#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2018-07-27

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <Alvaros> oh ok guys gotta run
[0:00] <Alvaros> talk soon
[0:00] <Alvaros> ill tell you more about my projects later if your interested OO-Dragon
[0:01] <Alvaros> goota run
[0:01] <Alvaros> bye
[0:01] <chris_99> 'the partition never wants to unmount.' ?
[0:01] <chris_99> are you in a directory that's mounted
[0:01] <chris_99> also you need to make sure there is nothing mounted
[0:01] <chris_99> when you use fsck
[0:02] <MoPower_UPS> without knowing more.. when strange things start happening with partitions I find it mostly points to a corrupt SD card.
[0:02] <Tenacious-Techhu> chris_99, trying to diagnose SD Card problems.
[0:02] <chris_99> do you have anything impportant on the card
[0:03] <Tenacious-Techhu> chris_99, it isn't mounted when I run it.
[0:03] <chris_99> ok cool
[0:04] <chris_99> did it find any problems
[0:05] <Tenacious-Techhu> I've been through the "just reinstall" conversation before; I want to find out for sure what's wrong with it so I recognize it in the future.
[0:05] <Tenacious-Techhu> It found some inode and directory problems.
[0:05] * _BigWings_ (~Thunderbi@modemcable037.137-178-173.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[0:06] <chris_99> and you accepted the changes?
[0:06] <Tenacious-Techhu> For some reason, they don't get fixed, and if you run fsck again, the problems are still there. But I can still write to it, so...
[0:07] <Tenacious-Techhu> Yeah, said "yes" to everything.
[0:08] <chris_99> you could try fsck -ay /dev/blah, but i think that's just the same as what you've done by saying yes. what happens when you mount the fs?
[0:09] <Tenacious-Techhu> Reads, writes, still there on reboot, but won't unmount. No bad blocks reported on a forced block check.
[0:10] <chris_99> what do you mean unmount, you're mounting it on another pc right
[0:10] <ShorTie> sounds like the sdcard has gone bad
[0:11] <chris_99> if you have trouble unmounting something, you can see what's currently using it with lsof
[0:12] * greggerz (~greggerz@unaffiliated/greggerz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:12] <Tenacious-Techhu> chris_99, when you mount it to check it, for some reason, it won't unmount when it should.
[0:13] <chris_99> ok try doing that now, and use lsof to see why its not umounting
[0:13] <Tenacious-Techhu> ShorTie, if you have a specific test to suggest, I would be happy to hear it.
[0:13] <chris_99> make sure you're not 'in the directory'
[0:13] <chris_99> while unmounting
[0:14] <Tenacious-Techhu> chris_99, I'll double-check that...
[0:14] * Gathis (~TheBlack@unaffiliated/gathis) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:15] <chris_99> would i be right in thinking with /dev/gpiomem you can use the same offsets as used for /dev/mem
[0:16] <chris_99> (obviously not to access none gpio stuff though)
[0:17] * phiofx (~philippos@ Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[0:21] <Tenacious-Techhu> Good catch on the unmounting issue... Just my mistake of being in the mounted directory when I tried to unmount it, I guess.
[0:23] <Tenacious-Techhu> So how do I figure out why my fsck changes aren't being written?
[0:23] <chris_99> you mean, next time you run fsck
[0:23] <chris_99> you get the same issues
[0:24] <Tenacious-Techhu> Yup.
[0:26] <chris_99> and you ran it as root
[0:26] <Tenacious-Techhu> Yup.
[0:26] <chris_99> could just be the card is screwed then
[0:27] <chris_99> unless the card is read only, but i guess it wouldn't let you fsck it then
[0:27] <Tenacious-Techhu> Could be, but how do I know for sure?
[0:27] <chris_99> some of my cards have a little tab on them, but they're the bigger cards
[0:27] <chris_99> i guess you have the newer pi?
[0:28] * shiroininja (~shiroinin@ Quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
[0:29] <Tenacious-Techhu> I have a 3, not a 3+, or whatever it's called.
[0:29] <chris_99> ah you'll have the small cards then
[0:29] <chris_99> which i don't think have a tab on anyway
[0:32] * TheSin (~TheSin@node-1w7jra1z89kvfiium1i9i059j.ipv6.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:33] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, when things like the check disk don't fix errors, it usually means a hardware issue, which is something we can't really fix and only difficutly diagnose
[0:34] <Tenacious-Techhu> As I said, you can write files to it when it's mounted... Unfortunately, the fsck changes aren't also saved after the file write. If there were bad blocks, I would assume some blocks were stuck in read-only mode... But a forced block check shows no bad blocks.
[0:34] <binaryhermit> and I think the tabs are frequently useless anyway, a lot of sd card readers ignore them
[0:35] <chris_99> oh heh, i thought they'd affect the card itself
[0:35] <chris_99> as it make it impossible
[0:35] <chris_99> to write
[0:35] <binaryhermit> I think the original pis did for instance, the A and B, not to be confused with the A+ and B+
[0:36] <d0rm0us3> software only... reads for the tab.. so if software on pi doesn't support that function...
[0:36] * d0rm0us3 shrugs
[0:37] <chris_99> haha
[0:37] <chris_99> floppy disks had a tab too right
[0:37] <chris_99> which you could tape over iirc
[0:37] <chris_99> or something
[0:37] <d0rm0us3> Yeppers
[0:38] <d0rm0us3> Same with the 3.5
[0:38] <d0rm0us3> Only theirs was a tab similar in nature to the sd cards
[0:39] <d0rm0us3> On the 3.5 it was combo software & hardware... a 'lever' would either go down into the tab 'slot' or it wouldn't..
[0:39] <d0rm0us3> That's what activated/deactivated the write sequence... iirc
[0:39] <chris_99> i thought some disk drives used an optical thing for it, but could be wrong
[0:40] <d0rm0us3> Nah... much simpler from mfg standpoint to use physical.
[0:40] <d0rm0us3> Optics can burn out...
[0:41] <d0rm0us3> Mechanical is less likely to malfunction... unless you force things.
[0:41] <chris_99> i love some of the silly music playing things people make with floppy drives
[0:42] * wyseguy_ (~wyseguy@unaffiliated/wyseguy) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:42] <d0rm0us3> One guy did the 1812 Overture on a scanner..
