on x86
[12:54] <woenx> oh
[12:54] <woenx> and what does it mean that the databases are fixed size?
[12:55] <mlelstv> the databases are also fixed size.
[12:55] <woenx> so you have to specify the number of elements in it?
[12:55] <woenx> like how many registers they can hold?
[12:56] <mlelstv> i.e. you can create one that holds a day or week or year of data, and then it will overwrite the beginning. "round robin".
[12:56] <woenx> oh
[12:56] <woenx> but I already have more than a year of data, and I don't know how big it can get
[12:57] <woenx> I still think plain text files are the ultimate data storage option, xD
[12:57] <mlelstv> the most common usage is to store data in full resolution for a short period, and reduced resolutions for longer periods.
[12:57] <mlelstv> it's no problem to create a database for 100 years.
[12:57] <woenx> human readable, easy to search, standard, compatible among operating systems, etc.
[12:57] <mlelstv> you tell it how many data points it should maintain for that time.
[12:57] <woenx> aha
[12:58] <BurtyB> you can always export rrd files to xml if you want text ;)
[12:59] <woenx> aha
[12:59] <mlelstv> it's also no problem to have multiple such databases. So you could create one per year.
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[13:02] <woenx> I don't know... i'm not convinced. and those graphs look exactly like the ones from gnuplot...
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[13:03] <mlelstv> not exactly
[13:03] <mlelstv> gnuplot can do more
[13:04] <mlelstv> http://zoomq.qiniudn.com/ZQScrapBook/ZqFLOSS/data/20070516222937/
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[13:15] <woenx> I've seen graphana supports json datasources
[13:15] <woenx> I could convert the csv file to json and use it as the source
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[13:17] <woenx> not the most "elegant" solution, but probably the one requiring less resources
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[13:43] <xochi_> hi, did anybody encounter the issue that a cross-compiled kernel for the Pi 1 B is working correctly but the dts/overlay files are not? That means deploying kernel and modules would be safe, but copying dtb files would brick the pi? (when following the instructions on https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/linux/kernel/building.md)
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[14:29] <woenx> anyone has some experience with plotly?
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[14:51] <ceda> hi .. why does RPi.GPIO need a pull up or pull down while the gpiozero does not?
[14:52] <ceda> I am talking about taking inputs.
[14:52] <gordonDrogon> it's just different ways to access the hardware. I'm sure gpiozero has a method to set the pull up/down if you need it.
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[14:53] <rbasak> gpiozero typically abstracts away the need to deal with pullup/pulldown. Just use a Button, and it knows what to do.
[14:54] <rbasak> But Button does take a pull_up keyword argument if you have odd button hardware.
[14:55] <gordonDrogon> connecting a button from input pin to 0v is normal for some people, so pull_up is required there.
[14:55] <gordonDrogon> but I guess it has pull_down too, for those who connect button to 3.3v.
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[14:58] <ceda> thanks
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[15:18] <jklaus> hey guys
[15:18] <jklaus> I'm in the planning stages of an IoT greenhouse
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[15:19] <jklaus> I'm trying to decide how I want to achieve things..
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[15:19] <jklaus> It seems like my best option is to just write daemons to handle collecting data from my GPIO pins
[15:20] <gordonDrogon> what language?
[15:20] <jklaus> I'll probably go with .Net Core just b/c I'm familiar with it
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[15:21] <jklaus> gordonDrogon: though I should really accept that Python is becoming an industrial language..
[15:21] <jklaus> though I still hate it for some reason
[15:21] <gordonDrogon> I do everything in C and BASIC. I'm not a python programmer.
[15:22] <gordonDrogon> I do not accept python for anything whatsoever
[15:22] <jklaus> haha
[15:22] <jklaus> I'm just too efficient in C# at this point..
[15:23] <red9> Summoning the daemons into GPIO seems like a bad move ;-)
[15:23] <jklaus> red9: why do you say that?
[15:24] <red9> just kidding with you ;)
[15:24] <jklaus> I haven't investigated how the libraries achieve their interaction but I've found a couple for .net core
[15:24] <red9> Though, I would personally avoid any .Net stuff.
[15:24] <gordonDrogon> fwiw: you can control a greenhouse with a few simple shell scripts and cron, however where's the fun in that...
[15:24] <red9> Script languages have their applications but they have some serious drawbacks.
[15:25] <jklaus> I'm no script kitty..
[15:25] <gordonDrogon> shell scripts != "script kitty".
[15:25] <gordonDrogon> Bash is a valid programming language in its own right.
[15:25] <jklaus> false
[15:25] <red9> You could say implement I2C bitbang for your sensors with WiredPi and C. But the same might not work out for Perl or Python etc.
[15:25] <jklaus> Some have that opinion, yes
[15:26] <gordonDrogon> wiringPi does not bit-bang I2C.
[15:26] <red9> I did not say that.
[15:27] <gordonDrogon> I do know someone who bit-banged I2C in BASIC on the Pi though.
[15:27] <gordonDrogon> (using wiringPi)
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[15:27] <red9> You can implement I2C using WiredPi calls. It's fast enough to do it. But it doesn't have to be done that way if WiredPi have specific functions for this.
[15:27] <gordonDrogon> are you talking about wiringPi?
[15:27] <red9> probably.
[15:27] <gordonDrogon> (ie. if not, then what's WiredPi ?)
[15:28] <red9> checked, WiringPi is it.
[15:28] <gordonDrogon> wiringPi is a C library for C/C++ and BASIC programs - it's been ported to most other languages though. RPi.GPIO and gpiozero are Python centric libraries.
[15:28] <gordonDrogon> and pigpio is an alternative (it's used by gpiozero)
[15:29] <jklaus> I'm just not sure what architecture to use for this though.
[15:29] <red9> jklaus, What hardware protocol do your sensors and actuators need?
[15:29] <jklaus> Part of me wants to push this data up to google cloud platform to gain some experience with that
[15:29] <red9> google = NSA
[15:30] <jklaus> red9: no protocol, analog voltage
[15:30] <jklaus> red9: this is greenhouse data, I couldn't care less who sees it.
[15:30] <red9> The RPi have no A/D..
[15:30] <gordonDrogon> there are 1000's of ADCs for the Pi.
[15:30] <gordonDrogon> and a good deal of them can be read from the command-line.
[15:31] <red9> sure, but to implement anything. There has to be a decision as to which A/D to go for. Bits, Samplingspeed, Precision etc.
[15:31] <gordonDrogon> it's a greenhouse..
[15:31] <jklaus> lol
[15:31] <gordonDrogon> temperature +/- 1�C every few seconds is overkill..
[15:31] <red9> A few ADC0804 probably does the job.
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[15:32] <gordonDrogon> 1-wire for temperature to make life easy.
[15:32] <jklaus> Depending how I architect the actual data collection I could use a multiplexer to change which inputs I'm reading
[15:32] <red9> There is no overkill etc. Only requirements. Until those are specified all is assumptions that can break.
