#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2018-04-15

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[1:18] <Voop> ebarch: yeah but i need a gui for a particular thing im doing
[1:18] <red_pandabear> test
[1:18] <ebarch> i was just kidding :P
[1:18] <Voop> wish there was a way to run a gui thing temperarily in cli-only
[1:19] * Silversword (silverswor@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:19] <red_pandabear> hexchat on rpi runs nicely i must say
[1:20] * Silversword (silverswor@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:20] <Voop> ive ran hexchat on a pi with a 2g (4kbps) internet connection
[1:20] <red_pandabear> Woah
[1:20] <Voop> irc doesnt require a lot
[1:21] <red_pandabear> I'm currently using an rpi as my main :P
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[1:26] <GenteelBen> Your main what?
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[1:27] <red_pandabear> Computer
[1:27] <GenteelBen> You absolute madman.
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[1:27] <red_pandabear> I was gonna get a NUC but naw that shit expensive
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[1:30] <GenteelBen> NUC prices are too damn high!
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[1:30] <GenteelBen> Also their TDPs are too damn high!
[1:30] <GenteelBen> I want a modern single board computer, but they don't exist.
[1:30] <GenteelBen> So the choice is either an RPi, a NUC, or a mini-ITX whitebox.
[1:31] <red_pandabear> The vega nuc is tempting, but holy mother of pricing
[1:31] <GenteelBen> u want dat nucc
[1:31] <red_pandabear> i have a mitx build but the fan noise annoys me :P
[1:31] * genr8__ (~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:31] <GenteelBen> Mini ITX can easily be silent, assuming you underclock/undervolt.
[1:32] <GenteelBen> Low-TDP CPUs are a scam, unless they drop below 35W.
[1:32] <red_pandabear> It's got a ryzen apu
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[1:33] <red_pandabear> I'm very happy with the rpi though, it sort of does what i need it to do, and it's all silent
[1:33] <dogbert_2> anyone got a recommendation for a KVM for a wireless keyboard and mouse for a desktop PC and a RPi or Clone?
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[1:35] <Tex_Nick> red_pandabear: LOL @ "sort of does", that's the nature of technology, it does great stuff for us, but never everything we want ;-)
[1:36] <red_pandabear> Yep Tex_Nick There are compromises, but it's not too bad.. It's done mostly everything but play videos nicely
[1:36] <red_pandabear> It behaves if i use kodi, but i want VLC to work
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[1:36] <Tex_Nick> yeah Ha
[1:39] <GenteelBen> red_pandabearq: a Ryzen APU, or an Intel+AMD combo CPU+GPU?
[1:39] <ali1234> what is the lowest TDP intel CPU that you can put in a socket? all the really low TDP stuff seems to be only available soldered to a motherboard - which doesn't fit standard heat sinks
[1:39] <GenteelBen> The Intel part isn't actually integrated graphics - the Vega core + 4GB of HMB2 is on-die and connected to the CPU via a PCIe link.
[1:39] <red_pandabear> Ryzen 5 2400G, Vega Graphics
[1:39] <GenteelBen> ali1234: probably 35W these days, let me check. Their 15W parts are all BGA, that much I know.
[1:40] <ali1234> that's pretty much what i found too
[1:40] <ali1234> i guess underclocking would work though. probably those 15W ones are just underclocked and locked
[1:40] <GenteelBen> Lowest seems to be 35W, ali1234.
[1:41] <GenteelBen> The 15W ones can sometimes have a cTDP of like 20W I think?
[1:41] <GenteelBen> It's a configurable TDP, goes up and down depending on what the laptop maker wants.
[1:41] <ali1234> makes sense. i'm looking at mITX board with integrated CPUs though
[1:42] <Tex_Nick> red_pandabear: i'm using a 3B as a psudo-NAS & it will stream a 1080p video to another LAN box jusy fine, but as you day, it won't play the videos well at all
[1:42] <ali1234> vs mITX with a socket
[1:42] <ali1234> for a fanless and small build
[1:42] <GenteelBen> For low-TDP, the surest bet is to buy a G4900T @ 35W. Dual-core, 2.9GHz.
[1:42] <GenteelBen> It's not unlocked, so you can't underclock it.
[1:42] <ali1234> huh, they don't even let you underclock?
[1:42] <red_pandabear> Tex_Nick, it does well in kodi though.. but i can't multitask with that running :P
[1:43] <ali1234> i didn't know that
[1:44] <GenteelBen> The G4900T has a cDTP of 25W too, so an OEM can ship it underclocked/undervolted.
[1:44] <GenteelBen> You could check to see if the board supports configurable TDP.
[1:45] <ali1234> good to know, thanks
[1:45] <Tex_Nick> red_pandabear: ahhh cool i haven't load up kodi ... i've just never really liked xbmc/kodi or plex, kinda too much eye-candy for me
[1:45] <GenteelBen> That being said, single-board computers aren't socketed...so you could just buy a mobile-based "mini desktop".
[1:45] <GenteelBen> Tex_Nick: Kodi is good except for the name.
[1:45] <red_pandabear> Tex_Nick, yeah i agree, it's way too home theatre-y for me.. I like VLC :D
[1:45] <ali1234> i want to use a PCIe tuner card
[1:45] <Tex_Nick> GenteelBen: LOL ;-)
[1:46] <ali1234> it's low profile, but obviously it needs a slot and room in the case, so NUC is out
[1:46] <ali1234> https://www.tbsdtv.com/products/tbs6205_dvb_t2_quad_tuner_pcie_card.html
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[1:48] <GenteelBen> Honestly I'd recommend a dedicated TV set-top box.
[1:48] <GenteelBen> A PC just won't be as reliable.
[1:48] <ali1234> it's not for TV, it's a dedicated recorder
[1:48] <ali1234> + playback to LAN
[1:49] <red9> The Pi Zero schematic https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/schematics/rpi_SCH_ZeroW_1p1_reduced.pdf says it uses PAM2306AYPKE that specify https://www.mouser.se/datasheet/2/115/PAM2306-336770.pdf a maximum of 1.000 A. And Wikipedia says 1.75 W during stress all most likely used at 3.3 V. So there should be 1.000-1.75/3.3 =
[1:49] <ali1234> i'm using a raspi for it right now, but it's not quite fast enough - and mythtv has problems with ARM
[1:49] <red9> 0.470 A @ 3.3V available to be used on the Pi Zero GPIO pin header?
[1:50] <ali1234> also i want to record more channels than can practically be done over USB
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[1:50] <red9> ali1234, surverillence?
[1:50] <ali1234> no, just recording TV
[1:51] <BurtyB> red9, it would prob depend on the inductor rating and caps too
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[1:53] <ali1234> i might also put kodi on it for local playback, but that isn't critical
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[1:55] <red9> BurtyB, This https://raspberrypise.tumblr.com/post/144555785379/exploring-the-33v-power-rail guy seems to have found that 800 mA can be used at the 3.3 V rail.
[1:56] <red9> Raspberry Pi B+ with buck converter Richtek RT8020. But it seems Pi Zeros all use 1A rated converters.
[1:59] <red9> A question, Are "capture timers" (TIM) available on the BCM chip?
[1:59] <red9> in..
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[1:59] <ali1234> i don't think so
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[2:04] <red9> Anything similar?
[2:04] <ali1234> assuming you mean a counter that starts/stops based on a gpio pin level/interrupt... you'd probably have to do it in software
[2:04] <red9> It seems STM32-ARM does externally triggered DMA transfers by (ab)using TIM capture timers.
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[2:05] <red9> ali1234, No they work different in this case. But can work as you said.
[2:05] <ali1234> don't know then
[2:05] <ali1234> i'm thinking timer/counter from AVR
[2:05] <ali1234> so i'd just use an AVR or similar, on i2c
[2:06] <red9> Instead, upon a flank edge a register will copy the number from a free running counter to itself. And then it will trigger a IRQ or DMA transfer of one word.
[2:07] <ali1234> k, that's basically a timer counter except for the DMA stuff... AVR doesn't have DMA
[2:07] <ali1234> so... i dunno
[2:07] <red9> So the DMA is setup with perip->memory. But instead of specifying the capture register address. The GPIO port is specified => check mate (against the design) ;)
[2:08] <ali1234> what's it used for?
[2:09] <red9> Actually it's possible to record whenever a signal goes 0->1 and get a timestamp and.. have it transferred with DMA to memory.
[2:09] * ConkyAxis (~ConkyAxis@cpc82865-enfi22-2-0-cust482.20-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[2:09] <ali1234> yes that's the intended purpose, but this other thing you just described?
[2:09] <red9> Perfect to record magnetic media recorded in any format whatsoever..
[2:09] <ali1234> DMA from an external clocked ADC maybe?
[2:09] <red9> yes
[2:10] <ali1234> te only thing the Pi has that's remotely similar is the SMI interface
[2:10] <red9> So the STM32 designer envisioned that users shall specify the register of the GPIO port instead of the counter-capture register. The counters (TIM) won't mind being overflowed..
[2:11] <red9> SMI? I2C thing?
[2:11] <ali1234> SMI is shared memory interface, or maybe simple memory interface
[2:11] <ali1234> basically, it is parallel address, data, read, write etc
[2:12] <ali1234> and it's memory mapped so you can DMA from it directly
[2:12] <ali1234> just need to figure out how to trigger the interrupt
[2:12] <red9> interrupt, not DMA request ?
[2:12] <ali1234> well, figure out how to connect the IRQ to the DMA so it works on its own, yes
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[2:13] <ali1234> it may be possible... not much documentation though
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[2:17] <red9> Found SMI driver: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=92233
[2:17] <ali1234> yeah i was just reading that too
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[2:24] <red9> useful for pinout: https://pinout.xyz/pinout/pin3_gpio2
[2:24] <ali1234> full pinout https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nUnaWl_veBKlnqsDwPQUYZNKKiIYhf8f8a6e_bd1cKc/edit?usp=sharing
[2:26] <ali1234> i believe that is every function
[2:26] <ali1234> some are completely undocumented
[2:28] <ali1234> AVEIN might be able to do what you want too but it has even less documentation
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[2:32] <red9> I get the urge not too selldom to make a "Pi" that featuresa documented SoC and a documented GPU..
[2:32] <ali1234> you would have to make that SoC first
[2:33] <red9> Oh and with hardwired Ethernet-MAC, with option for dual connections.
[2:33] <ali1234> maybe just get a FPGA?
[2:33] * red_pandabear (~red_panda@2a01:79d:3e81:94bc:3bd1:3cea:540a:6b60) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:33] <red9> it's an option..
[2:33] <ali1234> https://www.fleasystems.com/fleaFPGA_Ohm.html
[2:33] <ali1234> you missed the kickstarter though
[2:33] <red9> But ASIC uses way less power. And can be clocked faster. So they are different use cases.
[2:34] <ali1234> FPGAs are good for blasting data though :)
[2:34] <red9> yeah!
[2:34] <red9> A/D suck my bits! ;)
[2:34] <dogbert_2> what is everyone using for the initial RPi setup (keyboard, mouse, display), just curious
[2:34] <ali1234> that FPGA can be used as an add of for raspberry pi or stand alone
[2:35] <ali1234> and i have one... but i don't really know how to use it
[2:35] <ebarch> dogbert_2: very few of my Pis have ever had any of those connected to them :P
[2:35] <ebarch> i'm partial to pick up random cheap stuff from goodwill, though
[2:35] <red9> hah.. Amiga 3.x running. Seems that platform will never die;)
[2:36] <dogbert_2> even when setting it up initially?
[2:36] <ebarch> yeah. I just toss the network config and ssh file onto the SD card before I insert it
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[2:36] <ebarch> works great. even for wifi.
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[2:40] <red9> Now if the FleaFPGA can implement Amiga. Can it implement some kind of rudimentary well supported Unix platform?
[2:41] <red9> Such that one can do A/D and networking with ease.
[2:41] <ali1234> if the minimig has MMU support then yes
[2:41] <ebarch> Just implement your OS in gates, why don't ya?
[2:41] <ali1234> cos then it can run linux
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[2:44] <red9> No MMU in Minimig asfaik.
[2:44] <ball> Ah just bung CP/M on it.
[2:44] <ball> brb
[2:44] <red9> I would implement BSD though :p
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[2:45] <ali1234> i think the developer is going to make a high speed ADC add on for it
[2:45] <ball> BSD needs a PMMU too, at least since 3BSD
[2:45] <red9> What makes me wonder the basic premise is "24kLUT elements". It might simply be too few.
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[2:47] <ali1234> yes, quite possibly
[2:48] <red9> Amiga 1200 wich has a 68020 with the option of a external MMU can do Unix.
[2:48] <red9> NetBSD is supported for it.
[2:49] <red9> +on it
[2:49] <ali1234> probably would be easier to just make it a USB peripheral
[2:52] <red9> USB is incredible limited.
[2:52] <red9> And messy.
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[2:52] <red9> Btw on bit-banging: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52393
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[2:53] <red9> A) disable interrupts .. In / Out B) use DMA
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[2:55] <red9> Btw, the SMI interface looks like some ISA-bus alike thing.
[2:55] <red9> It ought to be possible to DMA from it by making the A/D appear at any address.
[2:56] <ali1234> right, exactly
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[2:56] <ali1234> you just need to figure out how to make DMA fire from an external interrupt, which may or may not be possible
[2:58] <ball> red9: We also run the 68020 on mvme68k and sun3. Think both of those have the optional PMMU chip though
[2:59] <ball> 68851, apparently.
[3:00] <red9> Sun(R) used some special MMU design of their own in the beginnign asfaik.
[3:00] <ball> Perhaps they did that on sun2
[3:01] <red9> ali1234, I think wiring the OE to the A/D access pin and ignoring the address pins should do it.
[3:01] <ali1234> quite possibly yes
[3:02] <red9> As for triggering. Shouldn't it be enough to .. "ohh I want to read this 64M x 65536 of data .. DMA kernel call now" ?
[3:02] <ali1234> i guess it would, yes
[3:02] <ali1234> if you get it working i would be extremely interested :)
[3:03] <red9> It should involve using the SMI driver for external "RAM" and wiring the A/D as specified above.
[3:04] <red9> And then dd if=/dev/smi.. bs=65536 of=all_my_adc_data.bin
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[3:06] <red9> But the SMI interface have some unclearities in regards how those pins are used. Contradictory and ambigious names. SO more documentation or a actual working circuit would help.
[3:06] <ali1234> or hook up a logic analyzer and poke registers :)
[3:06] <red9> What modes does the SMI driver support?
[3:07] <ali1234> i have no idea
[3:07] <ali1234> it is designed for an external NAND chip
[3:07] <ali1234> so probably not more than that
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[3:11] <Brometheus> anyone know if i can use a usb stick to load the OS?
[3:11] <Brometheus> i mean to run the PI
[3:12] <ali1234> on Pi 3 and 3+ yes
[3:12] <ali1234> on the others it is complicated
[3:13] * Budgii (~Budgii@unaffiliated/budgii) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:14] * davr0s (~textual@host81-153-180-15.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[3:15] <red9> Any schematic of such external NAND chip?
[3:15] * BeamWatcher (~gashead76@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[3:15] * akk (~akkana@ Quit (Quit: +++)
[3:15] <ali1234> no but it shouldnt be hard to figure out
[3:16] * BitEvil is now known as speedevil
[3:17] * speedevil is now known as SpeedEvil
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[3:18] <red9> I think that is key.
[3:18] <ali1234> http://www.seekic.com/uploadfile/ic-data/200914202546140.jpg
[3:18] <red9> Then just make "fake NAND" which is essentially a A/D..
[3:18] <ali1234> that even has 18 address lines, just like the interface
[3:19] * badfitz (97e6a621@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[3:20] <red9> Is there any peripherial that uses the SMI mode?
[3:20] <red9> and which one..
[3:20] <ali1234> not that i know of
[3:20] <badfitz> Hello! I'm having trouble getting some logitech usb speakers to work on my raspberry pi 3 model B+. I'm using the OSMC/Kodi Operating System and I'm not certain on how to set up the speakers.
[3:20] * davr0s (~textual@host81-153-180-15.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:20] <badfitz> Setting the audio output device to any of the choices with 'USB' in it doesn't work
[3:20] * davr0s (~textual@host81-153-180-15.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[3:21] <red9> I get the feeling the Raspberry foundation kind of withholds important documentation..
[3:21] <ali1234> all the time :)
[3:22] <badfitz> I can control the raspberry pi via SSH with Putty so I do have some command line access (if that even lets me do anything in Kodi)
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[3:27] <ball> red9: I think they release what they can.
[3:27] <ball> red9: ...there will be some limitations put in place by Broadcom
[3:28] * puff (~user@c-24-3-112-94.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[3:29] <ali1234> i wonder if i have any 3.3v sram
[3:29] <dogbert_2> hey ball
[3:29] <ali1234> or maybe an old video card boot rom would work
[3:30] <red9> sram to do waht?
