#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2018-01-25

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * drewmcmillan (~drewmcmil@drm6.pip.aber.ac.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:05] <meshnetn00b> Hey guys. How reasonable would it be to go from some programming experience, but not python or html, to getting my rpi to respond to ssh commands that changes the color of an hdmi connected display?
[0:05] <meshnetn00b> ... within this evening?
[0:06] <meshnetn00b> And what fundamental skills do I need to research for this?
[0:06] <meshnetn00b> or terminology...
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[0:25] <shauno> you could probably do that with kivy, with a few minutes of copy'n'pasting examples
[0:26] <shauno> eg https://kivy.org/docs/api-kivy.graphics.html .. change that example so the rectangle starts at 0,0 and has the same dimensions as the screen, and you're pretty much set
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[0:34] * PotatoGuy (63e6dd22@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.230.221.34) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:38] * H4ndy is now known as h4ndy
[0:41] <PotatoGuy> Hi guys, im a software developer working with hardware for the first time! I want to create "lego" like pieces that know which pieces are connected to each other, and their orientation. Is something like this possible with the pi?
[0:42] * spybert (~spybert@c-73-235-164-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:46] <HrdwrBoB> well
[0:46] <HrdwrBoB> anything is possible
[0:46] * shantorn (~shantorn@67-5-140-73.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:46] <HrdwrBoB> this doesn't sound like a pi question though
[0:46] <HrdwrBoB> I think you need to flesh out your concept a bit more
[0:47] <stiv> as long as you don't violate the laws of thermodynamics...
[0:47] <stiv> but as HrdwrBoB points out, the problem is a bit... underspecified
[0:49] * iGullyGuy (uid233645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sbaomwifpvwcxobb) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[0:51] <HrdwrBoB> damn importing
[0:51] * stryk9 (~stryk9@212.27.22.20.bredband.3.dk) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:51] <HrdwrBoB> Japanese parts: 1500 JPY x2 - less than $50 AUD. By the time I get it to australia it's more like $250
[0:52] * ShorTie needs a better defination of 'create "lego" like pieces'
[0:52] <ShorTie> like 3d print ??
[0:53] * redrum88 (~Helder@187.23.80.112) Quit (Quit: Leaving!)
[0:53] <Willd> Probably more like this: http://cogsthebrainshop.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/snap-circuits-buy-online.jpg
[0:53] <Willd> But with electronics, I guess?
[0:56] <HrdwrBoB> ?
[0:56] <HrdwrBoB> but that is electronics?
[0:58] <Willd> HrdwrBoB: Oh, I didn't even look that close, just though it was the lamp and the switch :p
[0:58] <HrdwrBoB> hahaha
[0:59] * bumblebeer (~bumblebee@71.45.98.53) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] <PotatoGuy> Ye, something like the above. The idea is to have several pieces (eg wheel, propeller, pipe, etc) that can be connected with each other in all sort of different configurations. I need a way to determine how each piece is connected which each other.
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[1:03] <Willd> PotatoGuy: Something as big as the Pi is probably not right for you then
[1:04] <Willd> Perhaps as the central unit or something, but even then, it's huge
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[1:14] <willc> So I'd like to setup two photoresistors on a pi3b. From a tutorial it suggests using the BCM18. Are there any pins similar to it? I see another PWM0 but the description of the BCM18 is "particularly useful" for its ability to directly speak with the memory
[1:15] <willc> Is the BCM12 similar to the 18?
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[2:43] <chisight> willc: what are you trying to with combining an output pin and a device that outputs a signal?
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[2:44] <willc> I'm looking to use two laser pointers and two photosensors and every time the beam breaks to get the raspberri pi to trigger a command
[2:45] * dalmata (~dalmatHG@unaffiliated/dalmathg) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
[2:45] <willc> using two to determine direction of travel
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[2:52] <chisight> ahh, so all you need is any old input and to poll it regularly or to use a tool like pigpio to poll it for you.
[2:53] <willc> chisight, the tutorial I am referencing is this one https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/raspberry-pi-fridge-monitor/
[2:54] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:55] <willc> They use one pin and explain it is because of the current being drawn it can tell the RP whether it is high or low, and so I was wondering if there was another similar pin
[2:55] <willc> I ask because from what I see the photosensor is connected directly to the board
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[3:00] <chisight> willc: i see nothing in that article about bcm18 being "particularly useful" for this task.
[3:01] <willc> chisight, ahh yes, that information is on here https://pinout.xyz/pinout/ground
[3:01] <willc> more accurately https://pinout.xyz/pinout/pin12_gpio18
[3:02] <willc> My background is primarily Web and so this hardware stuff I'm still mapping my mind around.
[3:02] <shauno> in that fridge monitor article, that functionality isn't being used at all. it's just being used as a straight input
[3:03] * JasonCL (~JasonCL@cpe-2606-A000-4E4D-A300-4C85-E693-856B-EBB2.dyn6.twc.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:03] <chisight> ^^^ no benefit to wasting the high value pwm and mosi pin on reading a light sensor.
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[3:12] <willc> So does that mean BCM12 would act the same as BCM18?
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[3:14] <shauno> in that application, yes. for that usage, any of the pins painted green on pinout.xyz would work
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[3:15] <shauno> or pink, looking at it. not sure what those colours actually reflect
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[3:18] <willc> thank you shauno :)
[3:18] <willc> yay
[3:18] <willc> If you like I'll keep the channel updated on progress of the project, if that is of interest
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[3:24] <chisight> using a $10 pi for reading a single pin and reporting it somewhere over wireless seem like real overkill. i guess if this is the only automation task you expect to do for awhile, it has pretty low setup investment.
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[3:26] * mugai (~Hotondo@99-127-92-143.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:29] <willc> 2 pins ;)
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[3:31] <shauno> depends what the actual goal is. a lot of the sillier stuff people use pi for, they're actually just trying to learn such & such, and apply it the first place they find
[3:31] <shauno> it rarely means it's the right solution for that application, but doesn't mean it's wrong either
[3:31] <willc> I'm unaware of another method of sending photosensor data over wifi
[3:32] <willc> Which is why I'm using the raspberrypi
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[3:32] <shauno> I'd normally use the esp8266 for that, but that's because I bought far too many of them, so they're laying around like hammers in search of a nail
[3:34] <willc> I have a wifi dongle for the rp
[3:34] <willc> usb
[3:34] * harmlessgryphon (~default@d47-69-199-50.col.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Quit: stuck in a cobweb.)
[3:34] <willc> I'm a software person. This hardware stuff is new to me
[3:37] <willc> looks like I'd still need an arduino to use the esp8266 unless I'm misunderstanding
[3:37] <willc> hmm
[3:37] <chisight> the esp8266 is stand alone, no other board needed.
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[3:38] <willc> cool
[3:38] <willc> looks tiny too
[3:38] <redrabbit> they are awesome
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[3:38] <willc> perhaps that will be 2.0 version
[3:38] <willc> Still on 0.1 lol
[3:38] * Obi-Wan (~obi-wan@unaffiliated/obi-wan) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[3:39] <chisight> yeah, the esp-12 is not the smallest but is the cheapest currently. the really small ones are more than a pi.
[3:39] <redrabbit> i got some esp-M3 recently
[3:39] <redrabbit> really tiny
[3:39] <chisight> not familiar with that one.
[3:40] <redrabbit> works same as esp8266
[3:43] <redrabbit> https://aliexpress.com/item//32825926676.html
[3:44] * {HD} (nichts@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/hd/x-06969157) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:44] <redrabbit> to begin with them the wemos d1 are good
[3:47] <chisight> the esp-m3 appears to be a hair bigger than the esp-12 but is a few cents cheaper and breadboard friendly. seems a nice variant.
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[3:50] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@182.69.62.108) has joined #raspberrypi
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[3:55] <chisight> hmm, it is smaller. it uses a different shield that is smaller.
[3:55] * kingmanor (~kingmanor@ool-3f8ff035.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:56] <chisight> gpio0 isnt on the breadboard connector, so unless there is the gpio0 resistor inside that can, you have to solder one.
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[3:59] * paulschellin (~paulschel@osuosc/paulschellin) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:00] <Kryczek> Hi! Those esp* modules look very interesting... But how do you interact with them once they're running standalone? I imagine it connects to a WiFi network and then what? :)
[4:00] <chisight> then it runs your code and does whatever you programmed it to do.
[4:01] <Kryczek> is it capable of multitasking?