[15:32] <Lartza> Maybe jklaus is growing orchids :P
[15:33] <jklaus> This is going to be an aquaponics greenhouse
[15:33] * stiv used some 1-wire sensors in a greenhouse. easy peasy.
[15:33] <red9> "very profitable plants" (tm) :p
[15:33] <jklaus> Initially I'll just be recording air, and water temps.
[15:34] <jklaus> I eventually plan to make solar water heaters and control the flow of water through said heaters
[15:34] <jklaus> I'll also be monitoring lighting levels
[15:34] <jklaus> and controlling grow lights, eventually
[15:34] <red9> Have a look at 1-wire probes.
[15:34] <gordonDrogon> nothing that's not already been done on a Pi, so you know it's all possible.
[15:35] <jklaus> yeah
[15:35] <jklaus> all very simple stuff from a hardware perspective
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[15:35] <red9> 1-wire probes. WiringPi with some scripting language. Done.
[15:35] <jklaus> But I need to decide how I want to collect the data as that will impact how I write the service(s)
[15:36] <red9> PostgreSQL and access it with some scripting language module?
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[15:37] <jklaus> sorry I meant to say I need to decide how I want to connect to the devices, when collecting the data
[15:37] * stiv is fond of mongodb for such things
[15:37] <Lartza> I've always heard terrible things about mongodb but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[15:37] <jklaus> I think implementing a multiplexer is probably the best route
[15:37] <red9> Heard the same as Lartza.
[15:37] <jklaus> that way I'll only need to take up a couple IO pins
[15:38] <red9> jklaus, "when collecting the data", do you mean the GPIO side of things or the software (via Ethernet etc) ?
[15:39] <jklaus> GPIO
[15:39] <jklaus> I'm thinking.. PI -> ADC -> Multiplexer -> Inputs
[15:39] * BurtyB pets his 879GB of mongodb :)
[15:39] <red9> 1-wire chip <--3-wire--> GPIO 26-pin. Done.
[15:40] <jklaus> red9: I may eventually need more than 26 pins though
[15:40] <red9> Those 1-wire temperature sensors have all builtin. Only need to apply power.
[15:40] <jklaus> I don't know how much crap I may do with this one day lol
[15:40] <stiv> 1-wire is a serial bus. you can daisy-chain sensors
[15:41] <red9> 1-wire#1 <--> 1-wire#2 <--> 1-wire#3 <----> RPi
[15:41] <red9> And that is parallell wired. All sensors have their unique (64-bit?) address. The probes have their own A/D.
[15:42] <jklaus> can you send me a link to the probes you're considering?
[15:42] <jklaus> I was looking at the $2 analog probes out there
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[15:42] <red9> google "1-wire" "temperature"
[15:42] <gordonDrogon> just google ds18b20
[15:43] <red9> otherwise digikey/mouser most likely have them.
[15:43] <gordonDrogon> get the waterproof ones with 1-2 metres of cable already connected. you can get them in packs of 10 cheaply enough.
[15:43] <gordonDrogon> I've used many - mostly on ATmegas, but also no Pi's.
[15:44] <gordonDrogon> there's a handy gpio command to read them too. (you know, in a script, to make life easy rather than write a million lines of c# first)
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[15:45] <jklaus> hmm
[15:45] <jklaus> How do you daisy chain these sensors?
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[15:46] <gordonDrogon> they typically have 3 wires (despite being called 1-wire)
[15:46] <gordonDrogon> you just connect them one after the other.
[15:46] <gordonDrogon> or you can "star" wire them from the cpu.
[15:46] <jklaus> How is the data read from them in that manner though
[15:46] <gordonDrogon> you need a 4k7 pull-up resistor when wiring many of them though.
[15:46] <red9> Avoid the star bus. Propagation issues can mess that seriously up otherwise.
[15:47] <gordonDrogon> it's a 1-wire comms bus - you send a blip if bits down it and read a blip of bits back.
[15:47] <gordonDrogon> there is a protocol, but really, let the linux kernel do that for you. the timing is in the order of 6�S per bit.
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[15:48] <jklaus> I'm just curious how it works though
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[15:48] <red9> 6 seconds seems like slow clock :p
[15:48] <jklaus> seems like those devices are both TX and RX?
[15:48] <gordonDrogon> red9, �S is microseconds.
[15:48] <gordonDrogon> yes, tx & rx in the same wire.
[15:48] <jklaus> they wait to get a request for their ID, then they push data back
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[15:49] <gordonDrogon> more or less, yes.
[15:49] <jklaus> cool
[15:49] <gordonDrogon> linux has a 1-wire filing system.
[15:49] <red9> S as a unit is Siemens, electrical conductance for me ;)
[15:50] <gordonDrogon> you get what looks like a directory full of files, each file is a device. you just read the file to get the device data, etc.
[15:50] <jklaus> would anyone trust this source for materials?
[15:50] <jklaus> https://www.gearbest.com/sensors/pp_235677.html?currency=USD&vip=760163&gclid=CjwKCAiAjuPRBRBxEiwAeQ2QPro6aPFe_9bQA9RBNsd4YZtC9AzBZtz6a_WQ42ydzBS15kfIVk76ThoCklUQAvD_BwE
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[15:50] <gordonDrogon> jklaus, that's the ones.
[15:51] <jklaus> gordonDrogon: do you think its the same manufacturing quality you'd get from mouser?
[15:51] <gordonDrogon> there are many online resources to connect them up to a Pi.
[15:51] <jklaus> The price is quite a bit cheaper
[15:51] <gordonDrogon> it's highly likely to be made in the same production line - each device has a unique serial ID, so someone somewhere has to assign them.
[15:52] <red9> Tip; you can calibrate by mixing ice cubes with water. It reaches 0 Celsius.
[15:52] <jklaus> If I'm going this route I should probably go digital for everything then
[15:52] <jklaus> though I already have a slew of light dependent resistors
[15:53] <jklaus> red9: yeah that's how we calibrated our analog probes in college
[15:53] <red9> I'll suspect there's analog_input->A/D->1-wire chips?
[15:53] <iEv0lv3__> *"script kiddy" aka "skid". And if you know how to write your own scripts, and not only rely on others scripts without knowing what it does, then you aren't a skid. Bash scripting isn't "skid" either. It's a step in the right direction.
[15:53] <gordonDrogon> spot of lunch time. back laters.
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[16:44] <cbm> hi
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[17:14] <bobstro> A bootable SD card has 4M of space allocated outside of the /boot and / partitions, correct? Is that the VideoCore OS?
[17:15] <bobstro> (8192 X 512 B blocks)
[17:15] <shiftplusone> 1) Not necessarily. 2) No.
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[17:16] <bobstro> I’ve tried creating images without that block and they didn’t work. Is it necessary to boot the RPi?
[17:16] <shiftplusone> Not at all.
[17:16] <shiftplusone> Only if you want to run riscos
[17:16] <bobstro> I’ve read that the 1st stage bootloader is “in ROM”, but other material indicates that this is why an SD card is necessary.
