#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2018-06-06

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:06] <Voop> heres a question for you guys
[0:07] <Voop> has nothing to do with rpi's
[0:07] <Voop> https://github.com/martin-ger/esp_wifi_repeater
[0:07] * jerryq (~jerryq@ Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[0:08] <Voop> what type of esp8266 is required for that
[0:08] * willc (~willc@unaffiliated/willc) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:08] <Voop> https://www.fasttech.com/products/1099/10012385/3676905-esp8266-esp-202-wi-fi-wireless-serial-port-data ?
[0:09] * greggerz (~greggerz@unaffiliated/greggerz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:13] * orti (~orti@p5DE56BB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:13] <erm3nda> Voop, docs says which models of wifi cards has to be used
[0:14] <erm3nda> esp8266 and esp8285
[0:15] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[0:15] * paiton (~paul@ip98-165-105-88.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:15] <AppAraat> Voop: could you pls reupload to imgur or something? I can't view tinypic links.
[0:17] * orti (~orti@p5DE56BB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:23] * dreamon__ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[0:24] <erm3nda> wow, the esp8266 looks amazing :-) a wifi repeater for so low. that project from marting-ger is amazing.
[0:28] <BHX> been a while since I last used the esp8266, pretty much only using the esp32 now >_<
[0:29] <BHX> Shit... I might have to contact qualcom or comfilepi in order to get a bootloader that can display an image on the rpi3 :(
[0:30] <BHX> Or is there anybody in here who can modify the raspberry pi 3 bootloader in order to check the sd card for an image file, and display that image to the screen if the file exists?
[0:31] * orti (~orti@p5DE56BB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:31] <BHX> *-comfilepi => comfiletechnology
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[0:35] * orti (~orti@p5DE56BB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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[0:41] * kuzeyron (~amadeusxn@host-121-25.parnet.fi) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:43] <Voop> AppAraat: https://i.imgur.com/P44Q5sJ.jpg
[0:44] <Voop> erm3nda: yeah, but is the thing i linked what is meant by "esp8266 module"
[0:44] <Voop> theres like 1,000,000 modules which include an esp8266
[0:45] <Voop> i have no idea if i need extra hardware or the bare esp8266 and a power supply is enough
[0:45] <erm3nda> which include
[0:45] <erm3nda> u said
[0:45] <erm3nda> so, avoid pcb which include
[0:45] <AppAraat> oh that looks pretty nifty. I wonder if I could run those kinds of wires all the way to the DAC
[0:45] <erm3nda> and go for the main piece, esp8266
[0:45] <erm3nda> which is a wifi module with microprocessor included
[0:45] <erm3nda> look wikipedia
[0:47] * Have-Quick (~aaron@c-71-205-242-88.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[0:47] <BHX> Those are the official modules: https://www.espressif.com/en/products/hardware/modules
[0:48] <erm3nda> yes
[0:48] <erm3nda> that's tha manufacturer
[0:48] <erm3nda> esp -> espressif
[0:49] * vaft (~vaft@cpe-24-211-192-145.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:50] <erm3nda> i think that even the "made for arduino esp8266" will work -> https://s1.qwant.com/thumbr/0x0/3/9/385760cb71529481cbb4670a1845c7c10485d915bdcc4846048a8a090d19d5/ESP8266-WI07c-Wifi-Module-02.jpg?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.electrodragon.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2FESP8266-WI07c-Wifi-Module-02.jpg&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1
[0:51] <erm3nda> in theory it is the module itself capable to run the program
[0:51] <erm3nda> i think the uart is also included
[0:51] * orti (~orti@p5DE56BB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:51] <BHX> Yes, the datasheet is on the website
[0:56] * vaft (~vaft@cpe-24-211-192-145.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:56] <Voop> BHX: those dont look anything like the chinese ones
[0:57] <erm3nda> BHX, yes, i saw it in datasheet right now
[0:57] <erm3nda> in theory you should be able to bunr that firmware in any based esp8266 wifi
[0:58] <erm3nda> i think im gonna buy the v3 asap
[0:59] <erm3nda> seems there are 5 submodels of the esp8266
[0:59] <erm3nda> good start point http://www.instructables.com/id/ESP8266-mini-Tutorial/
[1:00] <erm3nda> 5eur wifi chip + 1€ bios battery = wifi repeater :-)
[1:00] * orti (~orti@p5DE56BB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[1:02] <BHX> You mean the battery in order to power the unit?
[1:04] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[1:05] <Voop> its probably the worst wifi repeater of all time
[1:05] <Voop> but it apparently works as one, which is amazing
[1:05] <BHX> It doesn't work as a wifi repeater on 1.8V 10mA ;P
[1:05] <Voop> ive done a wifi repeater with a pi zero but it requires a $15 wifi dongle
[1:09] <erm3nda> Voop, does yout wifi repeater change between ap's ?
[1:10] * orti (~orti@p5DE56BB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:10] <erm3nda> BHX bios battery is 3v
[1:11] <erm3nda> https://www.amazon.es/Maxell-Cr2025-pilas-Litio-color/dp/B002E0DSBW
[1:12] <Voop> erm3nda: what do you mean
[1:12] <erm3nda> 170mAh, 170h in idle status
[1:12] <erm3nda> Voop, i mean that if your repeater connects to a various wifi sources. ie: when wifi_1 doesnt work go to wifi_2
[1:13] <erm3nda> something like the automesh
[1:13] <Voop> i would like to see an example of someone powering an esp with a button cell
[1:13] <erm3nda> :-/ esp has to be connected to 3.3v
[1:13] <Voop> erm3nda: no it doesnt do that currently, but that was in the plans
[1:14] <erm3nda> i doutb it doesnt power on with just 3v...
[1:14] <erm3nda> i tried with hostapd, but hostapd itself doesn't cover such thing
[1:14] <Voop> at the moment you gotta manually connect the pi to wifi
[1:14] <erm3nda> also, my wifi dongle is shit and refused to work with vlan, so i must use 2 wifi dongles to make it work
[1:14] <Voop> and put in what you want the ssid and password to be in a text file
[1:14] <Voop> then run it
[1:15] <erm3nda> does pi zero w support vlan?
[1:15] <Voop> im going to eventually add auto connecting and auto password entering
[1:15] * orti (~orti@p5DE56BB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[1:15] <erm3nda> im not sure of what you did Voop
[1:15] <erm3nda> a wrapper around hostapd?
[1:15] * nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) Quit (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)
[1:15] <erm3nda> there's cli tool for that already made
[1:16] <Voop> it works essentially the same way as if you had two wifi dongles
[1:16] <erm3nda> https://github.com/oblique/create_ap
[1:16] <erm3nda> that tool works around hostapd, does all the background stuff for you
[1:17] <erm3nda> using 1 dongle as if they was 2 is done using vlan, but the dongle has to support it
[1:17] <erm3nda> most of they does, not the 8€ eur crappy ones :-(
[1:17] <Voop> yeah the dongle has to support atheros
[1:17] <Voop> i use a Dlink one. $15 on amazon
[1:17] <erm3nda> is not all about of monitor mode nor something
[1:18] <erm3nda> is about chip capability of vlan, so it can act as "many" chips
[1:18] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[1:18] <erm3nda> i think both my chips are capable to run in monitor mode with atheros drivers
[1:18] <Voop> as for 3.3v for the esp
[1:18] <erm3nda> but none of them did work as repeater without a 2nd dongle
[1:18] <Voop> you could use a button cell and a teeny tiny boost converter
[1:18] * orti (~orti@p5DE56BB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:19] <erm3nda> why a boost?
[1:19] <Voop> since the button cell is 3v
[1:19] <erm3nda> do you think that esp will not turn on just because ~0.3 v difference?
[1:19] <Voop> well it would probably be better to give it 3.5v or something
[1:19] <erm3nda> doubt
[1:19] <Voop> well theres only one way to find out
[1:19] <erm3nda> is intended to connect to gpio, which will be 5v or 3.3
[1:20] <erm3nda> so, there's a 3.3 because of that
[1:20] <erm3nda> im sure it works with less than 3.3
[1:20] <erm3nda> im gonna see the datasheet again
[1:20] <Voop> i do have an esp8266 module, but its soldered to a board already
[1:21] <erm3nda> Operating Voltage 3.0~3.6V
[1:21] <erm3nda> so, im fine with button battery
[1:21] <erm3nda> if you need high wifi power up to 19dbm sure you need to supply more :-)
[1:22] <Voop> whats the voltage range of those button cells though
[1:22] <Voop> is 3v nominal like larger lipos
[1:22] * jerryq (~jerryq@2601:1c0:6101:be7a:34c5:d669:6d39:8a5b) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:22] <Voop> also how much power does the esp consume with a load
[1:22] <erm3nda> yes, it will decrease when battery is around 60%
[1:23] <Voop> 170mAh is not a lot
[1:23] <erm3nda> 80mAh i saw
[1:23] <erm3nda> onyl 1mAh in iddle
[1:23] <Voop> so like 2 hours maybe
[1:23] <erm3nda> just 2 hous
[1:23] <erm3nda> yes
[1:23] <BHX> My point was that a button cell can only supply like 10mA
[1:23] * orti (~orti@p5DE56BB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:23] <Voop> and you cant recharge button cells
[1:23] <erm3nda> mmmm
[1:23] <BHX> before the voltage heavily breaks down
[1:24] <Voop> yeah erm3nda means mA, not mAh
[1:24] <Voop> so you wouldnt have the needed current
[1:24] <Voop> and the voltage would probably sag anyway
[1:24] <BHX> Yea, I know, but the cell only being able to supply 10mA means the module will restart everytime it tries to send ;)
[1:24] <erm3nda> where did you see the button supply?
[1:25] * redrum88 (~Helder@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:25] <BHX> http://data.energizer.com/pdfs/cr2025.pdf
[1:26] <BHX> Internal Resistance Characteristics
[1:27] <erm3nda> lol
[1:28] <BHX> You can of course use a large elko to buffer that voltage
[1:28] <erm3nda> you need to chain 8 batts :D
[1:28] <erm3nda> the better to use a phone battery
[1:28] <erm3nda> 3,7v
[1:29] <erm3nda> little resistance if needed to avoid peaks
[1:29] <erm3nda> but is good, you can turn any phone charger into phone-charger+wifi repeater :-)
[1:30] <erm3nda> definitely im gonna buy 1 or 2 esp8266 (2 because for sure ill fry the 1)
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[3:08] <choscura> AppAraat++
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[4:56] * {HD} (nichts@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/hd/x-06969157) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[4:56] * Have-Quick (~aaron@c-71-205-242-88.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:56] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-142-46-233.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[4:56] * markopasha (~cc@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:01] * {HD} (nichts@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/hd/x-06969157) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:05] * Ivoah (uid49352@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kxnncfxoiilvbnds) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[5:15] * Jinx (Dojo@unaffiliated/jinx) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:18] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:21] * Silversword (silverswor@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:21] * Silversword (silverswor@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:21] * Silversword (silverswor@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:22] * stiv (~steve@blender/coder/stivs) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[5:23] * sdothum (~znc@dsl-173-206-72-241.tor.primus.ca) Quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.0 - https://znc.in)
[5:24] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[5:26] * xamindar_ (~quassel@035-134-097-050.static.chtrptr.net) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[5:29] * kushal- is now known as kushal
[5:30] * xamindar (~quassel@035-134-097-050.static.chtrptr.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:36] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:41] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
[5:41] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[5:41] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[5:43] * marlinc (~marlinc@ Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[5:43] * tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:53] * CyberManifest (~CyberMani@r74-192-49-147.vctrcmta01.vctatx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[5:57] * BeamWatcher (~gashead76@ Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[6:03] * sigsts (~sigsts@unaffiliated/skyroverr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:03] * X230t (~Funk@unaffiliated/funk) Quit (Quit: I probably fell asleep again)
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[6:08] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:09] * sigsts (~sigsts@unaffiliated/skyroverr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[6:13] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[6:13] * sigsts (~sigsts@unaffiliated/skyroverr) has joined #raspberrypi
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[6:22] * baldengineer (~cmiyc@unaffiliated/cmiyc) Quit (Quit: Connection reset by beer)
[6:24] * tvm (~tvm@router-sever1-nat-m.pilsfree.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:28] * camfl (~flyaway@135-23-103-117.cpe.pppoe.ca) Quit (Quit: %flyaway%)
[6:30] * camfl (~flyaway@135-23-103-117.cpe.pppoe.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:34] * Tipping_Fedora (~Tipping_F@unaffiliated/tipping-fedora/x-7828765) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:37] * giddles (~giddles@unaffiliated/giddles) Quit (Quit: gn9)
[6:41] * u-ou is now known as no-name
[6:41] * no-name is now known as u-ou
[6:43] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-142-46-233.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:48] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-142-46-233.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[6:51] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ has joined #raspberrypi
[6:52] * Smeef (~deathonat@unaffiliated/smeef) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[6:59] * redstarcomrade (~quassel@cpe-104-175-255-182.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[7:00] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:00] * jkridner|pd (~jkridner@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:00] <iKarith> Is this really the "proper" way to do this? The idea of modifying package-owned files in /lib bugs me: https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-rtc/ steps 6 and 7.