[4:01] <chisight> in this case, read two gpio pins and report when either goes high.
[4:01] <Kryczek> e.g. accepting several connections at the same time
[4:02] <Kryczek> or the idea is to have it purely emit its own readings over WiFi?
[4:02] <chisight> it's a microcontroller, there are lots of things it can do with enough software.
[4:02] <shauno> most of mine are in use as either switches or sensors. so I don't interact with them at all, they just post status messages to elsewhere on the network
[4:02] <Kryczek> I see :) thanks
[4:03] <chisight> there is even an rtos variant available.
[4:03] <willc> Could I run two sensors off of one of those?
[4:03] * paulschellin (~paulschel@osuosc/paulschellin) has left #raspberrypi
[4:04] <chisight> yes willc.
[4:04] <Kryczek> is it maybe the kind of hardware that goes into Amazon buttons? Those that you're supposed to put on your washing machine and it orders detergent when you press the button for example
[4:04] <willc> neato
[4:04] * krystianbajno (~krystianb@host-89-229-181-121.dynamic.mm.pl) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:04] <chisight> Kryczek: it's pretty similar, but amazon went with another brand.
[4:05] <Kryczek> ah yes I meant in concept :)
[4:05] * Binary_Rain (~Binary_Ra@2600:8800:5c80:1519:843a:bbad:a031:60df) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:05] <Kryczek> that's really cool, I had no idea it was that cheap
[4:05] <chisight> yes, in concept, pretty identical.
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[4:06] <redrabbit> the esp have enough power to run a small wifi repeater
[4:06] <redrabbit> web server, telnet, ftp, mqtt...
[4:06] <Kryczek> ah yes! I was wondering: does it perhaps support some kind of meshing by itself?
[4:06] <chisight> yep. lots of software's been written.
[4:06] <redrabbit> iot coffee machine, alarm, irrigation system etc
[4:07] <redrabbit> Kryczek: yes
[4:07] <shauno> I keep meaning to give IoT coffee machine a proper attempt :)
[4:07] <redrabbit> its easy
[4:07] * webdev007 (~webdev007@23.91.132.105) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:07] <redrabbit> doesnt pour the coffee on its own though :p
[4:08] <Kryczek> for that you need a Rube Goldberg machine
[4:08] <chisight> since when? isn't the robo-tender esp based? it pours and could do coffee.
[4:08] <Kryczek> the esp8266 can be used with a solenoid/actuator to push the first domino
[4:08] <redrabbit> chisight: nice
[4:08] <shauno> I've wanted to add a pid to mine for years. using an esp8266 would mean it could communicate with my alarm clock too ..
[4:09] * Cobalt (~cobalt@unaffiliated/sinnerman) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[4:09] <Kryczek> shauno: a new meaning to "wake up and smell the coffee!" :D
[4:10] <chisight> the esp8266 even has a sleep mode, so it can run on battery if you don't need it to wake up often.
[4:10] * Cobalt (~cobalt@unaffiliated/sinnerman) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:10] <redrabbit> i have like 5 esps repeaters hanging on trees in the forest
[4:10] <redrabbit> waiting for some signal to repeat
[4:10] <Kryczek> and I imagine that sleep mode can be interrupted by one of the GPIO pins?
[4:10] * ahrs (quassel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/ahrs) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:10] <redrabbit> so they sleep 99% of the time
[4:11] <redrabbit> you need to connect rst to gpio16 to it to wake up
[4:11] <redrabbit> or it sleeps for ever
[4:11] <chisight> in the fridge monitor project, that means one extra resistor lets you run the sensor off battery for almost as long as the battery self discharge rate will allow.
[4:11] <shauno> or an internal clock
[4:11] <Kryczek> awesome :) thanks
[4:11] <Kryczek> redrabbit: how do the repeater know to wake up in time to hear the signal that they need to repeat?
[4:12] * ahrs (quassel@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/ahrs) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:12] <redrabbit> https://github.com/martin-ger/esp_wifi_repeater
[4:12] <redrabbit> check for signal every 10 minutes
[4:12] <redrabbit> if wifi present > repeat, else go back to sleep
[4:12] <Kryczek> no risk of clock drift?
[4:12] <shauno> the espresso machine I have is pretty popular for coffeetronics though, so plenty of groundwork already done. I've just been too lazy to actually go adding thermocouples & SSRs
[4:12] <redrabbit> doesnt matter
[4:13] <Kryczek> redrabbit: aaaaah! Do you mean they repeat a constant WiFi signal, like the presence of an access point? I thought it was like a one-time signal
[4:13] <redrabbit> yeah
[4:13] <chisight> Kryczek: you just request a sync over wifi each time you wake up, or maybe only once an hour.
[4:14] <Kryczek> chisight: good point
[4:14] <redrabbit> i run them on 2xAA batteries
[4:14] <redrabbit> works fine
[4:14] <Kryczek> amazing
[4:14] <Kryczek> how long?
[4:14] <shauno> clock drift is only really a problem if you think it's a problem. if I have a sensor that wakes up every 15 minutes and tells me what temperature it is in the kitchen ... I don't actually care if that's every 15 minutes and 0.2 seconds. the issue is a non-issue
[4:14] <redrabbit> lasts a while idk exactly
[4:14] <Kryczek> shauno: I misunderstood the idea, I thought the chain of 5 repeaters was waking up once every 10 mins to check on each other
[4:14] <redrabbit> each unit cost me around 2,5€
[4:14] * t0no6a (~t0no6a@201.119.247.34) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:15] <chisight> assuming temperatures don't change too fast, i imagine drift could be predicted to under 1 second an hour.
[4:15] <redrabbit> everything included, batteries, holder etc
[4:15] <redrabbit> the price of a mc chicken
[4:16] <chisight> mmmm, chicken
[4:18] * mschorm (~mschorm@ip-78-102-201-117.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[4:19] <redrabbit> the hard part is to hang them in trees high enough
[4:19] <redrabbit> without them getting stuck
[4:19] <chisight> lol
[4:19] <redrabbit> i lost some in the process
[4:19] <chisight> bottle rockets!!!
[4:21] <Kryczek> :D
[4:22] <Kryczek> redrabbit: what do you use them for? :)
[4:22] <redrabbit> for the lol
[4:22] <Kryczek> "Internet connectivity in the Upside Down"
[4:22] <chisight> use strong synthetic thread, a couple washers, and a bottle rocket to get the thread high into the tree. the washers pull it down (if you're lucky)
[4:22] <redrabbit> its an experiment
[4:23] <redrabbit> chisight: i have used fishing thread
[4:23] <redrabbit> damn thing got stuck in the tree idk how many times
[4:23] <redrabbit> :D
[4:23] <chisight> might work even better, slippery.
[4:24] <redrabbit> i had to break it free a dozen times and last time like an idiot i got whipped back :
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[4:24] <redrabbit> fail
[4:24] <chisight> once up, you'd have to tie both ends of the string tightly down so that the wind can't tangle it up.
[4:25] <redrabbit> i managed to get 3 nicely done
[4:25] <redrabbit> but it requires a bit of luck
[4:25] <chisight> yeah, i imagine it does.
[4:25] <chisight> fishing line is cheap though.
[4:26] <redrabbit> 1 got stolen, 1 falls in the water, 1 got stuck in the tree but is useable
[4:26] <redrabbit> the goal is to be able to remove them/change the batteries
[4:27] <redrabbit> then make some with a solar pannel
[4:27] <redrabbit> that would be the next level
[4:27] <chisight> this is why you keep both ends at the bottom. so you can make a loop to raise and lower the esp.
[4:27] <Kryczek> combine them with bird houses?
[4:27] * afen (karsk@team-heimdal.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[4:27] <Kryczek> you could put the solar panels on the roof of the bird house
[4:27] <redrabbit> chisight: yeah i had that idea as well
[4:28] <chisight> a mid weight 15lb test line should handle just about anything as long as your tiedown has some give to it.
[4:28] <redrabbit> i got some ultra strong stuff atm
[4:28] <redrabbit> 0.5mm
[4:29] <chisight> how many pounds test?
[4:29] <redrabbit> 22kg
[4:29] <Kryczek> how heavy is the thing now?
[4:29] <redrabbit> also i got 500meters of some .22mm
[4:29] <chisight> ahh, pretty hefty
[4:29] <redrabbit> the repeater doesnt weigh much
[4:30] <redrabbit> i have not weighed it but its mostly the two AA batteries
[4:30] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@182.69.62.108) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:30] <chisight> the strength is to overcome being battered by moving branches and to pull tight enough that the wind doesn't tie it in knots.