[17:17] <shiftplusone> you're conflating multiple things
[17:17] <bobstro> Trying to establish why that 4M is necessary and what the heck to call it.
[17:17] <shiftplusone> There is bootrom, which is on the chip itself, not on the sd card. That bootrom is what loads bootcode.bin off the sd card, which loads start.elf and so on.
[17:18] <shiftplusone> The 4M alignment for the first partition is not necessary at all
[17:19] <bobstro> Interesting. So I should be able to overwrite that 4M without effect? It’s essentially dead space?
[17:19] <leftyfb> bobstro: The 4MB unallocated partition is left-over space due to misalignment of the partitions. It's not needed
[17:19] <shiftplusone> as long as you don't overwrite the partition table
[17:19] <leftyfb> bobstro: what are you going to do with 4M?
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[17:20] <bobstro> So… What is necessary on the SD card that requires it to be present to boot from USB? Just the 2nd stage files in /boot?
[17:20] <shiftplusone> bootcode.bin, start.elf, kernel.img, as a minimum
[17:20] <bobstro> leftyfb: not worried about the space. Just working up a procedure for copying a smaller card to larger and vice-versa.
[17:21] <leftyfb> bobstro: use dd to image one card to the other, then boot the larger and run raspi-config to resize the partition
[17:21] <shiftplusone> leftyfb: and on to a smaller card... ?
[17:21] <bobstro> shiftplusone: so those must be in /boot on the card?
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[17:22] <shiftplusone> bobstro: not in a directory named /boot, but on the boot partition.
[17:22] <shiftplusone> (which, on a running system is usually mounted on /boot)
[17:22] <Lartza> on the first partition, which doesn't even need to be marked bootable afaik
[17:22] <Lartza> needs to be fat though
[17:22] <bobstro> That makes sense (been reading http://wiki.beyondlogic.org/index.php?title=Understanding_RaspberryPi_Boot_Process) … yes the partition mounted as /boot. And must be VFAT. OK.
[17:22] <shiftplusone> yup
[17:23] <bobstro> leftyfb: i’ve got it working for card-card copy without the need to make an image the size of the original card, just making sure I don’t miss anything. Much faster than image-image.
[17:23] <leftyfb> http://www.aoakley.com/articles/2015-10-09-resizing-sd-images.php
[17:23] <leftyfb> to go from larger to smaller
[17:23] <leftyfb> I've used this several times
[17:23] <shiftplusone> I think bobstro's approach is the better one.
[17:23] <shiftplusone> keep in mind there's an sd card cloner already available in raspbian.
[17:24] <shiftplusone> Although it copies files off the running system which is... questionable.
[17:24] <bobstro> Thanks. I’ve done the image copy & resizing. It’s just wasteful of disk space and time if most of card is empty. I’ve successfully done the card-card copy before.
[17:24] <Lartza> shiftplusone, That works just fine for any machine
[17:25] <bobstro> I’ve had luck with doing offline copy of files from card-to-card, but it also works “reasonably” well if booting in single user mode to copy the running card. Still refinind that process.
[17:28] <r3> after using 'dd' for years, I tried 'ddrescue' and will never go back
[17:31] <bobstro> What I’m working on is having copies of the filesystem on disk (not an image) and modifying config files before writing them, being able to create copies to any size card in one step. If I make a dozen cards, I don’t want them all to boot as “raspberrypi.local” then have to log into and modify each one.
[17:32] * dreamon_ is now known as dreamon
[17:33] <leftyfb> bobstro: https://github.com/aoakley/cotswoldjam
[17:33] <leftyfb> you really should look at those utils
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[17:33] <r3> bobstro: also sounds like you like be able to utilize 'losetup'
[17:34] <bobstro> So… in theory at least… if I burn a raspbian image that has the 4M dead space at start of card, and just duplicate conents of each partition to a new card without the 4M space, it should work?
[17:34] <r3> (which would allow you to mount an image as a filesystem)
[17:34] <bobstro> r3: I tried that! Gets much of the way there, thanks. Just hoping to get away from big honkin’ images.
[17:35] <leftyfb> bobstro: yes, the 4M unallocated space is an annoying side-effect of partition alignment
[17:35] <bobstro> leftyfb: OK, thanks. I must have flubbed something. I’ve read and re-read the boot process info and thought I was going nuts.
[17:35] <shiftplusone> bobstro: as long as the partition table is correct... your first partition wouldn't start on the first block
[17:36] <shiftplusone> first sector rather
[17:38] <bobstro> I’ve got fdisk scripted to create a 100M VFAT for /boot and the rest as EXT4 for /. I’m hoping to let fdisk worry about positioning the partitions.
[17:39] <bobstro> r3: losetup is “plan b” - squirt in a script to do the configuration on first boot.
[17:39] <bobstro> fdisk “mostly” scripted anyhow. It likes to change things on me.
[17:40] <bobstro> leftyfb: thanks for costwold link.
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[17:40] * BurtyB uses command line options on parted to create fat/ext2 images
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[17:41] <bobstro> ah, sounds like a better plan.
[17:44] <BurtyB> bobstro, about 50 lines into https://github.com/burtyb/clusterhat-image/blob/master/build/usbboot.sh is what I use
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[17:46] <bobstro> BurtyB: Line 55 bingo. Very nice.
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[18:29] <thomas_25> what's the development cycle for raspberry pi (zero esp.)? surely not via SD.? the RP website is mostly geared towards RP users as a computer user and not developer I think?
[18:29] <thomas_25> am I looking at the wrong places?
[18:30] <thomas_25> I'm planning to build some MIDI and Audio generating applications -- though not sure about RP because it supports a non realtime kernel officially I think? so I'm evalating my options, maybe a barebone solution like Arduino is better. Any opinions?
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[18:31] <kerio> i hope y'all are blkdiscarding your sd cards properly
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[18:32] <thomas_25> and about that, i've seen more than a few people complaining about SD wear. isn't raspberrian has a fs that helps with that?
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[18:33] <gordonDrogon> thomas_25, what do you mean by development cycle?
[18:33] <thomas_25> gordonDrogon build, deploy, test, go back to build
[18:33] <gordonDrogon> thomas_25, I do that directly on a Pi.
[18:34] <gordonDrogon> for Pi related projects, anyway.
[18:34] <thomas_25> I see
[18:34] <thomas_25> that feels very weird for me as i've never did that
[18:34] <gordonDrogon> the design intention of the Pi was that it could support stand-alone program development - unlike e.g. Arduino
[18:34] <thomas_25> i've always cross compiled and deployed on barebone electronics before
[18:34] <gordonDrogon> thomas_25, it's very natural for me as I've been doing it for 40 years on unix systems and their like.
[18:34] <thomas_25> yes, it could support that, but why would I want that?
[18:35] <gordonDrogon> the Pi isn't barebones - it's a computer running Linux.
[18:35] <thomas_25> I have my desktop that can run eclipse much more efficiently?