[0:42] <chris_99> haha
[0:43] <xaviergmail> Hi, the official touch screen is blank *only* when enabling Full KMS graphics hardware acceleration
[0:43] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, can you post the out put of fsck?
[0:43] <xaviergmail> But if I plug a monitor into the HDMI port then it works. Any ideas?
[0:45] <Tenacious-Techhu> OO-Dragon, not really, sorry.
[0:46] <Tenacious-Techhu> Mostly just, "Fix this (y/n)?", me doing "y", and no errors I can see.
[0:46] * wigums (~wigums@unaffiliated/wigums) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.1)
[0:49] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, I ask, because it does say certain things that are not "issues" to be resolved, just counts of area's its checked
[0:49] <OO-Dragon> do you have a phone to take a picture and upload online somewhere to share?
[0:50] <ShorTie> some floppies you had to use a hole punch on to make a timing hole
[0:50] * Singmyr (~singmyr@ Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:50] <chris_99> a timing hole?
[0:51] <ShorTie> the only test is, the hours you have tried to fix this thing
[0:51] <Tenacious-Techhu> OO-Dragon, counts such as?
[0:51] <ShorTie> ya, old 5 1/4"
[0:51] * Spr1ng (~Spr1ng@unaffiliated/spr1ng) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.2)
[0:51] <chris_99> sorry what does timing hole mean, that's different to write protect?
[0:51] <ShorTie> time for new sdcard, imho
[0:52] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, It would just be a lot easier to see, as there is lots that will catch my eye, but not much I can pre-warn you about now
[0:52] <ShorTie> it is a hole in the jack that a light shins thru when the hole in the disk lines up
[0:52] <ShorTie> s/jack/jacket/
[0:53] <chris_99> oh hmm, is that done so the disk is in the right place?
[0:53] <ShorTie> guess nuffin, just relating old floppy disk modes
[0:53] <ShorTie> you ever see a 5 1/4" floppy ??
[0:53] * d0rm0us3 really misses the old Shugart SH400's
[0:53] <d0rm0us3> s/sh/sa
[0:53] <Tenacious-Techhu> Yeah, the "rescue distro" I'm running now is just RetroPie with netsurf-fb on it.
[0:54] <Tenacious-Techhu> Not very conducive to pastebin.
[0:54] <chris_99> "Another LED/photo-transistor pair located near the center of the disk detects the index hole once per rotation in the magnetic disk; it is used to detect the angular start of each track and whether or not the disk is rotating at the correct speed. "
[0:54] <chris_99> neat
[0:55] <ShorTie> https://www.youbioit.com/en/article/1363/5-14-floppy-disk
[0:55] <chris_99> yeah ive seen a 51/4 disk a long while ago heh
[0:55] <chris_99> wait 5 and 1/2 i mean
[0:55] <chris_99> i think
[0:55] <OO-Dragon> So how are you connecting the bad SD card to it in order to run fsck?
[0:56] <MoPower_UPS> yeah 5 1/4"... and before that they were 8"!
[0:56] <Tenacious-Techhu> Just an SS Card adapter.
[0:56] * Syliss (~Hobomobo@asa1.digitalpath.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:56] <chris_99> ShorTie: https://www.anfractuosity.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/2015-08-05-195008.jpg that's from a 3 1/2" I made with magnetic developer, i wanted to try and read it optically heh
[0:57] <ShorTie> but nothing beat using casset tapes, lol.
[0:57] <ShorTie> Cool
[0:58] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, I think there may be a tad too many variables and not enough straight console output and picture evidence. If you can find a way to snap a picture and upload it, I can do a bit more
[1:00] <Tenacious-Techhu> OO-Dragon, variables such as?
[1:01] * HighInBC (~highinbc@unaffiliated/chillum) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[1:02] <ShorTie> sdcards can fail and do strange things
[1:03] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, such as, unkown state, brand or history of the SD card, the pie its being used in, what versions you are running, was there something particular that happened just before it died? is this a second hand SD card? etc, etc. Not that these in particular are super important, but its just a lack of this kind of information, and those peices of information I call variables.
[1:03] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[1:04] <OO-Dragon> not being able to verify output of what you are saying, is another variable, as there could be human error or, more to the point of what I suspect, its saying something important you are glazing over
[1:04] <ShorTie> what kind of power supply are you using ??
[1:04] <ShorTie> that is like the #1 reason for sdcard failures
[1:04] <OO-Dragon> all these things help us get closer and closer to a solution. a lack there of makes it hard to move forward. Since we have covered the basics, we need more info now
[1:04] <ShorTie> have you measured the usb voltage when running ??
[1:06] <Tenacious-Techhu> OO-Dragon, I get that, just not sure how to get that info to you in a useful format.
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[1:08] <d0rm0us3> pics of the screen..
[1:08] * wyseguy (~wyseguy@unaffiliated/wyseguy) Quit (Client Quit)
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[1:09] <Tenacious-Techhu> Too many screens worth of pics.
[1:11] * d0rm0us3 goes tools down and recommends simply replacing the card.
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[1:18] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, sounds like you now have 2 problems where you had one. bad SD card and no way to relay needed information.
[1:19] <Tenacious-Techhu> OO-Dragon, just tell me what to test.
[1:20] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, It doesn't work that way at this point. you tried the quick fixes, it didn't fix it. now you need to go the long route and export the diagnostic information to those trying to help.
[1:22] <ShorTie> have you backup the important infomation off of it ??
[1:22] <OO-Dragon> ShorTie, from my understandings, he just wants to figure out why it happened so he can fix it, should it happen again.
[1:23] * break19 (~break19@unaffiliated/break19) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:23] <ShorTie> sdcards do stupid stuff nobody can explain
[1:23] <ShorTie> only cure is new
[1:25] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, if you gave someone root ssh access to the device with the SD card in it, they could probably figure it out, but i would NOT recommend that, due to the security concerns
[1:26] <OO-Dragon> and of course it depends greatly on the skill level of the one connecting
[1:26] <Tenacious-Techhu> I'm perfectly capable of executive g
[1:26] <Tenacious-Techhu> Bah.