[7:00] * Tipping_Fedora (~Tipping_F@unaffiliated/tipping-fedora/x-7828765) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:02] * Bercik (~Yotsuba@unaffiliated/bercik) Quit (Excess Flood)
[7:03] * Bercik (~Yotsuba@unaffiliated/bercik) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:07] <iKarith> Every link I find seems to involve either something in rc.local to replace fake-hwclock or modifying files in /lib. I'm sure there's a way to do this right they're just not doing. Probably enabling something in systemd Raspbian disables by default.
[7:08] * goiko (~goiko@unaffiliated/goiko) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[7:10] * mike_t (~mike_t@ has joined #raspberrypi
[7:12] * Jinx (Dojo@unaffiliated/jinx) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:15] * azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[7:21] * DrJ (DrJ@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/drj) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[7:24] * TheCryptek (~TheCrypte@ircbouncehouse.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving the IRC world for now.)
[7:24] * Kamilion (kamilion@botters/Kamilion) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[7:25] * Kamilion (kamilion@botters/Kamilion) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:27] * xar- (xar-@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe24:4661) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[7:29] * xar- (xar-@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe24:4661) has joined #raspberrypi
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[7:29] * mumixam (~m@unaffiliated/mumixam) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[7:35] <iKarith> Answering my own question from RPi-Distro/pi-gen file stage2/01-sys-tweaks/01-run.sh:systemctl disable hwclock.sh
[7:36] * TheCryptek (~TheCrypte@2607:fe90:4:b:5054::30) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:36] <iKarith> The correct way to unbreak hwclock would not be to modify the udev script to run whether systemd is running or not, it's to re-enable /etc/init.d/hwclock.sh which pi-gen disabled because the Pi has no hwclock.
[7:39] * mumixam (~m@unaffiliated/mumixam) has joined #raspberrypi
[7:40] <iKarith> See, for many hacks and things described as "oh just modify the package installed on the local system in a way that will break the first time the package gets upgraded" described on a dozen websites, there's one way to do it that doesn't break shituff if people actually understood what they were doing.
[7:40] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[7:48] * stivs (~steve@blender/coder/stivs) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[7:50] * Neros (~Neros@31-32-241-72.abo.bbox.fr) Quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.github.io)
[7:58] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[7:59] * DrJ (DrJ@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/drj) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[8:04] * DrJ (DrJ@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/drj) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:07] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:14] * Neros (~Neros@31-32-241-72.abo.bbox.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:20] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[8:27] * drzacek (~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[8:29] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:30] * mike_t (~mike_t@ Quit (Quit: Ухожу я от вас)
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[8:33] * aballier (~alexis@gentoo/developer/aballier) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:37] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:38] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[8:39] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[8:48] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[8:51] * djsxxx_away is now known as Dave_MMP
[8:52] * nshire (~nealshire@unaffiliated/nealshire) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[8:52] * paiton (~paul@ip98-165-105-88.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:52] * skroon (~skroon@62-216-1-157.ip.xs4all.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:52] <skroon> I would like to anonymously count people via wifi or ble on a raspberry pi, anyone has experience with this?
[8:56] * dreamon__ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[8:59] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:09] * willy23123 (~willy2312@86-42-103-154-dynamic.agg2.lky.bge-rtd.eircom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:11] * Have-Quick (~aaron@c-71-205-242-88.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Have-Quick)
[9:13] * willy23123 (~willy2312@86-42-103-154-dynamic.agg2.lky.bge-rtd.eircom.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[9:14] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[9:17] * avenger (~arch@unaffiliated/avenger) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[9:18] * GenteelBen (GenteelBen@cpc129112-lutn14-2-0-cust66.know.cable.virginm.net) Quit ()
[9:25] * tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[9:26] * tchan (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:28] * clemens3 (~clemens@mx.eniso-partners.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[9:43] <iKarith> My other wishlist for RPi 4 is a return to the spring-loaded micro-SD socket. I've lost more of those little buggers when the tweezers slip and send the things flying almost regardless of case.
[9:43] <iKarith> if it's in a case, you need tweezers. Grippy ones.
[9:45] * jmcgnh (~jmcgnh@wikipedia/jmcgnh) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[9:50] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[9:58] * orti (~orti@p5DE567D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[10:05] * davr0s (~textual@host86-157-70-142.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:05] * Armand (~armand@office.prgn.misp.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:05] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-142-46-233.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:10] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-142-46-233.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[10:10] * DeadKaptain (~quassel@unaffiliated/dogs) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:11] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:12] * BOKALDO (~BOKALDO@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[10:22] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:29] * cute_korean_girl (~cute_kore@ Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[10:29] * orti_ (~orti@p5DE5622A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[10:29] * orti (~orti@p5DE5622A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:34] * sigsts (~sigsts@unaffiliated/skyroverr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[10:35] * uksio (~uksio@p200300CB1BC4F465F8B56CF0D7FAB47C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:36] * m0j0dj0dj0 (~punk3r@unaffiliated/m0j0dj0dj0) has joined #raspberrypi
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[10:38] * uks (~uksio@p200300CB1BC4F42AF8B56CF0D7FAB47C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[10:40] <gordonDrogon> it was removed because too many people were corrupting SD cards through accidental ejection...
[10:41] <Armand> Accidental whatnow ?
[10:41] <Armand> OOohhhh... My bad..
[10:43] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[10:44] <gordonDrogon> skroon, people don't like being tracked, so, yes, it is possible (didn't we discuss this here recently?), but who's going to help you who won't keep the ken and $ to themselves ...
[10:45] * win0err (~win0err@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[10:46] * kuzeyron (~amadeusxn@host-121-25.parnet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
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[10:47] * jamesmcm (~jamesmcm@cli-5b7ecf13.ast.adamo.es) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:04] * hotpot33 (~hotpot33@unaffiliated/hotpot33) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:10] * TheFatherMind- (~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:12] * DeadKaptain (~quassel@unaffiliated/dogs) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[11:12] * TheFatherMind (~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[11:15] * TheFatherMind- (~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[11:20] * davr0s (~textual@host86-157-70-142.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[11:21] * orti_ (~orti@p5DE562FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:22] * orti (~orti@p5DE5622A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[11:25] * davr0s (~textual@host86-157-70-142.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:38] * nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) Quit (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)
[11:43] * Kaptain (~quassel@unaffiliated/dogs) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[11:45] * davr0s (~textual@host86-157-70-142.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[11:46] * sloth is now known as Viper-8
[11:47] * win0err (~win0err@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[11:50] * Armand is now known as Viper-24-7
[11:51] * Viper-24-7 is now known as Armand
[11:51] <katnip> Armand: you are everywhere
[11:51] <Armand> lol
[11:52] <Armand> I am everything
[11:52] <katnip> still play wow? lol
[11:52] <Armand> Never have
[11:53] <katnip> didn't you used to be in that channel?
[11:53] <katnip> other network
[11:53] <Armand> Not me
[11:53] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[11:53] <katnip> ahh ok
[11:53] <katnip> in mac?
[11:54] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:54] <katnip> no?
[11:54] <katnip> well wtf have i seen you so much
[11:55] <Armand> I've been on Freenode well over 10 years.
[11:55] * Viper-8 is now known as sloth
[11:55] <katnip> me too
[11:55] <Armand> :)
[11:55] <katnip> since '99
[11:56] <katnip> my ident was my nick, i just recently changed nicks, eventually ill change the ident too
[11:58] <katnip> any channel in particular you sat in for as a regular for some time?
[11:59] * s8548a (~s8548a@unaffiliated/s8548a) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:59] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:00] * rafalcpp (~racalcppp@84-10-11-234.static.chello.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:00] <katnip> no?
[12:02] <katnip> ok...
[12:02] * lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPE64777d632383-CM64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:02] * DeadKaptain (~quassel@unaffiliated/dogs) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:06] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-142-46-233.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:08] <Armand> Sorry, katnip.. I'm at work. :P
[12:09] * davr0s (~textual@host86-157-70-142.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:09] <Armand> Typically here, ##hardware, ##linux, etc.
[12:11] * gbaman (~gbaman@host81-142-46-233.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[12:14] * bigrattus (~RaTTuSBIG@37.152-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) Quit ()
[12:15] * jamesmcm (~jamesmcm@cli-5b7ecf13.ast.adamo.es) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[12:17] * RaTTuS|BIG (~RaTTuSBIG@37.152-253-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:17] * ChanServ sets mode +o RaTTuS|BIG
[12:17] * ChanServ sets mode -o RaTTuS|BIG
[12:18] <katnip> ahh ok, that is where i've seen you lately then Armand :) but not for a while
[12:20] <katnip> Armand: do you mind if i ask what distro you run? (i know you're busy)
[12:23] <seek^126> is github now dead? will ms kill it? :O
[12:24] <katnip> doubt it
[12:26] * Neo_ is now known as Neo
[12:30] <HrdwrBoB> seek^126: that's hardly the point
[12:33] * drz3k (~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:35] * drzacek (~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:40] <red9> GitHub have 15 095 457 repositories. GitLab had a constant 1900 repositories imported per day. But since 2018-06-03 the import rate has gone up to 38 000/day. If the future is linear. GitHub will be empty within a year. https://monitor.gitlab.net/dashboard/db/github-importer?orgId=1
[12:41] <red9> Seems GitHub have 28 million repositories. So that it will take two years. https://github.com/search?q=is:public
[12:43] * Hideyoshi (~Hideyoshi@ has joined #raspberrypi
[12:45] <Draylor> heh, if nonsense assumption then madness ;)
[12:46] * khadna (3eeb7409@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[12:46] <Draylor> it had 2 mini-spikes due to the 'rumour' & announcement before dropping back to 0, no need to get excited
[12:46] <khadna> hello
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[12:47] * davr0s (~textual@host86-157-70-142.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[12:47] * Volis (uid12493@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-knkmddmvofdmygrm) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[12:47] <khadna> can a raspberry run a small sound device like the steinberg UR22 with 5V, 500mA, 2,5W?
[12:47] <khadna> I have got the raspberry 3b+
[12:48] * lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPE64777d632383-CM64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:49] <khadna> I would have to install the software to run it as well, but I am more concerned about the electricity because the sound device only has the option to be controlled and supplied through one USB-connector
[12:51] <red9> khadna, If it follows the USB spec and the Pi can handle 2 ampere ontop of selfload. Then it should be ok.
[12:51] <red9> Draylor, temporary dip. Besides, GitLab is not the only competitor.
[12:52] <khadna> red9 thank you, but I am sorry I do not understand what means "if it follows the USB spec"?
[12:54] <red9> USB spec, each device may only use 5 V 500 mA.
[12:56] <khadna> ok thank you, I learned this now :)
[12:59] <ShorTie> a '3B+ with 5V, 500mA', might boot, but not run much
[12:59] <Armand> katnip: Mint 17 at work, intending to go to 18 soon.. Win7/Mint18 dual-boot at home.
[13:01] <katnip> Armand: nice, i run kubuntu 18.04 LTS myself, i ran Mint for a bit
[13:01] * lysanderx (~lysanderx@ip24-254-57-19.br.br.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:01] <Armand> Mint Cinnamon just runs well on all my hardware.. I have 17.3 on an old (2004) Pentium M laptop and the same in a desktop.
[13:03] <Armand> http://gallery.baked-pi.co.uk/index.php/Pentium-M-beasty
[13:03] <katnip> i liked Cinnamon as well as KDE Plasma when I had it. i run kind of old laptops
[13:04] <Armand> I got an old Acer P4 workstation from a film studio, so I used the case, PSU and heatsink for the desktop Pentium M
[13:04] * sinatrablue (~sinatrabl@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[13:06] <khadna> ShorTie what do you mean please?
[13:06] <red9> ShorTie, This is about getting power out of Pi USB-A connectors. Not powering the Pi itself.
[13:07] <red9> Though.. Pi current + additional 2 A from USB devices. That might be a really hot micro-USB ;)
[13:07] * dr3w_ (~dr3w_@abercs/dr3w) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:08] <katnip> Armand: very good pics, i regret not taking pics of the one i built 10 yrs ago
[13:08] <Armand> :)
[13:09] <khadna> What I plan to do: run on the 3b+ a daily scheduled program of two alternating full hd videos in a program with a sound device and projector connected by HDMI.
[13:09] <HrdwrBoB> https://github.com/hrdwrbob/eingauge/blob/master/wiring.md
[13:09] <Draylor> hah
[13:09] <HrdwrBoB> huzzah, documentation
[13:09] <khadna> you think it can work?
[13:09] <HrdwrBoB> khadna: sure
[13:10] <Draylor> not sure the term competitor is justified then gitlab has yet to reach 1% of the repository count, just crazy kiddies overreacting so far :)
[13:12] <khadna> thank you HrdwrBoB
[13:13] <khadna> the problem is I am still stuck with step 1: "STICKY: Is your Pi not booting? (The Boot Problems Sticky)"
[13:16] <khadna> the red electricity led lights up but the green ACT led doesn't do anything
[13:17] <khadna> I now try with second SD card. Is there a difference running a pi with SD card or mini SD?