[18:35] <thomas_25> yeah, that's the main reason why i hesitate jumping on the vagon -- linux :)
[18:35] <gordonDrogon> you do what you want to do - you asked what the development cycle was - for me, I develop on the Pi, it's a computer, I use it.
[18:36] <gordonDrogon> you're hesitating to using an OS that's 25 years old?
[18:36] <thomas_25> so, for zero, there are not many chances then
[18:36] <gordonDrogon> with roots in Unix, 45 years old?
[18:36] <BurtyB> chances for what?
[18:36] <thomas_25> deploy the app?
[18:36] <gordonDrogon> my programs for hte Pi run on the Pi.
[18:37] <thomas_25> if it was the normal pi, i could use ethernet for deployment
[18:37] <thomas_25> even gdb debugging over eth
[18:37] <gordonDrogon> you're bleating about stuff that's different. just do it your way and be happy.
[18:37] <BurtyB> so use wifi or otg ethernet via the usb port (assuming you don't have anything else usb)
[18:37] <gordonDrogon> we don't care.
[18:37] <BurtyB> or usb ethernet .. we all love a bit of usb ethernet
[18:38] <thomas_25> ok
[18:38] <gordonDrogon> it's just a computer.
[18:38] <thomas_25> so RP doesn't support development on a differnt host?
[18:38] <thomas_25> by support, i mean, the go to method
[18:38] * tunekey (~tunekey@unaffiliated/tunekey) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[18:38] <thomas_25> the RP way is to develop on the RP?
[18:38] <gordonDrogon> the "go to" method for writing programs under Linux is to use Linux - almost always on the system your running your code on.
[18:39] <gordonDrogon> I have seen others cross compile and use remote tools, but that's not my way.
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[18:39] <gordonDrogon> mostly because it's not needed.
[18:40] <thomas_25> BurtyB, or maybe I'll use a normal RP for development over eth... and then deploy on the zero.
[18:40] <thomas_25> that'd be easier i suppose
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[18:41] <gordonDrogon> I think you might want to learn more about Linux. "Deploy" for me is typing ./program - even if I compiled that program on another Pi.
[18:41] <thomas_25> it's very likely that i was coding linux device drivers when you were in middle school :)
[18:41] <gordonDrogon> I have some projects that run under x86 and ARM - for those cases, it's just a matter of typing 'make' on each platform...
[18:41] <thomas_25> so please enough with the typical IRC douchebaggaery
[18:42] * gordonDrogon ponders.
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[18:42] <gordonDrogon> I don't live in a country that has a middle school.
[18:42] <gordonDrogon> so get global.
[18:42] <thomas_25> you should get global
[18:42] <gordonDrogon> and you missed the bit about me using unix 40 years ago too.
[18:42] <thomas_25> :)
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[18:44] * h4ndy is now known as H4ndy
[18:44] <thomas_25> so from what I understand RP is more like a computer, which you get, and install a distro of your choice, maybe as a set-top-box solution etc and go with it.
[18:44] <thomas_25> where as arduino is more geared for developers?
[18:44] <shiftplusone> If you want to develop for an arduino
[18:45] <pwillard> one is a microcontroller... one is a computer
[18:46] <pwillard> You can program an arduino using a RPI... the reverse is a whole lot more difficult
[18:46] <shiftplusone> Yeah... would you say a normal PC is not geared for developers because there's no one true way to do... whatever you want to do?
[18:46] <thomas_25> ok, i just can't seem to get my point accross
[18:46] <thomas_25> normally, what i do is, i use an IDE (Eclipse) for cross compiling like a moderate project (say 100 files).
[18:46] <shiftplusone> there's also Windows IoT for the pi, which works the way you seem to expect it to
[18:46] <gordonDrogon> you asked a qustion. Seems you don't like some answers.
[18:46] <thomas_25> download/debug over JTAG
[18:46] <thomas_25> and be happy with it
[18:47] <thomas_25> with Arduino -- there's this crappy minimal IDE
[18:47] <gordonDrogon> think out of the box.
[18:47] <shiftplusone> thomas_25: you can do that if you want
[18:47] <thomas_25> with RP... there is nothing of that sorts? and we have to figure our way
[18:47] <thomas_25> ?
[18:47] <pwillard> only if you choose to use it
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[18:47] <shiftplusone> with the pi you can do whatever you want... you're the first person I've seen that wants to do things the way you do.
[18:47] <gordonDrogon> normally what I do is I use an editor (vim) and compile directly for a moderate project (say 100 files) directly on the Pi using 'make'.
[18:48] <shiftplusone> you can run gdbserver on the pi
[18:48] <pwillard> If you want to use eclipse to program the arduino... there are guides that explain what you need to do to accomplish it.
[18:48] <shiftplusone> You can crosscompile
[18:48] <shiftplusone> You can do bare metal and jtag
[18:48] <shiftplusone> whatever floats your boat
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[18:48] <thomas_25> yes, of course, but i want to understand the ecosystem -- if i'm going against the current (which seems liek i am)
[18:48] <akk> In the Programming menu on RPi there are various IDEs, and there are others you can install through the package manager.
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[18:49] <thomas_25> i'll try my best to adopt the platforms best practices -- trying to understand it right now
[18:49] <shiftplusone> thomas_25: it depends on what you're doing. What are you interested in developing?
[18:49] <thomas_25> MIDI and Audio app
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[18:49] <gordonDrogon> thomas_25, you've written Linux device drivers, so you should be fully aware of the Linux development system. The Pi is just another Linux system.
[18:49] <shiftplusone> ^
[18:49] <thomas_25> hence my concern about linux kernel
[18:50] <thomas_25> is the scheduler good enough that it respects my processes priority?
[18:50] <thomas_25> with barebones, i can make sure of that
[18:50] <pwillard> Taking into account its the size of a credit card... it might not behave exactly like your desktop
[18:50] * Hitechcg (~Hitechcg@ Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[18:50] <pwillard> but it runs linux... nuff said
[18:50] <thomas_25> i don't want it be to behave like a desktop at all!
[18:51] <shiftplusone> are you just after a microcontroller?
[18:51] <thomas_25> i feel that'd be better but RP's horsepower is very tempting
[18:51] <akk> Personally I don't have a desktop on mine, I ssh into it.
[18:51] <thomas_25> 1ghz
[18:51] <akk> And use scp to copy programs.
[18:51] <akk> If you want to drag and drop, you could use sshfs and pretend the pi is a filesystem.
[18:52] <thomas_25> shiftplusone and imagine if you want to do sampling -- it'd be next to impossible with a MCU... RP has memory for that
[18:52] <akk> Or of course samba or nfs or some other distributed filesystem.
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[18:52] <gordonDrogon> thomas_25, I hear the banana Pi is better for that sort of stuff. Go ask in their forums about it ...
[18:52] <shiftplusone> thomas_25: but then you run into limitations of linux if you want hard realtime. Maybe take a look at ultibo for the pi.
[18:53] <thomas_25> shiftplusone i've seen some blogs about patching the raspberrian kernel for realtime compliance
[18:53] <thomas_25> heard about those?