[4:30] <redrabbit> the rest is super light
[4:31] <redrabbit> https://i.imgur.com/oNUkjym.jpg
[4:31] <redrabbit> that's what they looked like before i packed them with a hot sealing machine
[4:32] <Kryczek> nice
[4:32] <Kryczek> yes I was about to ask about waterproofing :)
[4:32] <chisight> ahh, esp1. i bet you'll be happy with those esp-m3
[4:33] <redrabbit> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Dqctgh6fL._SL250_.jpg one of theses
[4:33] <redrabbit> then i use cheap food bags
[4:33] <redrabbit> works fine so far
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[4:33] <Kryczek> clever
[4:34] <redrabbit> i seal 3/4 times
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[4:34] <redrabbit> so theres multiple layers
[4:34] <redrabbit> doesnt add any cost to it
[4:34] * s1car1us (uid143070@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mgfncesopwvsfayz) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[4:34] <chisight> nice
[4:34] <Kryczek> you didn't say about birdhouses
[4:34] <redrabbit> chisight: i build two with esp-m3 its much better
[4:34] <redrabbit> so i ordered 7 more
[4:34] <redrabbit> Kryczek: idk about that
[4:34] <redrabbit> :p
[4:35] <chisight> i bet the can makes range and reliability a bit better.
[4:36] <redrabbit> mainly because soldering gpio16 to rst on the esp-01 is a pain
[4:36] <redrabbit> certainly doable i did it 4 times
[4:37] <redrabbit> but it takes 1 second on the esp-m3
[4:37] <redrabbit> and its easy
[4:38] <chisight> ahh, that does sound painful. i solder the en pin on an mp1584en or the dtr on ch340g. the esp8266 is an even smaller pitch than those.
[4:38] * xamindar (~quassel@71-15-99-150.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[4:39] <redrabbit> its like you solder it there and try till it works
[4:39] <redrabbit> there's no way you can tell without trying
[4:39] <redrabbit> if its soldered properly or not
[4:40] <chisight> they make microscopes for that, but trial and error is cheaper and works too.
[4:40] <redrabbit> ah i have never tried to use mine for that
[4:40] <redrabbit> id feel even more awkward
[4:40] <redrabbit> and probably end up burning myself
[4:40] <redrabbit> lol
[4:41] <chisight> i've recently started using a 2" magnifying glass as a macro lens for my phone camera. works pretty good at getting closer than it normally could.
[4:41] <redrabbit> ah i have a kit like that
[4:41] <redrabbit> taking dust
[4:42] <redrabbit> i dont even remember where i put it
[4:42] <redrabbit> that would be handy
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[4:43] <redrabbit> i tried it for the wide angle on the rpi cam
[4:43] <redrabbit> was ...bad
[4:43] * Binary_Rain (~Binary_Ra@2600:8800:5c80:1519:843a:bbad:a031:60df) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[4:43] <chisight> earlier today i used it to finally identify the markings on a particularly small chip that i'd been having trouble identifying.
[4:45] * DJDan (~DJDan@115-64-177-188.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:45] <redrabbit> https://youtu.be/SSiRkpgwVKY?t=1m49s the esp is powerful willc
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[4:48] * willc is now known as will[sleep]
[4:49] * Ilyas (uid43013@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-butapyzgpeywaqbl) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[4:50] <chisight> oh, i recently got my first tv since the 80486 came out... i wonder if it can do ntsc or only atsc.
[4:52] <redrabbit> i run tv software on my pc with 4 tuners, cable and satellite
[4:52] <redrabbit> i dont watch it much though its just for the sake of the setup
[4:52] <redrabbit> sat tv washes your brain like mr clean
[4:53] <chisight> i have had an atsc card for a long time. it's back in it's box collecting dust and has been for a few years now.
[4:54] * akar (~user@182.253.1.146) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:54] <redrabbit> theres even live gpu hevc transcoding for mobile clients
[4:54] <chisight> tv just doesn't do much for me. i don't like youtube even, tutorials or documentation should be text with graphics when needed.
[4:54] <redrabbit> turns you into one of these smartphone zombies ez
[4:55] <chisight> hey
[4:55] <chisight> my smartphone does text!
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[4:55] <chisight> i'm typing on it now.
[4:55] <HrdwrBoB> I run text only terinals
[4:55] <HrdwrBoB> terminals
[4:55] <HrdwrBoB> everywhere.
[4:55] <HrdwrBoB> my smartphone runs linux in text only mode.
[4:55] <redrabbit> there's lots of good content on yt
[4:55] <HrdwrBoB> it's a bit cumbersome
[4:55] <HrdwrBoB> but eh
[4:55] <redrabbit> lol HrdwrBoB
[4:56] <redrabbit> you win the medal for today
[4:56] <chisight> same, though terminals and on screen keyboards are not very compatible.
[4:56] <redrabbit> crazy
[4:56] <redrabbit> i beleive in using the most efficient tool for the job
[4:57] <chisight> i so miss my slider. :-(
[4:57] <redrabbit> sometimes it is cli, sometimes not
[4:58] <chisight> samsung came out with a really stupid portrait mode keyboard for this phone, the buttons are too small to use.
[4:59] <redrabbit> i use swiftkey
[5:00] <chisight> i don't care if it's 1/2 inch thick, i want my replaceable battery and my slider back.
[5:00] <redrabbit> forget about it
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[5:01] <redrabbit> best case you can still diy
[5:01] <chisight> yeah, i know... wishful thinking. never going to get what i want.
[5:01] <redrabbit> its a pain though
[5:02] <redrabbit> i limit the max charge to 85%
[5:02] <redrabbit> and try not to go under 20%
[5:02] <chisight> someday i may have enough prototyping equipment to make a slider, but i don't have it now.
[5:03] * xdb_ (~xdb@gateway/tor-sasl/xdb) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[5:04] * d4re (~d4re@gateway/tor-sasl/d4re) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:04] <HrdwrBoB> hrh
[5:04] <HrdwrBoB> heh
[5:04] * xdb (~xdb@gateway/tor-sasl/xdb) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[5:05] <HrdwrBoB> I'd rather a netbook
[5:05] <HrdwrBoB> and a phone
[5:05] <redrabbit> HrdwrBoB: by the way what is that phone and linux dist
[5:05] <redrabbit> i wanted to use something like that
[5:05] * d4re (~d4re@gateway/tor-sasl/d4re) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:05] <redrabbit> 4G works?
[5:08] <chisight> plenty of tssop package chips with usb or vusb hid support to power a custom built key matrix molded from hobby silicone. moldable epoxy over the pcb completes the package, but the slider itself is a problem
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[5:21] <meshnetn00b> has anyone here tried Picroft on a 2B? I see one site saying it has to be at least a pi 3, but another says 2b or 3.
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[5:49] <HrdwrBoB> redrabbit: hahhahaha
[5:49] <HrdwrBoB> redrabbit: I was joking
[5:49] <HrdwrBoB> I'm not insane
[5:50] * comptroller (~comptroll@47-213-225-245.paolcmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
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[5:59] <chisight> HrdwrBoB: then you're in the wrong channel. the rest of us in here are insane. that's why nobody thought twice about your message.
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[6:02] <shauno> speak for yourself. I'm operating within normal parameters.
[6:03] <chisight> ok data.
[6:04] * Bambus (~Bambus@p200300DF83DB00310F22D4C4BF7A5A34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[6:05] * Vonter (~Vonter@106.51.111.55) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[6:06] <HrdwrBoB> look don't get me wrong
[6:06] <HrdwrBoB> I love the command line
[6:06] <HrdwrBoB> I come to you know via irssi and screen, of course
[6:06] <chisight> i was kidding HrdwrBoB
[6:06] * Bambus (~Bambus@p4FF661FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:06] <HrdwrBoB> but we have invented things since 1975 :)
[6:07] * nsk_nyc (~nsk_nyc@179.63.254.74) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:07] <chisight> though i was on a smartphone with a screen keyboard and do want my slider back at almost any cost.
[6:07] * Tachyon` (tachyon@rinoa.autie.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[6:07] <nsk_nyc> hey there.
[6:08] <nsk_nyc> Anyone who use berryboot know why the wpa_supplicant.conf file goes missing after random boots?