[13:18] <khadna> no, also with the second SD card nothing happens
[13:18] <khadna> it seems to be properly flashed
[13:18] * lysanderx (~lysanderx@ip24-254-57-19.br.br.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[13:20] <khadna> it should work with a usb 3.0 card reader, shouldn't it?
[13:20] <HrdwrBoB> tyeah
[13:20] * lysanderx (~lysanderx@ip24-254-57-19.br.br.cox.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:21] <khadna> so, absolutely no screen (black, not even the rainbow sign flashing up) when trying to boot and absolutely no ACT light activity, just red light turning on
[13:21] <khadna> :(
[13:22] * khadna (3eeb7409@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip. Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[13:34] <khadna> re
[13:36] <khadna> using 2018-04-18-raspbian-stretch.img
[13:36] * Tolnaiz (~tolnaiz@mail.ferling.hu) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:36] <shiftplusone> khadna: how are you flashing it?
[13:37] * Fulgen (~Fulgen@078132043014.public.t-mobile.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:37] <khadna> how can I check if the boot flag is set ON?
[13:38] <shiftplusone> boot flag doesn't do anything on the pi
[13:38] <shiftplusone> but if you want to check anyway fdisk -l /dev/blah will tell you
[13:38] * Tolnaiz (~tolnaiz@mail.ferling.hu) Quit (Client Quit)
[13:38] <khadna> because in osx the disk tool says that the 45,2 MB FAT32 boot partition is "NO"
[13:39] <khadna> shiftplusone "illegal option -- l" maybe bcs it is osx?
[13:40] <shiftplusone> yeah, osx tools tend to be incompatible
[13:40] <khadna> ;)
[13:41] <khadna> "fdisk: could not open MBR file /usr/standalone/i386/boot0: No such file or directory"
[13:41] <khadna> I tried "fdisk -r"
[13:41] <shiftplusone> why /usr/... ?
[13:42] <khadna> strange I don't know
[13:42] <shiftplusone> But again, it doesn't matter whether the boot flag is set.
[13:42] <shiftplusone> Have you tried using Etcher to flash the card? That tends to just work.
[13:42] <khadna> no, because etcher download took 1 hour
[13:42] <khadna> the server was too slow
[13:43] * aaa__ (~aaa__@unaffiliated/km9k62tkuq) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:43] <khadna> but I downloaded the experminetal CLI, you think that might work?
[13:43] <shiftplusone> How are you flashing it exactly?
[13:43] <khadna> using the dd command
[13:44] <shiftplusone> What's the exact command you're using
[13:44] <shiftplusone> with parameters
[13:44] <khadna> sudo dd bs=1m if=2018-04-18-raspbian-stretch.img of=/dev/rdisk2 conv=sync
[13:45] <shiftplusone> looks okay
[13:45] <shiftplusone> unmounted before starting the write?
[13:45] <khadna> yes
[13:45] <shiftplusone> =/
[13:46] <khadna> diskutil unmountDisk /dev/disk2
[13:46] <khadna> but today etcher dl went fast and now I am trying it with etcher
[13:46] <shiftplusone> that should probably be disk2 and then an asterisk (disk2*)
[13:46] <shiftplusone> but yeah... etcher should do everything automatically and just work.
[13:47] <khadna> ah yeah, I didn't think about the asterisk
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[13:48] * egilhh (~egilhh@186.81-167-3.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[13:50] <khadna> the same: nothing happens when turning on raspberry
[13:50] <khadna> could it be DOA even if the red led turns on?
[13:51] <khadna> I use a lexar usb 3.0 cardreader and a SanDisk Extreme Pro 32gb HC II 3 SD card
[13:51] <khadna> did I do anything basically wrong?
[13:51] * sdoherty (sdoherty@nat/redhat/x-knkfookmmbzzmwrn) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:51] <shiftplusone> unlikely, given that they're tested at the production line. But it doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong either
[13:52] <shiftplusone> does etcher verify the write successfully?
[13:54] <khadna> oh I didn't look for that, it just asked me if I want to flash the next sd card directly
[13:54] * egilhh (~egilhh@186.81-167-3.customer.lyse.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:55] <khadna> ah yes, but it says "Flash complete!" and "one successful device"
[13:56] <shiftplusone> =(
[13:56] <khadna> I dl the img through a torrent, could that be another cause?
[13:56] <shiftplusone> The only thing I can think of is incompatible card or dead pi.
[13:56] <shiftplusone> shouldn't matter
[13:56] <shiftplusone> same file
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[14:35] * repys (c2887356@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[14:35] <repys> nfs or SMB to share raid1 external disk via VPN?
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[14:47] <BurtyB> repys, depends what's on the other end imho
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[14:57] * DrJ (DrJ@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/drj) Quit (Disconnected by services)
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[15:01] <BCMM> repys: nfs for very overhead, smb for compatibility
[15:02] <BCMM> (also, is security an issue or is it basically a fully-trusted network?)
[15:02] * sigsts (~sigsts@unaffiliated/skyroverr) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:02] <BCMM> ^for very low overhead, i meant to say
[15:02] <repys> I want to share a ext4 external disk over vpn using samba because I use mac and win and linux
[15:03] <repys> would it work right?
[15:03] <BCMM> it should do, yes
[15:04] <BCMM> repys: as you were told on ##linux, where the files are actually stored doesn't matter a bit to nfs or smb
[15:04] <repys> all right
[15:04] <BCMM> that layer doesn't know or need to know that you have a RAID or ext4 disk
[15:05] <BCMM> (i mean strictly speaking if you used a filesystem that didn't support some operations like setting permissions or case-sensitive filenames you'd notice, but you see what i mean, i hope)
[15:05] <BurtyB> yeah some filesystems don't support being exported as nfs
[15:05] <BCMM> repys: point is, none of the technologies you've mentioned care about the other ones. a file on ext4 is just a file, and a VPN is just a LAN.
[15:06] * sigsts (~sigsts@unaffiliated/skyroverr) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:08] <BCMM> actually on compatibility, windows pro has an nfs client. but smb is certainly easier to set up on the windows end.
[15:09] <repys> ok
[15:09] <repys> is samba or NFS using encryption ?
[15:09] <repys> probably nfs not but what about samba?
[15:10] * CrazyEddy (crazyed@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:11] * GrandPa-G (~GrandPa-G@www.rgconsulting.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:12] <GrandPa-G> I have a windows pc that I need to control a light. I see something like this https://numato.com/product/8-channel-usb-gpio-module-with-analog-inputs. Since it uses a usb I wondered if anyone here has used something simliar at maybe a lower price.
[15:13] <Lartza> repys, samba can be yes, NFS needs to be tunneled to encrypt
[15:15] * Fulgen (~Fulgen@078132043014.public.t-mobile.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:15] <BCMM> Lartza: nfsv4 can be encrypted, but then the setup gets a bit fiddly
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[15:15] <Lartza> Doesn't nfsv4 just have stronger authentication?
[15:16] <Lartza> oh nfsv4 can use kerberos itself, afaik tunneling with kerberos is one of the manual solutions for nfsv3
[15:17] <BCMM> Lartza: yeah kerberos is a standard part of nfsv4. no idea if it's available on mac and windows though.
[15:20] * GraysonBriggs (~GraysonBr@206-51-126-226.up.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:21] <iKarith> gordonDrogon: seriously? I thought it was removed due to space. I guess it'll likely not be back if it was removed to keep people from pulling cards accidentally
[15:21] * Chinesium (~Funk@unaffiliated/funk) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:22] <iKarith> Armand: 10 years? :) I still remember LISC when the servers had no domain names and one of them was named root :)
[15:23] <gordonDrogon> iKarith, from what I'd read, yes, it was removed to stop people addicentally touching the sd card causing it to pop out.
[15:23] <iKarith> I haven't been around quite long enough to remember efnet.
[15:24] <iKarith> gordonDrogon: now getting it out requires tweezers and it tends to go flying when I do pop it out ;)
[15:26] <HrdwrBoB> haha
[15:26] <HrdwrBoB> I am so old
[15:27] <mfa298> iKarith: I think there was also an issue of the springs/catch breaking making the pi pretty useless as the SD card wouldn't stay in.
[15:28] * Lorduncan (~Thunderbi@ has joined #raspberrypi
[15:29] <iKarith> haven't heard of that one
[15:29] <iKarith> the only "your Pi is now useless" thing I've ever done was put 12v into one.
[15:30] <iKarith> and I think I probably didn't cook the SoC
[15:30] <lopta> iKarith: That'd probably do it! ;-)
[15:30] <H__> brute ;-)
[15:30] * darsie (~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:31] <iKarith> H__: it wasn't actually intentional
[15:32] <lopta> :-)
[15:32] * ktsamis (ktsamis@nat/novell/x-jgcprtiqdinxqubu) Quit (Quit: "Reboot")
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[15:36] <alex_giusi_tiri> GrandPa-G: I have one of those 16 channel ones and i think another 32 channel one. I myself haven't found anything else. The problem I had with them, if I remember, was that the GPIO/s either were getting reset (after being set) or that I couldn't read back the value correctly/reliably. The other options, I guess, would be to make your own implementation (what I originally thought), or use a Pi (for that price).
[15:38] * dr3w_ (~dr3w_@abercs/dr3w) Quit (Quit: https://media3.giphy.com/media/3oKIPsx2VAYAgEHC12/giphy.gif)
[15:38] <pksato> GrandPa-G: Or a arduino. Today pcs lack a easy way to interface with out side world.
[15:39] * lopta (~ball@ Quit (Quit: leaving)
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[15:48] * khadna (3eeb7409@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[15:51] <BCMM> my favorite example of that is people breaking out an i2c connection from the RAM slots on a mobo
[15:51] <BurtyB> GrandPa-G, depending on the "light" you might want a relay but you can get usb relay modules for around $5 too
[15:52] <GrandPa-G> BurtyB:It will probably be a relay since it is an industrial enviornment so the light will have to be big and bright.
[15:52] <pksato> Also, modules using FT232H or other similar chip from FTDI.
[15:53] * dreamon__ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[15:54] <pksato> I using a sound output to recicle power of a adsl modem.
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[16:28] <JimBuntu> GrandPa-G, USB -> LPT ( Parallel Printer Port ) - We used to use printer port for these kinds of tasks.
[16:29] <JimBuntu> Nowadays though... you can get Bluetooth enabled switches for lamps/etc.
[16:30] <lopta> JimBuntu: Do those expect an ACK back or do they just latch on the rising edge of /STROBE ?
[16:31] * Owner (~Owner@unaffiliated/owner) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:32] <Owner> argh, why do i keep getting ext4 errors :/
[16:32] <Owner> updatedb runs at 4:40 AM and has a tendency to trash the system
[16:32] <Lartza> Bad power supply?
[16:32] <Lartza> Do you have a screen and see the lightning icon sometimes?
[16:32] <Owner> what is a good one
[16:32] <Owner> no
[16:32] <Owner> 2.5A
[16:33] <Lartza> Is it a charger or a power supply?
[16:33] <Owner> hmmm
[16:33] <Owner> hwo do i know
[16:33] <Lartza> What did you buy it as
[16:34] <Lartza> Or the cable can be bad or too long too
[16:34] <Lartza> So many reasons for filesystem corruption but the usual one is power issues
[16:34] <BCMM> Owner: when a phone charger says 2.5A, 5V, both of those are probably true. just, not always at the same time :)
[16:34] <Lartza> Or constantly
[16:35] <BCMM> i.e. if you actually draw that much current the voltage might drop quite a bit
[16:35] <Khaytsus> Do not use a phone charger for a pi. They do not produce clean/stable enough power for a pi to be _stable_
[16:35] <Owner> 2.5a power supply
[16:35] <Owner> not a charger
[16:35] * vancha (~vancha@ip-213-127-215-89.ip.prioritytelecom.net) Quit (Quit: vancha)
[16:35] <BCMM> so even on a reasonably decent, reasonably honestly-labeled phone charger, the rated current is often not a good guide to what you can really get out of it
[16:35] <Khaytsus> Owner: What kind of sdcard?
[16:36] <Owner> one sec :)
[16:36] * goiko (~goiko@unaffiliated/goiko) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[16:36] <Owner> sandisk microsd hcI 16gb
[16:37] <BCMM> Owner: do you have any other storage attached?
[16:37] <Owner> no
[16:38] * lopta googles for a nice 4000 series latch
[16:42] <Owner> its always the same inode
[16:42] <JimBuntu> lopta, I am not positive how the USB -> LPT devices work, used to be able to latch pin state in true hardware iirc
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[16:43] <Khaytsus> Owner: always the same inode? Hve you tried a new sdcard?
[16:43] <Khaytsus> Although inode would of course refer more to a busted filesystem than hw, but
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[16:46] <lopta> JimBuntu: I should try that.
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[16:57] <Owner> Khaytsus: yeah...
[16:57] * sdoherty (sdoherty@nat/redhat/x-knkfookmmbzzmwrn) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[17:01] <programmerq> so I had a 3d printed case for a pi3b+ on the back of a monitor with a fan. My 5-yo (whose computer it's supposed to be) knocked the monitor over, crushing the case, and one of the screws holding the fan in place hit the radio chip.
[17:01] <programmerq> The pi itself is bent
[17:01] <programmerq> fortunately, it still boots, but my kid isn't likely to get it back in the near future.