[3:30] <ali1234> hook to SMI
[3:30] <red9> ah
[3:31] <red9> hook a EPROM instead. Then you can concentrate on the readin operation.
[3:31] * noobineer (~noobineer@c-68-55-184-193.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[3:32] <red9> Anyway BCM pin 6 - SOE => Output enable (I think..)
[3:32] <ali1234> if you hook up sram it should just be memory mapped. reading/writing should store the values
[3:32] <ali1234> no chip and it will forget the values
[3:32] <ali1234> or just lock up, i dunno
[3:32] <red9> ie NAND --> Pi
[3:33] <red9> pin 7 - SWE => Write enable (Pi --> NAND)
[3:34] * genr8__ (~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:34] <red9> Catch pin 34-35 also defines SOE and SWE. So which is it..? ;)
[3:34] <ali1234> both
[3:34] <ali1234> depends how you configure the gpio functions
[3:34] * genr8___ (~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:35] <red9> pin 8-15 defines SD0-SD7 but so is 36-43
[3:35] * badfitz (97e6a621@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[3:36] <ali1234> you cant access 36-43 cos they are not on the header
[3:36] <ali1234> only the yellow ones are on the header
[3:36] <red9> SA0-SA5 double defined and also only defining 64 positions. Not many addresses ;)
[3:37] <red9> that simplifies matters ;)
[3:37] * genr8_ (~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[3:38] <red9> So then it remains as to how SA0 - SA5 is used. And the same applies to SD0 - SD17.
[3:38] * nephilum (~aw17@ has joined #raspberrypi
[3:39] * genr8__ (~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[3:39] <ali1234> whatever offset into the memory window you read/write from is what gets dialed up on the address lines
[3:39] <ali1234> and the data lines are whatever you read/write
[3:39] <red9> Because 64 addresses with 18 bits of data equals to 144 bytes.. ;)
[3:39] <ali1234> yeah but you won't use the address lines
[3:41] <red9> So how is the device accessed?
[3:41] <ali1234> got to look at the driver for that
[3:42] <red9> Not necessarily there. The magic can be in hardware logic. Kind of like finding the driver for DDR dram ..
[3:43] <ball> hello dogbert_2!
[3:44] * Sonar_Guy (~Who@fedora/sonarguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[3:44] <dogbert_2> w00t...the Libre Computer Le Potato running Armbian is alive :)
[3:45] * phoenixbyrd (~phoenixby@2601:189:4201:9b4d::4a9e) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[3:45] <red9> btw, Do you know what the TE/FL pins in beige colour is for?
[3:45] * Sonar_Guy (~Who@fedora/sonarguy) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:46] <ali1234> i assume TE is test
[3:46] <ali1234> check the tool tip for a link to the matching register definitions
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[3:53] <dogbert_2> just need to put the Libre Computer into it's case, and plug the power adapter into the UPS :)
[3:53] <ball> join ##mac
[3:53] <ball> oops
[3:54] <dogbert_2> LOL
[3:54] * noobineer (~noobineer@184-215-35-214.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[3:54] <red9> "The meaning of "FL" is currently unknown." ;-)
[3:54] <dogbert_2> bought a 32GB Patriot MicroSD for $12.99 today
[3:55] <red9> TE seems timer related https://github.com/msperl/rpi-registers/blob/master/md/Region_TE.md
[3:56] * seek^126 (~seek@unaffiliated/seek126/x-5422560) Quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
[3:56] * Anthaas (~Anthaas@unaffiliated/anthaas) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[3:57] <dogbert_2> heh: Debian Logo Apache2 Debian Default Page
[3:58] * m92 (~m92@93-86-82-211.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[3:58] <red9> AVEIN = seems to be video INPUT port ..
[3:59] <red9> Maybe it can be abused as A/D input ;)
[4:00] * Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@unaffiliated/tenkawa) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:05] <ali1234> maybe indeed. seems to be for a 12 it video ADC/DAC, for passthrough video overlay. it's wired into the compositor somehow
[4:05] <red9> Then it's "just" the question of how to activate it ;)
[4:05] <ali1234> yes
[4:06] <ali1234> remember this SoC is for STBs rather than phones
[4:06] <ali1234> all hardware is about graphics/video
[4:06] <red9> And hope it won't blank the signal every 1/60th of a second ;)
[4:08] * Sonar_Guy (~Who@fedora/sonarguy) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[4:08] <ali1234> thats always the problem
[4:08] <red9> I had another idea. The wireless thing on model 3 uses the SD-4-bit interface. Maybe it can be re-used with some SDIO-2-A/D logic?
[4:08] <ali1234> also possible
[4:08] <ali1234> also that interface is on th eheader and its 8 bit
[4:09] <ali1234> my goal btw is ~100MSPS/8 bit sampling full frame composite video
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[4:12] <red9> Not PAL/NTSC video?
[4:12] <ali1234> yes, but i need full continous sampling, SDR style
[4:12] * HanSooloo (~hansooloo@pool-71-120-2-144.washdc.east.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: HanSooloo)
[4:12] <red9> why?
[4:12] <ali1234> so frame grabbers are out (already use one, it sucks)
[4:13] <ali1234> for this https://github.com/ali1234/vhs-teletext
[4:13] <red9> The bandwidth is usually no more than 8 MHz so.. ;)
[4:13] <red9> ah!
[4:13] <red9> Hauppage cards have already that implemented I think.
[4:13] <ali1234> yes they do, i use one, it sucks :)
[4:13] * Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@unaffiliated/tenkawa) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[4:14] <ali1234> horrible jitter, and you dont get the raw sync signals so you can't correct it
[4:14] <red9> So sampling it is ;)
[4:14] * azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:14] <ali1234> there's "SDR mode" for bt878 but like you said it drops the signal every 1/50th second
[4:15] <ali1234> also it no longer compiles and nobody understands it
[4:15] <ali1234> bt878 has a RISC coprocessor and oyu have to write assembly code for it to get it to grab stuff
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[4:18] * jdawgaz (~Jerry@ip70-176-27-239.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:19] <red9> What instruction set?
[4:19] <ali1234> proprietary and undocumented
[4:19] <red9> The blank think is general problem with video stuff (ab)used as generic A/D.
[4:19] <red9> ouch
[4:20] * JasonCL (~JasonCL@cpe-174-109-154-111.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:20] <ali1234> the "normal" driver just copies a blob of code from the windows driver afaik
[4:20] <ali1234> it's only a few bytes long
[4:22] * Singmyr (~singmyr@ Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[4:22] <red9> Anyway if the Pi is 32-bit wide memory and clocked at 900 MHz. 3600 MB/s ought to be the absolute maximum DMA speed.
[4:24] * giddles (~giddles@unaffiliated/giddles) Quit (Quit: gn8)
[4:24] <ali1234> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/media/pci/bt8xx/bttv-driver.c#L3384
[4:24] <ali1234> i guess that's the instruction set
[4:25] * mjolnird (~mjolnird@2601:2c7:8200:5a1::e7ce) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:25] <ali1234> yeah i only need 100MB/sec :)
[4:26] <ali1234> and most of that will be immediately discarded
[4:27] <ali1234> about 95% of it in fact
[4:28] <red9> Btw, SDIO doesn't seem that hard. https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/SDIO101.pdf Page 26
[4:29] <red9> Just wait for the clock and whenever it goes high with CMD==0 then insert the data?
[4:29] <ali1234> the problem with SDIO will be getting the host controller to just blindly stream data
[4:29] <red9> To grab it.. just trigger a "needs loads.. of data". Catch is control over the clock.
[4:30] <red9> square #1 ;)
[4:30] <ali1234> also its only 40mbit i think
[4:30] <red9> Weird that just if( GPIOx goes high ) then { read_and_store(GPIO); } should be so hard...
[4:31] * energizer (~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:31] <red9> And no docs.. Except how to do these crap I2C or SPI things.
[4:31] <ali1234> well, this is not a microcontroller, you know?
[4:31] <red9> it is microcontroller kind of..
[4:31] <ali1234> it's a SoC with a very specific purpose in design
[4:32] <dogbert_2> anyone get the 3B+ yet?
[4:32] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:35] <red9> gordonDrogon has one.
[4:35] <red9> Ask in a few hours when he's likely awak.
[4:35] <red9> e
[4:36] <red9> ali1234, That bttv RISC thing seems interesting. But the platform is kind of obsolete so..
[4:36] <dogbert_2> LOL...
[4:36] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:36] <ali1234> even the format is obsolete
[4:36] <dogbert_2> like the libre computer I just set up a couple of hours ago...etcher makes writing images the cat's ass, IMO
[4:37] <ali1234> but with modern hardware it should be possible to just brute force it without needing RISC tricks to pre-process the data
[4:39] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) Quit (Client Quit)
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[4:40] * sdothum (~znc@ Quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.6 - http://znc.in)
[4:42] <red9> ali1234, time to ask on https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/ ?
[4:42] * zesterer (~zesterer@cpc138506-newt42-2-0-cust207.19-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:42] <ali1234> i've never had a response to any questions i asked there
[4:43] * sdothum (~znc@ has joined #raspberrypi
[4:43] <red9> ie "How do I feed externally clocked 8-bit A/D data into the Pi using DMA at speeds above 100 Msps ?"
[4:44] <ali1234> they will tell you to use STM32 and make a USB device out of it probably. if you are lucky
[4:45] <ali1234> if you are unlucky they'll just give the regular "RPi is for education not... whatever it is you are trying to do"
[4:46] * dr3w_ (~dr3w_@abercs/dr3w) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:47] <red9> "It's for our super educational oscilloscope!" ;)
[4:48] <ali1234> if you question the education value of an undocumented proprietary SoC they'll ban you for trolling
[4:48] <NowhereMan> oh yeah, asking excellent questions WILL get you called a troll
[4:49] <ball> Where's this?
[4:50] <ali1234> they'll warn you first, they're not that bad :)
[4:50] <dogbert_2> ball, managed to build daq/snort on the libre computer...LOL (just wish they made a SBC with two ethernet ports) :)
[4:51] <red9> dogbert_2, Check out OrangePi
[4:52] <red9> ali1234, I would just ask for how to clock the data in..
[4:52] <dogbert_2> red9...yeah, been looking at that...still, having a dedicated snort box for < $50 isn't bad :)
[4:52] <red9> Not the value of undocumented stuff..
[4:52] <ali1234> i think SMI is the best bet for this anyway. it's the most generic interface, but don't expect any more docs than what is already out there
[4:52] * d0rm0us3 peers at dogbert_2
[4:53] <dogbert_2> hey d0rm0us3...
[4:53] * sdothum (~znc@ Quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.6 - http://znc.in)
[4:53] <red9> ali1234, there is one catch with the SMI interface. How do you handle external clock vs S-Output-Enable..
[4:53] <d0rm0us3> You do pop up in the strangest places...
[4:54] <ali1234> make a fifo :)
[4:56] * wgas (~wgas@unaffiliated/wgas) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:57] <red9> ali1234, FPGA seems all the more tempting..
[4:58] <red9> I had it figured out how to make a hard fifo using a single DDR memory. Way faster than any wimpsy Pi.
[4:58] <ali1234> you might find this interesting https://github.com/simoninns/DomesdayDuplicator
[4:59] * stekro (~stekro@x4db15add.dyn.telefonica.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[5:00] <ali1234> and i guess you already know about this https://www.kryoflux.com/
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[5:01] * stekro (~stekro@x590cf103.dyn.telefonica.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:05] <red9> yeah (kryo)
[5:05] <red9> btw, https://superkuh.com/rtlsdr.html 2.56 Msps 8-bit
[5:05] <ali1234> yeah, got one
[5:06] * marlinc (~marlinc@bouncer.cvo-technologies.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[5:06] <ali1234> i even made a full frame grabber for it with gnuradio, but 2.56 msps is not nearly enough for the signals i want
[5:08] * p71 (~chatzilla@71-90-117-89.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[5:09] <red9> What's important to get from old VBI data?
[5:09] * shantorn (shantorn@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/shantorn) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:09] <ali1234> nothing and everything :)
[5:10] * Tex_Nick (TexNixk@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/texnixk) has left #raspberrypi
[5:10] * erm3nda (~erm3nda@193.red-83-53-146.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:10] <ali1234> no single historical artifact is particularly interesting out of context - but en masse you have a huge amount of data
[5:10] * erm3nda (~erm3nda@193.red-83-53-146.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:10] <ali1234> if you are not from europe you might not be familiar with teletext
[5:11] <ali1234> they broadcast a huge amount of news, people's letters, tv listing... everything you'd find on the internet now
[5:12] <ali1234> they even broadcast computer programs for the bbc micro
[5:13] <ali1234> https://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/teletext/bbc1/1983-04-16-0027.3/702.html
[5:13] <ali1234> plus highly ephemeral stuff like this https://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/teletext/bbc1/1985-12-22-0056.1/720.html
[5:14] <red9> I have implemented teletext stuff, so I am indeed familiar with it.
[5:14] <red9> ;)
[5:15] <red9> btw speaking of doomsday disc and thus optical storage. If proper high speed interfaces are had then one could perhaps try something like this: https://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2016/02/5d-data-storage-update.page
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[5:15] <red9> catch: how to position the beam precisely. And how to accomplish a controller femtolaser.
[5:16] <ali1234> more data to archive
[5:16] <ali1234> how can we ever keep up?
[5:16] <red9> even better storage.. ;)
[5:17] <red9> 360 TB in sheet of quartz ought to be cheap.
[5:17] <red9> (per disc9
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[5:18] <red9> re teletext. To bad our TV broadcaster was to braindead to pick up on the thing about sending programs over teletext.
[5:18] * marlinc (~marlinc@bouncer.cvo-technologies.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:18] <red9> But it was handled later on. Modem and servers made them obsolete ;->
[5:19] * genr8___ (~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[5:19] <red9> Some government officials even wanted for forbid satellite dishes and video recorders... doh.
[5:20] <ali1234> eventually even archives become artifacts
[5:20] <ali1234> and then we have to invent new ways to extract the data from them
[5:20] * azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[5:22] <ali1234> teletext lasted was into the modem age
[5:23] <ali1234> it was more convenient than dial up to find out what was on TV for sure
[5:23] * cagmz (~cagmz@cpe-104-172-149-186.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:23] <ali1234> broadband is what killed it tbh
[5:25] <ali1234> anyway i really need to sleep. night
[5:25] <red9> Now online video eats away broadcast TV pieace by pieace.
[5:26] <red9> me too..(tm)
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[5:28] * GenteelBen (~GenteelBe@cpc111801-lutn14-2-0-cust55.9-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit ()
[5:30] * Karyon (~Karyon@unaffiliated/karyon) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:38] <ball> ali1234: Did you know they didn't have Teletext in America?
[5:40] <dogbert_2> <--- has used 110/300 baud modems back in 1979 :)
[5:41] <dogbert_2> remember when I got my 1200 baud modem (used) for about $100 bucks in 1980...thought that was speedy :)
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[5:42] <ball> I'm too tired to think.
[5:42] * ball (~ball@ Quit (Quit: leaving)
[5:43] <Choscura> Hi too tired to think, I'm dad
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[6:29] <VoidShift> Does anyone have any experience with PiCroft (MyCroft on pi)
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[6:32] <VoidShift> My first time installing (using linux download instead or premade pi image since it runs a different debian), and I was on root. It warned me that running as root should be avoided, but said I could force allow root if I wanted. Jw why it isnt supposed to be run as root?
[6:33] <seek^126> yo, it took 50h to generate the DH file on the rPi 1b :P
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[6:45] <mlelstv> compared to 6 minutes on a 3.3GHz Haswell
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[7:57] <suttin> VoidShift: some services don't require root to run. If it doesn't need access to root only ports or root only logs, etc, you can run it as a non root account. This is a good idea for security and stability reasons. If someone does figure out a way to run arbitrary commands, they would ohave access to the commands that the account running the service would have. If you're running as root, they now can
[7:57] <suttin> control and take over your computer.
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[8:04] <VoidShift> Ok tyvm
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[9:26] <Togra> so, I've discovered I can echo 1 then 0 to one of the led1's brightness file and it turns off the power LED. I always thought this wasn't possible, but since it is.. is there something I can add to config.txt to make this change stick?
[9:26] <Togra> this is with a raspberry pi 3 in particular
[9:27] <Choscura> hmm
[9:28] <Choscura> that is an interesting discovery. I suppose you could do something to reload your custom config.txt to replace the default on boot
[9:28] <Togra> "one of the" can be removed to be easier to read :<
[9:28] <Togra> I've added lines in the past to turn off the activity led, which worked fine. but when I try copying those lines and changing "act" to "pwr", it doesn't have an effect
[9:29] <Choscura> then 'pwr' doesn't seem to be the correct variable name
[9:29] <Choscura> is that 'pwr' something you guessed with, or did you have a reference to that somewhere?