[1:27] <erm3nda> not only skill level, also u may be busy or lazy and don't notice anything. except if you have some check services for "everything" you must check for things.
[1:27] <ShorTie> you know the pi does NOT have full control of the sdcard right ??
[1:27] <ShorTie> it does wear leveling on it's own, when it wants too
[1:27] <ShorTie> get a blip of power and ......
[1:28] <Tenacious-Techhu> I'm perfectly capable of executing the right things on my own, thanks. Honestly, what would be more useful is some documentation on SD Card failure modes, and how to test for them.
[1:30] <OO-Dragon> Just want document direction eh? give me a sec, I'll see what I got
[1:30] <ShorTie> way to many different card manufactures and posible failures for all that
[1:30] <ShorTie> just not worth it
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[1:32] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, This will help in figuring out hardware issues. https://ccollins.wordpress.com/2016/01/18/testing-sd-cards-with-linux/ If its software, fsck will fix it (unless it just happened to be writting a system file when it lost or bumbed power)
[1:33] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, this may also be helpful for SD card history and such http://anthony-godinho.blogspot.com/p/types-of-sd-cards.html
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[1:34] <Tenacious-Techhu> Hypothetically, if a block was stuck in read-only, what is going on makes sense, but that sounds like a bad block, to me...
[1:34] <OO-Dragon> yeah, if the SD card still works, it should auto mark it as a bad block and continue on
[1:35] <OO-Dragon> this might help identify them
[1:35] <OO-Dragon> https://linux.101hacks.com/unix/badblocks/
[1:35] <OO-Dragon> I never head of it before I just searched, but apparently it can find and tell you about bad blocks.
[1:36] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, Is this more of what you were looking for?
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[1:39] <Tenacious-Techhu> Only looked at one so far... I don't need a survey of the SD Card market and transfer rates; I need failure modes, relevant diagnostics, and what the results of each failure mode look like.
[1:39] * erm3nda (~erm3nda@ Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[1:40] <Tenacious-Techhu> badocks doesn't really work fully with SD Cards.
[1:41] <OO-Dragon> Then your pretty much stuck with whatever fsck can do. There are no fancy things like SMART for SD cards (how HDD's can get more diag info)
[1:42] <OO-Dragon> But considering how large and fast the next gen of SD cards are, I'm sure they'll implement it soon, since their use case becomes attractive in a lot of places
[1:43] <d0rm0us3> search for ATD cards
[1:43] <d0rm0us3> I think they even have a diagnostic soft.
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[1:44] <d0rm0us3> Main problem is you're trying to run a software pkg from the SD card..
[1:44] <Tenacious-Techhu> That final article has more to do with whether a card is fake than in what particular way it has failed. I'm more concerned with what causes a fully operational card to go bad in a Pi environment.
[1:44] <d0rm0us3> Once the software is 'live' those areas of the card are now 'locked'
[1:45] <OO-Dragon> but the procedures can still tell you if there are hardware issues with it. the only reason its known to be fake, is because its failing the hardware tests
[1:45] <OO-Dragon> d0rm0us3, from my understandings, he has a USB sd card reading, holding the "bad" SD card, while running raspbian on the pi itself.
[1:46] <Tenacious-Techhu> OO-Dragon, I'm more interested in next-gen SD Cards featuring built-in SATA controllers for more read and write reliability, than any sort of speed increase.
[1:47] <d0rm0us3> OO-Dragon, isn't that kind of limiting?
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[1:48] <Tenacious-Techhu> OO-Dragon, if Microcenter was selling bad SD Cards, I think I would have heard something about that.
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[1:48] <OO-Dragon> d0rm0us3, a lot of what and how he's trying to do things give me pause. but no, I'm pretty sure relevant SD card stuff can be done over the USB interface
[1:48] * d0rm0us3 isn't really interested in frying two 32gb cards for experimentation
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[1:49] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, sorry, I don't mean to say its fake. I'm saying, the test the use to find fake items, will also show simple hardware issues, such as if you have a lot of bad sectors, its going to show you just how many
[1:49] <Tenacious-Techhu> I'm more interested in whether this is a manufacturing defect, wear, or some other more legitimate failure.
[1:50] <Tenacious-Techhu> Sectors are only for platters, not flash menory.
[1:50] <d0rm0us3> That's why mtbf numbers exist
[1:50] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, assuming what you have said is true and the sdx you ran fsck on was the correct drive, its a hardware issue
[1:51] <Tenacious-Techhu> Based on?
[1:51] <d0rm0us3> oooooo.. nicely done
[1:51] <OO-Dragon> Tenacious-Techhu, it did not fix the issues you mentioned. meaning its unable to write to at least part of the SD card
[1:51] <OO-Dragon> = hardware issue
[1:52] <Tenacious-Techhu> But why aren't those parts reading as bad blocks?
[1:52] <OO-Dragon> however, if there is more to it then that (which I can't verify without some kind of proof), then anyones guess is as good as mine
[1:52] <d0rm0us3> micro-crack in a run to/from mem chip
[1:52] <OO-Dragon> I don't have access to the detailed documentation of the SD manufacturing process to tell you with any certainty.
[1:53] <OO-Dragon> when it goes to the point of Hardware issue, your done
[1:53] <d0rm0us3> replace the 'black box' ;)
[1:53] <OO-Dragon> at least for a SD card
[1:54] * Neros (~Neros@31-32-241-72.abo.bbox.fr) Quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.github.io)
[1:54] <OO-Dragon> bb in 20
[1:54] <Tenacious-Techhu> I get that if it's a hardware issue, it needs to be replaced; what I'm not clear on is why fsck, or some other tool, doesn't report the card as faulty.
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[1:58] <shauno> "why it happened" and "so he can fix it, should it happen again" are entirely disconnected. if it happens again, you replace it again.
[1:59] <shauno> bah, I was scrolled up. sorry
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[2:00] <shauno> (and fsck doesn't do anything for hardware faults. it diagnoses the filesystem, not the underlying media)
[2:00] <Tenacious-Techhu> Well sure, but it could at least verify its writes...
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[2:01] <Tenacious-Techhu> shauno, what should I use to test the hardware?