[6:08] <nsk_nyc> I can't seem to figure out why its deleted at times
[6:08] * dreamon__ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:09] <nsk_nyc> I'm attempting to run rpi headless with vnc enabled
[6:09] * kingmanor (~kingmanor@ool-3f8ff035.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:09] <nsk_nyc> but at times i'll get wpa file is missing error
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[8:08] <wallmonitorcable> I have a "Raspberry Pi 700MHz Arm CPU 512MB RAM", ordered in 2014. Is there such a thing as a minimal OS that is self-updating/self-maintaining with zero maintenance required by me that I can put on it?
[8:09] <wallmonitorcable> I only wanna be able to run PHP (command line) scripts, access a PostgreSQL database (no performance required) and use the Internet connection (wired).
[8:09] <wallmonitorcable> Remotely, that is. It will be headless.
[8:10] <wallmonitorcable> Used as a sort of server 24/7. I hope that's not a problem for the Raspberry Pi?
[8:11] * energizer (~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[8:11] <wallmonitorcable> (It has a 8 GB flash card in it.)
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[8:21] <wallmonitorcable> (Actually, it was 16 GB.)
[8:21] <wallmonitorcable> Annoyingly, it says "(c)2011.12" on the actual unit... What does that mean?
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[8:47] <mfa298> wallmonitorcable: raspbian lite should work, although it doesnt auto update - you'll need to use apt to upgrade the packages
[8:48] <wallmonitorcable> Then it doesn't qualify...
[8:48] <mfa298> although i dont know how well a db would run on the pi itself - but acessing an external db server would work
[8:49] <wallmonitorcable> ?
[8:49] <mfa298> you can always do the apt upgrades via cron to make it mostly automatic
[8:49] <wallmonitorcable> Why would a database not run? How weak is this thing?
[8:51] <wallmonitorcable> Why have they not thought of building in automatic updates? No user is going to babysit and keep track of every patch.
[8:52] <mfa298> for how fast it is you said it yourself 700mhz cpu and 512mb ram - think a 10 year old pc (maybe more), that pi model is almost 5 years old now - there;s the pi3 wich is about 10 times faster
[8:53] * N3LRX (~n3lrx@fedora/N3LRX) Quit (Quit: It is no concern of ours how you run your own planet, but if you threaten to extend your violence, this Earth of yours will be reduced to a burned-out cinder. --Klaatu)
[8:53] * djsxxx_away is now known as Dave_MMP
[8:53] <Lartza> wallmonitorcable, Babysit? apt-get update && apt-get upgrade, done
[8:53] <Lartza> wallmonitorcable, Autoupdates are a VERY bad idea to have by default, but they are user configurable
[8:53] <wallmonitorcable> Having to log in and type that command constantly is BABYSITTING.
[8:53] <Lartza> Welcome to the world of computerss
[8:53] <wallmonitorcable> No...
[8:53] <wallmonitorcable> That's the world of idiocy.
[8:54] <wallmonitorcable> This should've been fully automated since the 1980s.
[8:54] <Lartza> No, running automatic updates without knowledge is idiotic
[8:54] <Lartza> Since it can break things
[8:54] <wallmonitorcable> It only breaks things if the developers are idiots.
[8:54] <wallmonitorcable> And don't test stuff.
[8:54] <mfa298> I dont think debian (which is what raspbian is based off) does auto updates
[8:54] <Lartza> You are free to implement https://wiki.debian.org/UnattendedUpgrades
[8:55] <mfa298> whats the #1 complaint about windows these days - that it does auto upates - I think most of the world might disagree with you
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[8:58] <Aph3x-WL> lol
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[8:58] <Lartza> Windows should have just done it more silently all these years, it's the notifications that piss people off
[8:58] <Lartza> Or the fact that Windows Server reboots without authorization on it's own...
[8:58] <Lartza> With default configuration
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[8:59] <mfa298> also the random timing - unless your there to cancel it within 15 minutes
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[9:00] <Aph3x-WL> also that it detroys connections when every computer in the building starts autoupdating at once
[9:00] <Aph3x-WL> destroys*
[9:00] <Lartza> That's just poor IT department :P
[9:00] <Lartza> Should have an on-site update server and Windows Enterprise versions that contact that instead of Microsoft's servers
[9:00] <Aph3x-WL> or that you have a 50/50 chance of being able to boot after a windows update
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[9:02] <mfa298> I think I've had as many broken linux systems post update as broken windows (yes linux distros break things as well in updates)
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[9:03] <Lartza> Even Debian? :O
[9:03] <Lartza> :P
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[9:08] <mfa298> not run pure debian so much (at least not on linux kernels)- but ubuntu and rhel have had issues with bad packages before
[9:12] <Aph3x-WL> i don't think i've ever had a broken linux after an update other than the 2012 mess that was the arch migration to systemd
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[9:24] <pclark36> windows sucks because desktops will update and reboot while you are actively using them. My biggest gripe, was when they slipped the windows 10 upgrade INTO a windows 7 update, I woke up and my machine was on win10, and then it did more updates and ruined about 3 hours of work because it decided it was the best time to reboot
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[10:34] <shiftplusone> Also, raspbian has packages added added by raspberry pi, which don't go through experimental/testing repos. It's impossible for developers to test every single use case, since many people do things which only work by accident rather than because it's meant to work that way.
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[10:36] <shiftplusone> It's inevitable that some updates may break things for some people. It has nothing to do with developers being idiots.
[10:37] <mfa298> in some ways raspbian probably has a better chance of being safe doing auto updates, updates have either come through debians testing structure or are specific to the Pi generally done by people that really know the hardware - and their destined for a small number of boards (as opposed to Windows or x86/Linux which could be run on millions of hardware combos)
[10:38] <sztelke> oh man i hate rpi
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[10:39] <rafalcpp> sztelke: lol why
[10:39] <shiftplusone> mfa298: as well as they know the hardware, mistakes happen or decisions which are unpopular with some segment of the users are sometimes made.
[10:40] <shiftplusone> I've pushed out broken packages before and am constantly paranoid about it doing it again >.>
[10:43] <BurtyB> they also have insecure stuff in there but such is heh
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[10:43] <shiftplusone> certain /dev/ permissions, passwordless sudo and pkexec or something else?
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[10:49] <BurtyB> shiftplusone, https://github.com/raspberrypi/usbboot/pull/27#pullrequestreview-85008240 I can plug a bit of hardware into the USB port of a machine running rpiboot and retrieve any file the process can access.
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[10:51] <shiftplusone> right now rpiboot requires root permissions to run though, right?
[10:52] <BurtyB> shiftplusone, yes :)
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[10:52] <shiftplusone> yup, makes sense.
[10:53] <BurtyB> so for ex. any school allowing people to use the gpioexpander is basically giving them read access to any file via the usb port
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[10:54] <myxenovia> hi
[10:54] <myxenovia> what is the latest raspberry pi 3 with 2 ethernet?
[10:54] <shiftplusone> BurtyB: wouldn't the machine need to be configured to serve that file?
[10:55] <shiftplusone> myxenovia: What? If I am parsing that correctly.... there's is no pi with 2 ethernet ports.
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[10:57] <BurtyB> shiftplusone, no, you can read any file by using enough "../" to get to the root then go to the dir you want
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[10:58] <shiftplusone> ah, since the rpiboot serves files requested... got it.
[10:59] <myxenovia> shiftplusone okay. well what is the model of rpi with greatest specs?
[10:59] <myxenovia> is rpi 3 model B the greatest specs no?
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[10:59] <shiftplusone> myxenovia: it is indeed.
[11:00] * ravustaja (~ravustaja@37-33-7-128.bb.dnainternet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[11:00] <oq> there are many more low power arm boards with better specs myxenovia if you're willing to branch beyond pis
[11:00] <myxenovia> shiftplusone i installed debian 9 stretch but its lag
[11:00] <myxenovia> oq is that going to be a custom rpi?
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[11:01] <shiftplusone> myxenovia: what's it actually running? Which desktop environment? What's lagging? Is it the browser?
[11:01] * davr0s (~textual@host86-159-99-19.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[11:01] <oq> the desktop environment lagging is to be expected
[11:01] <shiftplusone> Eh? I've never had LXDE lag
[11:01] <oq> uh huh..