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[9:29] <Togra> yeah. I wonder if it's as simple as a different variable, but I'm not sure how I can find what variables are available. I saw it on a guide on how to turn off the LED's, but it was specifically for models not the rpi3
[9:30] <Togra> I think 1, 2 and zero, but it still worked up until the "add these two dtparam lines to config.txt"
[9:30] <Choscura> hmm. Link me what you've got so far.
[9:31] <Togra> here it is https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blogs/jeff-geerling/controlling-pwr-act-leds-raspberry-pi
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[9:32] <Togra> and here's the two lines in config.txt https://paste.ee/p/RGoyK
[9:32] <Choscura> and, you haven't tried "PWR" rather than "pwr"?
[9:32] <Togra> nope
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[9:32] <Choscura> this is coding, it's case-sensitive
[9:32] <Choscura> that's step 1 of what I'd try
[9:32] <Togra> yeah, I would figure it'd always be lowercase
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[9:33] <Choscura> lol, "How do I do this to HDMI? Except I'm on Kali"
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[9:36] <Togra> trying uppercase didn't turn it off
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[9:39] <Togra> I guess I can make a shell script to echo 1 then echo 0 to its brightness then add to root's crontab, seems odd that the act light would be so easy and power not though
[9:40] <Togra> oh, works with just 0, doesn't need 1
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[10:00] <Choscura> lol good job Togra!
[10:00] <Fulgen> Togra: why don't you disable the LEDs within the config.txt
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[10:01] <Fulgen> ah, misread, nvm
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[11:42] <lyakh> hi, am I going to be banned for life here for asking a question about ubuntu? :-)
[11:43] <mfa298> lyakh: you can try, this is just #raspberrypi not #raspbian
[11:44] <lyakh> well, I thought #raspbian would be even more inappropriate...
[11:45] <lyakh> anyway, I tried the latest ubuntu core on a Pi 2 B v1.2, and only getting a colour pattern on the display, it isn't booting, and the green LED is blinking 4 short and 4 long pulses repeatedly...
[11:46] <lyakh> another distro on the same Pi, the same card - work fine
[11:46] <gordonDrogon> it's possible that ubuntu doesn't have the right kernel/bootloader code.
[11:46] <mlelstv> probably needs newer firmware ?
[11:46] <gordonDrogon> all ofthe above.
[11:47] <lyakh> firmware?.. oh... cool, didn't think about that... I'll google that - thanks, but any links are appreciated too!
[11:47] <gordonDrogon> well - you can take the firmware (bootcode.bin, start.elf) off a system that works and copy it over.
[11:48] <mfa298> there is some documentation about what the blink patterns mean, butthey're generally about not being able to find the right files on the FAT (/boot) partition
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[11:48] <gordonDrogon> I'd suggest copying the whole of /boot but you also need /lib/modules to go with it.
[11:48] <lyakh> is the firmware loaded dynamically? AFAICS ubuntu core doesn't have any at all
[11:49] <gordonDrogon> the Pi boot process is: GPU -> Load firmware -> load kernel -> turn on ARM.
[11:49] <lyakh> I mean if I mount that SD card on my machine - I don't see those files
[11:49] <mfa298> lyakh: I was meaning this is a reasonable place, it's generic pi stuff which can include non raspian images (although raspbian is probably the most common image used)
[11:49] <mlelstv> lyakh, the files are in the FAT partition, usually mounted as /boot
[11:50] <mfa298> lyakh: if you don't have bootcode.bin, start.elf etc on the FAT partition the Pi can't start things up, those are the firmware files it needs
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[11:52] <lyakh> oh, damn, ok, sorry, those files are there
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[11:54] <lyakh> the page with blink error codes has an entry for "4 blinks," I guess that's the one
[11:56] <lyakh> it says "start.elf not launch-able"
[11:56] <lyakh> i.e. the GPU has started, but cannot start the ARM
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[11:57] <mfa298> that might mean the files are too old for your hardware
[11:57] <mfa298> or could suggest an unhappy SD card
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[11:58] <lyakh> well, it's the current ubuntu core for Pi 2, it shouldn't be too old... SD card - tried two of them...
[11:58] <lyakh> one of them also works in this very Pi with a different distro
[11:59] <mfa298> Is it the same image for the Pi3 as well ? otherwise I wonder if it's worth trying a Pi3 image (as I think the Pi2 v1.2 had the same SoC as the Pi3)
[11:59] <lyakh> really? no, Pi 3 has a different image
[11:59] <lyakh> well, let me try that then...
[12:00] * lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPE64777d632383-CM64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:01] <lyakh> thanks so far, will take a bit, I'll report when done downloading and flashing
[12:02] <mfa298> at some point the SoC on the Pi2 was switched over as the original wasn't needed in large enough numbers to justify a new fab run (most new units sold would be PI3 at that time)
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[12:08] <mi_schm> hi, i cannot delete my partitions on the sdcard. e2fsck returns Unknown code ____ 251
[12:09] <mi_schm> unable to set superblock
[12:09] <lyakh> same result, same LED flashing
[12:10] <lyakh> mfa298: ugh... so, you now have incompatible Pi2 boards out there??
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[12:11] <voltagex> hey, it seems like creating /boot/wpa_supplicant.conf is no longer enough to enable wifi on the Pi 3. Also, that rfkill if the wifi country isn't set is nasty.
[12:15] <gordonDrogon> also note that the Pi v2 has 2 ARM variants.
[12:16] <gordonDrogon> I think the 1.2 is the same ARM as the Pi v3 though, but I'd have to check the version numbrs.
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[12:18] <lyakh> gordonDrogon: well, yes, that's also what mfa298 has suggested, but so far I haven't got a solution... Really silly if ubuntu core doesn't take that into account... I guess I'll have to try to take some working files from other distros, but that sounds like a recipe for a disaster to me...
[12:18] <gordonDrogon> lyakh, hasn't ubuntu always pushed the edge? If, so then maybe they only care about the ARM that's in the v3 ...
[12:19] <gordonDrogon> but personally, unless you've a pressing need to run ubuntu then I'd stick to Raspbian - most support on the Pi than anything else.
[12:19] <lyakh> I think I do need ubuntu: https://www.hackster.io/adi1690/ros-robot-004bf8
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[12:22] <gordonDrogon> depends how much code you want to write. ROS is just a library to help you with a lot of robotics stuff. you can compile it on any platform.
[12:24] <gordonDrogon> e.g. you can make that roboth work with some trivial command-line commands with standard raspbian if you want to.
[12:24] <gordonDrogon> (which comes with Raspbian)
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[12:26] <lyakh> gordonDrogon: sure, I understand it in principle, I just want to reduce the amount of "dull" work of installing and configuring and resolving dependencies and get to the "fun" part of trying and extending ASAP. So, I wanted to use that project 1-to-1 in the beginning
[12:27] <gordonDrogon> ok
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[14:01] <mlelstv> the LED flashing comes from the bootloader. if it still flashes, you have the wrong files on the sd card.
[14:05] <mlelstv> also:
[14:05] <mlelstv> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58151
[14:05] <mlelstv> 4 flashes could be a hardware problem
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[15:16] <Voop> are there solder pads for the rpi led
[15:16] <Voop> i know you can just put one across gnd and 3.3v for a power light
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[15:16] <Voop> but the actual indicator light would be optimal
[15:18] <red9> Voop, on which model?
[15:19] <Voop> any. i would assume they would all have it
[15:19] <Voop> i mainly use the zero which does have way more solder pads for stuff
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[15:32] <gordonDrogon> no solder pads that I'm aware of, but the Zero has plenty GPIO that you can use.
[15:33] <red9> https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2017/05/Raspberry-Pi-Zero-Overhead-1-1748x1080.jpg
[15:33] <red9> What are these "RUN" and "TV" solder pads for? (btw)
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[15:34] <gordonDrogon> run is effectively reset.
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[15:34] <gordonDrogon> tv is (I think the analog compost video output)
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[15:41] <phil42> compost video, interesting concept
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[15:45] <gordonDrogon> it was, in its day.
[15:45] <gordonDrogon> never twice same colo(u)r and all that ...
[15:46] <red9> ;)
[15:46] <red9> Hopefully it's possible to config for PAL.
[15:46] <gordonDrogon> curiously enough I've just built a video generator for another project.
[15:46] <gordonDrogon> yes, PAL works just fine.
[15:47] <Voop> the 2 and 3 have the reset pins too
[15:47] <gordonDrogon> there is a tv_mode= something in /boot/config.txt
[15:47] <Voop> but its hard reset
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[15:48] <gordonDrogon> I have an atmega generating composite video - 320x240 pixels, black & white.
[15:48] <gordonDrogon> back to ye badde olde days ...
[15:48] <Voop> red9: the other side has all the solder pads
[15:48] <Voop> https://blog.protoneer.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Raspberry-Pi-Zero-Back.jpg
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[15:49] <Voop> usb data and power, ones for the sd card
[15:52] <red9> Maybe those PPx pins offer the ability to access more I/O or other interesting features.
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[15:55] <Encrypt> Hello guys!
[15:55] <Encrypt> So, I installed unbound yesterday to have a local DNS server and to filter ads
[15:55] <Encrypt> It works like a charm on my Raspberry Pi
[15:55] <Encrypt> And it only consumes 3% of memory
[15:56] <red9> Btw regarding "old" systems. I have access to this: https://s31.postimg.cc/8xi5k006x/rhinc6502_600dpi.jpg
[15:56] <red9> Dunno if to bother to do anything with it. 2x 6522 for output kind of limits what can be done ;)
[15:57] <red9> And 2764 eprom isn't the most easy thing to deal with.
[15:57] <red9> Encrypt, Pi model? memory size?
[15:58] <Encrypt> red9, Raspberry Pi 2
[15:58] <Voop> Encrypt: why not pihole
[15:58] <Encrypt> red9, And that's not the only program running on my Pi
[15:58] <gordonDrogon> red9, it's a 6502 system of some sort.
[15:58] <Encrypt> Voop, Beacause Pi Hole seemed to me overkilled
[15:58] <Encrypt> And I have lots of pieces of software already running on my Pi
[15:59] <gordonDrogon> red9, 6522's have 16 + 6 IO pins.
[15:59] <Encrypt> I don't want to have an extra web server or even statistics about the blocked ads
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[15:59] <Encrypt> I just want a local DNS which would block ads
[15:59] <Encrypt> So, installing unbound basically consists of apt-get'ing it, creating the configuration file and downloading a ads list
[15:59] <Encrypt> That's simple
[15:59] <Encrypt> I plan to do an Ansible playbook for that :)
[16:00] <red9> 6522 is what deals with async rs232 on the C64 right?
[16:01] <Encrypt> red9, Are also running on my Pi: NginX (with multiple websites), Asterisk, Filebrowser, CUPS, OpenVPN, SSLH
[16:01] <Encrypt> I should reinstall Postfix and dovecot "when I have time" too x)
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[16:02] <Encrypt> And I plan to install Radicale at some point
[16:02] <gordonDrogon> red9, no - the 6522 is a 16-bit (2 x 8 plus control) GPIO chip.
[16:02] <gordonDrogon> red9, the smaller one to the left of the cpu is the serial chip - the 6551
[16:02] <ebarch> Encrypt: if you're not already familiar with it, you'd like https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/ :)
[16:03] <gordonDrogon> red9, I do stuff with 6502's from time to time. This year marks my 40th year of using them...
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[16:06] <mlelstv> the C64 has a 6526 which is somewhat an enhanced 6522. And it's used for async rs232, the "driver" does bit-banging.
[16:06] <Encrypt> ebarch, Yeah, thanks :)
[16:07] <red9> All to make it fast.. ;-)
[16:07] <Voop> is there a command i can run from ssh to see what os is on a pi
[16:07] <Voop> or another way to figure it out
[16:08] <gordonDrogon> try uname -a
[16:08] <red9> Hey.. we have this fast hardware serializer. Hmm.. let's rip out the wires. Now we made 8x slower. Great! ;)
[16:08] <ebarch> Voop: if it's debian based, look for /etc/debian_version
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[16:09] <ebarch> you can also try cat /etc/*-release
[16:09] <Voop> uname -a gets Linux raspberrypi 4.4.50+ #970
[16:10] <Voop> its either raspian or raspbian lite
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[16:11] <gordonDrogon> Hm. my desktop gives me Debian for uname -a - it's Devuan - I guess they use the Debian kernel + configs, but Pi's don't say.
[16:11] <red9> Devuan works on Pi?
[16:12] <gordonDrogon> red9, yes, but my desktop is not a Pi
[16:12] <ebarch> looks like all my systems have a /etc/os-release file with detailed distro info
[16:12] <gordonDrogon> I think /etc/os-release is becoming standardised.
[16:12] <gordonDrogon> PRETTY_NAME="Devuan GNU/Linux 1 (jessie)"
[16:13] <gordonDrogon> or PRETTY_NAME="Raspbian GNU/Linux 8 (jessie)" on a Pi
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[16:16] <red9> I think /etc/os-release is Linux "standard"..
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[16:16] <ebarch> i'm convinced "Linux" and "standard" is an oxymoron
[16:17] <ebarch> at least when it comes to comparing distros :P
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[16:19] <mlelstv> could be worse
[16:20] <ebarch> indeed. the opposite is a complete lack of choice. as the saying goes... "the nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from"
[16:21] <mlelstv> chose from a large set of bad things..
[16:21] <Voop> PRETTY_NAME="Raspbian GNU/Linux 8 (jessie)"
[16:22] <Voop> would that be regular raspbian and not raspbian lite?
[16:22] <Voop> or could it still be lite
[16:22] <ebarch> Voop: I think it could still be lite. the difference is really just which packages are installed. so they're nearly identical from a distro standpoint
[16:22] <red9> mlelstv, break the box with BSD ;)
[16:22] <mlelstv> nah. works fine with BSD :)
[16:23] <Voop> i guess ill try to run vnc on it and see what happens
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[16:25] <ebarch> Voop: if "dpkg -l xserver-xorg" shows as installed (with a version number), then it's regular raspbian
[16:26] <Voop> no packages found
[16:26] <Voop> so lite?
[16:27] <red9> I had packages install with apt-get that won't show up with dpkg so.. go figure ;)
[16:27] <Voop> i dont really want to wipe the sd card as i have stuff on it that i dont remember how i configured
[16:27] <Voop> but oh well
[16:29] <Voop> would this turn it into regular raspbian?
[16:29] <Voop> apt-get update && apt-get -y dist-upgrade && apt-get install raspberrypi-ui-mods
[16:30] <ebarch> yeah, I'd assume lite in that case. check out https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/65848/how-do-i-upgrade-raspbian-lite-to-raspbian-pixel
[16:32] <Voop> ok ill try that
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[16:34] <red9> backup..
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[16:37] <lyakh> mlelstv: hardware problem, yes, I saw that, but mate works well there. I don't think they'd be using the SD card in SPI mode?..
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[16:41] <red9> mate?
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[16:44] <mlelstv> lyakh, so what happens when you copy over the firmware files from the mate image ?
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[16:49] <Voop> whats this crap
[16:49] <Voop> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
[16:49] <akk> Not root?
[16:50] <Voop> i did sudo
[16:50] <Voop> as the pi user
[16:52] <Voop> sudo apt-get install cowsay works
[16:52] <akk> Do you have fuser installed? You could try fuser /var/lib/dpkg/lock
[16:52] <akk> but if apt-get install works, maybe it was just a temporary thing.
[16:53] <akk> lsof | grep dpkg/lock is another way to find out if any process has that file open.
[16:54] <Voop> lsof command not found
[16:54] <akk> How about fuser?
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[16:55] <akk> or sudo apt-get install lsof
[16:57] <Voop> installed it, that command doesnt return anything
[16:57] <akk> And you're still getting permission denied? From what command?
[16:57] <Voop> yes
[16:57] <Voop> sudo apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
[16:57] <akk> You don't have a sudo on the second one.
[16:58] <akk> The && is interpreted by your local shell, your user
[16:58] <Voop> does it need two?
[16:58] <akk> yes
[16:58] <Voop> til
[16:58] <Voop> works now
[16:58] <akk> you could probably do something like sudo 'sh -c "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade"' to sudo it all in one command
[16:58] <akk> but that's harder to type than just typing sudo twice
[16:59] <Voop> do i need the &&
[16:59] <Voop> i swear ive done this before with one sudo
[16:59] <r3> the && is like an "AND" ... command after && is executed if, and only if, command before && returns an exit status of zero.
[16:59] <akk> You either need &&, or ;, or a newline.