[18:53] <pwillard> http://beagleboard.org/pocket
[18:53] <shiftplusone> thomas_25: yeah, there are some patches floating around, but aiui, they only improve latency rather than make it a hard realtime system.
[18:54] <thomas_25> i wonder why nobody has ever written a realtime co operative scheduler for RP
[18:54] <thomas_25> like the user space app yields to the kernel
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[18:55] <shiftplusone> oh... actually...
[18:55] <shiftplusone> there's riscos... if you're that way inclined.
[18:55] <thomas_25> it'd be very dangerous of course, but i find it "critical"
[18:56] <shiftplusone> anyway... not sure I have any real suggestions here. A lot of it comes down to preference and I think you have enough information which choice would work for you, if any.
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[19:01] <thomas_25> a barebone solution seems more familiar and "right" to me... just the bang for money, foss ecosystem that i could utulize of RP platform tempts me...
[19:01] <thomas_25> only thing that is not certain is that if raspberian os is suitable for audio stuff
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[19:02] <shiftplusone> give it a go, trying to work around limitations is half of the fun
[19:02] <akk> Sure, they can do audio, though Pi Zeroes require an external audio adapter.
[19:03] <thomas_25> shiftplusone true!
[19:03] <thomas_25> akk, yeah i think a filter on a PWM pin is enough
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[19:03] <thomas_25> which i can do on a breadboard i hope
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[19:05] <akk> thomas_25: You can do that, but if you want good audio quality the filter getss less simple.
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[19:05] <akk> I'd recommend buying a hat or a USB audio device.
[19:05] <thomas_25> yes, of course, and i can't wait to learn about that :)
[19:05] <Apocx> My outdoor RPI project finally succumbed to the dreaded SDcard corruption... :(
[19:05] <Apocx> I'll have to try a readonly FS next time and see if it lasts any longer
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[19:06] <thomas_25> what fs does raspberian use?
[19:07] <bobstro> Apocx: what brand card and how long did it last? And how “outdoor” was it?
[19:07] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[19:07] <Apocx> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010Q57T02
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[19:07] <Apocx> Couple months. In a shed
[19:08] <Apocx> so mainly temperature and the like
[19:08] <shiftplusone> thomas_25: vfat for the firmware and whatever you want for the rest of it. By default, fat32 and ext4
[19:08] <thomas_25> why not a wear handling fs?
[19:09] <BurtyB> your SD card is most likely already doing it
[19:10] <thomas_25> i've read that only some of them (pricier) do it
[19:10] <shiftplusone> wear hasn't been a practical concern for me personally.
[19:10] <thomas_25> it was a blog or something, so ffiw
[19:11] <pwillard> and your SDcard is already in Fat32 format... leaving the boot partition even readable and editable on a non-linux system. (sometimes that is handy)
[19:11] <Apocx> I think my failure was a result of power loss but not 100% sure
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[19:11] <thomas_25> Apocx you can do a read write test and see if it can be written and read back
[19:11] <bobstro> Was the card permanently damaged or just corrupted?
[19:12] <Apocx> just corrupted. it would only get so far during boot and fail with errors. forget what they were though
[19:12] <Apocx> I will mess with it more
[19:12] <thomas_25> maybe at the very least, kernel itself and etc should be on a ro partition -- and the user space logging and shit can be on a wear level handling rw fs... even if that fails... not the worst thing
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[19:13] <thomas_25> system would work anyway
[19:13] <Apocx> think the onboard eMMC would survive any better? I'd imagine corruption would be a problem there too with things like power loss.
[19:13] <Apocx> for the Compute Module I mean
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[19:14] <GenteelBen> Evening, my fellow raspists.
[19:14] <GenteelBen> nshire: greetings.
[19:14] <GenteelBen> How's like in Nealshire?
[19:16] * d1z (~gt@unaffiliated/gtt) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:16] <bobstro> GenteelBen: Read that 1st greeting without the ’s’.
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[19:16] <d1z> I haven't been able to write the raspbian img into an sd card and then write it back from the sd card to a file and have checksums agree
[19:17] <d1z> the sdcard I just bought seems to be in great shape
[19:17] <shiftplusone> d1z: because the sd card and the image ar enot the same size?
[19:17] <bobstro> Are you by any chance running an OS that auto-mounts the card?
[19:17] <d1z> good read/write speeds. However I've tried writing the raspbian image file into it twice
[19:17] <bobstro> If it’s mounted, it changes.
[19:18] <bobstro> (got bit by that myself)
[19:18] <d1z> it isn't mounted
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[19:18] <d1z> shiftplusone: I thought that was obvious
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[19:18] <d1z> shiftplusone: shouldn't they agree?
[19:18] <d1z> I mean the checksums
[19:19] <shiftplusone> d1z: if you haven't mounted the card and you only do the checksum up to the image size rather than the whole card, yes.
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[19:22] <iKarith> mental note: If you use network-manager and install a bunch of gnome crap and then decide to uninstall said gnome crap, be careful not to accidentally remove network-manager. :)
[19:23] <iKarith> I still had an open ssh, so fixing it has been fun but not impossible. :P
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[19:45] <pwillard> Things apple and windows fanboys love. "Look, their OS let's them shoot their own feet out from under them!" lol
[19:46] <bobstro> I’ve wiped out those OSen as well. It just takes more planning.
[19:46] * sunn (~sunn@ Quit (Client Quit)
[19:47] <bobstro> Or for WIndows, Microsoft will do it for you with an automatic update.
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[19:50] <pwillard> so true, we decided you need this, so here,
[19:52] <ali1234> what session init does pixel use?
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[20:00] <d1z> I just setup my raspberry pi. I ran a dhcpd (isc) server in my laptop listening on my ethernet address. Turned on the pi and plugged the ethernet cable on both ends, the raspberry got an ip address from the dhcp server succesfully, but I cannot ssh into it
[20:00] <d1z> I get connection refused
[20:00] <bobstro> you created the ssh file on /boot?
[20:00] <bobstro> new install?
[20:00] <d1z> new install
[20:00] <d1z> I just dd'd the image into the sd card and plugged it in
[20:01] <bobstro> to enable ssh, create a file named “ssh” on the /boot partition (can do it from a desktop)
[20:01] <d1z> ...
[20:01] <d1z> so a touch /boot/ssh
[20:01] <bobstro> (assuming raspbian)
[20:01] <d1z> will do?
[20:01] <d1z> yes, it's raspbian from the official site
[20:01] <bobstro> yes, and then reboot. File should disappear after enabled.
[20:02] <d1z> how can I turn it off nicely?
[20:02] <d1z> I can't ssh into it obv
[20:02] * Alina-malina (~Alina-mal@unaffiliated/alina-malina) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:02] <mfa298> raspbian doesnt run ssh by default (and hasnt for over a year), puttin a file called ssh on the boot (fat) partition instructs it to enable ssh on bootup
[20:02] <d1z> where are these instructions?