[11:02] <myxenovia> shiftplusone where i can see those info? so i can show it to you
[11:02] <myxenovia> im lagging like i have a very old pc with shitty specs
[11:02] <BurtyB> shiftplusone, yeah I just sent msg = b'\x00\x00\x00\x00'+filename.encode('ascii')+b'\x00' to GetFileSize and msg = b'\x01\x00\x00\x00'+filename.encode('ascii')+b'\x00' to ReadFile and wait for the packets to come in :)
[11:02] <shiftplusone> myxenovia: where are you noticing the lag?
[11:03] * MacGeek (~BSD@host141-179-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:03] <shiftplusone> myxenovia: to word it another way, what are you doing at the time you notice the lag?
[11:03] <myxenovia> shiftplusone when im using normally. like doing sudo make in 2 terminals
[11:03] <myxenovia> while browsing browser
[11:03] <myxenovia> at the same time
[11:03] * ravustaja (~ravustaja@37-33-7-128.bb.dnainternet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:03] <oq> shiftplusone: do you exclusively use pis at the foundation? you might've forgotten how a proper desktop feels
[11:04] <shiftplusone> oq: nope, that's not it.
[11:04] * mort (~loungeuse@188.166.114.29) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:05] * nolsen (nolsen@gateway/shell/suchznc/x-tsyhapvejyywejpb) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[11:05] * aykut (~aykut@unaffiliated/aykut) Quit (Excess Flood)
[11:05] <shiftplusone> myxenovia: yeah, it's you're going to run make, you'll pretty much pin the CPU at 100% and use up a fair bit of IO bandwidth, so it would make sense that everything else would lag while stuff is building
[11:06] <myxenovia> shiftplusone i noticed it when i installed debian jessie its not that lag
[11:06] <myxenovia> i think this debian 9 is lagger
[11:06] <shiftplusone> myxenovia: it's best to do one thing at a time. Multitasking like that is probably going to be painful. If you want a faster browser, take a look at vivaldi - it seems to have better feedback than chromium. There's a special pi build.
[11:06] <myxenovia> btw its both raspbian
[11:06] <myxenovia> i see
[11:06] <myxenovia> vivaldi
[11:07] <shiftplusone> https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-for-raspberry-pi/
[11:07] * aykut (~aykut@unaffiliated/aykut) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:08] <Lartza> I really wish Vivaldi had an android version >.>
[11:08] <Lartza> I'd probably use it in that case
[11:10] * m_t (~m_t@p5DDA2FB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:10] <myxenovia> Lartza what is your os
[11:10] * Lorduncan (~Thunderbi@static-21-4-227-77.ipcom.comunitel.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:10] <Lartza> Windows 10
[11:11] <Lartza> I wish it were Arch though :(
[11:13] * asteele (~cronoh@2601:646:102:c370:9d2e:355e:7c60:1a7e) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[11:14] <MacGeek> MagPi #66 and HackSpace #3 are out
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[11:59] * myxenovia (ca5a84ad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.90.132.173) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[12:27] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:27] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) has joined #raspberrypi
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[12:50] * thomas_25 (~textual@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:17] * kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@38.142.29.4) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:19] * SlammaJamma (~SlammaJam@host-184-166-33-84.gdj-co.client.bresnan.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[13:28] * kingarmadillo (~kingarmad@38.142.29.4) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[13:40] * mschorm (mschorm@nat/redhat/x-cxkdhggpukkkdugb) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[14:16] * TheSin (~TheSin@node-1w7jra1z8gh9c2z7vzgifudle.ipv6.telus.net) Quit (Quit: Client exiting)
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[16:37] <chisight> shouldn't a zero always try to output to hdmi? i just booted with the monitor not connected and when i connected it, i'm not getting video. still at the defaults in /boot/config.txt so i've not forced the mode yet.
[16:39] <mfa298> by default if there's no hdmi all the Pis will output video to the composite out
[16:39] * akk (~akkana@75-161-91-17.albq.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:40] <mfa298> you can fix it to always output to hdmi though a config.txt setting
[16:40] <chisight> even pis that don't have a composite out like the zero 1.3?
[16:40] <mfa298> I thought there is a composite out on the Zero, it's just on a header
[16:40] <chisight> i know how to set the config.txt. i'm trying to avoid the dirty shutdown.
[16:40] <Habbie> what dirty shutdown?
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[16:41] <chisight> pulling the plug because the head isn't working.
[16:41] <Habbie> ah
[16:41] <Habbie> well in theory you could still type on usb
[16:41] <Habbie> just very blindly
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[16:41] <chisight> any hints what keys it would take to do a clean shutdown? i don't normally have a head on a pi.
[16:41] <mfa298> or you might be able to use the serial console (although I don't know how good that is on the ZeroW)
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[16:42] <chisight> i haven't soldered headers on yet, so no serial yet.
[16:42] <Habbie> chisight, pi enter raspberry enter sudo halt -p
[16:42] <Habbie> chisight, i'd say
[16:42] <chisight> thanks Habbie, trying that...
[16:42] <mfa298> probably 'pi' 'raspberry' 'poweroff'
[16:42] <Habbie> mfa298, plus sudo
[16:43] <mfa298> true that
[16:43] <Habbie> halt -p indeed equals poweroff
[16:43] <Habbie> it's the same binary even
[16:43] <chisight> so when outputting to composite, the gui doesn't start?
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[16:43] <mfa298> shows how rarely I shut my pis down.
[16:43] <Habbie> chisight, oh
[16:43] <Habbie> chisight, maybe push ctrl-alt-f1 first then, to get to a terminal
[16:43] <Habbie> mfa298, i usually just pull the power
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[16:45] <takane2> I have a gsm modem connected via usb and it seems like everyboot one of two kernel drivers is loaded for it which changes the device name. Anyway to make it stick with one or the other?
[16:45] <mfa298> 93 days uptime on one of mine, although I did shutdown a couple of my Pi1Bs yesterday, I didn't really trust them when moving furniture around
[16:45] <chisight> did ctrl alt f1 then pi enter raspberry enter pi enter raspberry enter poweroff enter.
[16:45] <chisight> got one blink of the green led and the led is steady on still. will the green light go out when it's safely shutdown?
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[16:47] <akk> When it's shut down the red light will be on, green off.
[16:48] <akk> Does ctrl-alt-f1 get a console on raspbian? I'm on Debian here, and X is on ctrl-alt-f1.
[16:48] <akk> ctl-alt-f2 works here
[16:48] <chisight> my zero 1.3 doesn't seem to have a red led.
[16:48] <ld50> ahoi! i'm trying to netboot my raspberrys. i've been having success with the RPi3, but the RPi2 will not collaborate. "/opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd otp_dump | grep 17" always says "17:1020000a", despite "program_usb_boot_mode=1" in config.txt and a sd-card with just bootcode.bin on it goes nowhere
[16:48] <Habbie> akk, oh, might be
[16:48] <Habbie> ld50, what revision pi2?
[16:49] <ld50> Pi 2 B V1.1, sayeth the PCB
[16:49] <akk> oh, yeah, led behavior is different on different models, ignore what I said about red/green since I don't have a pi2.
[16:50] <chisight> the other guy has the 2b, i'm on a zero 1.3 trying to do the clean shutdown.
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[16:50] <chisight> the 2b does have the same lights as a b+ and 3b.
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[16:51] <Habbie> ld50, if i recall correctly, you need 1.2 for this
[16:52] <ld50> https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2016/08/Overview-RPi-netboot-768x1028.jpg
[16:52] <ld50> this lead me to believe that every RPi2 would work, as even the RPi1 B+ works
[16:53] <Habbie> ld50, note the 'bootcode.bin on SD' bit, do you have that?