[16:59] <r3> so they are two commands
[16:59] <akk> Personally I generally run them as separate commands. I do sudo apt-get update
[17:00] <akk> then when that finishes, I do up-arrow or ctrl-P, use ctrl-W to erase the update and type upgrade or dist-upgrade.
[17:00] <r3> commands separated by a ; are executed sequentially. The shell waits for each command to terminate in turn. But doing that way will run the 2nd even if the 1st fails.
[17:01] * giddles (~giddles@unaffiliated/giddles) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:01] <Voop> seems like && is better
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[17:05] <lyakh> mlelstv: only those two or are files like start_x.elf also related?
[17:09] * Druid__ (~pi@unaffiliated/druid) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:10] <lyakh> ok, I copied them all over... and it booted!! Up to a point when it printed an "out of memory" error and killed "snap" which doesn't look good...
[17:11] * Druid (~pi@unaffiliated/druid) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[17:11] * Druid__ is now known as Druid
[17:12] <lyakh> then it killed a couple more things, but still running...
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[17:27] <r3> akk! I hadn't known about Ctrl-W! Neat! What else in the shell I am missing I wonder?!?
[17:28] <Habbie> r3, stty -a lists a few
[17:28] <r3> oh it doesn't delete it, it cuts it. (small but important difference!)
[17:28] <Habbie> it does
[17:28] <Habbie> ^Y to get it back
[17:29] <r3> aye
[17:29] <Habbie> ^U cuts the whole line (from the end or from the cursor, depending on context)
[17:29] * phoenixbyrd (~phoenixby@2601:189:4201:9b4d::4a9e) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:29] <r3> reading this: https://gist.github.com/tuxfight3r/60051ac67c5f0445efee
[17:29] <Habbie> man bash lists more tricks
[17:29] <Habbie> and the readline docs even more
[17:29] <r3> yeah but who reads the docs or manpages
[17:30] * r3 kids, he kids
[17:30] <Habbie> i do
[17:30] <Habbie> hehe
[17:30] <Habbie> i have this unix power tools book that i try to reread yearly
[17:30] <Habbie> every time a few more things stick
[17:30] <r3> I knew about Ctrl-S and Ctrl-Q from way back in 300 baud dial-up days
[17:31] <r3> Habbie: what's the name of the book? Maybe I will pick it up
[17:32] <Habbie> r3, http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596003302.do
[17:32] <Habbie> i wonder where mine is though
[17:32] <r3> oh an o'reilly I should have known
[17:33] <akk> Hmm, I don't have those alt-b and alt-f bindings to move by words.
[17:33] <Habbie> o'reilly does not guarantee quality, i've learned over the years
[17:33] <r3> yeah now that I think of it I have (one/a couple/several) in a box I need to look for
[17:33] <Habbie> akk, try esc followed by b
[17:34] <akk> yep! That works. alt-b inserts an a-circumflex, alt-f an ae.
[17:34] <Habbie> akk, what environment?
[17:35] * sigsts (~sigsts@unaffiliated/skyroverr) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[17:35] <Habbie> akk, also try your other alt, if you have one
[17:35] <akk> zsh, but I tried it in bash too. I might have some custom readline bindings to make ^W work right in bash, but it's not in ~/.readline.
[17:35] * uksio (~uksio@p5B12F087.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:35] <Habbie> well i meant
[17:35] <akk> Nope, other alt does the same thing.
[17:35] <Habbie> 'linux console' 'gnome terminal' 'apple terminal.app'
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[17:35] <r3> hrm, I wonder if I should get the kindle version of that or the paperback
[17:36] <akk> And I should mention I'm trying this on an x86 linux machine, not a pi, but I'd think the bindings would be the same.
[17:36] <akk> In xterm.
[17:36] <Habbie> ok, xterm
[17:36] <Habbie> i bet you can configure xterm to treat one of the alts the right way
[17:36] <Habbie> i've done that in iTerm on macOS - one alt sends these escapes so that they skip words etc.
[17:36] <Habbie> the other one respects the normal macOS tricks for typing special chars
[17:36] <Habbie> you obviously have something similar to the latter on both alts right now
[17:37] <r3> as much as I love my kindle, I have found technical reference to be tricky on it. I seem to be more comfortable with a paper book by my side if I'm looking something up
[17:37] <Habbie> all my references are paper
[17:37] <akk> Ah, .inputrc is the file I was looking for for the custom readline stuff.
[17:37] <Habbie> but if i was a kindle person, unix power tools might work in that form for me
[17:37] <akk> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/108098/alt-left-to-skip-words-does-not-work-in-terminal-emulators
[17:37] <akk> Apparently I can set up the alt bindings there.
[17:37] <Habbie> well
[17:38] <Habbie> not if your xterm steals it
[17:38] <Habbie> but you're about to find out :)
[17:38] <akk> I recently got a 10" android tablet for reading technical books -- my kobo 6" is too small for that.
[17:38] <Habbie> ack
[17:38] <Habbie> not as linear as prose
[17:39] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[17:39] <akk> Habbie: Yep, still doesn't work so I might have to configure xterm somehow.
[17:39] <akk> And yeah, paper books are still better.
[17:39] * f1y_ (~f1y@archserver/trusteduser/fakeroot) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:39] <Habbie> except i keep losing paper books
[17:39] <akk> It's hard to flip back and forth on a digital device -- things like bookmarks and navigation are terrible in all ebook reading apps.
[17:39] <Habbie> i lamented the loss of The C++ Programming Language the other week
[17:39] <Habbie> but then my boss said 'was it the latest edition?' 'no' 'go order it'
[17:40] <akk> OTOH with the tablet I can carry 100 technical books anywhere, that would be a little heavy with paper books. Trade-offs.
[17:40] * XV8 (~XV8@2600:1003:b103:ddc2:498c:1919:820a:a8b6) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:40] <r3> I've got the large (10") kindle and I am still not sold on it with Tech documents. Magazines, comics, and books, yes, totally, I'm down. But there's something about a paperback. Like I've got an ancient "designing firewalls" book that is chock full of my scribbles in the margins and post-it notes sticking out the top.
[17:40] <Habbie> akk, i work from home, everything is easy ;)
[17:40] <akk> Yeah, r3, making notes is another deficiency of ebook readers.
[17:40] * uks (~uksio@p200300CB1BDB6199585DBBB75A9AB046.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:40] <Habbie> all my digital references are in https://kapeli.com/dash
[17:41] <Habbie> but they are all 'free' sources
[17:41] <Habbie> nothing wonderful like Kerrisk's The Linux Programming Interface, for example
[17:41] <akk> So many things aren't available electronically.
[17:41] <Habbie> (which is a book you should buy if you ever type any code on any unix-like system)
[17:41] <r3> plus physicality is a big thing; where I know in this book where a topic is, or where I've seen an example or something just by flipping approximately to where it is.
[17:41] <Habbie> well it is available electronically but it doesn't fit in Kapeli Dash
[17:41] <akk> What I really want (not a computer thing) in electronic format is geology books, like the roadside geology series
[17:42] <akk> because I always go on trips and then realize I forgot, again, to bring the relevant geology paper book along.
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[17:44] <akk> Habbie, I shouldn't have to restart X to test that inputrc alt thing in xterm, should I? (It's working fine in console, but not in xterm.)
[17:44] * tonythomas (uid25971@wikimedia/-01tonythomas) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:44] <Habbie> akk, i don't think so, no
[17:45] <akk> Ha, found it. A couple of X resources, https://superuser.com/questions/285306/alt-d-alt-f-etc-stops-working-in-my-xterm
[17:45] <r3> yay I totally derailed and untopic'd the channel into "fun with terminals"!!
[17:46] <akk> Hey, anyone working with a pi can benefit from learning unix tricks ...
[17:46] <r3> ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ
[17:48] <Habbie> r3, seems plenty ontopic to me
[17:48] <Voop> didnt realize there was an option in raspi-config to allow you to boot to cli
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[17:50] <akk> BTW, I also have this in my .inputrc: "\C-w": backward-kill-word
[17:50] <akk> which makes words break at punctuation characters, not just spaces (very useful when e.g. deleting parts of a URL).
[17:50] <Habbie> ah!
[17:50] <Habbie> one of the few things i like in csh over (ba)sh
[17:50] <Habbie> by default anyway
[17:51] <akk> and I also have set bind-tty-special-chars Off, but I don't remember why, I neglected to comment that one (googling now :)
[17:51] <akk> Habbie: Yeah, I used csh for many many years so I missed that.
[17:52] <akk> I also bind capslock to be ctrl, because the silly microsoft/ibm-mandated ctrl key position is impossible for me to reach
[17:52] <akk> and I use these various editing characters like 1000000 times a day.
[17:52] <Habbie> i have bound my capslock to some meta as well
[17:52] <Habbie> i don't use it
[17:53] <Habbie> but it prevents me from actually using caps lock which is good
[17:53] <Habbie> oh i found my unix power tools book!
[17:53] <akk> I don't even bother to bind the capslock function to a key, I need it so seldom
[17:53] <Habbie> same
[17:53] <akk> so on the maybe one occasion a month where I'd want it, I just hold Shift down.
[17:53] <Habbie> which is better because it also messes up your numbers ;)
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[17:54] * XV8 (~XV8@2600:1003:b103:ddc2:498c:1919:820a:a8b6) Quit (Quit: Went to find some other shit to do.)
[17:54] <akk> Right :)
[17:55] <akk> Once or twice a year I need to type a lot of caps for some reason and wish I had a capslock, which isn't often enough to matter.
[17:55] <Voop> does strech have a vm client preinstalled
[17:55] <akk> At that frequency, I wouldn't remember which key I bound it to anyway.
[17:58] <akk> Voop: I don't think so, but you can apt-get install various vms.
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[18:00] <FireHopper> morning all
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[18:03] <Voop> right now im trying to see how feasible vnc > pi > windows xp vm is
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[18:13] <Voop> what would be the best vm software to run xp on the pi
[18:13] * lerc (~quassel@122-57-98-25-vdsl.bb.spark.co.nz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:13] <Voop> or would wine be best
[18:14] <zleap> not sure about XP< i have got win3.1 running in dosbox :D
[18:14] * lerc (~quassel@122-57-98-25-vdsl.bb.spark.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:16] <red9> Anyone buying champaigne when Microsoft does Chapter 11 ? ;->
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[18:18] <Syliss> ?_?
[18:19] <akk> Voop: Is there an ARM version of XP? Generally, trying to run on x86 in an emulator on a slow ARM processor sounds like a recipe for frustration even if it's possible.
[18:19] * semeion (~semeion@unaffiliated/semeion) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.1)
[18:19] <Fulgen> did ARM even exist when XP got released
[18:20] <Syliss> Fulgen: arm has been around for a long time
[18:20] <Syliss> but no, xp did not have an arm version, it was win ce for that
[18:20] <Voop> akk: nope there isn't. gonna try it anyway
[18:20] <Fulgen> ok, then replace "exist" with "used by enough people so Microsoft should bother creating an ARM version of a desktop OS"
[18:21] <Syliss> no, no arm version of xp
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[18:21] <Voop> theres win10 iot
[18:21] <Voop> but i have no idea how to run a gui program on that
[18:22] <Voop> winxp is the oldest software i can use to run the program i need
[18:22] <Voop> and it appears xp is also the newest windows os the pi will run
[18:23] * foul_owl (~foul_owl@ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[18:23] <Syliss> cant just run it in a vm?
[18:23] <Syliss> on a new computer
[18:23] <Syliss> newer*
[18:24] <Voop> of course. or i could just run it on my win10 desktop
[18:24] <Voop> but i dont wanna
[18:24] <Syliss> lol
[18:25] <ebarch> i'm not affiliated with these guys. but if you don't mind spending some $, this might help you do what you want: https://eltechs.com/product/exagear-desktop/
[18:26] <ebarch> but I'd start with wine :P
[18:26] <ebarch> anything on a Pi will be slow, though
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[18:28] <ebarch> win10 IoT is nothing like real windows, also. AFAIK you can't run GUI apps. it's for embedded IoT dev
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[18:29] <Voop> ebarch: was just reading about that
[18:29] <Voop> dont really want to spend $13 though
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[18:30] <ebarch> pis can do some pretty amazing things. but there are limits to what you can do for $35. the right tool for the job, etc
[18:31] <ebarch> this is where I'd go run to goodwill and pickup a core 2 duo machine for $10-20, heh
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[18:34] <ebarch> out of curiosity, what software are you trying to run?
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[18:38] <Syliss> we never have anything like that at our good will
[18:38] <Syliss> speaking of, i need to try to sell my old pentium d on craigslist
[18:38] <Syliss> see if i can get like $10
[18:38] <Voop> ebarch: im not even using the $35 model
[18:38] <dogbert2> LOL...10 bucks
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[18:39] <akk> Even if you get an emulator running, it'll be orders of magnitude slower than an x86, and it may not support things like the video chip.
[18:39] <Voop> im using the $5 zero
[18:39] <Syliss> dogbert2: you would be surprised at what people will pay and what they try to sell stuff for
[18:39] * noobineer (~noobineer@c-68-55-184-193.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[18:39] <dogbert2> <--- libre computer aml-s905x-cc 1gb running Armbian
[18:39] <Syliss> i may just donate it
[18:40] <dogbert2> that's the little turd...my desktop is more powerful
[18:40] * kozy (~quassel@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:41] <Syliss> i have a few desktops
[18:41] * Chinesium (~ER_nesto@unaffiliated/funk) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[18:41] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@2a01cb0401d1720049a643aa96efa9c1.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[18:43] <dogbert2> yeah, these < $50 SBC's can replace a bunch of those if you need simple servers
[18:43] * ConkyAxis (~ConkyAxis@cpc82865-enfi22-2-0-cust482.20-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[18:43] <mfa298> Fulgen: I've got an ARM machine at home from back in the days of Dos 6.2 and Windows 3.1, ARM has been around for a long time (reading a bit of scrollback)
[18:44] <Fulgen> ok, wtf :D
[18:45] <mfa298> That was a real piece of interesting hardware, could have a ARM processor and a 486 processor in the same board and able to share ram and graphics (Acorn RiscPC).
[18:45] * kozy (~quassel@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:46] <MacGeek> yeah arm is originally from the eighties iirc
[18:46] <MacGeek> and it was spun off in the nineties when they were working with apple to update the architecture
[18:47] <MacGeek> for the newton
[18:47] <mfa298> Voop: emulating XP on a zero is likely to be a horrible experience (if that's what you were thinking of) I think the people that have tried it use the Pi2 or Pi3 and it's still slow.
[18:47] <red9> ARM has its roots in 6502 ;) "Acorn Computers considered how to move on from the relatively simple MOS Technology 6502 processor to address business markets"
[18:48] <hotpot33> RPi's power requirements have been causing me a lot of pain recently.
[18:48] <red9> model?
[18:48] <hotpot33> Can anyone fill me in what I should do
[18:48] <hotpot33> RPi 3
[18:48] * user0766543 (~madamewan@ has joined #raspberrypi
[18:48] <hotpot33> I have tried:
[18:48] <hotpot33> 1. A supercharger (5V, total output 3.1Amp, only RPi connected), says voltage low
[18:49] <hotpot33> I need this for a relatively bigger project and have a few things connected: a Wi-Fi dongle (the embedded Pi shit doesn't connect, says out of range, 0.5Amp)
[18:49] <ShorTie> i like the chromebook 5.25v@3amp
[18:49] <hotpot33> a webcam (0.5amp again)
[18:49] <hotpot33> and N O T H I N G E L S E
[18:49] <ShorTie> and read the topic pleaze
[18:49] <hotpot33> rules?
[18:50] <hotpot33> and that should average around 1.8amp at max load
[18:50] <red9> hotpot33, need low standby/sleep power? or how to supply power for stress loads?
[18:50] <hotpot33> or let's assume it will go upto 2.0amps, I have not connected any GPIO load
[18:50] <hotpot33> second
[18:50] <hotpot33> It doesn't cause problems when I'm doing nothing
[18:50] <hotpot33> but when I run that Google Assistant hotword application and then say ok google
[18:50] <hotpot33> and tail my dmesg
[18:50] <hotpot33> I see it says voltage went low
[18:50] <hotpot33> so I have tried a few things, more.
[18:50] <mfa298> hotpot33: I'd suggest trying the official PSU and see if that solves any power issues. A lot of other things might not manage 5V at the end of the cable when the pi is drawing current
[18:51] <hotpot33> mfa298: The problem is the official PSU's shipping to my country is 3x the actual PSU price
[18:51] * GenteelBen (GenteelBen@cpc111801-lutn14-2-0-cust55.9-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:51] <Choscura> again, if you want a psu board, get a cheap battery pack
[18:51] <red9> hotpot33, which country?