[17:01] <Khaytsus> Time to get a new one
[17:02] <programmerq> not until I print a replacement case, anyway
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[17:02] <lopta> I have a VESA mount for mine but no suitable monitor for that.
[17:03] <programmerq> the monitor it is/was on is kind of a mess anyway-- it's got several stuck lines
[17:03] <lopta> oops.
[17:03] <Owner> i have a 21 inch CRT
[17:03] <Owner> i dont think a 5 year old can knock it over
[17:04] <Owner> FYI
[17:04] <programmerq> I might be investing in a commercial case that's sturdier too
[17:04] <programmerq> if I hadn't added the fan, it probably would have been fine
[17:04] <Owner> maybe bolt the monitor down
[17:04] <programmerq> or if it wasn't 3d printed PLA it wouldn't have failed
[17:05] <Owner> ive had nothing but hardware problems with these things
[17:05] <Owner> not stable enough for any kind of business product unfortunately
[17:05] <programmerq> I talked to someone who did IT at a company that had raspberry pis for customer service folks
[17:06] <programmerq> I couldn't believe it. seems like it'd make the IT department's job harder and offset any "cost savings"
[17:06] <Owner> where someone has hands on them and can reboot them when they break
[17:06] <Owner> it oculd work
[17:06] <Owner> but if they are remote and hands off
[17:06] <Owner> in the walls and such
[17:06] <Owner> you can do anything when they crash
[17:06] <Owner> cant*
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[17:07] <lopta> I've used one experimentally as a graphical terminal.
[17:08] <lopta> It needs a nice fast microSDHC card and probably a Pi 2B.
[17:08] <lopta> It's not the fastest thing but it works at a push.
[17:08] <lopta> In a commercial setting I'd lean more towards a "thin client".
[17:09] <Owner> trying to use it as an IOT style device
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[17:09] <Owner> no monitor or keyboard, onl ynetwork access
[17:09] <iKarith> someone on Amazon asked about the Raspberry Pi camera module's crypto chip. wat.
[17:09] <Owner> it isnt stable enough for that
[17:09] <lopta> Come to think of it, back when we had three offices we used a thin client at one of them, a Raspberry Pi on my desk and the application server was in the third office.
[17:09] <lopta> Owner: That's a different application.
[17:10] <Owner> that is what i said.
[17:10] * lopta nods
[17:11] <lopta> I might buy a new microSDC card for mine today.
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[17:11] <programmerq> I've had a few pis that have had several months of uptime at a time-- but I still wouldn't trust them in a remote env.
[17:11] <Owner> i feel like the old ones were more stable....
[17:11] <JimBuntu> I have mad >1 year of uptime without issue. I use them in remote environments where they are only connected to power and network.
[17:12] <programmerq> I have a pi 1 still
[17:12] <Owner> JimBuntu: 3b+?
[17:12] <programmerq> Owner▸ the 3b+ hasn't been out for a year
[17:12] <JimBuntu> Owner, Pi 2s.
[17:12] <lopta> programmerq: Those work too but they're slow.
[17:12] <Owner> try with a 3b+ on 5ghz wifi and let me know
[17:12] <lopta> (to slow for use as a graphical terminal)
[17:12] <Owner> you might get 3 days uptime
[17:12] <JimBuntu> Owner, 5GHz wifi, that alone makes me laugh
[17:12] <lopta> too*
[17:12] <Owner> JimBuntu: explain?
[17:12] <lopta> Owner: Yeah, such is the nature of WiFi.
[17:12] * biopandemic (~biopandem@unaffiliated/biopandemic) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:12] <programmerq> yeah, my pi1 hasn't been used for a long time. I think I put openelec or retropie on it last time I used it.
[17:13] <programmerq> but that was a couple years ago. It's fast enough for NES/SNES emulation, iirc.
[17:13] <JimBuntu> Owner, I only use wifi when required and I stay far away from 5GHz due to it's range, reflections/etc
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[17:13] <lopta> programmerq: Mine runs NetBSD/evbarm
[17:13] <Owner> JimBuntu: i also despise wireless
[17:13] <Owner> but customers are *********
[17:13] <lopta> JimBuntu: 5 GHz is great if it's used right.
[17:13] <lopta> JimBuntu: ...but a wire is better ;-)
[17:13] <JimBuntu> lopta, yeah, when you tunnel the signal down a path, works great
[17:14] <shbrngdo> I prefer ethernet as well, when possible
[17:14] <Owner> its almost like 5ghz has some other purpose they arent telling us about ;0
[17:14] <Owner> lol
[17:14] <Owner> depopulate the west </tinfoil>
[17:14] <shbrngdo> 5ghz has more (and wider) channels in it than 2.4ghz so the throughput is higher, and you can have people share the band more easily
[17:15] <lopta> shbrngdo: Definitely.
[17:15] <JimBuntu> Agreed, 5GHz can be faster.
[17:15] <lopta> Faster and cleaner.
[17:15] <shbrngdo> when you have 6 neighborhood APs trying to share 13 channels it's not so good. Most G and N takes double-width of a channel at the very least
[17:16] <Owner> yeah everywhere you go now has like 15 APs
[17:17] <shbrngdo> and bluetooth competes on 2.4Ghz as well
[17:17] <programmerq> I always wire my house with network cable so I can do as much wired as possible. No reason to use wireless for TV set top boxes that are always in the same place.
[17:17] <Syliss> 5ghz ranges from 5.1 to 5.8 ghz, channel 32-168 ish
[17:18] <shbrngdo> considerably wider, yes
[17:18] <Syliss> so what, 156 channels, at 5mhz per channel
[17:18] * Syliss works for a wisp
[17:18] <shbrngdo> as I recall wifi reserves 4 channels at a time
[17:18] <Syliss> normally yes, its 20mhz wide
[17:19] <Syliss> and 2 above and below
[17:19] <shbrngdo> I also figure out what neighbors are using, then manually select a channel. If you have someone who's channel hopping, you run a throughput test on it for a day or so using iperf
[17:19] * comptroller (~comptroll@47-213-222-253.paolcmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:19] <Syliss> only downside is a lot of wisps and stuff are using 5ghz for backhaul and customer antennas
[17:19] <Syliss> eats up a crap ton of spectrum outside
[17:20] <shbrngdo> well, it's the world of unlicensed spectrum
[17:20] <shbrngdo> microwave ovens interfere with the 2.4Ghz band also
[17:20] <shbrngdo> and certain wireless phones
[17:21] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[17:21] <Owner> microwave phones
[17:22] <Syliss> yep
[17:22] <Owner> i dont think zombies care if the brains are cooked though
[17:23] <Syliss> prolly not
[17:24] <Syliss> dealing with 6-18ghz, 24ghz, and 60ghz is fun... sometimes
[17:24] <Owner> is it?
[17:24] <Syliss> lol yes
[17:25] <Owner> did anyone repeat the watercress experiment?
[17:25] <Syliss> there are a lot of products too, 24ghz is unlicensed as well
[17:25] <Syliss> same with 60ghz
[17:26] <Owner> http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/9th-grade-student-cress-wifi-experiment-attracts-international-attention/
[17:26] <shiftplusone> stupid question time... is there a difference between linking to a static library and building with the appropriate .o file or do they result in the same binary?
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[17:27] <Owner> you want a static binary or dynamically linked binary
[17:28] <Owner> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14842268/how-to-create-static-binary-which-runs-on-every-distro
[17:29] <shiftplusone> Not quite what I was asking. I'll try again later when the question is cleared in my mind.
[17:29] <shiftplusone> ah... the answer is here https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23615282/object-files-vs-library-files-and-why
[17:30] <shiftplusone> " Linking a library containing object files you use and linking the objects files themselves is exactly the same."
[17:31] <Owner> nice
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[18:55] <Owner> Syliss: what is the obession with 5g and making sure you cannot escape it?
[18:55] * hotpot33 (~hotpot33@unaffiliated/hotpot33) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[18:55] <Owner> Syliss: https://twitter.com/parscale/status/1004380669466824705
[18:57] <Owner> Syliss: every response ive read want to know how it is proven safe
[18:57] <Syliss> people are stupid
[18:57] <Syliss> its using the same spectrum
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[18:57] <Syliss> its just using better bph rates and better channeling
[18:57] <Owner> are people stupid? the news just said two weeks ago that cell phones cause brain cancer / heart cancer
[18:58] <Syliss> of course they do, but so does just living
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[18:58] <Fulgen> do they cause cancer?
[18:58] <shiftplusone> I don't think Owner is being serious
[18:58] <Owner> i am being serious
[18:58] <Owner> you dont follow the news?
[18:58] <shiftplusone> Not daily mail
[18:58] <Fulgen> my physics teacher said that the emitted waves have way too less energy to do something to the cells
[18:58] <Owner> its like when harvard says fluoride lowers your iq, and i guess we should put it in all the water?
[18:59] <Fulgen> Owner: nope, I follow physics
[18:59] <Owner> Fulgen: thats debunked now
[18:59] <Owner> non-ionizing radiation isnt safe either
[18:59] <Fulgen> in what way
[19:00] <Owner> Fulgen: do your own research or believe what you have been told, you cannot be convinced of anything once you have swallowed what someone else has told you to believe
[19:00] <Owner> or repeated over and over
[19:00] * v01d4lph4 (~silent_fr@ Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[19:00] <Fulgen> Owner: why is there a personal accusation now
[19:00] <Fulgen> I asked you about something I don't know about
[19:00] <Owner> its generic
[19:00] <shiftplusone> heh.... 'do your own research' is a good and common answer when people don't understand the burden of proof.
[19:00] <Owner> you = human
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[19:01] <Owner> you cant prove anything to a human
[19:01] <Owner> they have to do it themselves
[19:01] <Owner> its called questioning pre-concieved beliefs
[19:01] <Fulgen> I don't think I have to split an atom myself to believe it
[19:01] <shiftplusone> You could point us all in the right direction... the studies you're referencing would be helpful.
[19:01] * Tex_Nick (TexNixk@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/texnixk) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[19:01] <Fulgen> Owner: so the prove atomic bombs exist exists only if I build one?
[19:01] <Fulgen> sounds weird
[19:02] <iKarith> Nope, 10am is far too late for this one for me, I'll have the good sense to stay out of it.
[19:02] <Owner> Fulgen: prove non-ionizing radiation is safe
[19:02] <Fulgen> why should I
[19:02] <Fulgen> I am not a physician goddammit
[19:02] <iKarith> I now need to figure out if I can get a RPi camera to focus at 15cm or thereabouts.
[19:02] <Owner> and then prove it is even non-ionizing
[19:02] <shiftplusone> Owner: you're the one making a claim here.
[19:02] <Owner> im just reporting what is admitted
[19:02] <iKarith> That might be too much for the standard lens and I'll need to buy something else instead
[19:02] <Fulgen> a physician told me it is safe. a physician is an expert.
[19:02] <iKarith> AFTER I sleep
[19:02] <shiftplusone> What's admitted by whom?
[19:03] <Fulgen> we know nothing about you Owner.
[19:03] <Owner> Fulgen: did he prove it?
[19:03] <iKarith> night everyone!
[19:03] <Fulgen> you can't prove anything in physics
[19:03] <shiftplusone> iKarith: 'night
[19:03] <Owner> Fulgen: he must be using old information
[19:03] <Fulgen> as in 100% sure
[19:03] <Fulgen> then point me to the new one
[19:03] <iKarith> shiftplusone: I keep this up I'll be on your schedule. :P
[19:03] <Fulgen> and please don't come with "the friend of the mother of my second wife's nephew told me that"
[19:04] <shiftplusone> iKarith: You already seem to be.
[19:04] <Owner> it was all over the news
[19:04] <Syliss> wtaf....
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[19:04] <Owner> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0928468013000035
[19:04] <Owner> thats from 2013, theres new stuff
[19:05] <Fulgen> https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/radiation/cell-phones-fact-sheet#q5
[19:06] <Fulgen> that's from 2018, that's newer stuff
[19:07] <Owner> "A limited number of studies have shown some evidence of statistical association of cell phone use and brain tumor risks, but most studies have found no association."
[19:07] <Owner> lol
[19:07] <Owner> ok, they should link to the studies they are accusing of bias
[19:07] <Owner> but they are more focused on rolling out 5g nationwide for 100% coverage as a govt backed infrastructure plan
[19:08] <Fulgen> they link to some resources at the bottom
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[19:08] <Owner> wcpgw
[19:08] <Syliss> its going to happen, as tech gets better, side effects will occur
[19:08] * bortzmeyer (~stephane@2a01:e35:2fb3:e1d0:244c:2036:c20d:f449) has joined #raspberrypi
[19:08] <Owner> Syliss: you are probably right
[19:08] <Syliss> i mean, we could just go back to pre tech revolution.... and just forget this whole internet/tv/radio/sat thing
[19:09] <Owner> the best you can do is to not hold your cell phone to your head, or keep it near your reproductive organs (unless you dont care about procreating)
[19:09] <Owner> same as you dont put a laptop on your lap
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[19:09] <Syliss> good, population control
[19:09] <Syliss> lulz
[19:10] <Owner> only the best for the west!