[20:03] <d1z> and more importantly is there a way of shutting down the pi nicely? a button or idk
[20:03] * pklaus (~pklaus@200116b82016b9003853f9b75dfd04c3.dip.versatel-1u1.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:03] <mfa298> https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/remote-access/ssh/
[20:03] <bobstro> you can create the file by putting the card in a reader and mounting /boot (vfat) on a desktop OS, then creating it.
[20:03] <d1z> I understand
[20:04] <bobstro> ah, well shutdown...
[20:04] <bobstro> no keyboard display handy?
[20:04] <d1z> nope
[20:05] <d1z> it appears I'll have to simply pull the plug out?
[20:05] <d1z> :(
[20:05] <d1z> I don't want to kill it like that...
[20:05] <akk> Yeah, pretty much. But if you're not doing anything on it, it'll probably be okay.
[20:06] <mfa298> depending on which pi model you might be able to get a serial console (if you have a suitable uart deice)
[20:07] <akk> A serial cable is a super useful thing to have handy if you're working with headless pis.
[20:07] * nerdboy (~sarnold@gentoo/developer/nerdboy) Quit (Excess Flood)
[20:07] <d1z> so the boot partition is the vfat partition? /dev/mmcblk0p1 in my case
[20:07] <mfa298> yes
[20:08] <mfa298> of course if you had a suitable serial cable you could just enable ssh using that and not need to shutdown...
[20:08] <akk> A serial cable wouldn't have helped in this case, because serial doesn't work by default.
[20:08] <akk> You have to disable bluetooth and enable serial.
[20:09] <d1z> is there anything else I need to know after writing the /boot/ssh file?
[20:09] <d1z> where is the user and password set? or is there a default one
[20:10] <mfa298> that's why I initially said depending on which model of pi (pi1/pi2/pi0 should just work, pi3/pi0w might have issues)
[20:10] <bobstro> pi/raspberry
[20:10] <bobstro> What model of RPi?
[20:10] <d1z> 3 model b
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[20:12] <iKarith> pwillard: the thing is, if I break something on Linux, I can usually fix it.
[20:12] <pwillard> exactly...
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[20:13] <d1z> user: pi, password: raspberry
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[20:15] * iKarith still waiting for RPi 5 model b with 4GB, USB3, and finally at long last, a RTC. ;)
[20:15] <d1z> should there be any issues in using a different os rather than raspbian? I use archlinux on my laptop, been using it for years, and I know there's archlinuxarm available but I wonder how stable it is
[20:15] <d1z> in comparison to raspbian which seems a more official thing
[20:15] <bobstro> iKarith: Rock64 gets close - no RTC
[20:16] * valeech (~valeech@unaffiliated/valeech) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:17] <bobstro> Lots of arch users on the reddit sub. It sounds like it’s pretty stable.
[20:17] <iKarith> bobstro: neat. I am pretty loyal to RPF and all, but I can appreciate other groups pushing the state of the art a bit
[20:18] <akk> The main disadvantage of other distros is that there'll be less help online, but if you don't mind that, no reason not to use it.
[20:18] <iKarith> And they ditch to the increasingly inadequate micro-USB power too
[20:19] <iKarith> (Having used some USB-C finally, I want all flavors of USB-B and A for that matter to die die die die)
[20:19] <akk> And most things you'll need help for won't be architecture specific so you can just use the normal arch solution.
[20:20] <iKarith> Y'know, if only for the ability to connect the thing on the first go ;)
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[20:36] <d1z> many friends of mine think I'm a hacker just because I can set up a pi... I'm always humble about because indeedd this is nothing. But for them, ssh'ing into a device and handling it over a console it's some "next level stuff"
[20:36] <d1z> "that's some Mr. Robot shiz brah"
[20:38] * Quatroking (~Quatrokin@507098BE.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:39] <Apocx> considering there is a whole story arc involving sshing into a raspberry pi in Mr. Robot, they're not wrong
[20:39] <d1z> they're all windows users though, so anything that involves a console, and not a dummy graphical interface and "Next... Next... Next" graphical installer it's already "next level stuff"
[20:40] <zleap> i know what you mean by the hacker thing
[20:41] <zleap> i do stuff that to me is normal (install a linux distro) so to me that is nothing special at least from my viewpoint
[20:41] <bobstro> It’s not just “end users”. Run into LOTS of tech people who have no idea what goes on under the hood.
[20:41] <zleap> i guess this could be why we have security breaches
[20:42] <bobstro> Can’t diagnose a network issue without flashing icons on the screen.
[20:42] <bobstro> Kids coming out of college, even with compsci/compeng degrees don’t have a clue.
[20:43] * kerio (kerio@bad.memes.vs.dank.ninja) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:43] <bobstro> (unless it’s something they were personally pursuing)
[20:43] <zleap> so they are too specialist
[20:43] <Apocx> that's because most comp sci college courses are a joke... >.>
[20:43] <zleap> or don't see a wider picture in terms of skills
[20:44] <bobstro> some of the programs are good, and some better than others, but my god, how can you get a degree without understanding networking?
[20:44] * Tw|tch (~Snapped@cpe-75-177-88-100.triad.res.rr.com) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[20:44] <zleap> i think the idea you teach your self, or can look up solutions seems to be a dying art,
[20:45] <zleap> if I need to do something i try and resarch it, i have learnt that from years of being on here or on mailing lists that you need to attempt to solveit or help people to help you
[20:45] <bobstro> Hah. I’m assuming you guys are on the younger end of the scale. I’ve realized I’m so old I know how to fix stuff. You’ll be getting that feeling too.
[20:45] <d1z> in computer science in general, more than a degree, one needs hunger for knowledge. Of all kinds, from the abstract mathematical and physical foundations, to the latest languages and techniques. It's not an easy field to be a part of as it evolves so fast. But being a linux user I believe provides such a solid foundation
[20:45] <bobstro> I blame Steve Jobs.
[20:45] <d1z> like overall in the field. No matter what you choose to specialize in... linux teaches you so much about and broadens your intuition
[20:46] <bobstro> It’s definitley a plus. The RPi expanded that to make tinkering with hardware easier, which is part of the draw for me.
[20:46] <zleap> i started with linux back with slackware i had to manujally copy floppy disk images then install that way,
[20:47] <bobstro> Yggdrasil!
[20:47] <zleap> i have a copy of that somewhere
[20:47] <zleap> came with a magazine
[20:47] <zleap> my first linux distro was slackware with 1.0.9 kernel, had to config x with a script tat asked what hardware you had, get it wrong you started over
[20:47] <bobstro> I’ve kept the books. “Slackware Professional - Linux 1.1"
[20:48] <zleap> i am sure i have some old books somewhere, still useful
[20:48] <bobstro> You learned all about the displays and every peripheral.
[20:48] <zleap> yeah
[20:48] <zleap> and if you re-compile the kernel, compile in lp module so the printer works, lo
[20:48] <bobstro> Back in the days when you could plug in a connector incorrectly and blow stuff up.