[16:53] <Habbie> oh you have that
[16:53] <Habbie> missed that, sorry
[16:53] <Habbie> i have no clue if those with SD are configured the same way though
[16:53] <ld50> Habbie: no problem, i'm glad someone is talking to me :)
[16:54] <Habbie> it's this or writing documentation ;)
[16:55] <ld50> haha. i tried giving it more than just bootcode.bin, starting with the *.elf files, but that doesn't help either
[16:55] <ld50> my guess is that program_usb_boot_mode somehow fails
[16:56] <ld50> i do have the latest firmware rev when bootet normally:
[16:56] <ld50> /opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd version
[16:56] <ld50> Jan 11 2018 19:20:45
[16:57] <mfa298> if you're putting bootcode.bin on an SD card do you need to still set the OTP flag still - I had assumed that was only for the USB boot stuff built into the 2837 SoC (where you don't need and SD card at all)
[16:57] <ld50> but still "17:1020000a", i tried with and without newlines at the end of config.txt (after program_usb_mode=1), no difference
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[16:57] <Habbie> mfa298, that's what i'm guessing as well
[16:57] <ld50> mfa298: i don't know, i was unable to find documentation on that
[16:58] <ld50> of course i tried the netboot anyway, created a new fat partition on a new sd card, slapped the bootcode.bin on there, but i only get a flashing green LED on the RPi2
[17:00] <mfa298> as a silly thought, do you have the right filesystem on the SD (Fat32) and not too larger a partition (might be issues if it's many gigs)
[17:01] <mfa298> might also be worth trying the bootcode.bin linked from https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bootmodes/ just incase it's slightly different to one that's shipped in raspbian
[17:01] <ld50> mfa298:
[17:01] <ld50> Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
[17:01] <ld50> /dev/sdg1 2048 1050623 1048576 512M b W95 FAT32
[17:01] <ld50> used mkfs.vfat on that, so i guess it should be okay
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[17:02] <ld50> i tried the bootcode.bin from https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/raw/master/boot/bootcode.bin and the one on the TFTP server that successfully boots the RPi3
[17:02] <ld50> none of them worked
[17:02] <mfa298> I'm not sure how to confirm it's right, I've not yet tried network booting any Pi's, just a thought of things to check
[17:04] <mfa298> the github url looks like the one linked from the page so that's probably the safest one to try.
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[17:04] <ld50> i'll try to add the "timeout" file to give the ethernet more time
[17:04] <ld50> maybe that's the problem
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[17:05] <ld50> it works. damn. wow. what a relief.
[17:05] <mfa298> might be worth trying with a usb boot stick first and see if that comes up.
[17:06] <mfa298> ah, even better, network ports sometimes take a while to come up - particularly if it's a managed switch
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[17:09] <ld50> it worked with the RPi3 and the "timeout" fix mentioned usb mass storage so i figured it wouldn't apply
[17:09] <ld50> but that was it
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[17:09] <ld50> i pondered on this for hours before i came here =D
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[17:23] <chisight> serial console appears to not be enabled by default anymore on a pi zero 1.3 using the 2017-11-29 image. i was able to get the steady slow blinks and then no light by pressing ctrl-alt-delete, waiting, pressing ctrl-alt-f2, entering pi enter raspberry enter sudo bash enter poweroff enter.
[17:24] <chisight> thanks for the help Habbie and mfa298. ld50, it would have been nice had you waited until i was done before hopping in.
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[17:25] <ld50> chisight: sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt anything. i'm used to irc channels where n conversations are going on at the same time.
[17:25] <ld50> and thanks @ Habbie and mfa298, too :)
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[17:26] <chisight> needless to say, the iron is heating, ssh is being touched, the config.txt is being edited to enable 1080p forced hdmi.
[17:27] <chisight> ld50: yeah, so am i. not sure why this one seems to be so single threaded. it isn't always.
[17:29] <chisight> and after all that, i had not dismounted the right image before i started. my "perfect, clean install" image wasn't perfect anyway.
[17:29] <Habbie> this channel is multithreaded
[17:29] <Habbie> like most channels
[17:29] <Habbie> it's okay to have multiple conversations at the same time
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[17:31] <chisight> i got no response from anyone, including you when the other guy popped up. anyway, nevermind. starting this image over.
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[18:02] <darsie> Can any of the P1 ground pins carry the full supply current?
[18:03] <darsie> Or should I better use two?
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[18:03] <darsie> Or the one next to the 5 V pins?
[18:03] <darsie> They have such small traces to the ground plane.
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[18:06] <mfa298> chances are you can't see most of the ground plane. I think the standard for a multiplayer board is to have most of one layer being ground and most of another layer being you're primary voltage supply (so probably 3v3 on the Pi) - of course as no PCB files are published that's meer speculation
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[18:16] <Unicorn437> Hello there, I'm trying to get my RaspberryPi3 to run the musicbox, but from what I'm reading in the logs its having trouble connecting to the wifi, which is using IPv4, while the Pi is attempting to use v6
[18:17] <Unicorn437> Do I have to change a setting for it to use IPv4, or is there a different solution?
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[18:23] <akk> I added a stanza in /etc/network/interfaces to set up static IP on a usb0 network interface, which works fine
[18:24] <akk> except it looks like it disabled the normal wpa-supplicant configuration for wlan0.
[18:24] <akk> I'd like to have both wlan0 and usb0 configured.
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[18:25] <akk> Should I be configuring usb0's static IP through wpa-supplicant? Or putting something in interfaces telling it to use wpa-supplicant for wlan0?
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[18:25] <Lartza> akk, dhcpcd, wpa-supplicant is just a pawn
[18:26] <Lartza> You are basically mixing two network configuration methods and that's why your stuff is breaking
[18:26] <shauno> Unicorn437: most likely ipv6 is a red herring. the question isn't why ipv6 is working, it's why dhcp (on ipv4) isn't
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[18:27] <akk> I guess if I want to keep wpa-supplicant's auto network detection, then, the answer is to add a wpa_supplicant.conf entry to configure usb0 with static ip?
[18:27] <Lartza> Did you read at all what I wrote?
[18:27] <Lartza> wpa-supplicant is for wifi
[18:28] <akk> Yes, and I'd like to keep using it for wifi -- its network detection has been working well for me.
[18:28] <akk> The question is how I can add usb0.
[18:28] <Lartza> Again, dhcpcd
[18:28] <Lartza> Stop using /etc/network/interfaces
[18:28] <Lartza> I mean you can stop using dhcpcd too but that's the default
[18:29] <akk> Okay, I see. I'll read up on how to configure dhcpd directly.
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[18:29] <mfa298> Unicorn437: The Pi is dual stack, meaning it will use both IPv4 and IPv6 if they're present (same as most other modern operating systems). If it's not getting an IPv4 address it's probably not getting a response from the DHCP server which might mean the network is not connected. You'll often see one IPv6 address (starting fe80 which is just a local address and doesn't mean it's using IPv6 - it's similar to a 169.254 address on windows)
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[18:32] <Unicorn437> hmm, I have an idea on what the issue might be, although the error output on the pi itself is lacking. Do I need to use (") to have a password with spaces, or do other escapes in the settings.ini?
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[18:39] <mfa298> Unicorn437: if that's in wpa_supplicant then you might need something around the password if it's got spaces. Google will know the answer (not something I've needed to lookup) but at a guess try " around the password
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[18:40] <akk> Thanks, Lartza, configuring dhcpcd.conf worked great.
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[18:40] <Unicorn437> Tried that, sadly didn't change anything. I even escaped the special characters using \
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[18:40] <akk> (It only took that long because I didn't realize that rebooting the Pi reset the network on my linux box and I had to re-ifconfig on this end.)
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[18:42] <primit1v3> I have a camera question
[18:43] <primit1v3> I want to set up 2 IP cameras with no motion
[18:43] <primit1v3> would MotionOS still be my choice or is there a better image I should use
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[18:43] <Lartza> akk, Don't use ifconfig
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[18:45] <akk> Lartza: Sorry, I'm old. :) ip is the replacement I should be using, right?
[18:46] <Lartza> Yup!
[18:46] <Lartza> :)
[18:46] <Lartza> I used ifconfig for a while until I got used to it too
[18:46] <akk> I keep meaning to learn ip syntax but ifconfig keeps working so I've been lazy about it. Okay, I'll look it up right now.
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[18:46] <Lartza> Yeah I am not sure how ifconfig is broken but it is in some scenarios
[18:46] <Lartza> and is definitely deprecated even if not broken
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[18:50] <shauno> I don't think that's gonna change until distros pluck up the guts to stop including it
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[18:51] <akk> Yeah, since ifconfig still works fine, it's hard to get motivated as long as it's still available everywhere.
[18:51] * akk is building up a cheatsheet of recipes now
[18:52] <mfa298> the one thing I've seen where ifconfig doesn't give the full picture is if you have multiple IPv4 addresses on an interface without using alias interfaces (eth0:1 etc)
[18:52] <mfa298> "ifconfig" only shows one ip, "ip a" will show them all
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[19:01] <Habbie> akk, i run into boxes without ifconfig (but with ip) more and more so distros appear to be doing it somewhat
[19:01] <CoJaBo> rip in peace, ifconfig
[19:02] <akk> Interesting. I knew it would happen eventually.