[19:10] <Owner> best eugenics
[19:10] <Syliss> meh
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[19:57] <shbrngdo> "limited number of studies" = "specially cooked data" --> lies, damn lies, statistics, and PC performance tests
[19:58] <shbrngdo> there is NOT enough energy emission, nor energy absorption by human tissue, for a cell phone transmission to in any way cause the *kinds* of biological damage necessary to cause cancer [or anything else for that matter]
[19:59] <shbrngdo> anyone who has taken the necessary classes to qualify as a radiation worker would know this
[19:59] <shbrngdo> your wifi is perfectly safe. seriousl.
[19:59] <shbrngdo> and bluetooth too. no needs for worries
[20:00] <stiv_> like yogi said, you can observe a lot just by watching. given the widespread use of cell phones, if they caused cancer, you would be seing an epidemic already
[20:00] <shiftplusone> Get outta here with your reasonable statements.
[20:00] <shbrngdo> heh
[20:00] <shiftplusone> wake up, sheeple.
[20:01] <shbrngdo> yeah i also read that cancer.gov site posted a few lines up - looks right to me
[20:01] * stiv_ loves a good apocalypse a much as the next person
[20:01] <davr0s> yikes does the r-pi0w give you cancer?
[20:01] <stiv_> davr0s, only if you lick it
[20:01] * shiftplusone wonders if raspberry pi should sell faraday cage HATs
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[20:02] <shiftplusone> Tin Foil HAT
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[20:02] <shbrngdo> just about any electronics these days has RF emissions. FCC regs require them to be below a certain limit when unintentional, and to comply with various specs when intentional (like wifi, bluetooth)
[20:02] <benklop> hello!
[20:02] <shbrngdo> 'Tin Foil HAT' - good one
[20:03] <stiv_> if you go with tin foil, remember it's SHINY SIDE OUT
[20:03] <stiv_> otherwise you are just concentrating the rays
[20:03] <shbrngdo> it reflects sunlight to airplanes that way
[20:04] <benklop> does anyone here know if it's possible to cnnect two different I2S devices (an ADC and a DAC) to one rpi3? https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=158724 says that it is possible, but I can only seem to get one or the other functional, not both.
[20:04] * tuxiano (~tuxiano@2a02:8070:8986:bd00:141b:6551:788d:89d1) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:04] <shbrngdo> I can't remember how I2S differs from I2C
[20:04] * GraysonBriggs (~GraysonBr@206-51-126-226.up.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[20:04] <shbrngdo> you can with I2C because each device has a different bus address
[20:05] * divx118 (~divx118@D93F170F.cm-20.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[20:05] <shbrngdo> maybe you need to make sure your ADC and DAC have different bus addresses
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[20:06] <benklop> shbrngdo: there aren't addresses in i2s, though there are separate in and out data lines. i have the ADC on the in line, and the DAC on the out line.
[20:06] <benklop> they share a single bit clock
[20:06] * divx118 (~divx118@D93F170F.cm-20.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:08] <shbrngdo> benklop - ok as long as your clock rate matches I see no reason why it would not work... was looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2S just now
[20:08] * SebastienThiry (~Thunderbi@217.82-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) Quit (Quit: SebastienThiry)
[20:08] <shbrngdo> ugh, that link turned into colors - stupid percents
[20:08] <shbrngdo> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%C2%B2S
[20:12] <benklop> shbrngdo: I'm fairly sure the problem is actually driver related - I have device tree overlays for both codecs, but if i load one, the previous one seems to not work. in other words, I can't get aplay -l and arecord -l to both list devices at the same time.
[20:12] <Owner> has anyone built a prusa i3
[20:12] * shiftplusone raises hand
[20:12] <stoner19> I asked the other day, but no responses. Anyone have experience with Kano kits? Or do their kids have experience with them? Thinking of getting them for my kiddos.
[20:13] <Owner> you use rpi with octoprint or w/e it was ?
[20:13] <shiftplusone> No, I have it hooked up to my pc and use repetier or cura
[20:14] <Owner> nice...can you send me a picture of how you did your endstops ?
[20:14] <shiftplusone> when I get home, I could. Which kit do you have?
[20:14] <Owner> no kit
[20:14] <Owner> i sourced everything the hard way
[20:14] <shiftplusone> ah alright
[20:14] <shiftplusone> sec
[20:15] * dreamon__ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:15] <Owner> take your time sir :D
[20:15] <stoner19> afk for a bit. please ping me if anyone responds about the Kano inquiry. :)
[20:17] <shiftplusone> stoner19: no experience with them personally, but as far as I can tell they're a keyboard and a case with lots of shiny marketing. The value is mostly in the software, if you like that kind of thing. They should offer a download of it so you could try it without buying the keyboard.
[20:17] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:18] <stoner19> yeah, I understand the overpriced rpi and shiny hardware stuff, but the idea is simplicity for kids who don't have much computer experience at all.
[20:18] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:18] <shiftplusone> Owner: this looks about right for the kit I had (as far as the endstops go) https://www.geeetech.com/Documents/Acrylic%20I3%20pro%20B%203D%20Printer%20building%20instruction.pdf.
[20:18] <benklop> shbrngdo: thanks for the sanity check. I'm thinking i need to write a driver that uses both of the drivers for the ADC and DAC simultaneously
[20:18] <stoner19> actually, you can download their OS
[20:18] <Owner> shiftplusone: thank you
[20:18] <shbrngdo> benklop - interesting idea. port to FBSD too maybe?
[20:19] * shbrngdo wonders - since when is RPi overpriced? maybe 'shiny hardware' yeah but I think RPi pricing is pretty affordable...
[20:19] * Keanu73 (~Keanu73@2ProIntl/User/Geek/Keanu73) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:19] <shiftplusone> shbrngdo: take a look at the kano kits
[20:20] <shbrngdo> oh well 'kit' pricing, yeah. that's where the markup happens.
[20:20] <shbrngdo> if you're willing to go with no case and an off-the-shelf USB powerup and cable, it's really inexpensive
[20:20] <shiftplusone> shbrngdo: they sell a bundle of peripherals so that kids can 'build a computer' (plug in the keyboard).
[20:20] <Owner> LOL
[20:20] <shbrngdo> yeah you could go haywire with touch screens, etc.
[20:21] <Owner> why teach a kid how to "build" and "code" in the wrong way
[20:21] <Owner> imo...teach them the hard way
[20:21] <shbrngdo> to make money?
[20:21] <Owner> i mean your own kid
[20:21] <shbrngdo> ack - I was being snarky
[20:21] <shbrngdo> actually kids do best with things that require imagination
[20:22] <shbrngdo> if you imagine "for them", they get bored
[20:22] <Owner> https://static.kano.me/assets/images/product-page/computer-kit-complete/learn-block/learn-to-code.jpg
[20:22] <Owner> disaster
[20:23] * sdothum (~znc@dsl-173-206-72-241.tor.primus.ca) Quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.0 - https://znc.in)
[20:23] <shbrngdo> they're going for kids who would never use computers for anything BUT content consumption
[20:23] <Khaytsus> That's just a cute colorful example, not like it's reality.
[20:23] <Owner> Khaytsus: it is reality heh
[20:24] <Owner> Khaytsus: https://scratch.mit.edu
[20:24] <Khaytsus> It's a flashy marketing image on a webpage.
[20:24] <Khaytsus> Unless you mean scratch in general
[20:24] <Khaytsus> In which case it has a use case.... understanding logical blocks
[20:24] <shbrngdo> I went to kano.me root site and got a noscript-blocked thing that looks like FLASH... they didn't... did they?
[20:24] <shiftplusone> shbrngdo: I haven't checked, but I doubt it's flash.
[20:25] * sdothum (~znc@dsl-173-206-72-241.tor.primus.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:25] <shiftplusone> IIRC, they have one of those scrolly sites, where you keep scrolling down and everything changes dynamically
[20:25] <shbrngdo> whatever it was, it was in an IFRAME
[20:25] <Owner> Khaytsus: when i was a kid all i had was a tandy computer, floppy disks, a cdrom i had to get working myself in dos, a C programming book and quake + quakec + mods with source code
[20:25] <shiftplusone> Oh no, they've changed the site
[20:25] <shiftplusone> looks fine
[20:26] <Owner> Khaytsus: but if it works, i guess it works
[20:26] <shbrngdo> if their web site design reflects their 'kit' design, it's something to avoid
[20:26] * Ilyas (uid43013@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cjasgqngudzqcece) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:26] <Owner> at some point everyone realizes the seperation between fun and work
[20:27] <Owner> id rather just teach them how it takes work to create
[20:27] <Owner> its not alwasy fun :p
[20:29] * tuxiano (~tuxiano@2a02:8070:8986:bd00:141b:6551:788d:89d1) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:29] <Khaytsus> Owner: Yes yes.. and I learned to program using a radio shack science fair kit followed by BASIC on a C64. It doesn't matter, it's basic introduction to logic.
[20:30] <Owner> Khaytsus: i wouldnt say it doesnt matter
[20:30] <Owner> learning literally changes your brain structure
[20:30] <Owner> so if you learn visually only instead of visualizing in your head
[20:30] <Owner> it can become a handicap in theory
[20:30] <shbrngdo> a kid's computer with a simple learning program on it and some educational games would do fine, when they're under 9
[20:30] <Owner> but w/e not my kids =]
[20:30] * GenteelBen (GenteelBen@cpc129112-lutn14-2-0-cust66.know.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:31] <shbrngdo> I suppose you could do that with a simple 'droid slab and the proper "app"
[20:31] <Khaytsus> Learning something wrong is clearly bad, learning something that puts you on the wrong path is bad... Which is why a lot of poeple throw python or such at kids anymore in these computer camps etc.
[20:31] <shbrngdo> python is interesting but i wouldn't design applications with it. unfortunately, people do.
[20:32] <Owner> i was considering python for an app just today... but may be going with .net core :p
[20:32] <shbrngdo> if you want to prototype an idea it's a quick/easy way
[20:32] <Owner> i was thinking python for scapy + twisted
[20:32] <shiftplusone> as far as I see it, it's a constant learning process. You can start of doing things wrong, end up going down dead ends, but it's still a learning experience. If you care about the quality of your work, you'll find what works and what doesn't anyway.
[20:32] <shbrngdo> Owner - I suppose you could do worse - C-pound or ".not" core
[20:32] <Owner> but the deployment / environment issues bother me
[20:33] <shbrngdo> perhaps the one feature of the RPi that's obviously being ignored here - the IO pins - is where the focus ought to be.
[20:33] <shbrngdo> it's more interesting to make lights blink than it is to run someone's canned "learn to program" thing
[20:33] <Owner> shiftplusone: yea, thats true...but i fear that teaching kids in the wrong way can literally damage them long term
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[20:34] <Owner> look at universities for examples :p
[20:34] <shbrngdo> O
[20:34] <shbrngdo> O
[20:34] <shbrngdo> what the hell?
[20:34] <shbrngdo> stupid keyboard
[20:35] <Owner> heh...wireless ?
[20:35] <JimBuntu> Python can be trusted in production enterprise use. (and is)
[20:35] <shbrngdo> It would seem to me that what many people defend about universities and their "education" with respect to competent programming is more disappointing than anything else, from what I've seen
[20:35] <shbrngdo> JimBuntu - unfortunately
[20:36] <shbrngdo> Owner - my keyboard can't type.
[20:36] <JimBuntu> What is unfortunate about an app being written in Python?
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[20:36] <shbrngdo> JimBuntu - nothing if it's simple and doesn't do anything that requires real computation
[20:36] <Owner> i think you can do anything in python that you can do in C
[20:36] <JimBuntu> So, are you talking about how it's going to be slower doing almost anything?
[20:37] <shbrngdo> sure, but you can do anything in B.F. also and I wouldn't
[20:37] <Owner> you are thinking of ruby badachaaaaaa
[20:37] <JimBuntu> Owner, you can... you can even import your C code
[20:37] <shbrngdo> JimBuntu - slower is the beginning of the problems. there's also the bass-ackwards object logic. It's also hard to take a Python program and turn it into a C program when it comes to 'scale up'
[20:38] <JimBuntu> Ok. Well, I am not saying it's the BEST choice for any given task, just many find that it measures up to their requirements.
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[20:38] <shbrngdo> JimBuntu - it very well might. but like anything, there's a cost involved
[20:39] <Owner> python is pretty mature
[20:39] <JimBuntu> For sure shbrngdo, acceptance of the cost... adding layers between the human and the eventual compilation/runtime is the whole point.
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[20:40] <Owner> shbrngdo: what is bass-ackwards object logic
[20:40] <shbrngdo> anyway, not really wanting to debate python. I've seen it misused because "someone decided" "use python" - then I get ahold of it to add a necessary feature, and end up re-writing a LOT of things to overcome all of the problems I find
[20:40] * XV8 (~XV8@d-216-36-29-104.cpe.metrocast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:40] * JimBuntu prefers to push the cart with the horsey.
[20:40] <shbrngdo> the most important things were offloaded to external program written in 'C' which, interestingly enough, python does very well. It's like shell or perl in that way.
[20:41] <shbrngdo> so maybe "Python as glue" makes sense
[20:41] <JimBuntu> shbrngdo, I think what is unfortunate is that you have been put in the position to extend other peoples code that was probably written ?very? poorly.