[18:51] <hotpot33> 2. I tried a old PSU, by connecting its PS_ON to GND (I read the ATX12V docs)
[18:51] <hotpot33> India
[18:52] <Choscura> those USB battery things to charge phones have decent power boards in them
[18:52] <Choscura> that's what I've seen people, eg, make laptops and tablets out of pi's with
[18:52] <hotpot33> and then connecting one of its Molex connectors' VCC to RPi's Board 2 GPIO and GND to Board 5
[18:52] <hotpot33> then it booted, no issues but it said voltage too low off the bat
[18:52] <Choscura> too low amperage
[18:52] <Choscura> the voltage is the size of the pipe
[18:52] <hotpot33> VCC means the red wires, which should be 5V, I've tested the PSU is working with a fan
[18:53] <Choscura> the amperage is how much water through the pipe (or, electrons, in this case)
[18:53] <mfa298> hotpot33: if you're not going to try the official PSU then alos try some other USB cables. Many USB cables will drop too much voltage (works fine with charging phones but not running the Pi)
[18:53] <hotpot33> Choscura: I know what voltage and amperage is, and the size is a shit analogy
[18:53] <hotpot33> I tried some other cables, about 3 of them
[18:53] <hotpot33> I used one of them with my rpi2 and it caused no problems
[18:53] <Choscura> hotpot33, just establishing baseline. but, whatevers, you need 2 USB chargers to meet/exceed 2.5 amps
[18:54] <Choscura> normal USB is 2 amps
[18:54] <mfa298> I think some people have reported having to try a lot more than three cables to find something suitable (at which point buying the right thing at the start often works out cheaper)
[18:54] <hotpot33> Choscura: A ATX power supply (with max powers as 450W) should work, right?
[18:55] <hotpot33> I wanted to avoid the USB things (USB looks like cancer) and directly wire the ATX's molex 5v and GND to GPIO
[18:55] <stiv> is that 450W on the 5v rail?
[18:55] <Choscura> if it's supplying sufficient amperage, yes. But, if it's supplying a down-regulated standard 2 amps, that's gonna be a problem where you see the lightning bolt.
[18:55] <red9> hotpot33, Use ATX PSU, wire PS_ON to GND. Then use real cables to the 40-pin IDC (GPIO). Be careful to wire the right pins and polarity. It should provide all the juice you need.
[18:55] <hotpot33> but I don't see why that didn't work
[18:55] <mfa298> hotpot33: I think ATX PSU's will often only provide a stable supply if you draw enough current (potentially more than a Pi uses)
[18:55] <hotpot33> stiv: it's max 300W but RPi shouldn't ever exceed 20W, right?
[18:55] <red9> As 'mfa298' said.. too little power use can also be an issue.
[18:56] <hotpot33> red9: I did wire PS_ON to GND and then try out a standard case fan
[18:56] <Choscura> pi shouldn't be going above 5 volts for power pins and 3.7v for the rest
[18:56] <gordonDrogon> A Pi 3+ will barely exceed 10 watts.
[18:56] <hotpot33> a dummy voltage?
[18:56] <hotpot33> a dummy use*
[18:56] <hotpot33> ?
[18:56] <hotpot33> What can I use as a dummy?
[18:56] <Choscura> anything USB?
[18:56] <hotpot33> Wait what
[18:56] <red9> A thin wire. If you measure it first.
[18:56] <hotpot33> ATX doesn't have USB
[18:56] <Choscura> pi is usb
[18:56] <gordonDrogon> You just need 5v for hte Pi. It generates the 3.3 and 1.8v on-board.
[18:56] <Choscura> it runs on 5 volt power, which it steps down internally to 3.7
[18:56] <gordonDrogon> don't try to fee din anything other than 5v.
[18:57] <Choscura> basically.
[18:57] <hotpot33> red9: I did connect RPi's Board pin 2 to PSU's molex 5V and Board pin 5 to molex GND
[18:57] <hotpot33> Well I do supply 5V
[18:57] * Vonter (~Vonter@ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[18:57] <_Trullo> ok, so a older raspberri pi is working with my hdmi/dvi adapter but not the new model.. I will try a hdmi/dvi cable and see if that works, found cheap ones on ebay.. but it's strange it works on a older model..
[18:57] <red9> Another approach is to get the power from the PC-4-pin-molex used for harddiscs etc.
[18:57] <hotpot33> Molex connectors have 12V and 5V, I wired the 5V
[18:57] <hotpot33> red9: that's what I've been saying, am I lagging?
[18:57] <red9> Then you will already have your dummy load.
[18:57] <hotpot33> Yes.
[18:58] <hotpot33> RPi booted
[18:58] <mfa298> Choscura: if you get 3.7v on your pi something is wrong, the GPIO is 3v3 (fairly standard voltage for logic stuff these days)
[18:58] <hotpot33> but with the power a PSU has, I don't see how it is not the correct voltage
[18:58] <Choscura> eh, I'm probably remembering that wrong, then.
[18:58] <Choscura> mixing up other specs. it's within 3 volts, though.
[18:58] <hotpot33> I think I'll need a dummy load otherwise the PSU won't provide exactly 5V
[18:59] <Choscura> use the USB ports on the computer
[18:59] <gordonDrogon> have you got a multimeter you can check it with?
[18:59] <Choscura> it's possible that this is a dead pi.
[18:59] * JessicaRN (6cd0b44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[18:59] <red9> Riple voltage may also mess things up.
[18:59] <gordonDrogon> a usb port may not supply enough to power a Pi v3/3+. Zero ought to be fine though.
[19:00] <hotpot33> India's electronics stores are useless and anything I need will be either bought from AliExpress or EBay or Amazon, so shipping is like half the product cost (most of this stuff averages around 100 Rs, and the shipping is mostly flat rate at 50 rs, massive cost efficiency here you see) and 5-12 days
[19:00] <hotpot33> so I need something, erm quick
[19:00] <Choscura> what do you need to do with it?
[19:00] <hotpot33> Choscura: Google Assistant stuff
[19:00] <gordonDrogon> well, if you have a Pc with a spare hard drive power connector, then use that - with the PC turned on.
[19:01] <hotpot33> I'll have to get that wire out of the case, which is a massive pain
[19:01] <gordonDrogon> assuming you have the neccessary tools, etc. to connect it safely into the Pi.
[19:01] <hotpot33> and I don't, I only have this PSU since I replaced this one with a higher wattage one currently sitting on mine
[19:01] <red9> hotpot33, what part of india are you in?
[19:01] <hotpot33> red9: Eastern India, West Bengal
[19:01] <gordonDrogon> well, a spare PSU ought to be OK..
[19:01] <Choscura> kannada?
[19:01] <Choscura> or is that south of you?
[19:01] <hotpot33> nah
[19:01] <JessicaRN> pi3 w/ stretch - having probs configuring iptables. my hw is internet <> wlan0 on pi3 <> iptables <> eth0 on pi3 <> wan port on my router. from the pi I can ping to the net, but from machines connected to the router I get zip
[19:01] <hotpot33> that's too south
[19:02] <hotpot33> anyway
[19:02] <Voop> hotpot33: did anyone mention a powered hub
[19:02] <hotpot33> Voop: powered hub? that stuff is extremely hard to find in India
[19:02] <hotpot33> the powered hub costs like 15$
[19:02] <Habbie> JessicaRN, besides configuring iptables, you most likely also need to enable forwarding via sysctl
[19:02] <hotpot33> I searched for it before
[19:02] <Voop> does india not have amazon.com
[19:02] <Choscura> $15 is the normal price
[19:02] <hotpot33> Yes, Voop, India has amazon.in
[19:02] <hotpot33> Choscura: wait wot
[19:03] <Choscura> an externally powered USB hub? I normally see those around $15
[19:03] <red9> hotpot33, I think you have identified a business.
[19:03] <Voop> they sell powered hubs at the $5 store here
[19:03] <hotpot33> https://www.amazon.in/QuantumZERO-External-Powered-USB-Ports/dp/B011OSM2KW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523811795&sr=8-1&keywords=powered+hub
[19:03] <JessicaRN> Habbie: I did "net.ipv4.ip_forward=1" in sysctl.conf
[19:03] <red9> hotpot33, Buy large quantities of good electronics. And sell locally, some via mail-order.
[19:03] <hotpot33> this is 1.5k, 1k is about 15$
[19:03] * Gathis (~TheBlack@unaffiliated/gathis) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:03] <hotpot33> red9: that's a business to consider
[19:04] <hotpot33> anyway lemme ****ing fix my google assistant so I can finally hook this google assistant up to my Arduino which has some home automation stuff I made
[19:04] <Voop> ive wanted to open up a cheap chinese electronics wearhouse
[19:04] <Voop> just mark everything up a couple dollars and people will pay for it already being in the states
[19:05] <Habbie> hotpot33, please mind your language
[19:05] <red9> hotpot33, I have also read that your region has some "political red" problems. So it might be worthwhile to consider other regions.
[19:05] <JessicaRN> Habbie: anything else I need?
[19:05] <hotpot33> red9: nah, sociopolitics is not for #raspberrypi
[19:05] <hotpot33> k
[19:05] <Habbie> JessicaRN, uhm, it's been a while for me
[19:05] <Habbie> JessicaRN, what does your iptables look like?
[19:05] <Voop> just pay $15 for a powered hub and your issue is solved
[19:05] <hotpot33> well, the hub idea is a big nope
[19:05] <hotpot33> at that cost
[19:06] <JessicaRN> Habbie: they are all accept
[19:06] <red9> hotpot33, My point being that other regions might have more access to stuff you need.
[19:06] <hotpot33> I could even buy these USB male and female breakouts
[19:06] <Habbie> JessicaRN, but did you configure NAT/masquerading?
[19:06] <Voop> i had to pay $15 for a usb to rj45 adapter
[19:06] <Habbie> JessicaRN, assuming your setup needs that, it's not entirely clear
[19:06] <JessicaRN> Habbie: iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o wlan0 -j MASQUERADE
[19:06] <hotpot33> Voop: a USB male breakout costs about 2$, and a USB female breakout about 0.5$
[19:06] <Habbie> JessicaRN, what do your IP configs and route table look like?
[19:07] <Voop> then buy that
[19:07] <hotpot33> that's about 2.5$ per port, multiply it by 4, you have 10$
[19:07] <Voop> solder everything to one of those
[19:07] <Voop> and tie another 5v psu in there
[19:07] <JessicaRN> habbie, i'll post it and brb
[19:07] <red9> hotpot33, maybe you can cooperate with someone else locally when ordering overseas?
[19:08] <hotpot33> I just need to get the D+, D- and GND from the RPi, and then hook these to the slaves, but with the VCC and GND (GND will need to be joined with the RPi GND AFAIK) from some other source
[19:08] <hotpot33> 5V PSUs are cancer, I can only find a 5V 3A on Premier Farnell India
[19:09] <hotpot33> I'm reluctant about buying that as all 5V PSUs never work with RPi
[19:09] <Habbie> hotpot33, again please mind your language
[19:09] <gordonDrogon> look for one that says works with the Pi - from Farnell it ought to be good.
[19:10] <Voop> how do they not work with rpi?
[19:10] <hotpot33> red9: well, no, most electronics products I buy are manufactured in China and warehoused in South India
[19:10] <gordonDrogon> if you get the official white Pi one then it should be fine
[19:10] <hotpot33> Habbie: even cancer is banned?
[19:10] <red9> hotpot33, splice an USB cable to separate the Vcc ?
[19:10] <Habbie> hotpot33, using diseases to indicate the low quality of something is not nice, no
[19:10] <hotpot33> red9: I have wasted two precious USB cables trying to separate the VCC and GND
[19:11] <hotpot33> That is a big no-no
[19:11] <Voop> whenever i need a psu for a pi i just buy a 110 to 5v usb wall wart and solder wires to vcc and gnd
[19:11] <Voop> usb cables are for losers
[19:11] <gordonDrogon> best not to do that with those Indian 220 volts ...
[19:11] <stiv> heh
[19:12] <gordonDrogon> the main issue is that USB "chargers" are different from USB power supplies.
[19:12] <gordonDrogon> most devices will tolerate sub-standard chargers, but the Pi needs a good, proper power supply
[19:12] <Voop> ive never had a problem using a charger
[19:12] <JessicaRN> Habbie: https://nofile.io/f/u8hyGPZY1oh/iptables.txt
[19:12] <hotpot33> I also have these power banks that theoretically have 5V 2.4Amp outputs
[19:12] <JessicaRN> Habbie: tyvm
[19:12] <hotpot33> It also has a current meter
[19:12] <hotpot33> I connected them to RPPi
[19:12] <red9> I wonder what the quality of the Indian 220 V is..
[19:13] <Voop> how about this
[19:13] <hotpot33> under load, it said 1.2Amp and then it said low voltage
[19:13] <hotpot33> and then it dropped
[19:13] <hotpot33> it said voltage stabilized about 12s later
[19:13] <gordonDrogon> battery power banks are usually OK, but they're designed for charging, however I've used an Anker unit to power several Pi's in the past.
[19:13] <red9> Btw, India is specified as 230 V 50 Hz.
[19:13] <hotpot33> It didn't even draw 2.4Amp
[19:13] <Voop> hotpot33: power bank > male breakout > rpi?
[19:13] <hotpot33> Is this a defect with my RPi or something
[19:14] <gordonDrogon> what modem Pi do you have?
[19:14] <gordonDrogon> *model?
[19:14] <hotpot33> Voop: no, straight from the bank using a standard AmazonBasics MicroUSB cable
[19:14] <hotpot33> gordonDrogon: RPi 3, Model B
[19:14] <gordonDrogon> ok.
[19:14] <Voop> im saying you could try that
[19:14] <red9> not +?
[19:14] <hotpot33> Manufactured in 2015
[19:14] <hotpot33> no
[19:14] <gordonDrogon> it will need a good PSU. So a PC PSU ought to be fine - what was the issue when using that ATX PSU?
[19:14] <red9> hotpot33, you try to power it via USB or IDC-GPIO pins?
[19:15] <hotpot33> red9: USB
[19:15] <red9> Has your Pi ever worked?
[19:15] <red9> ie known to work..
[19:15] <Voop> i have a 5v (well variable from 1v to 24v) 20A psu
[19:15] <hotpot33> I have even tried powering it through my SMPS -> YwRobot Breadboard Power Supply (connected SMPS molex 5v to YwRobot 5v Rail and GND to GND) then connected its USB female to the RPi male
[19:16] <red9> I read that the 5V rail input has tolerance of +/- 0.25 V.
[19:16] <hotpot33> red9: it does everything correctly without causing problems when not connected to a webcam and wifi dongle
[19:16] <hotpot33> no low voltages and stuff
[19:16] * Fulgen (~Fulgen@078132052171.public.t-mobile.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[19:16] <stiv> "Don't use a battery charger as a power supply" should be in the topic
[19:16] * Fulgen (~Fulgen@078132052171.public.t-mobile.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:17] <Voop> stiv: i have no problems with it
[19:17] <red9> stiv, or "connect a oscilloscope to check your power supply first" ;)
[19:17] * energizer (~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:17] * mike_t (~mike_t@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:17] <hotpot33> it also said right off the bat low voltage
[19:17] <Voop> i think most power issues come down to bad cables
[19:17] <stiv> red9, exactly!
[19:17] * Fulgen (~Fulgen@078132052171.public.t-mobile.at) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[19:17] <hotpot33> Voop: I'm using an AmazonBasics gold plated USB to MicroUSB cable, it is known to work
[19:18] <red9> hotpot33, try webcam -wifi and then wifi -webcam to see whcich one is causeing trouble?
[19:18] * ConkyAxis (~ConkyAxis@cpc82865-enfi22-2-0-cust482.20-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:18] <Voop> doesnt sound like it works
[19:18] * Fulgen (~Fulgen@078132052171.public.t-mobile.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:18] <hotpot33> AmazonBasics is reliable and I've seen that cable charge my phone at 1.8amp from the power bank
[19:18] <Voop> well the pi3 needs like 2.5a by itself
[19:19] <gordonDrogon> Voop, it doesn't quite need that.
[19:19] <zleap> yeah
[19:19] <hotpot33> I'm just surprised the RPi didn't even pull 2.4Amp (max, even if that's just marketing talk, atleast 2amp) from the powerbank under load
[19:19] * Haxxa (~Harrison@180-150-30-18.NBN.mel.aussiebb.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[19:19] <hotpot33> if it hit the max and said low voltage, I'd be satisfied and replace my PSU
[19:19] <hotpot33> but it didn't hit the max rating from my power bank ever seen (1.8Amp) as well
[19:19] <red9> The Pi might utilize peak loads that normal multimeters atre just to slow to catch.
[19:20] <hotpot33> well webcam-based video processing is not a peak load
[19:20] <hotpot33> it is a sustained load, amirite?