[2:01] <shauno> why? a cdrom is a valid filesystem, afterall
[2:02] <shauno> it doesn't need to be writable to be valid
[2:02] <Tenacious-Techhu> Why what?
[2:03] <shauno> why should it test that it writes? that's not the filesystem's job
[2:04] <Tenacious-Techhu> When fsck attempts to correct an error, it must do so by writing. Those writes should be verified, and if they fail, an error should be thrown.
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[2:39] <genr8_> SD cards just go bad man
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[2:40] <genr8_> you wanna find out why? Start a Ph.D on the microscopic quantum tunneling effects of electrons on silicon NAND (likely to be something so complex as to be what affects it)
[2:40] <DJDan> hey.. i setup on node red a listener on mosi, miso, sclk and ce0... and the CDJ now doesnt error on the internal screen... 0 and 1 data seems to be coming in on both mosi and miso, and sclk and ceo0 ocasionally change too...
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[2:47] <Tenacious-Techhu> O.K., so, one of the answers on this page confirms my problem is, in fact, a hardware issue:
[2:48] <Tenacious-Techhu> https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/73646/detect-automatically-whether-is-microsd-sd-card-is-dying
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[6:45] <DJDan> gordonDrogon: with gpio how do i disable the miso pin, so i dont need to physically disable it? and if i change the mode of a pin and restart raspbian, will it change back to the default mode that it was previously?
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[7:30] <Curi0> those spam links are fake blogs don't listen to what they say
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[7:53] <erm3nda> Curi0, what u talking about?
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[7:55] <chris_99> i didn't see any links
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[7:59] <erm3nda> that's the point of my question
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[8:06] <chris_99> gordonDrogon: if you're about per chance, with gpiomem do you know if you can access hardware PWM?
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[8:36] <gordonDrogon> chris_99, you can't change the clock registers with gpiomem.
[8:36] <gordonDrogon> tso effectively, no.
[8:36] <chris_99> ah, thanks, pity
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[10:20] <DJDan> gordonDrogon: with gpio how do i disable the miso pin, so i dont need to physically disable it? and if i change the mode of a pin and restart raspbian, will it change back to the default mode that it was previously? is there a better way then sudo echo 9 > /sys/class/gpio/unexport to disable GPIO pin 11 (MISO)? will that temporarily disable it and it will change back on reboot of device?
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[10:22] <gordonDrogon> you don't disable it, you just change the mode. at reboot it will rever to whatever devtree module is enabled - if you have enabled SPI then it will revert to SPI function (output, set high)
[10:23] <gordonDrogon> unexport does nothing and it's use is discouraged.
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[10:23] <DJDan> oh.. then what do i do instead.. i have pin 10 (mosi)on the rpi connected.. i just wanna disable it without taking out the pin
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[10:26] <DJDan> what mode should it be instead of ALT0
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[10:30] <DJDan> theres no mode to disable it... theres only in,out,pwm,clock,up,down,tri
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[10:36] <Habbie> DJDan, why do you want to disable it?
[10:37] <DJDan> Habbie: so that data doesnt go from the RPI back to the CDJ...
[10:38] <Habbie> which is a hat?
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[10:38] <DJDan> Habbie: hat? a cd deck
[10:40] <Habbie> oh
[10:40] <Habbie> then just disconnect that pin?
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[10:40] <DJDan> Habbie: can i do it without detatching
[10:41] <DJDan> i would like to do it with software
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[10:46] <DJDan> Habbie: do you know?
[10:49] <BurtyB> is "tri" not enough?
[10:49] <DJDan> BurtyB: what does tri do? will it disable miso from sending commands back?
[10:49] * Damni (~daniele@host204-155-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.2)
[10:51] <chris_99> you can get a thing called a tristate, that is either a 1, 0, or 'open' meaning it's not connected
[10:52] <DJDan> so if i set mosi to TRI.. how do i change it to open?
[10:52] <DJDan> miso*
[10:54] <chris_99> i don't know if the spi stuff can do tristate on a pi
[10:54] <DJDan> gpio mode 13 tri didnt seem to do anything
[10:54] <DJDan> its still on ALT0
[10:55] <BurtyB> it will be unless you change it
[10:55] <DJDan> i tried gpio mode 13 tri
[10:55] <chris_99> is this the cd thing?
[10:56] <DJDan> chris_99: yeah, just trying few things
[10:56] <chris_99> are you still using spi though?
[10:57] <DJDan> chris_99: yes, i understand its a slave and needs to be master..but im trying couple things
[10:58] <DJDan> BurtyB: gpio mode 13 tri didnt change it from a ALT0 state, is there another way to disable it
[10:58] <chris_99> im just trying to understand how you're trying to do this with spi. Would i not be right in thinking there is no clock input?
[10:59] <DJDan> chris_99: what do you mean?
[10:59] <chris_99> is in, the spi clock is an outpuit
[10:59] <chris_99> on the pi
[10:59] <chris_99> isnt it?
[10:59] <chris_99> someone correct me if that's wrong
[11:00] <chris_99> which is why i don't understand how what you're doing can work?
[11:01] <DJDan> i dont know
[11:01] <chris_99> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Peripheral_Interface#/media/File:SPI_single_slave.svg
[11:02] <chris_99> look at the arrows
[11:02] <chris_99> if spi is master it's sending a clock
[11:02] <DJDan> is the clock meant to be on just a general gpio pin then
[11:03] * break19 (~break19@unaffiliated/break19) Quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
[11:05] <DJDan> ?
[11:05] <chris_99> the clock is part of how spi works, for master --> slave, you send a byte of data, while it emits the clock, then it carries on sending the clock, while a byte is recieved for example
[11:05] <chris_99> at least that's how i understand it
[11:06] <chris_99> oh sorry that's wrong i think
[11:07] <chris_99> i think you get a bit for each bit you send now maybe
[11:07] <chris_99> "The master sends a bit on the MOSI line and the slave reads it, while the slave sends a bit on the MISO line and the master reads it. This sequence is maintained even when only one-directional data transfer is intended. "
[11:07] <DJDan> well for starter, i want to know how to disable pins... because i think either ce0 is causing the internal screen to error/freeze or SPI needs to properly be setup... because if i enable nodered, it seems to allow the internal screen, but once disabled it doesnt
[11:07] <chris_99> without an input clock im pretty sure this isn't going to work
[11:08] <chris_99> unless you didn't use spi, and just sniffed the clock line and data line by polling
[11:08] <chris_99> but then , why not just get a logic analyser
[11:09] <DJDan> i dont know what results its getting..