[20:48] <zleap> lol
[20:48] <bobstro> aha
[20:48] <d1z> I've met "sysadmins" that don't know how to use tmux or screen
[20:48] <bobstro> or a command line
[20:49] <zleap> eek
[20:49] <zleap> i am not that good, i did doa presentation on tmux at the tech jam
[20:49] <zleap> very simple but I have the basic key bindings printed out and stuck to my wall
[20:50] <d1z> I've been using tmux for ~8 years
[20:50] <bobstro> To add a board, had to configure interrupts, DMA and address.
[20:50] <zleap> ah yes
[20:50] <zleap> remember that
[20:50] <d1z> lol
[20:50] <zleap> sound card was 220 and irq 5
[20:50] <zleap> 220h
[20:50] <bobstro> IO address, that was it.
[20:50] <zleap> yeah
[20:51] <bobstro> This is one area that annoys me about the current state of the Raspberry Pi. Too many times, even basic things are distributed as a canned distribution. “Here, take this and run this binary you know nothing about.” Seem to be getting away from figuring out how to install and integrate things into a variety of systems.
[20:52] <zleap> i did a codecadmy sq1l course then set up sql on a space pc so i can play around with it
[20:52] <zleap> granted it is not exactly set up very well, but it works
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[20:54] <bobstro> That’s how you learn. Blow stuff up.
[20:54] <zleap> yeah
[20:54] <zleap> but i have no one to show me how to do stuff
[20:55] <zleap> i tried to set up phpmyadmin but hit problems, if someone can sit with me we could fix it and i would learn and make notes too
[20:55] <bobstro> Keep in mind, in the early days, nobody had so much support available. You’d scrounge books and magazines, and if lucky, mailings lists.
[20:56] <zleap> yeah
[20:56] <bobstro> You should be able to get support online. I don’t know phpadmin myself, so can’t help there.
[20:56] * Fr0stBit (5150@2a02:2149:862f:9c00:922b:34ff:fe36:b288) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] <Fr0stBit> Hi guys!
[20:56] <bobstro> The problem I see is that a lot of howtos and training videos throw in a bunch of “extra” stuff not related to the topic at hand.
[20:56] <bobstro> Hiya
[20:56] <Fr0stBit> Has anyone done graphics programming in raspberry pi?
[20:57] <Fr0stBit> I've noticed some really weird issues
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[20:57] <zleap> bobstro: either that or they are for a different version of the program
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[20:57] <zleap> so tryng to follow something fails due to one tiny thing being different
[20:57] <bobstro> good point: 2/3 of the stuff online seems to be for old versions.
[20:57] <zleap> or different distros
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[20:58] <Fr0stBit> I've almost confirmed, that when the rpi gpu has heavier workload than lighter workload (up to some point) it has higher framerate
[20:58] <Fr0stBit> I am going crazy
[20:58] <zleap> but going back to what you said earlier, whe3n people think you're a hacker for doing something really simple then getting help from people is a no go area
[20:59] <zleap> i was helping someone at the jam the otehr day, we ended up swapping a hdd over, i got help from 2 of the other young people at the jam,
[20:59] <zleap> it is nice to tap in to other people
[21:00] <bobstro> LUGs can be good, definitely.
[21:00] <zleap> yeah
[21:00] <bobstro> You get a lot of good people willing to share info.
[21:00] <zleap> the jam is like that
[21:00] <bobstro> Fr0stBit: Not sure I know what you mean...
[21:01] <zleap> even if it is someone to take a 2nd look at something
[21:01] <Fr0stBit> For example: Clone and build glfw windowing library with examples. Look at this example: https://github.com/glfw/glfw/blob/3.2.1/examples/simple.c
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[21:01] <d4rklit3> hi hi
[21:02] <bobstro> I’m no graphics coder! I do know that there are limitations on the RPi GPU info available.
[21:02] <d4rklit3> Is there LED wire/tape that can control the lights in serial? I want to be able to make the lights blink like a runway strip
[21:02] <d4rklit3> like a light guide
[21:02] <d4rklit3> so turn them on/off sequentially
[21:02] <bobstro> Isn’t the heavier load indicative of the processing being done to achieve that higher framerate?
[21:02] <Fr0stBit> If you run it as it is with LIBGL_SHOW_FPS=1 and notice the framerates, comparing to commenting the lines 144-151 rebuilding and running it again
[21:02] <d4rklit3> what would be nice is something that comes with some kind of USB interface and API
[21:02] <bobstro> d4rklit3: have you looked around on the Adafruit site?
[21:02] <Fr0stBit> You get lower framerates with NO WORK AT ALL
[21:02] <d4rklit3> bobstro , not sure what to look for
[21:03] <zleap> larson scanner does that, granted both wayts but you can adapt the program to repeat the sequence in one direction
[21:03] <bobstro> Fr0stBit: Ah, sorry… outside my expertise there.
[21:03] <bobstro> d4rklit3: maybe here - https://learn.adafruit.com/raspberry-pi-spectrum-analyzer-display-on-rgb-led-strip/led-strip-and-rgb-led-software
[21:04] <d4rklit3> tiiight
[21:04] <bobstro> One of many things on my “to do someday” list.
[21:04] <Fr0stBit> bobstro: Its like saying that running a the same program with no code running at all, runs slower than with work to do
[21:04] <Fr0stBit> Any ideas where i can get help
[21:04] <bobstro> I obviously missed having my entire house lit up and programmed for Christmas this year.
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[21:04] <d4rklit3> hahah
[21:05] <d4rklit3> you should start now for next year
[21:05] <bobstro> I got in trouble for putting the tree on an IoT-controlled outlet. I’d best stay away from the decorating.
[21:05] <d4rklit3> bobstro i think i need some like 10ft long
[21:05] <d4rklit3> at least
[21:06] <bobstro> You can chain them to some length
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[21:07] <bobstro> That page is using a 15 foot LED strip, and they sell 5m rolls.
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[21:08] <bobstro> d4rklit3: there are different LED strip technologies. The RPi can’t drive them all. Be sure to research before buying.
[21:09] <d4rklit3> well that link seems to give you the stuff you need on the side bar
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[21:12] <bobstro> Discussion here: https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/13929/using-one-raspi-to-control-long-100ft-of-5v-led-strip - one guy says he’s done 5m strips
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[21:39] <Frodox> Hi all. Why `amixer set PCM -- 10%+` doesn't work with integrated sound card and works fine with usb-sound card? Is it ok/expected?
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[23:06] <hubot> hi!
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[23:28] <BoomerET> I have a Pi2 via cat5 to my router, and running Plex to play .mp4 files (is that a container or a codec?) keeps stopping, like the encoding is taking too long. Will a Pi3 do better? (reading from external HDD connected via USB)
[23:29] <BoomerET> Do I need to transcode my videos to something the pi can handle better? (I own codecs for all my Pi's)
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[23:33] <specific> what are you using to play the file?
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[23:34] <BoomerET> What do you mean? I'm using the Plex app on PS4, I have a Plex Pass.
[23:35] <BoomerET> Plays files from my Windows 10 machine just fine, and that's WiFi.