[19:20] <gordonDrogon> it's a complex subject the whole Pi PSU thing. Over the years we've found that various cheap PSUs are not up to it. The other thing is the quality, or lack of quality of the copper from the PSU to the connector. Then the connector. Then there are peak loads - at power on time, and during SD cards writes.
[19:20] <gordonDrogon> it all adds up to the need for a good quality PSU and cabling.
[19:21] <Choscura> are you guys saying "PSU" to refer to the plug that goes into the wall?
[19:21] <gordonDrogon> yes.
[19:21] <mfa298> Voop: but if you're using a pi zero then a) it uses a lot less power than the Pi3, and b) dosen't have and lower power indication so you wouldn't know if the voltage is dropping too low occasionally
[19:21] <gordonDrogon> PSU - wall wart, etc.
[19:21] <Choscura> yeah, the cheap ones, you *can* use, in parallel, with 2 2-amp ones or 3 1-amp ones
[19:21] <Choscura> that's the difference between them
[19:21] <Choscura> you need enough cumulative amperage
[19:21] <gordonDrogon> best to just get a good one in the first place.
[19:22] * sharperer (~sharperer@pool-108-51-139-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:22] <Voop> mfa298: i use a 2 as well
[19:22] <gordonDrogon> although if hotpot33 has an ATX PSU, then that should work - assuming it can be cabled to the Pi safely.
[19:22] <Voop> still less power than the 3 or 3+
[19:22] <hotpot33> I don't get it, why did my RPi not draw 1.8Amp (the max I've seen from my proven power bank) when I did a sustained live streaming from power bank?
[19:22] <Choscura> or, use a 2 amp and get a powered USB hub additionally, because that will make up the difference
[19:22] * Haxxa (~Harrison@180-150-30-18.NBN.mel.aussiebb.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:22] <hotpot33> gordonDrogon: I did try that, but RPi just said right off the bat low voltage (on boot, lol)
[19:22] <Choscura> hotpot33, that may be the maximum output of the battery at peak charge
[19:22] <mlelstv> the rpi itself barely needs 0.4A under load
[19:23] <Choscura> aka, it may not be enough
[19:23] * Rob235 (~Rob235@pool-100-35-64-150.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Bye!)
[19:23] <gordonDrogon> I think it's just a low voltage warning - not specifically "battery low".
[19:23] <hotpot33> I've read that it'll not provide stable voltage if you don't give it a big enough load
[19:23] <gordonDrogon> The Pi doesn't know if it's being powered via battery or mains.
[19:23] <hotpot33> gordonDrogon: I know it's a low voltage warning
[19:23] <Choscura> what, the lightning bolt thing?
[19:23] <Choscura> that's the not enough voltage for stable loads thing
[19:23] * tunekey (~tunekey@unaffiliated/tunekey) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[19:23] <hotpot33> I never said it's a battery low
[19:23] <Choscura> or not enough current, I should say
[19:23] <hotpot33> Choscura: I saw it on dmesg -Hw
[19:24] <mfa298> Choscura: putting PSUs in parallel can also cause a lot of additional issues - if one voltage is slightly above the others you might end up trying to draw more current from that one and damage it - or the slighlty higher voltage might damage the other PSUs.
[19:24] * mlelstv learned again that there are bad usb cables too
[19:24] <JessicaRN> can dnsmasq be configured as a firewall?
[19:24] <Habbie> i really like that the official supplies come with a fixed cable
[19:24] <JessicaRN> Habbie: did you see my link?
[19:24] <Choscura> oooh
[19:24] <Choscura> am discovering dmesg
[19:24] <Habbie> JessicaRN, yes but then i forgot, looking at it now
[19:24] * Very_slow (~dewrock@CPEc412f5da6ef1-CM84948c4b03d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[19:24] <hotpot33> it said https://a.uguu.se/tZPB6CiIWGtJ.png
[19:24] <JessicaRN> Habbie: ty
[19:24] <Choscura> live and learn, eh. education outside the system.
[19:25] <Habbie> JessicaRN, can you add iptables -L -t nat, and sysctl -a | grep forw
[19:25] * tristero (~nobody@unaffiliated/transfinite) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[19:25] <Habbie> JessicaRN, please
[19:25] <hotpot33> https://www.elementzonline.com/index.php?route=journal2/quickview&pid=534
[19:25] <Choscura> mfa298, that's news to me, I have had extremely positive results
[19:25] <hotpot33> I'm thinking about trying this
[19:25] <JessicaRN> Habbie: sure. sec
[19:26] <hotpot33> If I get sustained 3A, that should be enough for all of the 4 USB ports drawing 0.5A (max allowed by USB non-PD spec)
[19:26] <Habbie> JessicaRN, oh and your routing table please
[19:26] <Voop> how much is 329 rubles in us dollars
[19:26] <hotpot33> rubles? wot
[19:26] <hotpot33> https://a.uguu.se/tZPB6CiIWGtJ.png is the low voltage alert I mean
[19:26] <Habbie> Voop, google can answer that better than we can
[19:26] <Choscura> hotpot33, that seems like it would do the trick
[19:26] <Voop> 329 indian rubles = 5 bux
[19:26] <hotpot33> https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/c7bd983d-a59c-487b-86e1-b66bd290652a.png
[19:27] <hotpot33> yea
[19:27] * erlanger (uid181036@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jiswomttyrzegdjl) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[19:27] <Choscura> damn, what happened? Wasn't that 600 5 years ago?
[19:27] <hotpot33> I can afford that but I don't want to waste for no reason if it said under-voltage again
[19:27] <Lartza> Voop, rupee not ruble
[19:27] <Choscura> lol
[19:27] <Choscura> I didn't spot it either so I can't say shit
[19:27] <Choscura> but still, lol
[19:28] <Voop> hotpot33: it comes with the cable right
[19:28] <gordonDrogon> Choscura, no, you can't say that.
[19:28] <hotpot33> If it says under-voltage again with the wires supplied with the 3A PSU, I'm legitimately going to scrap my RPi and throw it in the dustbin
[19:28] <Voop> im also still waiting on an answer to your question, why isnt the pi pulling the amperage you know the supply can provide
[19:28] <hotpot33> https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/be5e57ba-8d69-456c-ba40-fc306b5d2184.png
[19:29] <Choscura> ...oops! sorry, adult words!
[19:29] <hotpot33> looks like it has the wires
[19:29] <hotpot33> I still think RPi and broadcom stuff in general is a mystery that none can solve
[19:29] <JessicaRN> Habbie: https://nofile.io/f/TGC144b8B3H/iptables.txt
[19:29] <Lartza> Voop, What do you mean not pulling the amperage?
[19:29] <gordonDrogon> The Pi3 has a 2.5 amp polyfuse on the input too, so that'll trip if you plug in anything that takes it over that limit.
[19:29] <JessicaRN> Habbie: its at the bottom
[19:30] <Voop> Lartza: hotpot33's supply is known to be able to provide 1.8A
[19:30] <hotpot33> I've used my powerbank to charge my phone which only takes 1.8A at max
[19:30] <Voop> Lartza: but the pi is not even pulling 1.8A despite giving low power warnings
[19:30] <hotpot33> it sustained that load
[19:30] <hotpot33> ^
[19:30] <Habbie> JessicaRN, it's not loading for me, can you try pastebin.com?
[19:30] <JessicaRN> sure
[19:30] <Lartza> Voop, Supply or charger?
[19:30] <hotpot33> Lartza: it's a power bank
[19:31] <Voop> i believe its a power bank
[19:31] <Lartza> So then, it's not guaranteed to stay at 5A
[19:31] <Lartza> *5V
[19:31] <Lartza> And the pi is not a battery
[19:31] <Lartza> Simple as that really
[19:32] <JessicaRN> Habbie: https://pastebin.com/RfqizBT4
[19:32] <Voop> how much does shipping from china cost you
[19:32] <Voop> hotpot33:
[19:32] <hotpot33> AFAICT, the powerbank did have the sane 5.V +- 0.25 voltages, I used it for some amperage testing with my friend's multimeter afaik
[19:32] <Voop> you could get a boost conveter for probably less than a dollar
[19:32] * jancoow (~jancoow@dhcp-077-251-034-091.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: jancoow)
[19:32] <hotpot33> Voop: free, but takes more than 30 days
[19:32] <Voop> to maintain 5v
[19:32] <hotpot33> If bought from AliExpress
[19:33] <hotpot33> I do have a 5v voltage regulator but it's step down
[19:33] <Lartza> hotpot33, multimeter isn't a load
[19:33] <Habbie> JessicaRN, what IP does the wan port on the router have?
[19:33] * giddles (~giddles@unaffiliated/giddles) Quit (Quit: brb)
[19:33] <mfa298> Voop: the warning on the pi is for low voltage not low/high current. With all Power sources as you draw more current the voltage it can provide drops. Also as you draw more current through a cable the voltage available at the end drops. - I'd suggest a google about internal resistance and circuit theory if you want to learn more
[19:33] <JessicaRN>
[19:33] <hotpot33> Lartza: multimeter was measuring the amperage, the load was smth else
[19:33] * tristero (~nobody@unaffiliated/transfinite) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:33] <hotpot33> AFAIK it was a motor
[19:33] <Habbie> JessicaRN, with default gateway set to
[19:33] <JessicaRN> Habbie:
[19:33] <Lartza> Also nothing is going to quickly switch the load like the Pi
[19:33] <Lartza> And chargers aren't designed for that
[19:33] <hotpot33> (those big motors which can go over 70k RPM)
[19:33] <JessicaRN> Habbie: yeah
[19:33] <Habbie> JessicaRN, then this looks good, i'm afraid to tell you
[19:34] <Habbie> JessicaRN, can you redo the iptables lines with -v added?
[19:34] <hotpot33> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5PCS-5V-Boost-Step-Up-Power-Module-Lithium-LiPo-Battery-Charging-Protection-Board-LED-Display-USB/32820922081.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.19f9148aPKQnDf&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10343_10340_10341_10698_10697_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_10059_10534_308_100031_10103_441_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_3&algo_expid=fbdfc664-ce15-4
[19:34] <hotpot33> 5ac-9cf1-1501a4f60029-0&algo_pvid=fbdfc664-ce15-45ac-9cf1-1501a4f60029&priceBeautifyAB=0
[19:34] <Habbie> JessicaRN, on a sidenote, 11.* is not private space you can just use
[19:34] <red9> 70k RPM sounds like a centrifuge..
[19:34] <Habbie> JessicaRN, this is not your current problem but one day it will be
[19:34] <Voop> how many amps tho
[19:35] <hotpot33> this should work afaik but this takes from microusb but doesn't provide microusb, which will require a female breakout and yet another wire (hopefully it can carry 3A, otherwise I'll facepalm) to the RPi
[19:35] <hotpot33> Voop: around 2amp afaik
[19:35] <Voop> hold on ill find a better one
[19:36] <hotpot33> https://www.ebay.in/sch/?_nkw=5v%20boost&_sacat=See-All-Categories
[19:36] <hotpot33> I see a lot of voltage regulators but none that can get upto 2.5Amp
[19:37] <JessicaRN> Habbie: https://pastebin.com/PG5hmXCg
[19:37] <Habbie> JessicaRN, ok, still looks good
[19:37] <Habbie> JessicaRN, it's time to tcpdump on eth0 and wlan0 on the pi while trying to do things from the router or the machines behind it
[19:37] <JessicaRN> Habbie: Yeah, I know they are crappy IPs, but they are private to me atm
[19:37] * djk (~Thunderbi@pool-96-242-161-125.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:37] <mfa298> JessicaRN: I've not followed all the conversation you had with Habbie, but in trying to debug network routing/nat issues it can often be useful to check it a stage at a time (e.g. try a PC plugged direct into the Pi first before adding extra routers in the middle). Looking at packet captures (tcpdump and/or wireshark) can also help to see if packets are getting translated properly
[19:37] <Voop> would be nice to have one with a pot on it
[19:37] <Voop> so you can up the voltage a little bit if need be
[19:37] <Habbie> JessicaRN, +1 on what mfa298 said
[19:38] <JessicaRN> mfa298: Habbie ty
[19:39] <JessicaRN> mfa298: Habbie the pc is getting its ip from the routers dhcp. should I just set it as static?
[19:39] * dbh613 (~nullif@2606:6000:6014:6700:226:c7ff:feb8:624e) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:39] <Habbie> no stop
[19:39] <Habbie> like mfa298 said
[19:39] <JessicaRN> the client pc on the far side of the router
[19:39] <Habbie> take out the router first
[19:39] * Very_slow (~dewrock@CPEc412f5da6ef1-CM84948c4b03d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:40] <mfa298> if the Pi isn't doing DHCP on eth0, then you would need to set it staticly if connecting it in place of the router
[19:40] <Habbie> right
[19:40] <JessicaRN> Habbie: yeah, i get that. but if I take out the router I'll lose the IP given to the PC from the routers dhcp server. (won't I?)
[19:40] <Habbie> sorry
[19:40] <Habbie> what mfa298 said
[19:40] <JessicaRN> mfa298: ok
[19:40] <JessicaRN> I think I get it.
[19:41] <Voop> hotpot33: heres a nice one
[19:41] <JessicaRN> But, before I do this, I'm curious about something. I did a factory reset on the router b4 i started to mess with this. why would it be causing issues?
[19:41] <Voop> https://pastebin.com/GUSPvEin
[19:41] <Voop> (link)
[19:42] <hotpot33> k
[19:42] <Voop> 3a putput, variable output voltage
[19:42] <Habbie> JessicaRN, we have no idea what the behaviour (factory or otherwise) of your router is
[19:42] <Voop> output*
[19:42] <Habbie> JessicaRN, so we don't know if we are debugging your router or the pi
[19:42] * Karyon_ (~Karyon@unaffiliated/karyon) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[19:42] <JessicaRN> Habbie: k. makes sense. ty
[19:42] <hotpot33> Voop: looks good but I'll need a multimeter to measure how much volts it's emitting so I can adjust it to 5v ?
[19:43] <mfa298> JessicaRN: the point about taking it out of the equation is it means fewer potential places causing problems. If the PC->Pi->Internet works then you know it's the router at fault, if the PC->Pi->internet doesn't work then you're only dealing with getting the Pi part working without worrying about whether the router is doing the right thing.
[19:43] <Voop> yes
[19:43] <JessicaRN> i'll lose you for a few to do this test. I'll brb
[19:43] <Voop> some of them have displays
[19:43] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:44] <hotpot33> I don't own a multimeter so I'll need to buy one (I borrowed my friend's multimeter in the past
[19:44] <hotpot33> )
[19:44] <Habbie> JessicaRN, that's how it goes - good luck!
[19:44] <mfa298> You could also do packet captures to see if things look right at the various places, but tsting a bit at a time is often easier
[19:44] <Habbie> i like to simplify first, then debug
[19:44] <Habbie> then build it up again
[19:44] <hotpot33> I'll try that soon (read: pay off my loans and then buy these stuff and then wait for these to get shipped)
[19:44] <Voop> every electronics hobbyest should have a multimeter
[19:45] <Lartza> They are expensive though :S
[19:45] <Voop> mine was $10 iirc
[19:45] <Lartza> Well maybe not the cheap okay ones
[19:45] <Habbie> Lartza, multimeters?
[19:45] <Habbie> mine was 4 bucks
[19:45] <Lartza> That's not even an okay one though
[19:45] <hotpot33> I do more than hobby stuff these days
[19:45] <Habbie> but i got lucky - otherwise 10 bucks yes
[19:45] <Lartza> You can get a decent one for like 20 bucks
[19:45] <Habbie> Lartza, well it has helped me a lot :)
[19:45] <Voop> i use a fluke at my job which was like $200
[19:45] <hotpot33> https://www.amazon.in/Mastech-MAS830L-Digital-Pocket-Multimeter/dp/B0093H048Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1523814337&sr=1-1&keywords=multimeter
[19:45] <Voop> but my personal one was cheap off amazon
[19:45] <hotpot33> does this erm look good?
[19:46] <Lartza> With electronics you need low ranges you won't have on a 10 buck one
[19:46] <Lartza> And with AC you need quality so you don't kill yourself ;)
[19:46] <hotpot33> Lartza: aww, this is exactly a 10$ one
[19:46] <Lartza> hotpot33, Well 5V isn't low but try measuring microamps with it
[19:46] <Lartza> is my point really
[19:46] <Voop> 575 rubles = im guessing 7 dollars
[19:46] <hotpot33> Rubles? wot
[19:46] <Lartza> Voop, Still rupees not rubles...