[20:41] <shbrngdo> JimBuntu - that's also true. I would've done this web site as Apache+PHP with CGI and C utilities. It was done purely in Python instead, with DJango
[20:42] <red9> Python is totalarism. Perl is like glue that works. ;)
[20:42] <JimBuntu> Ouch. Sorry to hear that shbrngdo.
[20:42] <shbrngdo> JimBuntu - ok I admit I saw "the worst possible combination" but still...
[20:43] <Owner> php gets the job done
[20:43] <JimBuntu> shbrngdo, were they using Python for the CGI mostly?
[20:43] <shbrngdo> "gets the job done" - I'm pretty much that kind of person
[20:43] * tvm_ (~tvm@router-sever1-nat-m.pilsfree.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:43] <red9> Owner, For the hackers or the owners? ;)
[20:43] * bitmask (~bitmask@pool-100-35-64-150.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:43] <Owner> red9: you are thinking of ruby
[20:43] * sinatrablue (~sinatrabl@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:43] <shbrngdo> JimBuntu - there was no CGI. The web site was supposed to be for uploaded 'cloud stored' binary data, which was then translated and displayed as charts or whatever.
[20:44] <shbrngdo> so you had Python doing the binary translation into CSV of all things, then charted using THAT
[20:44] <Owner> oh lord
[20:44] * bitmask (~bitmask@pool-100-35-64-150.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:44] * Drzacek (~Drzacek@200116b800b58a0059aed7b7349492a5.dip.versatel-1u1.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:44] * tfitts (uid158900@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nwyzuvamimzicwkv) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[20:44] <shbrngdo> uploads took MORE THAN ONE MINUTE for typical data sets. 99% of that was the 'cooking'. I got it down to about 15 seconds.
[20:45] * nshire (~nealshire@unaffiliated/nealshire) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[20:45] <Owner> im considering just splatting data into elasticache
[20:45] * sgflt (~sgflt@p4FF7790F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:45] <shbrngdo> that's only because Python was still being used to generate the charts. However, the owner said "all development stops" because he ran out of money, basically, before I got the charts moved over to GnuPlot [a few things WERE using it though]
[20:46] <shbrngdo> without the python charts, it would've been under 10 seconds, easily.
[20:46] <Owner> sad
[20:46] <shbrngdo> anyway - prototype in python, sure. actually DEPLOY in python? Not so good. it doesn't scale well.
[20:46] <Khaytsus> I wouldn't use python for anything, but that's personal choice. But wouldn't use python for anything large. But python is good for prototyping and is such a high level programming language it could almost be used to learn pseudoprogramming (ie: learning logic and such before worrying about strict syntax)
[20:46] <JimBuntu> Bad use of python and whatever libraries they were using for the graphing probably too.
[20:47] * Project86__ (uid294991@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wqolxtsgxkihdrtv) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:47] <Owner> some idiot did it, then got fired
[20:47] <shbrngdo> python as pseudo-programming. that is a very interesting way to look at it.
[20:47] <Owner> or quit, which is what most idiots do after they make a mess
[20:47] <Khaytsus> Poeple use Python because there's a huge library of things for it. But anything large? Ugh. and every time someone brings up django for a web app I want to murder whole bags of kittens.
[20:47] <shbrngdo> JimBuntu - it was all NumPy and some other standard library, actually. yeah.
[20:48] <Owner> i tried to code in Go
[20:48] <Owner> but im not neckbeard enough
[20:48] <shbrngdo> I forget what the chart package is but it's some standard python math library
[20:48] * s8548a (~s8548a@unaffiliated/s8548a) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:48] <Owner> chart.js works
[20:49] <JimBuntu> Hmmm. I don't know the dataset you had, but I have pushed some reasonably large datasets into NumPy and seem to remember very fast output. It was literally XLS -> JPG
[20:49] <Khaytsus> Never done any Go. I did some Grails once and it was insanely abstracted. You could almost just make shit up and it worked.
[20:49] * goiko (~goiko@unaffiliated/goiko) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:49] <shbrngdo> JimBuntu - the NumPy part isn't where the bottleneck was. Once in NumPy form, it went into the math package's charting thing. that is where it took several seconds per chart
[20:49] <Owner> grails is like java right
[20:49] <JimBuntu> Now that I think og it, I think I mainly used the matplotlib, which is an extension of NumPy
[20:50] <shbrngdo> Equivalent charting using GnuPlot, less than 1 second per chart (typically) and that's after a C program basically creates a text file to define the data set and the chart description
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[20:50] * hotpot33 (~hotpot33@unaffiliated/hotpot33) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[20:50] <Owner> what kind of an app can use gnuplot for anything
[20:50] <shbrngdo> so yeah GnuPlot scales very nicely when hundreds or thousands of data points are involved
[20:50] <JimBuntu> I sure wouldn't try to say Python is going to run faster than lower level programming.
[20:51] <shbrngdo> Owner - yeah gnuplot has its downsides, too, but I had some canned functions to "generate this chart" and "generate that chart" in C
[20:51] * stivs (~steve@blender/coder/stivs) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:51] <Owner> were these not for a web client ?
[20:51] <shbrngdo> JimBuntu - if you're not doing anything 'big' with it, Python works. it doesn't "scale" though
[20:51] <JimBuntu> Mine was NOT for a web client.
[20:51] <Khaytsus> Owner: Yeah, Grails is one of several languages that are eh.. high level abstraction of java
[20:52] <Owner> Khaytsus: oh lord
[20:52] <Khaytsus> You can actually intermix grails and java from line to line iirc
[20:52] <shbrngdo> Owner - web client, sure. the data ws typically 'cooked' because on-the-fly charting was so inefficient in Python. I figured it'd move to "on the fly" at some point, and I had smoe nice sample pages that DID do that. You couldn't tell.
[20:52] <red9> Web and it's programmers are too often.. Oh my god my lord. :P
[20:52] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:53] <shbrngdo> anyway the stuff I did was on the server side. I wanted to minimize any scripting done on the client side.
[20:53] <Owner> i just plop the data out of php and have javscript draw the stupid chart
[20:53] * stiv_ (~steve@blender/coder/stivs) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[20:53] * Keanu73 (~Keanu73@2ProIntl/User/Geek/Keanu73) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:53] <shbrngdo> this was intended to be viewed on a phone, for example.
[20:53] <Owner> ah
[20:53] <JimBuntu> We used it heavily for internal tooling.
[20:53] <Khaytsus> php? Speaking of bad languages ;)
[20:53] <shbrngdo> Owner - jscript charting is probably better for a lot of things than what this python package was doing, particularly because of JIT compiling.
[20:53] <Owner> php is good enough if you arent an idiot :D
[20:54] <Owner> whats the alternative to PHP
[20:54] <shbrngdo> Owner - PHP will do just about anything you want on a back end, particularly as 'glue' like Perl
[20:54] <Owner> serious question
[20:54] <Khaytsus> Pretty Hackable Page
[20:54] * TheFatherMind (~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:54] <Owner> only if you code it to be hackable on purpose
[20:54] <shbrngdo> alternative to PHP is probably CGI, using perl or C applications [or shell scripts in some cases]
[20:54] <Owner> or you just dont care about doing it right :D
[20:55] <shbrngdo> there have been some really insecure things done in PHP, yeah (phpBB some time ago)
[20:55] <Owner> yes
[20:55] <shbrngdo> PHP itself is pretty good, has been for a long time.
[20:56] <Owner> ive never written insecure php code though
[20:56] <shbrngdo> you can generate your own session cookies and require that user/pass be sent encrypted, things like that. not that hard. I've experimented with it.
[20:56] <shbrngdo> I forget the syntax but it's like "if not encrypted" equivalent
[20:56] <shbrngdo> or "if not SSL" - same idea
[20:57] * cave (~various@h081217094244.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:58] <Owner> if(isset($_SERVER['HTTPS'])) echo 'secuRitah';
[20:58] * m_t (~m_t@p5DDA269D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:58] <shbrngdo> yeah I think that would work
[20:59] <shbrngdo> the important part is session control, making sure you don't get someone trying to recover an idle session to crack in
[20:59] * clemens3 (~clemens@80-218-38-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:59] <Owner> but how would they do that
[20:59] <Owner> guess a random hash ?
[20:59] <shbrngdo> if you can read the cookie through "some means" you could, in theory, use it to post transactions, etc.
[21:00] <Owner> yeah if you steal a cookie or spoof to an existing hash
[21:00] <Owner> theres not many ways around that
[21:00] <shbrngdo> right but if the cookie itself is encrypted using the page's URL and time data, it can't be re-used - it has to be re-issued with each page [like a kind of TKIP]
[21:01] <Owner> interesting
[21:01] <Owner> is that in OWASP ?
[21:01] <shbrngdo> not sure
[21:01] <shbrngdo> I'd look to see how secure existing methods are before writing my own, but that's how I'd do it.
[21:01] <shbrngdo> a bad cookie would get you "this page has expired" and you'd have to log in again
[21:02] <Owner> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Reviewing_Code_for_Session_Integrity_issues
[21:02] * giddles (~giddles@unaffiliated/giddles) Quit (Quit: chnge)
[21:02] * Stromeko_ is now known as help
[21:03] * help is now known as Stromeko
[21:03] <Owner> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Codereview-Session-Management
[21:03] <shbrngdo> yeah you'd use non-persistent session cookies for that
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[21:05] <shbrngdo> in any case, a nice session ID would be a SHA256 of the login hash, the web page you've visited, and the time you did it. this would be a key on the server to the active session, which would time out after n minutes.
[21:06] <shbrngdo> getting the next page gets you a new session ID with "all that" in it.
[21:06] <Voop> gordonDrogon: it was removed because people were breaking the port off from pushing too hard
[21:06] <Voop> i dont know why people were doing that, but that was the official reason
[21:06] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[21:07] <shbrngdo> what was removed... SD card spring thingy?
[21:07] <Owner> shbrngdo: did you just delete the session file off the filesystem if it was X minutes old ? or did you do something else....
[21:07] <Voop> when is the pi zero with the new wireless chipset coming out
[21:07] <Voop> shbrngdo: yeah the spring loaded microsd slot
[21:07] <shbrngdo> Owner - oh I haven't actually implemented this. it's what i would do, though. a hash list of sessions could be kept in a simple berkely DB
[21:08] <shbrngdo> or you could use a text file, sure. the hash would be a key to finding the other info. I've done hash keys before [they work really well]
[21:08] <shbrngdo> hash keys are ransom so they can be in a b-tree or used in a hashtable lookup
[21:08] <shbrngdo> er, random
[21:08] <shbrngdo> sequential keys don't work well for that
[21:09] <shbrngdo> Voop - I've accidentally pushed it myself a couple of times
[21:10] <Voop> i do like spring loaded more than non spring loaded
[21:10] <Voop> but it doesnt really make a difference
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[21:10] <stoner19> appreciate the insight on those Kano kits shbrngdo Owner shiftplusone
[21:10] <Voop> as long as it works im happy
[21:10] <shbrngdo> non-spring-loaded cost less, but might be better for keeping an SD in place when you're not likely to swap it out. on my RPi, I remove the SD and re-insert it a LOT
[21:10] <shbrngdo> er, RPi's
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[21:11] <Voop> see i dont have an issue pulling it out
[21:11] <shbrngdo> tweeker screwdrivers if it gets kinda stuck
[21:11] <Voop> people were discussing earlier that it was difficult to remove them
[21:11] <Voop> but i havent had such issues
[21:11] <shbrngdo> MORE difficult, yeah.
[21:11] <shiftplusone> stoner19: to be fair, you're asking in a place that would be biased against things like Kano, so I don't know how useful our thoughts on it would be.
[21:11] <shbrngdo> I have a hard time lining up to re-insert it - have to lift the board up with wires attached, etc.
[21:12] <Voop> is kano an rpi alternative
[21:12] <shiftplusone> stoner19: I seem to recall that LinusTechTips did a video (youtube) on the kano kit... maybe look that one up.
[21:12] <shbrngdo> Voop - it appears to be a set of kits for grade school kids that uses RPi as part of it.
[21:12] <Voop> ah
[21:12] <Voop> those are usually way over priced
[21:12] <shbrngdo> "build your own laptop" and things like that, like lego
[21:13] <shbrngdo> it's about as complicated as lego
[21:13] <shbrngdo> from what I can tell
[21:13] <shbrngdo> but I think it would be more interesting if they had to do more work on it than just put these modules here and plug them together
[21:13] <Voop> https://i.imgur.com/slmI6Sj.jpg
[21:13] <Voop> $160 not including shipping
[21:14] <Voop> for all of that junk
[21:14] <Voop> apparently "building a computer" consists of plugging power in, and connecting a bluetooth keyboard
[21:15] <shbrngdo> also I'm not seeing a lot regarding the IO pins, which [if you want your kid to REALLY learn computers] you'd at least be able to blink some LEDs or wire up some motors or something
[21:15] <red9> Non-spring-loaded SD-card holder will be nice at the same time a free network boot fix-kit is introduced for every Pi since 2011.