[23:35] * FlyingPersian (~FlyingPer@5ED50D67.cm-7-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:36] <FlyingPersian> hi. can I use raspbian that has been used in a B+ on a RPI 3 as well? or do I need to rewrite a fresh raspbian install to the SD card?
[23:36] <BoomerET> You'll want to flash a new image.
[23:36] <FlyingPersian> okay
[23:36] <FlyingPersian> my camera module isn't working :'( got a new cable and it's not being detected
[23:37] <BoomerET> Is it enabled in raspi-config?
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[23:37] <FlyingPersian> yeah
[23:37] <FlyingPersian> it worked before
[23:37] <FlyingPersian> the old cable is broken, so got a new one and now it'S not being recognized at all
[23:37] <FlyingPersian> before, it was recognized, but it didn't take any pictures
[23:37] <BoomerET> Make sure it's plugged in straight, and not at an angle, and the flap thing is pushed down.
[23:38] <FlyingPersian> yeah I'll rewrite the img and put it into my RPI3, want to use it with the 3 anyway
[23:38] <BoomerET> I need to pick up a case for my picamera, it's just laying there ;(
[23:38] <FlyingPersian> accidentally put it into the b+ :D
[23:38] <specific> Boomer, what class SD card you have?
[23:38] <FlyingPersian> I got a pretty simple one
[23:39] <BoomerET> Wait, you own more than 1 Pi? <grin>
[23:39] <FlyingPersian> 3 tbh :D
[23:39] <FlyingPersian> one with rasplex
[23:39] <FlyingPersian> a b+ I used with the camera, but apparently the b+ is too weak
[23:39] <waveform> FlyingPersian, when you said before it was recognized but didn't take any pictures, what were the exact symptoms?
[23:39] <FlyingPersian> so I got a RPI3
[23:39] <FlyingPersian> the picture was broken according to windows waveform
[23:40] <FlyingPersian> I looked at the cable and some of the connectors are broken, not sure if it was like this before as well or if this just happened
[23:40] <waveform> so it took the picture successfully on the pi, but when you transferred it you were unable to open it on Windows
[23:40] <FlyingPersian> but it fits to the problem, so I assume that was it
[23:40] <BoomerET> That's what I was just asking about. I have a Pi2 with Plex, but playing videos stops and starts
[23:40] <FlyingPersian> yeah waveform, the pics where broken
[23:41] <FlyingPersian> also I couldn't use any surveillance software, it couldn't pick up any picture
[23:41] <FlyingPersian> I'll try in the RPI3 now. should have bought a longer cable tho, 5cm is shit for testing :D
[23:41] <waveform> actually more likely the transfer went wrong somewhere or the software on the windows end didn't interpret them correctly - if the camera produces encoded (JPEG/etc.) output successfully then there's nothing wrong with it
[23:42] <waveform> anyway - to the current problem
[23:42] <FlyingPersian> yeah I'll test it now on the RPI3 and see if it works
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[23:42] <BoomerET> Maybe I'll just flash it with Rasplex and see if that works. I have OpenHAB on the same Pi.
[23:43] <waveform> well, no diff. between B+ and 3B as far as camera is concerned (all the work happens on the GPU which is the same in both) but by all means try it anyway
[23:43] <BoomerET> Or just run to the computer store and pick up another Pi3.
[23:43] <waveform> I'm just concerned that if you've replaced the cable you want to make sure the conductors are the right way round at both ends (otherwise it won't be detected at all)
[23:44] <waveform> specifically on the Pi end, the blue side faces the ethernet port, and on the camera end, the blue side faces away from the lens
[23:44] <specific> SD card might be your bottleneck
[23:44] <FlyingPersian> yeah it's connected properly
[23:44] <FlyingPersian> I checked a video
[23:45] <FlyingPersian> the reason I bought the RPI3 was because I couldn't reach FullHD 30fps videos I believe
[23:45] <FlyingPersian> and I asked the dev of the software and he said it's because of the B+
[23:45] <waveform> all the Pis are capable of recording 1080p @30fps for H.264 (they all use the same GPU and that's what's doing all the work)
[23:45] <waveform> however, if the software in question is doing something other than H.264 all bets are off
[23:46] <FlyingPersian> not sure, lemme see what I used
[23:46] <FlyingPersian> motioneyeos
[23:46] <FlyingPersian> https://github.com/ccrisan/motioneyeos
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[23:49] <waveform> hmm, no idea if that uses the GPU out of the box. It's relying on motion and there's an MMAL-specific branch of motion for the Pi but whether motioneyeos is using that I can't (quickly) tell. If it's not then a 3B will make a difference
[23:49] <FlyingPersian> the pictures are still broke :'(
[23:49] <FlyingPersian> when I run "raspistill -o cam.jpg" I don't get any output, but the cam.jpg file is still created
[23:49] <waveform> ahh, no obvious error messages?
[23:50] <FlyingPersian> nothing
[23:50] <waveform> okay, that's good
[23:50] <waveform> in that case let's check the JPEG on the Pi itself
[23:50] <waveform> try "sudo apt install imagemagick" to install some tools for this
[23:50] <waveform> then once that's installed, "identify cam.jpg"
[23:50] <FlyingPersian> okay
[23:50] <waveform> that should spit out some text telling you the size and other attributes of the image
[23:51] <waveform> if you've got the desktop loaded you can then do "display cam.jpg" to view the image
[23:51] <FlyingPersian> naw I'm running the desktop-less version
[23:51] <FlyingPersian> it's installing now, takes a moment
[23:52] <waveform> okay, well identify will at least tell you if it can read the JPEG successfully
[23:52] <FlyingPersian> if not it must be the camera itself then, right?
[23:53] * semeion (~semeion@unaffiliated/semeion) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:53] <FlyingPersian> cam.jpg JPEG 2592x1944 2592x1944+0+0 8-bit sRGB 2.684MB 0.000u 0:00.010
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[23:53] <waveform> extremely unlikely - if raspistill successfully produces an image the camera is almost certainly working fine (I've *never* seen it produce a corrupt image except very early on when there were a few firmware issues - and then they were under esoteric circumstances)
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[23:53] <FlyingPersian> okay
[23:54] <FlyingPersian> well it seems to be readable
[23:54] <waveform> okay - that looks correct. So, next question is how you're transferring that to your other box and how you're attempting to open it
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[23:54] <FlyingPersian> WinSCP
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[23:54] <FlyingPersian> I just open it by going to where I saved it and double click it (using the win7 program to open it
[23:54] <FlyingPersian> not sure what it'S called, mine is in german
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[23:56] <waveform> hmmm, that *should* be fine (winscp is just ol' putty under the covers if I recall and that's usually fine for file transfer)
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[23:57] <FlyingPersian> so what could it be then?
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[23:58] <waveform> good question... it's a long shot but could you try another image viewer on windows? (e.g. I know GIMP works although that is quite a fat download)
[23:58] <FlyingPersian> I tried chrome, it only shows a small white square
[23:59] <FlyingPersian> installing GIMP now

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