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[19:05] <Habbie> akk, example: the official debian 9 docker image
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[19:05] <akk> If I do "ip a add 192.168.7.1/24 dev enp0s26u1u1", can I mark it as up in the same line, like I could with ifconfig?
[19:05] <akk> Or do I have to do a separate "ip link set dev enp0s26u1u1 up" command?
[19:05] <Habbie> akk, you mean mark en0p* up?
[19:06] <Habbie> akk, ok
[19:06] <Habbie> akk, my guess would be no but i'm not a great source
[19:06] <akk> In ifconfig I could do it all at once, ifconfig enp0s26u1u1 192.168.7.1 up
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[19:07] <Habbie> well that's not 'add'
[19:07] <Habbie> but i get it
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[19:07] <akk> I'll use ip in the howto I'm writing, but I'll probably keep using ifconfig as long as I can, because it's a lot less typing
[19:07] <akk> and its output is cleaner (fits in 80 columns).
[19:07] <Habbie> i use ifconfig a lot
[19:07] <Habbie> i think it's fine as long as you know what you might be missing
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[19:07] <Habbie> also my desktop doesn't have "ip"
[19:07] <akk> But it's good to have the impetus to write my cheatsheet so I can use ip when I need to.
[19:08] <Habbie> i did install an 'ip' wrapper but it's not great
[19:08] <akk> Some day I need to rewrite my python netutils module to use ip instead of ifconfig, but that's a bigger job.
[19:08] <Habbie> shouldn't it use netlink?
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[19:09] <akk> I didn't know about netlink. Maybe it should!
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[19:09] <Habbie> you should have a look at https://github.com/svinota/pyroute2
[19:09] <akk> It would sure be nice to have an alternative to parsing output from commands.
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[19:10] <akk> Thanks, I will read up.
[19:10] <Habbie> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/netutils-linux/ is yours?
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[19:11] <Habbie> https://github.com/akkana/netutils
[19:11] <akk> yes, that's mine
[19:11] <akk> the second one
[19:11] <Habbie> perhaps you should see if you don't want to become a wrapper around pyroute2
[19:11] <Habbie> and let all the magic live there
[19:12] <akk> If pyroute2 works for all the networks I use, I'd be happy to ditch most of my code and use someone else's.
[19:12] <Habbie> sure, i was assuming there's a body of code out there relying on your netutils calling conventions
[19:12] <Habbie> if not, skip the middle (wo)man
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[19:12] <akk> Actually I doubt if anyone but me uses my netutils library.
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[19:13] <Habbie> i have often found that breaking things is the only way to discover
[19:13] <Habbie> and it brings out the ugly side in people
[19:13] <akk> heh, yeah
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[19:13] <akk> It doesn't have a lot of stars or followers in github, so I don't think it's particularly popular.
[19:13] <Habbie> it's not on pypi?
[19:14] <akk> No, I wasn't confident that it would work everywhere since it relies on ifconfig/ifup/etc. and parsing their output.
[19:15] <akk> It has worked pretty reliably for me for 10 years or so (with occasional tweaks as command output changes) but it might break on other distros etc.
[19:15] <Habbie> uhuh
[19:15] <Habbie> and people might expect that as you call the tools, you're portable beyond linux
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[19:15] <Habbie> which also doesn't appear to have been the goal
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[19:15] <akk> no, this module is very linux specific, not at all cross platform.
[19:16] <akk> For most things I try to be cross platform but I couldn't see any way to do it with this one.
[19:16] <Habbie> to be clear, netlink would take you farther away from that
[19:16] <akk> farther from being cross platform?
[19:16] <Habbie> yes
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[19:16] <Habbie> netlink is the linux kernel interface for all these things
[19:16] <akk> That wouldn't be a problem. But it would be nice to be more solidly cross-distro.
[19:17] <akk> Distros vary so much in how they configure their networks
[19:17] <Habbie> distro or OS?
[19:17] <Habbie> right
[19:17] <akk> distro
[19:17] <Habbie> so i learned about pyroute2 via https://github.com/ypconfig/ypconfig which a friend of mine wrote
[19:17] <Habbie> which as i hear it may also interest you
[19:17] <akk> e.g. debian used to have super solid /etc/network/interfaces but then that went out of fashion and wasn't always as reliable
[19:17] <Habbie> out of fashion because systemd?
[19:17] <akk> and raspbian of course has its wpa/dhcpcd setup
[19:17] <Habbie> i still use /etc/network/interfaces
[19:17] <Habbie> well raspbian is a mistake
[19:17] <akk> No, it happened before systemd.
[19:18] <Habbie> raspbian should never have shipped a thing that ignored /etc/network/interfaces until you edited another file or removed dhcpcd, i feel
[19:18] <akk> Actually I think it was on ubuntu where it stopped working first, and I think now it works again on debian
[19:18] <akk> but for a while they both made some NetworkManager-related changes that made /etc/network/interfaces much less reliable.
[19:18] <Habbie> ah
[19:19] <Habbie> that sounds like it would mostly apply to desktops
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[19:19] <Habbie> but, i don't admin a lot of servers either
[19:19] <akk> Even if you didn't have NetworkManager installed (I always uninstall it) there were other changes under the hood that assumed it was there.
[19:19] <Habbie> fun
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[19:20] <akk> But ifup/ifdown didn't work reliably either, so for a while I was constantly bouncing back and forth between that and interfaces.
[19:20] <akk> Fortunately things eventually settled down.
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[19:21] <Habbie> i have a habit of just rebooting for changes
[19:21] <Habbie> the benefits of not running production for anyone but myself :)
[19:21] <akk> Rebooting wouldn't have helped -- the issue (the reason I have this package) is to set up different network schemes
[19:22] <Habbie> what do schemes mean here?
[19:22] <akk> so I can run "netscheme library" when I'm at the library and want to use their wi-fi
[19:22] <Habbie> ah!
[19:22] <Habbie> that typicaly sounds like the kind of thing NetworkManager was made to solve
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[19:22] <Habbie> *typically
[19:22] <akk> yes, but NetworkManager has never worked reliably for me -- it's written assuming you're running something like a gnome desktop
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[19:23] <Habbie> i bet
[19:23] <akk> and there is a cli client now (there wasn't for years) but even that never worked right for me.
[19:23] <Habbie> nm-cli
[19:23] <Habbie> i've used it after a coworker carefully prepared things for me
[19:23] <Habbie> worked that time
[19:23] <akk> I have sometimes had success with wikd but it wasn't super reliable either
[19:23] <akk> not that my schemes are perfect either, but they actually work more reliably for me than either of those two.
[19:23] <Habbie> hehe
[19:24] <akk> I do have to admit that the raspbian wpa-supplicant thing seems to work remarkably well.
[19:24] <Habbie> well done specific stuff often beats generic stuff
[19:24] <akk> But of course that's new, it wasn't around for 90% of the time I've been using my schemes.
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[19:33] <mfa298> akk: reading some of the scrollback, I think a lot of internals like that will be different between all OSes so trying to make cross platform in an easy way is hard - even the output of ifconfig can vary between different oses.
[19:33] <Habbie> uhuh
[19:33] * will[c] is now known as willc
[19:33] <Habbie> it is hard
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[19:33] <akk> mfa298: Yes, very true.
[19:33] <Habbie> if you want this pretty soon you end up using quagga or bird or whatever
[19:33] <Habbie> because they have it
[19:34] <akk> That netlink interface looks like it might be a lot more standard, though, so I'm looking forward to reading about that.
[19:34] <mfa298> the way to do it (if you want to become cross platform) is to have a standard interface for users, and then call relevant functions in relevant libraries per OS (so netlink on Linux - possibly something like powershell or winsock on windows)
[19:34] <Habbie> last time i did windows, wmi was a great way
[19:34] <akk> (standard across distros, not across OSes)
[19:34] <Habbie> but they've been neutering it
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[19:36] <mfa298> I've not really done that level on windows so that was guessing, I was forgetting about wmi (think I've only come accross it a couple of times)
[19:37] <mfa298> aiui netlink is the kernel interface for twiddling the various knobs, so it's what the likes of ifconfig, ip, route etc. talk to.
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[19:37] <mfa298> but as the netlink interfaces have changed i dont think the older tools (ifconfig) have necessarily kept up so what they can do is limited now.
[19:37] <Habbie> indeed
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[19:38] <akk> Off to a meeting, nice chatting, thanks again for the help.
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[19:42] <Habbie> akk, ok, have a great rest of day!