[21:15] * lead_pipe23 (~Lead@c-71-59-62-216.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Bye)
[21:16] <choscura> So, I'm working on setting up Raspberry Pi demo machines at schools and stuff, my next thought is libraries, anybody have anywhere else that might see obvious benefit with some throughput of foot traffic interested in cheap educational computers?
[21:16] <shbrngdo> red9 - the devs for FreeBSD have their own net boot thing using u-boot
[21:16] <shbrngdo> for FBSD, the kernel load is actually u-boot, which then boots the kernel. but it COULD do a net boot...
[21:17] <shbrngdo> and the devs use it that way so they can do quick turnaround on updated kernel builds
[21:17] <choscura> the cana kit is ok, their chargers are good, they include the micro HDMI->normal HDMI stuff and so on
[21:17] <shbrngdo> right microHDMI is a little irritating
[21:17] <shbrngdo> my pi2 has normal HDMI on it
[21:17] <Voop> only the zero has micro
[21:17] <choscura> eh, with the adapter t'aint nuttin budda ding
[21:17] <Voop> and an adapter for that is like 75 cents
[21:17] <shbrngdo> oh ok - I was thinking 3 had it. thanks for clarifying
[21:18] <choscura> yeah, just the tiny guy has it
[21:18] <choscura> it's uncommon, but it exists elsewhere too
[21:18] <choscura> lenovo's high end tablets have it
[21:18] <Voop> and i see little point in connecting a monitor to a zero anyway
[21:18] <shbrngdo> I'm a little unhappy with the audio connector and the 4-conductor plug. I managed to get ahold of one, though, but I can't really use standard headphones with it
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[21:18] <shbrngdo> maybe I'll get/build a headphone adaptor for the 4-conductor thingy
[21:19] <choscura> the zero can run all your nintendo games
[21:19] <choscura> its' what they make those minty pi things around
[21:19] <shbrngdo> uses Xmame maybe?
[21:19] <choscura> which, like, it does some of the rudimentary ps1 games
[21:19] <red9> shbrngdo, Doesn't that u-boot thing require an sd-card present?
[21:19] <choscura> it's not a slouch, it's just not really actually impressive, lol
[21:19] <Voop> it can do a lot of ps1 games
[21:19] <shbrngdo> red9 - yes, you still need the MSDOS partition to load it
[21:19] <Voop> anything ps1 and before
[21:20] <choscura> and up to about n64 on nintendo side
[21:20] <choscura> has trouble with/chokes on starfox
[21:20] <choscura> but up to about that point everything is pretty good
[21:20] <Voop> i think it will even handle some wii games
[21:20] <shbrngdo> red9 - the point is that "a method exists" for netboot
[21:20] <stoner19> shiftplusone yes, I understand this place would be very against kits like that
[21:20] <choscura> runs 007 goldeneye pretty well apparently, although I haven't seen this firsthand
[21:20] <choscura> also quake 1
[21:21] <Voop> ive played mike tysons punch out on mine. works perfectly
[21:21] <Voop> but i wired up my own analog monitor
[21:21] <red9> shbrngdo, So u-boot binary on the fat32 partition. Where does the kernel go? into fat32 or ufs?
[21:21] <stoner19> its got to be appealing for the kids though, not for me
[21:21] <stoner19> I'll consider throwing my own kit together for them instead. and have them help
[21:21] <shbrngdo> red9 - the kernel is on a separate UFS partition
[21:21] <choscura> well, it's worth it for that
[21:21] <Voop> why does this channel not like kits like that?
[21:22] <shbrngdo> red9 - but you don't need it there if you netboot (of course, yeah)
[21:22] <Voop> other than the fact its an over priced bundle
[21:22] <choscura> and, you can do serious stuff with it if you just attach the hardware, because the real power of the pi is it lets you connect damn near anything to the internet and control it remotely
[21:22] <shbrngdo> red9 - in theory you could boot a USB device that way, too
[21:22] <choscura> CNC, 3d printers, remote control vehicles, home automation, etc
[21:23] <Owner> choscura: only if the rpi stays online
[21:23] <choscura> run your studio mics on it, run your microscopes and lab sensors, whatever. it makes all that stuff really cheap to do, with really low technical and fiscal barriers of entry.
[21:23] <Voop> choscura: i wasnt saying the zero is bad, i was just saying it isnt really meant to be used as a computer
[21:23] <Voop> in the same way one might use a pi3
[21:23] <red9> A Pi-zero behind a big monitor for message-displays etc. Is one use..
[21:23] <stoner19> Voop because using kits like that limit you on what you're capable of using it for, probably
[21:23] <stoner19> to be fair I am the one who asked about the kits to begin with
[21:23] <NowhereMan> thy have a lot of uses, just not as a desktop replacement
[21:23] <shbrngdo> right, it seems Pi-zero was more intended as an embedded controller
[21:23] <stoner19> thinking of doing one of those interactive digital mirrors one of these days. You know, the one that shows weather and things
[21:24] <Voop> shbrngdo: exactly
[21:24] <choscura> the kits... well, get the kit that has a cheap SD card and the full-power charger, because that 2.5 amp output is an important detail
[21:24] <davr0s> i remember being glued to 16bit computers
[21:24] <NowhereMan> maybe some retro gaming emulations
[21:24] <red9> The Pi should be pushed down in price seriously..
[21:24] <choscura> but, externally powered USB hubs make up the difference and keep the pi stably powered in parallel, and they can even boot the pi
[21:24] <davr0s> even a pi-zero should be an amusing computer with the right software
[21:24] <Voop> thats why it bugs me when people complain about adapters... buy a pi3 if you plan to connect keyboards and mice and monitors
[21:24] <choscura> red9 look into banana pi
[21:24] <NowhereMan> there are lots of competitors to the pi
[21:24] <shbrngdo> Iv'e used RPI as an embedded controller - built 2 'bed of nails' devices a few years ago for testing circuit boards for a customer - had to flash the bootloader, images, do some testing, bluetooth connectivity, yotta yotta
[21:25] <shbrngdo> using an RPi made sense and was inexpensive and easy to work with
[21:25] <NowhereMan> small robots, wifi camera, etc ad naseum
[21:25] <shbrngdo> the test script was written with shell and a couple of C utilities
[21:25] <choscura> I've helped deploy pis as networked computer vision grow cameras in cannabis operations
[21:25] <NowhereMan> $5 no wifi, $10 wifi and bluetooth
[21:25] <choscura> (legal ones!)
[21:25] * {HD} (nichts@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/hd/x-06969157) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:25] <choscura> soooo... they're not just for kids, is my point, lol
[21:25] <shbrngdo> the frame has a 2-line LCD ($10 simple one like for Arduinos) and 3 buttons, one for power, and 2 to answer questions 'yes' or 'no'.
[21:26] <red9> choscura, with or without license? ;
[21:26] <shbrngdo> the RPi uses its GPIO pins to monitor things on the circuit board with 'nails' on test points
[21:26] <red9> ;)
[21:26] <choscura> with
[21:26] <red9> ;)
[21:26] <choscura> and, mind-boggling
[21:26] <shbrngdo> it also controls power to/from the board and detects short circuits
[21:26] <NowhereMan> a zero W is also THE unit for building MIDI instruments with bluetooth
[21:26] <shbrngdo> If the zero had been out before I designed it, I probably would've used the zero
[21:26] <NowhereMan> sure
[21:27] <NowhereMan> though you can easily swap the units thanks to the std. GPIO
[21:27] <shbrngdo> I'm not sure I want to trust MIDI timing with bluetooth
[21:27] <NowhereMan> some people do
[21:27] <choscura> like, 10,000 square foot warehouse, 1,000 square feet of front show room and board room, a 2500 room with 40 foot ceilings, with racks of whole pot plants drying with about 1-2 feet of space between each the whole way up
[21:28] <NowhereMan> but you dont HAVE to use the bluetooth or wifi, in which case the $5 zero is great
[21:28] <choscura> like, they'd hang them over pipes upside down, run them between pi cameras, bring them over to the row they were gonna dry in, and then haul the pipe up and hang it on chains from the rafters
[21:28] * stivs (~steve@blender/coder/stivs) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:28] <red9> choscura, Using sunlight? did the warehouse had any smell to it?
[21:28] <shbrngdo> NowhereMan - I've considered doing MIDI with an external device (like an arduino) and then using SPI or I2C to communicate to the RPi
[21:28] <shbrngdo> I think that solution has been done already at least once
[21:28] <NowhereMan> why not use a zero?
[21:28] <NowhereMan> skip the arduino
[21:28] <choscura> dude the warehouse had so much smell I got comments the whole commute there and back for months after, I got maybe a quarter ounce of nugs out of just what I found stuck in my boots
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[21:28] <shbrngdo> Zero's CPU for MIDI would be too slow to properly render the sounds with fluidsynth. I've considered re-tryin this with an RPI 3
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[21:29] <choscura> remember, there at harvest time doing data collection for CV stuff
[21:29] <red9> Skip arduino for stm32 or MIPS. 32-bits is so cheap nowadays that 8-bit doesn't make sense.
[21:29] <shbrngdo> fluidsynth lets you use soundfonts
[21:29] <choscura> the 8 bit does make sense for really high-power applications. motor controllers and power controllers and so on.
[21:29] <shbrngdo> red9 - right well you just need something simple to do the serial 31.5kbaud and possibly USB midi
[21:30] <NowhereMan> see how this guy got fluidsynth on a zero running https://lucidbeaming.com/blog/running-fluidsynth-on-a-raspberry-pi-zero-w/
[21:30] <shbrngdo> actually a USB midi adaptor might be even better...
[21:30] <red9> choscura, Better not go on a vacation to Singapore/Thailand etc after work... ;-)
[21:30] <NowhereMan> then you have these http://www.omenie.com/SynthCollection.html
[21:30] <choscura> eh, I lived in thailand/speak thai/can give them shit the whole way through my empty-of-drugs-luggage
[21:30] <shbrngdo> NowhereMan - thanks - I'll have a look. my experiences have been disappointing. lots of stuttering.
[21:31] <choscura> my singlish isn't bad either, lol
[21:31] <NowhereMan> ahhh, I have heard of people using it so I looked
[21:31] <NowhereMan> I PERSONALLY have not run it on a zero
[21:31] <choscura> I've played, eg, that warcraft2 open source clone on a pi 0 w
[21:31] * Fulgen (~Fulgen@078132043014.public.t-mobile.at) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:31] <choscura> hell, even on just a normal pi 0
[21:31] <red9> choscura, and nugs in the boots?
[21:32] <choscura> I wasn't suggesting I'd go to Thailand straight from working at the warehouse, lol
[21:32] <NowhereMan> thailand is great
[21:32] <NowhereMan> land of smiles
[21:32] <NowhereMan> and stinky food
[21:32] <choscura> like, I'd take a shower and probably smoke those clothes and go in new less-obvious-smelling clothes
[21:32] <choscura> very stinky food, too
[21:32] <choscura> and stinky everything
[21:32] <red9> NowhereMan, Land of drugs = one headlength shorter.. chop.. chop.. :p
[21:33] <choscura> eh, that's more stereotype than reality
[21:33] <NowhereMan> i dont do drugs
[21:33] <NowhereMan> so that isnt an issue
[21:33] <NowhereMan> I stay away from the backpacker scum
[21:33] <choscura> in thailand you really have to mess with people to get them to come after you. They deliberately have a culture of non-involvement.
[21:33] <shbrngdo> NowhereMan - looks like he didn't do anything special. when I (basically) did that and played a MIDI file, it had timing errors and stutters and stuff like that. I basically said "unacceptable"
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[21:33] <choscura> and, they see drugs like pot as hokey old-timer drugs.
[21:33] <red9> choscura, That warehouse. Did they use artificial light or sunlight?
[21:34] <shbrngdo> maybe for a single MIDI instrument it would work. but the biggest problem is the ARM floating point, which isn't very good
[21:34] <choscura> the warehouse was the drying room, it used darkness
[21:34] <choscura> the grow rooms used artificial lights and kept every room air-conditioned at full blast to counteract the heat of the lights
[21:34] <shbrngdo> NowhereMan - i considered re-coding fluidsynth to use integer math, instead. big project. never got ot it.
[21:34] <NowhereMan> maybe the latest fluidsynth runs better?
[21:35] <NowhereMan> I might just have to try it myself and see
[21:35] <choscura> and, like, 4 main grow rooms, 2-500 square feet-ish each, and then a seedling room
[21:35] <shbrngdo> it's possible - I haven't tested it in freeBSD yet. FBSD tends to have better tracking with ports.
[21:35] <NowhereMan> ahhh
[21:35] <red9> choscura, Any idea on how many watts per kg plant produced?
[21:35] <choscura> 2000-2500 sqft/ea~
[21:35] <choscura> it was a lot, but I don't have those numbers
[21:35] <shbrngdo> now that I'm thinking of it I'll give it a shot really quick... I have bleeding-edge FBSD 12 loaded at the moment
[21:35] <choscura> but, keep in mind, that's just the local specialty grows
[21:35] <NowhereMan> as usual, I am sure you can make it work on a zero but I can NOT say how much work and time it will take to get there!
[21:35] <NowhereMan> lol
[21:35] <choscura> and they're also processing for farms from around the state
[21:36] <red9> shbrngdo, fbsd12 any good? stable?