[19:47] * s8548a (~s8548a@unaffiliated/s8548a) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:47] <mfa298> Habbie: I tend to look for whichever is easiest and will give useful results (sometimes re-wiring stuff is harder than getting some captures), but then I'm happy with reading through packet captures as well, it's harder doing that if you're not sure what to look for
[19:47] <Lartza> eastern europe has rubles
[19:47] <Habbie> mfa298, full ack
[19:47] <hotpot33> that's 10$
[19:47] <hotpot33> 65 INR for each dollar
[19:48] * energizer (~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[19:48] <hotpot33> Voop: is this cool? https://www.ebay.in/itm/LM2596-DC-DC-Step-down-Adjustable-CC-CV-Power-Supply-Module-Converter-LED-KG488/112419990281?hash=item1a2cc0eb09:g:5EgAAOSwK6RZJ8hG
[19:48] * JessicaRN (6cd0b44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:48] * energizer (~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:48] <hotpot33> this seller is trusted, I've used his products before, it's cool
[19:48] * JessicaRN (6cd0b44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[19:48] <Voop> i do have an analog meter i got from walmart for like $4
[19:48] * energizer (~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:49] * energizer (~energizer@unaffiliated/energizer) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:49] <red9> hotpot33, Do you have to pay any special customs or taxes on your Chinese imports?
[19:49] <hotpot33> yes, I technically should
[19:49] <JessicaRN> ok, it didn't work. I used both a straight thru cable and a crossover just in case that made a difference. I could ssh into the RPi3 but I couldn't ping beyond it
[19:50] <JessicaRN> habb
[19:50] <JessicaRN> Habbie:
[19:50] <hotpot33> but most of these Chinese (erm, insert some stupid expletive here) make everything a gift so I don't pay any customs
[19:50] <Lartza> That doesn't work...
[19:50] <Voop> the chinese website i use declares the package contents as worth one dollar
[19:50] <hotpot33> if it were not a gift, it would work
[19:50] <Lartza> Customs aren't that stupid
[19:50] <Habbie> JessicaRN, if you could ssh, the cable was not the problem
[19:50] <hotpot33> Lartza: apparently so
[19:50] <red9> hotpot33, Welcome to the club :-)
[19:50] <Lartza> Marking as 1 dollar doesn't work either
[19:50] <Lartza> There are just so many china packages they can't handle them all
[19:51] <Lartza> Customs doesn't trust declarations like that, they aren't idiots
[19:51] <JessicaRN> Habbie: yeah, I get that. So I have connection to the pi but not through the pi
[19:51] <Voop> im sure they arent retarded
[19:51] <red9> Lartza, which country are you reffering to?
[19:51] <Voop> but it goes through
[19:51] <Lartza> Most
[19:51] <Habbie> JessicaRN, next step, on the pi, tcpdump the packets coming from the pc, and packets going out of the pi; see if the pi is doing the right thing
[19:51] <hotpot33> Lartza: idk but that stuff works for me
[19:52] <JessicaRN> Habbie: ok, but i don't know how to do that
[19:52] <Lartza> hotpot33, Have you actually tried ordering something that is marked not as gift and over the amount and it got caught?
[19:52] <Habbie> JessicaRN, read up on tcpdump or wireshark or tshark
[19:52] <Lartza> From the same origin country
[19:52] <Habbie> JessicaRN, run one on eth0, run one on wlan0
[19:52] <hotpot33> apparently Indian customs are one of the most corrupted and (again insert some expletive here, mods) people on earth
[19:52] <Habbie> JessicaRN, see what a ping from the pc does
[19:52] <Habbie> JessicaRN, on both
[19:52] <hotpot33> Lartza: I am not in controol of the gift or not stuff
[19:52] * jdawgaz (~Jerry@ip70-176-27-239.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[19:52] <hotpot33> amt as well
[19:52] <Lartza> Right, so you have no idea if it actually works or not
[19:52] <hotpot33> they ship the products and they can put arbitrary stuff there
[19:52] <Voop> making me think of a swear word is the same as saying the word
[19:52] <Voop> where the mods at
[19:53] <JessicaRN> Habbie: k. bbiab
[19:53] <hotpot33> they can make it a gift, they can make it a 1000$ extremely rare product that I have to pay 250$ for
[19:53] <hotpot33> I'll make my hexchat change all swear words into (Insert some stupid swear word here)
[19:53] <Lartza> Also in the context of multimeters https://www.amazon.in/HITSAN-Digital-Multimeter-Backlight-Current/dp/B078Q7RKMZ
[19:54] <Lartza> That's the cheapest cheap better than 10 buck one I can find
[19:54] <hotpot33> good god that isn't Prime (probably a shady dealer)
[19:54] <mfa298> JessicaRN: as a simple option for tcpdump open two sessions to the pi and use something like `sudo tcmpdump -nnv -i eth0` on one and a similar one for wlan0 on the other. If you ping from the PC to the internet you should see packets appear on both tcpdumps
[19:54] <hotpot33> I don't buy anything but Prime
[19:54] <Voop> thats like a million ruples
[19:54] <hotpot33> if I buy something out of Prime either EBay or AE
[19:55] <hotpot33> the seller name 'Nothing Lyk U' is probably looking more shady than anything else in the world
[19:55] <Lartza> That multimeter should cost around 24USD so it's a bit expensive in amazon.in
[19:55] <hotpot33> plus 2-4 weeks shipping
[19:55] <red9> How to get packets if the customs go bad: http://www.barnardmicrosystems.com/UAV/milestones/atlantic_crossing_2.html
[19:55] <red9> :-)
[19:55] <lyakh> FWIW: problem fixed. after replacing the firmware, I had to first boot with no ethernet connected, only plug it in later...
[19:55] <hotpot33> Lartza: that seller is probably a reshipper with stuff in the Europe/US
[19:55] <hotpot33> they buy from EU/US/RU then add 5$ and shipping
[19:55] <hotpot33> and send it here
[19:56] <Lartza> Maybe, but any of the models I looked for were more expensive than that even though they should have been 20-30USD too so :S
[19:56] <hotpot33> that's why no Prime cuz Amazon won't fulfill that
[19:56] <Lartza> So maybe amazon.in just sucks for multimeters :S
[19:56] <hotpot33> filter Prime only
[19:57] <hotpot33> https://www.ebay.in/itm/100-Original-HTC-Instruments-MAS-830L-Digital-Pocket-Multimeter/252473846066?hash=item3ac89d2932:g:7B8AAOSw-4BXZj7S
[19:57] <hotpot33> idk
[19:57] <hotpot33> does this look cool?
[19:57] * JessicaRN (6cd0b44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:58] <hotpot33> Lartza,
[19:58] <Lartza> That's the same as in amazon but... more expensive?
[19:59] <hotpot33> idk
[19:59] <hotpot33> Lartza: can you search on AliExpress please
[19:59] <Lartza> No :S
[19:59] <Lartza> Search what? the multimeters?
[19:59] <hotpot33> I buy all my edge-case non-popular electrical stuff on AE even though the shipping is slow as<insert the well known word here>
[19:59] <hotpot33> ye multimeters
[19:59] <hotpot33> .-.
[20:00] <hotpot33> And for the extremely edge case stuff
[20:00] <hotpot33> Amazon US with a reshipper (erm, it works but costly shipping af)
[20:00] <hotpot33> oh noes
[20:00] <hotpot33> sorry
[20:01] <Lartza> hotpot33, just search for an8008, an8009, zt301, zt302 yourself
[20:01] <hotpot33> k
[20:01] <Lartza> But really, depends on your usage if you can get away with a 4-10 buck one
[20:01] <hotpot33> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AN8008-AN8009-Auto-Range-Digital-Multimeter-9999-counts-With-Backlight-AC-DC-Ammeter-Voltmeter-Ohm-Transistor/32842548196.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.49045ed2u786c2&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10343_10340_10341_10698_10697_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_10059_10534_308_100031_10103_441_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_3&algo_expid=c3a
[20:01] <hotpot33> f5653-0ad0-48f0-9a28-cec176b9c35f-0&algo_pvid=c3af5653-0ad0-48f0-9a28-cec176b9c35f&priceBeautifyAB=0
[20:01] <hotpot33> this is the first hit
[20:02] <hotpot33> I hardly need a multimeter and when I check for amp loads and voltages I just borrow my friend's
[20:02] <Voop> Lartza: 10 buck meters are fine for noobstuff
[20:02] <Voop> in my opinion
[20:02] <Lartza> Depends on what that noob happens to do :P But yes they can be
[20:02] <Lartza> Don't stick it into mains and don't expect accuracy and don't expect microcurrents or other extreme ranges and you are good
[20:03] <hotpot33> I don't see a use for the multimeters
[20:03] <hotpot33> I have this ability to scan datasheets at superficial speed
[20:03] <hotpot33> Lartza: don't expect accuracy? wat?
[20:03] <Lartza> Yes?
[20:03] <Lartza> Do you expect your 4$ multimeter to be as accurate as a 200$ fluke?
[20:04] * JessicaRN (6cd0b44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:04] <stiv> a digital multimeter is *extremely* handy. the end
[20:04] <hotpot33> no, but I'd expect a reasonable accuracy
[20:04] <Lartza> Yeah, but that all depends on your usage
[20:04] * toomin (~Slartibar@unaffiliated/toomin) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:04] <hotpot33> stiv: except maybe adjusting potentiometers and checking the voltage of the power input, what use is it ?
[20:05] <Lartza> Checking that stuff is wired correctly, troubleshooting?
[20:05] <Lartza> Checking continuity
[20:05] <JessicaRN> mfa298: Habbie: so, I think I have a DNS issue. from the PC > router > rpi > internet, i cannot ping google.com but I can ping the ISP
[20:05] * ConkyAxis (~ConkyAxis@cpc82865-enfi22-2-0-cust482.20-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[20:05] <hotpot33> if the stuff is wired correctly, it'd work, otherwise not, isn't that simple?
[20:05] <Lartza> lol
[20:05] <hotpot33> yeah troubleshooting can be a case
[20:06] <Habbie> JessicaRN, the ISP or the IP?
[20:06] <JessicaRN> the nearest IP of the ISP
[20:06] <Habbie> ok
[20:06] <Habbie> how about
[20:06] <JessicaRN> sec
[20:06] <hotpot33> continuity is also a case but it hardly ever happens unless you are <mods>
[20:07] <hotpot33> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AN8008-AN8009-Auto-Range-Digital-Multimeter-9999-counts-With-Backlight-AC-DC-Ammeter-Voltmeter-Ohm-Transistor/32842548196.html looks good, adding to wishlist
[20:08] <mfa298> hotpot33: for a cheap DMM whilst it's display might show 4 figures, it might not actually be accurate to that level (so if you got 4.999V on the display the real voltage might be 4.7V)
[20:09] <hotpot33> mfa298: so 5v can be potentially 4.8v?
[20:09] <hotpot33> that's misleading af, that's close to the RPi 5v +- 0.25
[20:09] <hotpot33> ah spez again
[20:10] <mfa298> if you bought a $200 fluke then it will likely be a lot more accurate (and you can potentially pay to get it properly calibrated)
[20:10] <hotpot33> this one is a 9999 counts
[20:10] <hotpot33> mfa298: at 200$, I'd buy a new Intel embedded Atom SOC and ditch RPi
[20:10] * shantorn (~shantorn@184-100-246-242.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:10] <Lartza> an8008, an8009 and zt302 are 9999 count yes and the zt301 is 8000 count
[20:10] * JessicaRN (6cd0b44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[20:11] <hotpot33> it'll probably come with its own power adapter cuz it needs too much power and then I'll be out of these problems
[20:11] <Lartza> I think annoyingly zt301 is the most accurate of them in some measurements
[20:11] <hotpot33> Lartza: 9999 counts means X accuracy?
[20:11] <Lartza> Not really
[20:11] <hotpot33> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BSIDE-ZT301-ZT302-Electric-Handheld-Digital-LCD-Multimeter-True-RMS-Auto-Range-Multimeter-8000-9999-Counts/32842739751.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.8.3f1d752ajMRPxR&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10343_10340_10341_10698_10697_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_10059_10534_308_100031_10103_441_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_3&algo_expid=936eef
[20:11] <hotpot33> b5-f679-4855-9a7d-d6fdf15ff05c-1&algo_pvid=936eefb5-f679-4855-9a7d-d6fdf15ff05c&priceBeautifyAB=0
[20:12] <hotpot33> wt(mods), ZT301 is cheaper than the one I had in mind
[20:12] <Lartza> It does mean accuracy in one place but the problem can sometimes be in the circuitry :)
[20:13] <hotpot33> erm I can't judge all these AN800{8-9} and ZT30{1-2}
[20:13] <Lartza> :)
[20:13] <hotpot33> can you tell me which one is the best for my needs
[20:13] <Lartza> You should be fine with the cheapest if you wish to save
[20:14] * JessicaRN_ (6cd0b44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:14] <Lartza> Since you are already getting a much better meter than the 8 dollar one
[20:14] <hotpot33> I just need a voltage measurement/amp measurement/some other stuff I don't realize I need/ with max accuracy while not paying enough money to buy an Atom SOC
[20:14] <hotpot33> hmm
[20:14] <hotpot33> k
[20:15] <hotpot33> https://waa.ai/zbSU
[20:15] <hotpot33> is this one a hybrid
[20:15] <hotpot33> cuz this one has both ZT301 and ZT302
[20:15] <hotpot33> and no that isn't a rickrolling
[20:15] <JessicaRN_> mfa298: Habbie: I could not ping My dumps are here: https://pastebin.com/JxBDf2iX
[20:16] <hotpot33> Lartza,
[20:16] <mfa298> hotpot33: you need to look up the devices manual/datasheet which might tell you what the measurement accuracy is. A quick look suggestes between 0.1% and 5% on one meter depending on what's being measured and what range.
[20:16] <JessicaRN_> mfa298: Habbie: both dumps in one file. ---------------------------------------- seperates the two
[20:16] <Habbie> JessicaRN_, sorry, i have to go - good luck!
[20:16] <Lartza> hotpot33, No you should somehow get to choose one
[20:16] <JessicaRN_> Habbie: ty
[20:16] <hotpot33> I assume more counts == more what ?
[20:16] <Lartza> "Accuracy"
[20:16] <hotpot33> I'm getting the cheapest 9999 counts
[20:17] <hotpot33> and pray to Jesus that I don't get rekt
[20:17] <mfa298> so for 5V at 1% the voltage could be between 4.95 and 4.05v which might be good enough for most hobbiest use but isn't good enough for other things.
[20:17] <red9> Don't forget the safety quality when buying multimeters. Is good to have for the mains handling ranges.
[20:18] <hotpot33> mfa298: 1% of 5 is 0.20
[20:18] <Lartza> red9, Forget that if not paying for an expensive brand one
[20:18] <Lartza> hotpot33, The problem with all the 9999 count ones I listed are the A and mA ranges are on the same input hole
[20:18] <Lartza> So they might not be as good at measuring amperage as the zt301
[20:19] <hotpot33> I hardly work with mains, when I work with mains I normally do stuff with relays
[20:19] <Lartza> but ymmv unfortunately so it's hard to say
[20:19] <Lartza> never plug a 20USD meter to mains
[20:19] <Lartza> The ratings are a lie 99% of the time
[20:19] <Lartza> 100% of the time on a 4USD meter
[20:19] <JessicaRN_> mfa298: is that you wanted?
[20:20] <hotpot33> K I'm convinced ZT301 will not trainwreck me
[20:20] <hotpot33> ZT302*
[20:20] * MacGeek (~BSD@host188-232-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[20:20] <Lartza> There are unfortunately not a lot of reviews for the ZT ones it seems
[20:20] <Lartza> But at that price you should be fine for what you are getting either way really
[20:20] <mfa298> JessicaRN_: there's a lot of stuff in there which makes it hard to work out what's going where, it might be worth adding `icmp` onto the end of those tcpdump commands so it filters out to only pings.
[20:20] <Lartza> They are cheap
[20:21] <mfa298> JessicaRN_: so `sudo tcpdump -nnv -i eth0 icmp`
[20:21] <JessicaRN_> mfa298: for both ports?
[20:22] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:22] <mfa298> JessicaRN_: yes
[20:22] <JessicaRN_> brb
[20:22] * Anthaas_ (~Anthaas@unaffiliated/anthaas) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)
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[20:24] <Lartza> hotpot33, Also one very nice thing you get by paying extra is autoranging :)
[20:24] <Lartza> No need to spin that dumb dial manually to get the correct measurement range
[20:28] * JessicaRN_ (6cd0b44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[20:29] * JessicaRN (6cd0b44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[20:30] <JessicaRN> mfa298: https://pastebin.com/8R5YD1Gg
[20:30] * ap5 (~ap5@ Quit (Quit: Van Halen!)