[11:10] <DJDan> i was trying to disable miso so data doesnt go back from rpi to the cd... or shouldnt i
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[11:10] <chris_99> why ?
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[11:10] <chris_99> how are you clocking the data
[11:11] <DJDan> chris_99: theres mosi, miso, sclk, ce0, and ground connected.
[11:11] <chris_99> slck is connected to what
[11:12] <chris_99> and also show the code
[11:12] <chris_99> youre using
[11:12] <DJDan> sclk is connected to sclk.. which as u pointed out is probably wrong... i have no code currently
[11:12] <DJDan> i was using nodered as a test... and just putting it to debug
[11:12] <chris_99> ok, i bet you get the same results
[11:13] <chris_99> even if sclk
[11:13] <chris_99> isn't connected
[11:13] <chris_99> to the player
[11:13] <chris_99> try that
[11:13] <DJDan> how do i disable through software a pin...MISO didnt work when putting to tri mode
[11:13] <chris_99> just disconnect slck for me
[11:13] <chris_99> and tell me what you get
[11:15] <DJDan> i cant, cause i cant seperate it from the other pins
[11:15] <DJDan> which is why i wanted to do it via software
[11:15] <chris_99> heh
[11:15] <chris_99> can't you just use dupont jumper wires
[11:16] <DJDan> is there a way to just disable via software
[11:16] <DJDan> i dont understand why MISO cant change to tri state and be put to disabled
[11:17] <chris_99> i seriously think you should disconenct slck somehow, and i bet the results are the same
[11:18] <DJDan> https://github.com/DjFix/spi-spy .. im trying to do this, but using the RPI
[11:23] <DJDan> chris_99: how do i setup spi full duplex, cpol high, clock phase, 2 edge.. msb first?
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[11:28] <DJDan> its strange that using a script in nodered makes the screen works
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[11:29] <DJDan> the mosi and miso, sclk and ceo seem to have 0 and 1s in my nodered scripts..
[11:33] <DJDan> chris_99: any ideas as to why? how do i actually setup the full duplex, cpol, clock phase, msb first etc?
[11:34] <chris_99> i think the clock signal is the issue
[11:34] <DJDan> isnt a clock signal required tho
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[11:36] <chris_99> yes that's what i'm saying, because the pi seemingly can't take a clock signal in there is an issue
[11:37] <DJDan> if i change the sclk pin to input instead of output would that work?
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[11:40] <DJDan> how do i see what the code that nodered is actually generating
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[11:49] <gordonDrogon> DJDan, of-course, you can always look at the souce code of the various gpio drivers that exist out there..
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[11:52] <DJDan> gordonDrogon: im trying to workout how to disable pins via software, and puzzled why my nodered script makes the CDJ Internal screen work, while generally the RPI confuses it and freezes it... why cant wiringpi set MISO to tri state and then disable the pin? is that at all possible?
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[11:56] <gordonDrogon> 1. I don't give a hoot about node anything. The people who put that together are incompetent and have caused me no end of hassle. 2. I mentioned briefly earlier how to do it. You simple change the pin mode. Use the gpio program or a C or BASIC program if you like, just change the mode to input and remove the pull up/down resistors. that's 2 gpio commands if you do it that way or 2 lines of C or BASIC code
[11:58] <gordonDrogon> if you want it 'permanent' then remove the SPI driver at boot time using raspi-config. the pin will default to input mode, but there may be a pull up/down set. You may be able to change this by writing your own device tree thingy that's loaded at boot time.
[11:58] <chris_99> haha how did they hassle you out of interest? i don't use node just curious
[11:58] * t3chn0pvnk (~t3chn0pun@a36t-bbb01.berlin.freifunk.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:00] <gordonDrogon> they statically linked an old version of wiringPi, so when, in December 2016 the upgrade to 4.9 was made, it all broke. I've had over 10,000 emails about it now (not just node but other javas and languages and systems that also statically linked wiringPi)
[12:00] <gordonDrogon> I still get 3 or 4 a week even now.
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[12:00] <chris_99> bugger
[12:01] * lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPE64777d632383-CM64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:01] <gordonDrogon> I have automated the replies, so it's less hassle now.
[12:02] <gordonDrogon> just goes to show the level of competence out there... )-:
[12:02] <chris_99> haha, how's that work, greps for keywords?
[12:04] <gordonDrogon> partly procmail filters and some 'hot keys' in my email client.
[12:04] <chris_99> cool
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[12:13] <DJDan> oh thats what it was doing.... it changed the SPI from ALT0 to IN..... if the pins are just mode in, is SPI Data still able to be read..cause something comes through
[12:14] <DJDan> i currently disabled SPI so that the CDJ functions when the RPI boots
[12:14] <DJDan> with raspiconfig
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[12:31] <DJDan> if i want to set MISO/MOSI etc... manually after boot how would i do that? if in raspi-config i disabled spi... can i now just use gpio program to change the individual pins back to spi?
[12:37] <gordonDrogon> you can do that in e.g. /etc/rc.local using the gpio program, however you can't easily load the spi kernel module.
[12:38] <gordonDrogon> you could have the module loaded then change the pin modes and as long as you don't open a kernel spi device it ought to leave the pins alone.
[12:39] <DJDan> i see.. the problem is, with SPI Module loaded the CDJ would Error / Freeze the internal screen. But now that it seems to be set to Mode: In instead of ALT0.. it seems to be fine cause theres no SPI
[12:39] * mythos (~mythos@unaffiliated/mythos) Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[12:40] <DJDan> which is what my program was doing apparently
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[12:41] <DJDan> MISO seems to have data coming in.. with MODE: In... not sure if its correct tho
[12:41] <DJDan> but 0s and 1s keep changing
[12:42] <DJDan> both MISO/MOSI
[12:42] <gordonDrogon> at this point I'd be thinking that perhaps the Pi is not the right device for this.