[21:36] <choscura> so that warehouse was filled with plants, floor to ceiling, taking about half the floor space, call it 1200 square feet, and that area was fully cleared and full of new plants between every 7 and every 11 days
[21:36] <choscura> for 4 months
[21:36] <NowhereMan> I know there are a LOT of synth projects out there for all sorts of boards
[21:37] <choscura> that's how long it took their drying to get the plants into the next stage of processing
[21:37] <choscura> one of their biggest problems was/is getting rid of the stems and leaves and stuff
[21:37] <red9> choscura, I'm thinking like. If such setup could be used to produce food for survival. Say in deep space.
[21:37] <choscura> they have to mix it in a less-than-50% ratio with other waste products that render the drug unobtainable
[21:38] <choscura> lol, dude, that is a cool problem to tackle, but this is not an actual implementation of tackling it
[21:38] <choscura> this is old school brute force plant-growth-enforcement
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[21:38] <choscura> and then agricultural processing
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[21:39] <choscura> this is the modern tobacco plantation
[21:39] * nibble_zero (~nibble_ze@ Quit (Quit: nibble_zero)
[21:39] <choscura> and the fields are all over the countryside, not one spot, and they rent moving vans to haul their weed around
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[21:39] <red9> "Sorry, our new super fast memory handler segfaulted, but it's cool! so now no food for you." ;)
[21:39] <stoner19> ok, well I'm convinced that the Kano kits are NOT the way to go, now just need to figure out what to get so the kids can still build their own system and find a proper OS for them to use without any guidance from me.
[21:40] <choscura> stoner19, what do you want the kids to do?
[21:40] <stoner19> I'm not necessarily looking for a means of learning to code for them. Just educational hands on computer options
[21:40] <choscura> get a vanilla raspberry pi 3 b+
[21:40] <stoner19> choscura in all honesty just get to know computers better
[21:40] <choscura> seriously, start with the basics
[21:40] <choscura> get a pi 3 b+
[21:40] <stoner19> not necessary learn to code (unless they want to)
[21:40] <choscura> run a minecraft server on it for house lan parties
[21:40] <choscura> so you use it and have a vested interest
[21:40] <red9> pi-zero = basics. 3B+ well.. not basic ;)
[21:41] <choscura> also NAS (network attached storage) to store movies and so on
[21:41] <choscura> pi zero is the barest of bare bones computer
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[21:41] <choscura> but the 3b+ is about the most basic of what I'd call a serviceable home-use full time computer if you don't have something better
[21:41] <stoner19> I have several rpis myself
[21:41] <stoner19> yeah, Minecraft has been something I've considered for them
[21:41] <stoner19> I think they'll love it. I personally don't see the appeal.
[21:41] <red9> SMT32F103 is bare bones, maybe. ATtiny would be more so.
[21:42] <choscura> well, get motioneyeos and make a pi security camera, and make that be your NAS, lol
[21:42] <stoner19> yeah, the 3b+ are great
[21:42] <choscura> pair it up with a USB microscope
[21:42] <choscura> and a gopro, and a microphone
[21:42] <choscura> DIY science youtube channel kit
[21:43] <red9> Maybe it can do a undulator controller ;)
[21:43] <choscura> or, USB telescope camera adapter
[21:43] <choscura> and a $20 telescope from goodwill, because that's srsly a reliable price/source
[21:44] <red9> goodwill sounds like USA?
[21:44] <stoner19> yes
[21:44] <choscura> yes, 'generic secondhand shop brand name'
[21:44] <choscura> replace it with your local genereci secondhand shop's actual brand name
[21:44] <red9> badwill however....
[21:44] <stoner19> you guys are funny. Throwing all these ideas for kids to do, when just turning the computer on and basic controls are something they need to understand first
[21:44] <choscura> illwill
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[21:45] <choscura> eh, the basics are the basics, don't leave them there
[21:45] <stoner19> give them too much and they'll be overwhelmed and not care to get involved.
[21:45] <red9> Give the kids some SoC chips, DRAMs, hotworking station, CAD-station, and relax :p
[21:45] <choscura> get a $20 goodwill monitor, a $20 goodwill USB microscope or a telescope and get the camera adapter off amazon, and get a USB mouse and keyboard out of your junk drawer and start them with that
[21:46] <choscura> "here's a computer" + "here's stuff a computer can do to interact with the real meatspace world".
[21:46] <red9> ohwell.. some money for PCB ordering.
[21:46] <stoner19> yeah, leaning toward that. Maybe let them pick out their own case on Amazon so they can assemble it.
[21:47] <stoner19> OS suggestions for parents "hands-off?"
[21:47] <choscura> look, my kids got bored with their pi really fast when it was just "you need to learn how to use a computer". A computer's a tool, it's like saying "you need to learn to use a saw" and then not letting them near wood with it. connect it actionably to the world.
[21:48] <stoner19> good point. They get very little screen time though so they typically are happy to so anything that involves a TV, tablet, computer, etc
[21:49] <red9> "Computer" .. https://www.cultofmac.com/242234/smallest-working-macintosh/
[21:49] <choscura> that's not a bad draw to get them to come in, but I really think the USB microscope is the best starting point. they can't, eg, take selfies with that when you're not looking, so it can't go too badly, and it makes the computer something they want to bring outside, or bring the outside to
[21:50] <red9> Computers interacting hands on with meatspace and enabling them to do things otherwise not possible is probable educational and motivational.
[21:50] <choscura> also, there's a ~$200 thermal camera from FLIR that you can wire up to the GPIO, there's radar sensors out there, you can control a drone with a pi0, etc
[21:51] <choscura> there's cool options
[21:51] <red9> And if kids are motivated. Then they will ask you for knowledge and materials.. :p
[21:51] <choscura> when they say "wouldn't it be so cool if X", say "lets look for X parts on amazon and ebay!"
[21:51] <stoner19> that is my goal red9
[21:52] <Voop> s/amazon and ebay/alibaba and dx
[21:52] <red9> (and the school is usually willfully ignorant of motivation)
[21:52] <Voop> you should also teach your kids how to be patient for a month waiting on a package from china to land
[21:53] <stoner19> oh, I just realized I have controllers for the retropi I built for them last year that aren't really being used, so it'll be great for them to each have their own if they play minecraft and things with them.
[21:53] <stoner19> Voop the trick there it never to tell your kids you ordered something until the day it delivers.
[21:54] <red9> How to cheat the VAT using China 101 ;-)
[21:54] * asteele_ (~cronoh@c-73-241-204-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[21:55] <red9> Speaking of kids.. https://gajitz.com/1950s-radioactive-science-kit-most-dangerous-toy-ever/
[21:55] <red9> Now we just need that Pi controlled reactor DIY ;^)
[21:55] <Habbie> i had a ton of fun with some kids and a neopixel ring today
[21:55] <Habbie> they loved it
[21:55] <Habbie> they can't wait to animate it next session
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[21:57] <choscura> hmm
[21:57] <choscura> maybe have them make mintypis
[21:57] <choscura> well, if they're like 8-9 or older
[21:57] <choscura> about the level of a kit model airplane or something
[21:59] <Voop> have them do a pi gameboy from scratch
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[21:59] <choscura> that's basically it
[21:59] <choscura> I suppose there's the gameboy hat thing
[21:59] <stoner19> mine are 6 and 8
[22:00] <Voop> give them a pi zero, an old nokia display, wire, switches, and a soldering iron
[22:00] * Chinesium (~Funk@unaffiliated/funk) Quit (Quit: I probably fell asleep again)
[22:01] <choscura> or at least a breadboard
[22:01] * bortzmeyer (~stephane@2a01:e35:2fb3:e1d0:244c:2036:c20d:f449) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[22:02] <Habbie> choscura, i only have two one-hour sessions left, and no 3d printer in sight
[22:02] <Habbie> Voop, if i had more time i would go somewhere in that direction after the neopixel ring
[22:02] * Keanu73 (~Keanu73@2ProIntl/User/Geek/Keanu73) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:03] <Voop> ideally youd want to come up with a project that encapsolates a wide range of parts
[22:03] <Habbie> depending on your goals
[22:03] <Voop> switches, relays, a display, leds
[22:04] <Voop> audio
[22:04] <Habbie> i don't disagree but it's not what i'm after here
[22:04] <stoner19> give them a soldering iron. LOL.
[22:04] <Habbie> stoner19, i did do that
[22:04] <Bitweasil> Supposedly those "cold" soldering irons are OK...
[22:04] <Bitweasil> But I'd just teach the kid to use a good station.
[22:04] <Habbie> what does 'cold' mean here?
[22:05] <Bitweasil> It's a resistive-through-the-solder gizmo.
[22:05] <stoner19> what got destroyed Habbie?
[22:05] <Habbie> stoner19, nothing
[22:05] <Habbie> Bitweasil, oh, fun
[22:05] <Bitweasil> https://science.howstuffworks.com/cold-heat.htm
[22:06] <Habbie> i did just open that
[22:06] <Habbie> we just do it at a few hundred degrees C
[22:06] <red9> Flying model project for bored kids.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD8Kr0f1tEY&t=12m30s ;-)
[22:07] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:07] <Bitweasil> Oh my dear. My car's Extended Waran-tie may be expiring...
[22:07] <Bitweasil> Remember when /people/ called you on a phonE?
[22:07] <Bitweasil> Not stupid text to speech spam bots?
[22:07] * ShapeShifter499 (~ShapeShif@unaffiliated/shapeshifter499) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:07] <stoner19> red9 LOL
[22:09] <red9> Explosives not included (tm) :p
[22:09] <davr0s> does the pi camera have an explicit exposure control,
[22:09] <davr0s> e..g for HDR
[22:09] <red9> Bitweasil, Phone captcha?
[22:10] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:11] <Bitweasil> "Turn the stupid thing off" is closer.
[22:11] <red9> SS7 - no security
[22:12] <red9> Phone terminals - no firewall
[22:12] <red9> What could go wrong? ;-)
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[22:19] <red9> Another nice project.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD8Kr0f1tEY&t=22m41s
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[22:35] <g1i7ch> hello. i setup my pi as a wifi ap and it worked great for months. i installed pihole and now wlan0 doesnt show up at all in iwconfig or ifconfig. anywhere else to look for info?
[22:35] * MacGeek (~BSD@host222-99-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[22:36] * Syliss (~Syliss@asa1.digitalpath.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:37] <Bitweasil> Did you try ifconfig -a ?
[22:37] * TheFatherMind (~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:38] <g1i7ch> iwconfig -a only shows eth0 and lo
[22:38] <Voop> is pihole installed in raspbian
[22:38] <Voop> or is it its own image
[22:39] <Voop> i thought it was its own image
[22:40] <g1i7ch> it was installed in raspbian. there's a bash script you can use to install it.
[22:40] <g1i7ch> it says to curl it right into bash but that's bad. i saved it then ran the script.
[22:40] <Voop> as i understand it pi-hole basically configures your pi as a router
[22:41] * GenteelBen (GenteelBen@cpc129112-lutn14-2-0-cust66.know.cable.virginm.net) Quit ()
[22:41] <Voop> did you try doing it like they said to do it
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[22:43] <g1i7ch> Voop: what do you mean?
[22:43] * Dimik (~Dimik@ool-2f1499e1.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:43] <g1i7ch> ive been trying to figure this out and in doing so i confused myself
[22:43] <Voop> curling it into bash
[22:43] <g1i7ch> yes, same outcome
[22:43] <g1i7ch> and ive tried pihole -r i think the command is
[22:44] <g1i7ch> it doesn't see the wlan0 interface but its theres an entry for one on /etc/dhcpcd.conf
[22:45] <Voop> did you try starting from clean raspbian
[22:46] <g1i7ch> yes
[22:47] <g1i7ch> i read to look in dmesg but idk what im looking for and i think im missing it
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[22:50] * orti_ (~orti@p5DE562FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:51] <g1i7ch> well i do see warning: interface wlan0 does not exist in /var/log/dnsmasq :/
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[22:56] <lopta> I probably shouldn't be googling for illuminated switches.
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[22:57] <Voop> lopta: why not
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[22:59] <lopta> Voop: I try to keep things minimal so I should have separate switches and lights.
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[23:04] <g1i7ch> i disabled pihole and i now have my wlan0 back. thanks for the help Voop and Bitweasil . probably a dnsmasq issue
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[23:37] <lopta> Does the Raspberry Pi have enough GPIO pins to scan a 3x4 keypad?
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[23:40] <BurtyB> lopta, it has enough pins and a kernel module to turn it into a keyboard :)
[23:40] <lopta> I'm guessing that's a Linux thing.
[23:41] <BurtyB> lopta, yeah (matrix-keypad)
[23:41] <lopta> Still, it's promising.
[23:41] * darksim (~quassel@78-72-41-176-no186.tbcn.telia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[23:46] <lopta> I need some toggle switches too.
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[23:51] <gordonDrogon> lopta, how about 88 LEDs and 26 keys?
[23:52] <gordonDrogon> see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFt_9LsAgso for a video of a Pi Zero doing just that ...
[23:52] * TheFatherMind (~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:54] <lopta> gordonDrogon: Nope ;-)

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