[20:30] * dbh613 (~nullif@2606:6000:6014:6700:226:c7ff:feb8:624e) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:32] * Case77 (~Case77@pool-108-44-22-63.albyny.east.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[20:32] <hotpot33> Lartza: I think that spinning the dumb dial is a good thing to do vs paying money for it
[20:32] <hotpot33> it's like a time-money tradeoff
[20:32] <Lartza> You'd be surprised...
[20:32] <Lartza> Not really just time
[20:33] <hotpot33> what then? killing of brain cells?
[20:33] <Lartza> You'll have to know what resistance you are measuring beforehand, or adjust as you go
[20:33] <Lartza> lol
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[20:34] <JessicaRN> mfa298: did my link come thru?
[20:35] <hotpot33> resistance? wat
[20:36] <hotpot33> I apparently don't know how multimeters work
[20:36] <Lartza> hotpot33, Yes?
[20:36] <Lartza> Multimeters can measure resistance, among other things :P
[20:36] <Lartza> That's why they are MULTImeters
[20:36] <Lartza> and not voltmeters or
[20:36] <Lartza> ;)
[20:37] * gordonDrogon remembers AVO meters ...
[20:37] * hotpot33 gets confused
[20:37] <hotpot33> why would you measure resistance if you have to adjust it
[20:37] <gordonDrogon> always wanted an old AVO.
[20:37] <Lartza> hotpot33, Uh?
[20:38] <gordonDrogon> you're squabbling over minutia...
[20:38] <hotpot33> you said you have to adjust it beforehand
[20:38] <Lartza> multimeters have ranges, to measure resistance between X and Y
[20:38] <hotpot33> ah
[20:38] <hotpot33> so you need to know you are adjusting between 0.X and 0.X+1
[20:38] <JessicaRN> did mfa298 take off?
[20:38] <Lartza> autoranging means it'll just select it automatically, once you select resistance and stick it in
[20:39] <hotpot33> I never thought I'd ever need to measure resistance
[20:39] <hotpot33> so that's a useless feature for me, nope
[20:39] <mfa298> JessicaRN: sorry, was away from the screen, that's a lot more readable.
[20:39] * sandeepkr (~sandeepkr@ec2-52-29-251-54.eu-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[20:39] <JessicaRN> mfa298: np. ty
[20:39] <Lartza> hotpot33, USB cable voltage drop comes from it's resistance :P
[20:39] <hotpot33> its* and I know that
[20:40] <red9> Lartza, Chinese ratings are most probably a lie ;)
[20:40] * Lorduncan (~Thunderbi@ Quit (Quit: Lorduncan)
[20:40] <hotpot33> but it's obvious, there's a resistance you can just measure the potential
[20:40] <mfa298> JessicaRN: that looks like the pi isn't attempting any routing, as you're not seeing matchings pings on the wlan0 side to those on the eth0 side.
[20:40] <Lartza> red9, Exactly, thus save your life and don't do mains
[20:40] <JessicaRN> mfa298: what did i do incorrectly?
[20:41] <mfa298> JessicaRN: the ICMP redirects on the eth0 side are also interesting, they look to be tellign the client machine to talk direct to something it can't talk direct to.
[20:42] <JessicaRN> mfa298: crud. this has been two days of screwing with this (^#*&%#% thing
[20:42] * Karyon_ (~Karyon@unaffiliated/karyon) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[20:42] * shantorn (~shantorn@184-100-246-242.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:43] <JessicaRN> mfa298: I thought the tables said everything was open
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[20:44] * tonythomas (uid25971@wikimedia/-01tonythomas) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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[20:46] <mfa298> JessicaRN: looking back at the routing table you posted earlier I think the default route might be giving some issues. it looks to be for (probably right) but on eth0 (probably wrong)
[20:46] <JessicaRN> mfa298: is it possible to configure dnsmasq to act as a firewall? would that be an easier solution?
[20:46] <red9> Lartza, Don't do mains with Chinese brands :p
[20:47] <JessicaRN> mfa298: ok, so what suggestions do you have?
[20:47] <Lartza> red9, Right, and then you are left with namebrands unfortunately and those are expensive, but yeah
[20:47] <mfa298> JessicaRN: this looks to be at the routing level rather than NAT. (and I've never used dnsmasq so I'm noy sure what it can do)
[20:47] <Lartza> Also I am sure there is at least one chinese multimeter manufacturer out there that does actual expensive mains rated meters
[20:48] <JessicaRN> mfa298: ok, so, what should I try next?
[20:48] <Lartza> It's not like all of china is cheap and no good
[20:48] <red9> Lartza, sure, the question is how do you know which one it is ..
[20:49] <Lartza> Do I really have to look? :P
[20:49] <red9> Unless it's manufactured in China and say Fluke have quality inspector on site to stamp OK.
[20:49] <mfa298> JessicaRN: probably check what you're routing tables look like now (in case they changed between the various other tables). I'd also suggest sketching out how things are setup as that can often help in working things out.
[20:50] * ali1234 (~ali1234@2a01:4f8:162:4348::2) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[20:50] <mfa298> possibly also look at where the default route is set and check there's not a silly mistake in there (you shouldn't need to specify which interface)
[20:50] <Lartza> red9, My point was really that Fluke could be a chinese company and do good multimeters, it's all about the company not the country
[20:51] <Lartza> All of the good companies seem to be in taiwan, korea etc though... :P
[20:51] <Lartza> If not in germany or US
[20:51] <red9> It's about culture and work ethic. Which local culture usually influence.
[20:52] <mfa298> JessicaRN: it might also be worth checking ping from the pi works.
[20:53] <JessicaRN> mfa298: https://pastebin.com/rkXN0K60
[20:53] <JessicaRN> these are my 3 config files I've messed with
[20:53] <JessicaRN> It was a bear to get the pi to see both the eth0 and the wlan0
[20:53] <Lartza> That of course plays a part, but take phones for instance and Huawei is chinese and does just well
[20:54] <Lartza> or Lenovo
[20:54] <Lartza> and huawei doesn't of course do phones only, even cutting edge stuff like 5G
[20:54] <Lartza> (5G radios)
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[20:57] <JessicaRN> mfa298: I can ping google.com but not or
[20:57] <JessicaRN> .
[20:58] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:58] <Habbie> JessicaRN, hi
[20:58] <Habbie> JessicaRN, that's special :)
[20:59] <JessicaRN> Habbie: huh?
[20:59] <Habbie> JessicaRN, you can resolve one thing -and- ping it but not ping another thing by IP
[20:59] <JessicaRN> Habbie: yeah, freaky, right?
[20:59] <Habbie> yes
[20:59] <Habbie> bbl again, sorry
[21:00] * Nizumzen (~Nizumzen@cpc120314-reig6-2-0-cust190.6-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:00] <JessicaRN> at this point I have zero clue as to what is going on with this. I did a pi2 running wheezy and had no problems. this pi3 w/ stretch is a pita
[21:00] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:01] <CarlFK> Habbie: I just joined.. can you pastebin ip a
[21:02] <JessicaRN> mfa298: are those config files right?
[21:02] <CarlFK> hmm, all of this: ip a; route -n; ping google.com and ping
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[21:06] <mfa298> JessicaRN: maybe try `traceroute -n` and see what that shows - just about to look at the last pastebin
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[21:06] * JessicaRN (6cd0b44b@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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[21:08] <JessicaRN> mfa298: I got booted. If you said something I didn't get it
[21:08] * Fulgen (~Fulgen@078132052171.public.t-mobile.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[21:08] <mfa298> JessicaRN: the gateway line in /e/n/interfaces probably shouldn't be there. As you've got things configured you might not need anything in /e/n/interfaces as it looks to be duplicating what's in the other files
[21:08] <mfa298> JessicaRN: maybe try `traceroute -n` and see what that shows - just about to look at the last pastebin
[21:09] * mjolnird (~mjolnird@2601:2c7:8200:5a1::e7ce) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:09] <mfa298> (those were written the other way around)
[21:09] <JessicaRN> mfa298: cool. ty. I'll try that. I'll brb
[21:09] <Lartza> Yeah /etc/network/interfaces isn't used if you are on stock stretch
[21:09] <Lartza> Since it now ships with dhcpcd
[21:09] <Lartza> wheezy probably does still use it
[21:10] <Lartza> Can't remember when it switched
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[21:10] <mfa298> hopefully very few people are using wheezy these days, that's not been supported by RPF for a few years now (we had Jessie in the middle which used dhcpcd)
[21:11] <Lartza> I just remember JessicaRN mentioning a wheezy rpi2 :S
[21:11] <JessicaRN> I read about that, but for the life of me I couldn't get it to work at all w/o using interfaces
[21:11] <mfa298> I think the later wheezy builds also had dhcpcd but that was a long time ago (in Pi time at least)
[21:12] <JessicaRN> ok, i got rid of the gateway in interfaces
[21:12] <JessicaRN> rebooting now
[21:13] <mfa298> JessicaRN: possibly one option that might be worth looking at is telling dhcpcd.conf to ignore eth0 and then use /e/n/interfaces to configure that. but leave dhcpcd dealing with wlan0 (and dont have references to that in /e/n/interfaces)
[21:14] <JessicaRN> ok, but first, after removing the gateway I can now ping both google and from the pi. Lemme disconnect from IRC and try it from the PC
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[21:15] <JessicaRN> mfa298: it seems to be working fine now....
[21:15] <JessicaRN> more tests coming
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[21:16] <mfa298> JessicaRN: excellent, that's where the packet captures come in handy, the ICMP redirect caused me to look closer at the routing table and see that oddity.
[21:16] <JessicaRN> mfa298: it is working perfectly after removing that gateway reference
[21:17] <JessicaRN> mfa298: tyvm, I'd buy the beers if you were in Indiana. I'll just havta drink them all myself
[21:17] * redstarcomrade (~quassel@cpe-104-175-255-182.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:17] <Habbie> yay
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[21:18] <mfa298> JessicaRN: after fighting with it for a couple of days it sounds like you deserve them ;)
[21:18] <JessicaRN> mfa298: how can I button down the table to make it work more like a firewall?
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[21:19] <JessicaRN> mfa298: and, isn't there a setting that lets me deny login to the pi from a specified port?
[21:21] <CarlFK> JessicaRN: "specified port" needs more.. um.. context? or something. What do you want?
[21:22] <mfa298> JessicaRN: I tend to add some log rules and then add rules to cover the traffic I want/dont want based on what gets logged.
[21:22] <JessicaRN> CarlFK: so, the wlan0 port is the outside on this config. Can I deny login from that port?
[21:23] <JessicaRN> mfa298: any chance you have a sample of an effective table?
[21:23] <mfa298> For SSH you can use the iptables INPUT rule to limit who can talk to it - I usually also move it onto a different high port (particularly if its open to the world)
[21:23] <Habbie> you can also tell sshd to only bind to specific IPs
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[21:24] <JessicaRN> Habbie: can't do that as the outside is dynamic ip
[21:24] <mfa298> JessicaRN: not to hand, I'm not at home at the moment. My iptables setup at home is very custom (some stuff goes through it not natted as there's a couple of things that can NAT outgoing traffic and some things need to talk to other stuff outside the linux NAT device
[21:24] <CarlFK> JessicaRN: but you don't want the outside, so that doesn't matter. What about the inside port?
[21:25] <JessicaRN> I need to be able to login from the inside, just not the outside
[21:25] <CarlFK> is the inside a static IP?
[21:25] <JessicaRN> mfa298: ok, well, you've been a ton of help already. TYVM and have a great night
[21:26] * thecoffemaker (~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[21:26] <CarlFK> JessicaRN: look at /etc/ssh/sshd_config ListenAddress - I suspect that's what you want
[21:27] <JessicaRN> CarlFK: Internet (w/ dynamic ip) <> rpi wlan0 dynamic <>iptables<> rpi eth0 static <> router static <> my inside lan dynamic
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[21:28] <CarlFK> JessicaRN: right. rpi eth0 static. ListenAddress= or whatever the static IP is.
[21:30] <CarlFK> er, no =.
[21:31] * tnewman2 (~tnewman@114-36-4-142.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:31] <CarlFK> also, there are tons of howto secure debian - I would skim a few of them until you find one you like
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[21:52] <_Trullo> ok, I'm a dumbass, sorry for the trouble I caused.
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[22:01] <zleap> it works with 2.5 even though i get the lightnining under power thing up
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[22:09] <phoenixbyrd> where is the config.txt file? Do I need to power down the pi and access it from the sd on another pc?
[22:10] * akk (~akkana@ Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[22:10] <ebarch> phoenixbyrd: it's in /boot
[22:11] <ebarch> you don't have to power down :)
[22:11] <ebarch> but changes won't be reflected until you reboot
[22:12] <phoenixbyrd> ok thanks
[22:12] <ebarch> FYI the partition or "drive" that you normally see when you pop your Pi's SD card into another computer is what gets mounted at /boot when the Pi powers up
[22:13] <ebarch> it's a FAT32 partition, so you can see it on Windows
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[22:27] <CarlFK> phoenixbyrd: you might be interested in this script i am hacking on (mostly the URLs at the top) http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/CBHVMh6p3B/
[22:31] * Jekotia_1 (~Jekotia@CPE9050cad577e3-CM9050cad577e0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[22:32] <Voop> when i vncviewer into the pi the window sizes dont match up i guess
[22:33] <Voop> theres more stuff beyond the bottom of the screen that i cant get to
[22:35] <Voop> vncviewer -geometry abcx123 doesnt work
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[22:44] <phoenixbyrd> CarlFK, I'm comfortable with linux to use daily, install, uninstall apps etc, but not very knowledgeable overall. whats that script do?
[22:45] <CarlFK> phoenixbyrd: flases the SD, and then tweaks a few things, like "enable sshd"
[22:46] <CarlFK> 1/2 of it is dealing with mounting/unmounting the stuff that gets auto mounted when you insert the card
[22:47] * AbouEmre (~Thunderbi@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:50] <phoenixbyrd> ah ok, cool
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[23:00] * Voop (~bob@c-73-178-90-123.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[23:01] <Voop> okay well the pi's hdmi port is broken for some reason
[23:01] <Voop> makes a beeping sound when connected
[23:01] <Voop> so i have to fix this vnc issue
[23:02] * shantorn (~shantorn@184-100-246-242.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:03] <BurtyB> Voop, have you tried changing the resolution in raspi-config or are you not using realvnc?
[23:04] <Voop> im using vncviewer, which i believe is realvnc
[23:05] <Voop> trying raspi-config resolution thing
[23:06] * lyakh (~lyakh@cable-84-44-207-71.netcologne.de) Quit (Quit: thanks, bye)
[23:06] <Voop> has anyone had this issue with hdmi? its a new one for me
[23:06] <Voop> its making a beeping/whining sound
[23:06] <Voop> and all the lights turned off
[23:08] * Logicwax (~Logicwax@c-76-126-174-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[23:08] <Voop> BurtyB: appears to be working
[23:09] <Voop> i got more of the screen but not all. trying higher resolutions
[23:12] <Voop> worked. i now have x86 on the pi0
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[23:30] <Voop> its going to take 12 years to get everything installed to run one app
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[23:45] <tempate> Hello. I'm trying to program an EEPROM (28C16A) using my RPi 2. I've found a similar implementation to what I'm looking online but it doesn't seem to work. It's the first time I do anything with the RPi so I'm kinda lost. Can someone please help me out? Here is the code: https://bpaste.net/show/3925850edb9b
[23:47] <tempate> What I doubt the most is not the code but rather the way in which I should write to the pi
[23:48] <tempate> r/pi/eeprom/
[23:49] <CarlFK> tempate: you need to give details about "doesn't seem to work"
[23:50] <tempate> When I try to read the values (on a manually built breadboard) it returns all 1s instead of what it's supposed to
[23:51] <CarlFK> do you have rom you can use to see if it can read data?
[23:52] <Rickta59> don't you have to erase it before you write it?
[23:53] <tempate> CarlFK: Not really. I've programmed some EEPROMs manually but I was hoping to accelerate the process with the pi.
[23:54] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@2a01cb0401d17200a582859fb1ef35f9.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[23:55] <Rickta59> tempate: I don't see where you are pulsing the we pin
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[23:55] <tempate> Rickta59: yes, the thing is that the erasing code is fairly similar
[23:55] <tempate> I'm not. Is that a thing?
[23:56] <Voop> 50 minutes into updating the unix x86
[23:56] <Rickta59> have you looked at any arduino code that does this type of thing?
[23:56] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@2a01cb0401d17200a582859fb1ef35f9.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:56] <Rickta59> https://github.com/beneater/eeprom-programmer/blob/master/eeprom-programmer/eeprom-programmer.ino#L41
[23:56] <Rickta59> seems like to write you set the pins and then toggle we
[23:56] * immibis (~chatzilla@222-155-160-32-fibre.bb.spark.co.nz) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:57] <Rickta59> * have not done this
[23:57] <tempate> mhm, let me have a look
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