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[12:43] <DJDan> yeah ill be getting a STM with a SPI Shifter eventually.. im just attempting this in the meantime
[12:44] <chris_99> Anyone seen these kernel messages before - https://pastebin.com/raw/vtXdbqyY
[12:44] <DJDan> whats the difference between Read: In and SPI
[12:44] <chris_99> ahh https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/93513/mmcqd-hangs-and-burns-the-cpu-on-the-embedded-device hmm
[12:44] <DJDan> can i just get the data from read in
[12:45] <gordonDrogon> no idea what you mean by read in.
[12:46] <DJDan> well, MOSI and MISO seems to have data of some sort, not sure what its doing... im trying to read the CDJ Packets.. which have the button presses, waveform, pitch and other info
[12:46] <gordonDrogon> well - as I'm sure you know by now; you can't.
[12:46] <gordonDrogon> at least not with wiringPi. I did point out alternatives that you don't seem to have looked at so-far.
[12:47] <gordonDrogon> however if both mosi and miso have data on them, then something is wrong. MISO, is an INPUT to the Pi - *ALWAYS* and MOSI is an output from the Pi *ALWAYS*.
[12:47] <gordonDrogon> MISO => Master IN, Slave Out.
[12:48] <DJDan> i plugged miso from the cdj to mosi on the pi.. and mosi on the pi to miso on the cdj
[12:48] * sameee (~sameee@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:48] <gordonDrogon> have you considered that the protocol is not SPI ?
[12:49] <DJDan> except that im sure it is.... https://github.com/DjFix/spi-spy
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[12:50] <DJDan> theres code around for the STM, just not the RPI
[12:55] <mfa298> are we still on this conversation about how to make the pi do something it cant (at least not with some major effort from very knowldgeable people)
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[12:56] <mfa298> gordonDrogon: tl;dr from yesterdays discussion he's trying to use the pi as an SPI slave to read data from the spi bus in his CDJ
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[12:57] <gordonDrogon> yea, and as I said above;
[12:57] <gordonDrogon> well - as I'm sure you know by now; you can't.
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[12:59] <DJDan> mfa298: yeh i know.. just learning about the SPI Data, and confused as why even with SPI data turned off in raspiconfig there is some sort of signal going back and forth with MOSI/MISO/SCLK/CE0.. thats about all..
[12:59] <mfa298> if the pi running Linux is going to act as a useful SPI slave I think the first thing it would need is some decent kernel driver for userspace stuff to talk to.
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[13:02] <mfa298> DJDan: if the pins are connected to something (the CDJ) then they'll see "data", however it's not going to be useful data, just noise.
[13:02] <gordonDrogon> pigpio can sample pins - at I think either 5 or mayby 2�S resolutions. you could use that to implement an SPI reciever as long as the clock speed was low enough.
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[13:06] <DJDan> gordonDrogon: how would i go about doing so? im not even sure the sclk pin is getting the right data
[13:06] <DJDan> but its certinally changing
[13:07] <gordonDrogon> DJDan, you're now asking me about something I don't know, but have suggested to you. My consultancy fee is �10,000 for the project. How do you want to pay?
[13:07] <DJDan> lol. fairenough
[13:08] <DJDan> so basically any GPIO pin can become a SPI?
[13:09] <mfa298> DJDan: the first thing you would need to find out is how fast the spi data on the cdj is clocked. Time for you to get out the logic analyser.
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[13:10] <DJDan> theres 7 lots of 26 bytes... where every 26 byte is a CRC check if thats what u mean
[13:10] <mfa298> you can bitbang various protocols but it's not going to be fast.
[13:10] <mfa298> that's not what i mean, *how fast* isn't the same as *how much*
[13:12] <mfa298> I mean what rate is the clock running at, I'd expect an answer in KHz or Mhz
[13:14] <gordonDrogon> can you post that link to the schematic again?
[13:14] <gordonDrogon> I could scroll up but am lazy.
[13:14] <mfa298> if the answer is >~100KHz then pigpio sampling is unlikely to work well (roughly based on gordonDrogon's numbers above)
[13:14] <DJDan> https://www.manualslib.com/manual/900348/Pioneer-Cdj-1000mk3.html
[13:16] <DJDan> im not sure how to find out the exact clock rate.. but i assume u know from the schmantic
[13:16] <gordonDrogon> what page was it on?
[13:17] <DJDan> were u talking about the service manual or https://github.com/djgreeb/CDJ-1000mk3_new_life_project/blob/master/CDJ-1000mk3%20new%20life%20self%20assembly%20manual.pdf
[13:18] <DJDan> djgreeb is the guy who did the STM Mod
[13:18] <gordonDrogon> the one that had the schematic of the connector with the serial pins
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[13:19] <DJDan> oh u probably mean 5. of the last link
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[13:25] <gordonDrogon> can't find it. I thought I saw a schematic of the actual interface yesterday where I'm sure the spi clock was designed to be driven from the external device, but can't be sure now.
[13:26] <DJDan> it would be in the service manual on the first link, or the mod on the second
[13:27] <DJDan> page 48 of service manual has sclk
[13:28] <DJDan> 48, 50, 51
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[13:28] <DJDan> the sclk is on most boards
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[13:29] <gordonDrogon> page 27 was the one I think.
[13:29] <DJDan> page 105.. says theres a io dual dis_sclk... FL microcomputer (IC1002) clock inpu
[13:29] <DJDan> input
[13:29] <gordonDrogon> that one shows sclk is an input to the device.
[13:29] <gordonDrogon> so the Pi can drive it as an SPI master.
[13:30] <DJDan> ive soldiered onto the top lcd internal board main header.... as show on the second pdf..
[13:31] <gordonDrogon> oh well. have fun with it.