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[20:55] <wescotte> I have a damaged SDCard that is preventing my pi from booting. I setup a new card but I want to attempt to recover some of the data off the old card. However, it appears the the data is in images/myOSName.img192 How do I extract this file so I can attempt to recover some of the data?
[20:55] <Habbie> wescotte, that's a very specific name, did some recovery tool invent that?
[20:56] <wescotte> Heh, no.. It's really "Debian_Jessie_Raspbian_2017.06.img192" I just have multiples and didn't want to type out a specific one
[20:57] <wescotte> I just need to know how to extract or mount those images to access the file system
[20:57] <Habbie> oh so that's an image of your SD?
[20:57] <jacekowski> losetup probably
[20:57] <Habbie> that or kpartx
[20:57] <wescotte> Yes, using Noobs.
[20:57] <Habbie> with some assumptions
[20:57] <Habbie> oh noobs
[20:57] <Habbie> then that file probably is the vanilla base system
[20:57] <Habbie> without your data
[20:57] <Habbie> and you want the other partition
[20:58] <Habbie> from what i recall from looking at noobs 2-3 years ago
[20:58] <Habbie> so i could be wrong
[20:59] <wescotte> I have the linux partition mounted (off the SDCard) I just can't seem to find the file system for any of the Noobs operating systems
[21:00] <Habbie> as i recall noobs, there will only be a file system for one of them
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[21:01] <Habbie> or a partition, at least
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[21:04] <wescotte> I only see two partition on the SDCard.. a 128m W95 (assuming this is Noobs) and a linux partition for the ramining space on the card. I mount the linux partition and it has a images/ folder and a tmp/ folder.. (and a lost+found but assume that's just random junk it was attempting to recover from running fsck)
[21:04] <Habbie> now i wonder if noobs runs from image files these days :)
[21:04] <wescotte> the images/ folder has my operating systems listed as I described.. I don't see any other data on it.
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[21:04] <wescotte> I think it has to because I don't see anything else
[21:05] <Habbie> anyway, to mount that file, losetup as jacekowski mentioned
[21:05] <wescotte> but just don't know how to extract the image
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[21:11] <wescotte> jacekowski, getting a "failed to use device: No such device" is there any other args I'm suppose to be passing?
[21:12] <Habbie> what args did you pass?
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[21:13] <wescotte> None... I'm not really sure how losetup works.. I'm used to mount where you specify the type of filesystem where it's located and where you want ot mount it to. However, losetup doesn't seem to have a similar set of paramaters
[21:13] <Habbie> losetup turns a file into a device when used right
[21:13] <Habbie> then you can mount it
[21:15] <wescotte> ok.. so just sudo losetup /path/to/imgfile creates a /dev/loop## which I can then mount as normal?
[21:15] <Habbie> i haven't read the man page recently
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[21:20] <wescotte> mount -o loop /path/image.file.img192 /mount/path did the trick
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[21:21] <Habbie> cool
[21:21] <Habbie> any luck with your data?
[21:21] <wescotte> Not sure yet.. I jsut need a few random .conf files really so I think I'll be okay
[21:21] <Habbie> that helps
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[21:23] <wescotte> my /etc folder seems intact so I think I'm good :)
[21:23] <Habbie> yay!
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[21:23] <wescotte> just wanted my samba configs as it always seems to take me ages to figure out how to get it up and running from scratch :)
[21:24] <Habbie> that i get :)
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[21:29] <wescotte> Thanks for all the help guys!
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[21:32] <Encrypt> Hello!
[21:32] <Encrypt> Has anyone here bought this screen: https://www.amazon.fr/tactile-interface-capacitif-Monitor-Raspberry/dp/B071R2LMPH/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 ?
[21:33] <wescotte> I don't think that's all my data... I don't see the conf files I'm looking for they just appear to be the default one
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[21:33] <Unicorn437> so I've got the pi musicbox working, but somehow when I search for something on spotify it returns no results
[21:34] <Unicorn437> I have the ID set up as well as the web tokens
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[21:37] <wescotte> I don't see my Plex database either.... I'm confused where the heck the data is stored then
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[21:40] <wescotte> ah okay.. It is.. it's just the data was lost and anything recovered was in /lost+found...
[21:40] <wescotte> recovered my smb.conf at least :)
[21:40] <Habbie> yay
[21:40] <Habbie> nameless i bet
[21:41] <Habbie> lost+found is ancient unix lore for 'there goes your evening'
[21:41] <wescotte> Surprisely the name was there
[21:41] <Habbie> :)
[21:41] <Habbie> oh nice
[21:41] <H4ndy> Unicorn437: do you have Spotify Premium subscription?
[21:41] <wescotte> but I just really needed like 4 lines. I could grep for a specific line of text with a unique path
[21:41] <Habbie> that helps
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[21:44] <zleap> hi mschorm
[21:46] <Unicorn437> I do have a premium subscriptio
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[21:47] <Unicorn437> @H4ndy,
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[21:52] <H4ndy> Unicorn437: than ti should work in principle, not sure about the details then as I do not have the setup myself
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[22:08] <Unicorn437> Appears that it didn't like my password, working now that I'm using a facebook app specific password
[22:08] <Unicorn437> Ty for effort anyways
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[23:11] * Kyros (~kyros@51.15.204.32) has left #raspberrypi
[23:12] * belmoussaoui (~belmoussa@2a02:a03f:3e2d:1900:2c94:786c:18f:2ea) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] * reds (~reds@212.87.244.98) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:13] * GyroW (~GyroW@ptr-47bydjojo7idzi5otjc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:13] * MacGeek (~BSD@host141-179-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:14] * MacGeek (~BSD@host141-179-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:15] * nietaki_ (~nietaki@cpc73832-dals21-2-0-cust933.20-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: quit)
[23:16] * MacGeek (~BSD@host141-179-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:16] * drewmcmillan (~drewmcmil@drm6.pip.aber.ac.uk) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:17] * GyroW (~GyroW@ptr-47bydjojo7idzi5otjc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:18] * reds (~reds@212.87.244.98) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:23] * MacGeek (~BSD@host141-179-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:23] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@83.202.174.170) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[23:23] * MacGeek (~BSD@host141-179-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:24] * toxync21 (~toxync21@101.64.179.215) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:25] * toxync21 (~toxync21@101.64.179.215) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:25] * davr0s (~textual@host86-159-99-19.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:25] * GyroW (~GyroW@ptr-47bydjojo7idzi5otjc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:25] * rwb (~Thunderbi@65.183.151.121) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:26] * belmoussaoui (~belmoussa@2a02:a03f:3e2d:1900:2c94:786c:18f:2ea) Quit (Quit: belmoussaoui)
[23:29] * greggerz (~greggerz@unaffiliated/greggerz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:30] * GyroW (~GyroW@ptr-47bydjojo7idzi5otjc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:32] * belmoussaoui (~belmoussa@2a02:a03f:3e2d:1900:2c94:786c:18f:2ea) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:34] * TheSin (~TheSin@gateway.bluefalls.ca) Quit (Quit: Client exiting)
[23:34] * cave (~various@h081217094041.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[23:35] * Snircle (~textual@ip68-6-211-19.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:36] * nietaki_ (~nietaki@cpc73832-dals21-2-0-cust933.20-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:40] * GyroW (~GyroW@ptr-47bydjojo7idzi5otjc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:41] * harmlessgryphon (~default@d47-69-199-50.col.wideopenwest.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:42] * Case77 (~Case77@pool-108-44-22-7.albyny.east.verizon.net) has left #raspberrypi
[23:42] * uriah (~uriahheep@unaffiliated/uriahheep) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:42] * redstarcomrade (~quassel@cpe-104-175-255-182.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:43] * GyroW (~GyroW@ptr-47bydjojo7idzi5otjc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:44] * tommy`` (UPP@host78-71-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:48] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:48] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:49] * tommy`` (UPP@host78-71-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:49] * tommy`` (UPP@host78-71-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:50] * djk (~Thunderbi@198.140.183.19) Quit (Quit: djk)
[23:51] * GyroW (~GyroW@ptr-47bydjojo7idzi5otjc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:51] * [Butch] (~butch@169.145.89.203) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[23:53] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:53] * tommy`` (UPP@host78-71-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:53] * tommy`` (UPP@host78-71-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:54] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:55] * GyroW (~GyroW@ptr-47bydjojo7idzi5otjc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:57] * tommy`` (UPP@host78-71-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[23:58] * tommy`` (UPP@host78-71-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.