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[13:32] <DJDan> im not... its not doing much lol.... not sure which doc u want... https://github.com/djgreeb/CDJ-1000mk3_new_life_project/blob/master/CDJ-1000mk3%20new%20life%20self%20assembly%20manual.pdf towards the end is the XC GND V+5D main pin header that i have everything on
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[13:34] <mfa298> from the first pdf it seems to suggest the cdjs signals are 5v - which will break your pi if you don't have a suitable level shifter
[13:35] <DJDan> mfa298: ah i think the cdj is 5v.. i dunno :/
[13:35] <artok> oh, how I have deja vu from that
[13:35] <artok> I did say that 2-3 times yesterday =D
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[13:36] <mfa298> there's also a bunch of waveforms, with what might be the right one for the data bus showing the clock as mostly a black blob with 20uS/div
[13:36] <DJDan> "In the CDJ-1000, the SPI master is the display controller that is mounted on the board below the display, and the FPGA Xilinx, on the Main Assy board is the slave. The SPI bus can not have 2 master devices at the same time, so in any case you must configure Rpi to slave mode"
[13:36] <mfa298> DJDan: if you put 5v into the pi gpio you're buying a new pi at some point soon.
[13:37] <DJDan> mfa298: im using the SPI ports
[13:37] <DJDan> Mosi,Miso,Sclk,Gnd and CE0
[13:37] <mfa298> the SPI on the pi will only tollerate 3v3 not 5v.
[13:38] <DJDan> "the clock frequency is set by the master device. I watched the oscilloscope these signals, they are not constant, apparently depends on the loading of the display controller. The packet is repeated approximately 440 times per second. In the package 27 bytes"
[13:38] <mfa298> "so in any case you must configure Rpi to slave mode" - which you can't do with the spi peripheral on the pi with Linux.
[13:38] <brianx> DJDan: this is the 4th channel i've seen you asking the same thing in over and over. stop spamming us with repeat questions.
[13:38] <DJDan> its 5v logic level
[13:38] <brianx> you have the answer.
[13:39] <brianx> you need an spi spy tool
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[13:39] <brianx> that can be a bus pirate
[13:39] <brianx> or can be something like the stm32 project you found.
[13:39] <DJDan> yeah,but apparently it might be able to be done with pigpio library or something if the clock rate is right
[13:40] <brianx> the pi itself cannot do spi spying on it's own except at very low bit rate.
[13:40] * mfa298 gives up. I've sounded like a broken record (or is that CD) for too long now - good luck with doing the nearly impossible.
[13:40] * erm3nda (~erm3nda@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[13:40] <brianx> no DJDan, pigpio cannot do this.
[13:40] <chris_99> heh mfa298
[13:41] <chris_99> this is the 2nd day now
[13:41] <brianx> you must use a bus pirate or similar DJDan.
[13:41] <artok> broken sd card/usb stick
[13:42] <artok> I still played vinyl back in 2005
[13:42] <brianx> stop asking the same thing over and over. several people have given you the same answer.
[13:42] <chris_99> vinyl seems kind of popular again now?
[13:42] <gordonDrogon> I heat compact casette tape is making a come back too. Hipster Millenials. Pah.
[13:42] <chris_99> haha
[13:43] <ground> My script to convert video files to audio only versions on a vps to save download speeds if anyone is interested: http://gfcnetworks.org/ground/software/shell_scripts/mpegcvt.sh
[13:43] <artok> yeah Kylie Minogue just released album on c casette =)
[13:43] <chris_99> https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/vaporwave-floppy-disk-trend-666085/
[13:43] <chris_99> i want one of thoe
[13:43] <chris_99> *those heh
[13:43] <DJDan> brianx: they were different questions... if theres no SPI Slave (or not easy to do without modifying the kernel space), assuming that a GPIO standard pin can emulate SPI it should be in theory possible, but if the clock speed isnt fast enough fairenough
[13:43] * JohnJay (26780a63@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:43] <brianx> eek gordonDrogon, cassettes were the worst!
[13:43] * mike_t (~mike_t@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[13:44] <brianx> no DJDan, it is not possible except at very low bit rate.
[13:44] <artok> but for dj'ing it's vinyl or computer for me
[13:44] <artok> I do control the software using CDJ's but also I have midi controllers
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[13:45] <DJDan> artok: i have cdj 200, 350, 400, 1000mk3, reloop rmp4, as well as many midi controllers (eg; DDJ1000), then theres the DJM900 Nexus 2, DJM800 etc...
[13:45] <DJDan> software wise... Virtual DJ mainly..but rekordbox,serato (sl4), traktor etc....
[13:45] <brianx> DJDan: you are trying to spy on an existing spi connection, you do not have control over the clock which means you cannot control bit rate and gpio bit bang only works when you control the clock.
[13:46] <DJDan> oh ok
[13:47] <brianx> use a tool designed for spying on spi connections. the bus pirate.
[13:48] <DJDan> brianx: yeah the bus pirate is like $40 AUD... im about to get a touchscreen STM for about $80 which will work with a SPI Shifter and the CDJ, but was attempting with the RPI
[13:48] <brianx> the pi cannot do this. no matter what the cost.
[13:49] <brianx> i have no clue what an spi shifter is. i've never heard of such a thing.
[13:49] <DJDan> i dont really know myself.. it changes the voltages for the STM or something..
[13:50] <brianx> a level shifter.
[13:50] <artok> logic level shifter
[13:51] <brianx> if your spi is 5v and you wish to use an stm32 which is 3.3v, then a level shifter is needed for all lines. that isn't called an "spi shifter".
[13:52] <DJDan> ok logic level shifter
[13:53] <DJDan> https://github.com/djgreeb/CDJ-1000mk3_new_life_project/blob/master/CDJ-1000mk3%20new%20life%20self%20assembly%20manual.pdf .. this is the mod im eventually doing... was just hoping in the meantime i could read something with my rpi since i have that.. but obviously without kernel rewritten (and even then probably wont work).. i now realise
[13:53] <brianx> the pi is also not 5v and needs the same logic level shifter.
[13:53] <mfa298> 11:34 < mfa298> from the first pdf it seems to suggest the cdjs signals are 5v - which will break your pi if you don't have a suitable level shifter
[13:54] <brianx> no, you cannot do that project with a pi. the pi is not an equivalent.
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[13:56] <mfa298> brianx: there's the suggestion that pigpio might be able to sample the spi data (like a slow LA) but I suspect the CDJ spi bus is running to fast for that to work
[13:57] <brianx> mfa298: agreed. at one point 500khz was noted, but i have no idea where that came from.
[13:57] * tvm (~tvm@router-sever1-nat-m.pilsfree.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[13:58] <mfa298> i suggested it needed to be under 100KHz based on the 5uS resolution we think pigpio might manage. I wouldn't be surprised if the cdj spi is much faster than that.
[13:58] * ejr (~no@80-108-134-69.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[13:58] <brianx> we have a user who can't tell the difference between a microcontroller and a pi after 2 days, they would not be able to decode spi from a software LA.
[13:59] <DJDan> "even if it does not break rpi, the Schottky protection diodes that are installed in ARM on Rpi will not allow the signal to rise above 3.3v, which can affect the operation of the CDJ, this level may not be enough for the normal operation of the main assy <-> display controller"
[14:00] <brianx> enjoy your magic smoke. connecting 5v out to 3.3v in will eventually release it.
[14:01] <brianx> get a bus pirate DJDan. or use the exact parts shown in the project you are duplicating.
[14:02] <DJDan> so i need a logic level shifter for the RPI
[14:03] <DJDan> to fix the voltages
[14:03] <mfa298> DJDan: where are you hearing that from? The Pi doesn't put any protection on the gpio pins. If you put 5v on them then the pi will die (sometimes fatally, sometimes just some parts on the soc will fail first)
[14:03] <DJDan> mfa298: some guy who only knows about STM..
[14:03] <brianx> which does NOT fix the speed problem DJDan.
[14:05] <DJDan> true
[14:05] <brianx> so that means you have spammed at least 5 channels with this garbage.
[14:05] <brianx> the 4 i've seen plus at least one stm32 channel.
[14:06] <mfa298> DJDan: stop listening to the guy that only knows about STM stuff when dealing with the Pi. You've had a load of Pi people telling you the same few things for well over a day now maybe listen to us for the Pi stuff!
[14:06] <brianx> the arduino people said the same things too.
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[14:10] <DJDan> i undertand. i thought since the SPI had a master and slave option.. that maybe it could just be slave only.. surely someone has rewritten the kernel to allow Slave SPI. I will just wait for the STM then, as it seems the SPI on the RPI is very limited
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[14:15] <brianx> good idea. wait for the stm32 board and make sure it's the exact make, model, and version specified in the project you are duplicating.
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[14:41] <jsqkldhf> hi
[14:41] <jsqkldhf> Win32DiskImager is cool on Win except 1) we have to manually extract zip or rar and then flash it
[14:41] <jsqkldhf> 2) it's not a command line tool
[14:42] * piesquared (~piesquare@209-133-216-186.static.hvvc.us) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:42] <jsqkldhf> is there a Win tool that can work command line and can extract automatically without having to do it manually?
[14:42] <jsqkldhf> something like: win32diskimager image.iso.zip e:\
[14:43] <BurtyB> etcher cli?
[14:43] <Khaytsus> I've never seen an iso zipped or rarred... and... dd maybe?
[14:44] * Khaytsus shrugs
[14:44] <jsqkldhf> Khaytsus: iso zipped is sometimes 10 times smaller ;)
[14:44] <Khaytsus> I guess they do zip the iso from the pi page. Never noticed that.
[14:45] <Khaytsus> anyway... Is this something you do a dozen times a day or once every few months, max
[14:45] <jsqkldhf> I manage a distrib, so I have many versions of images
[14:46] <jsqkldhf> and some days I need to do this a lot
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[15:33] <pwillard> Etcher is quite a nice alternative
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[15:47] <chris_99> not necesarily a brilliant solution but you could install msys2 ;) and use zip from that
[15:50] <BurtyB> yup, the only issue I had with etcher was needing to alter the win10 settings to allow it to access mapped drives
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[15:50] <chris_99> not 'erd of etcher before
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[15:53] <BurtyB> chris_99, it's what's in the install docs these days
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[15:56] <chris_99> im trying to work out what it is that resin.io is
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[16:18] <BurtyB> chris_99, it looks like IoT, containers... close window
[16:20] <chris_99> Heh
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[16:35] <juril> hi.. got a link for setting up an headless pi zero w ?
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[17:03] <gordonDrogon> raspberrypi.org has it all.
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[22:07] <streuner> I want to host Tor hidden services, store files on Raspberry Pi and use Raspberry Pi as pentesting station. Is encryption on Raspberry Pi using LUKS with AES algorithm a good idea?
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[22:09] <Habbie> streuner, i can think of many more specific questions (none of which i have the answer to) - is your question about security? performance?
[22:10] <streuner> i want to have good performance and good security
[22:10] <brianx> o/ Habbie
[22:10] <Habbie> hi brianx
[22:10] * louisdk (~louisdk@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:13] <brianx> Habbie: i got founder over in #mysensors. been trying to build it up (unsuccessfully so far.)
[22:13] <Habbie> aha
[22:13] <Habbie> i'm afraid i do not have the relevant context in my head
[22:14] <brianx> we chatted about either mysensors or node red at one point a few months back. not sure which.
[22:15] <Habbie> that sounds entirely feasible :)
[22:15] <brianx> i'm using both for home automation. pretty happy with the results so far.
[22:16] <Habbie> cool
[22:18] <brianx> i still need to find a certified listed dimmer and switched in wall outlet that i can control locally without internet access. what i'm doing right now isn't legal to put in the walls here.
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[22:18] <Habbie> brianx, something from sonoff perhaps?
[22:19] * Bambus (~Bambus@howell.uberspace.de) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.2)
[22:20] <brianx> yeah, something like that but sonoff isn't legal to put in the walls in the us. the certification they have is not approved by one of the listed labs approved for NEC.
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[22:20] <Habbie> right
[22:21] <Habbie> IKEA then?
[22:21] * Ceber (~cerberus@dslb-002-203-044-097.002.203.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[22:21] <Habbie> more like on wall unless you're creative, but it comes close
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[22:23] <brianx> possibly. i should look there. i've tried home depot but and menards and amazon. they have ones that go up to 15A, but that's not enough for common things like kitchen appliances, portable space heaters, and hair dryers. there was one that could do 15A switched on one outlet and 20A unswitched on the 2nd outlet. it wouldn't let me switch a space heater except on low but at least one could be put on
[22:23] <brianx> the unswitched.
[22:23] <Habbie> oh i focused on the dimmer bit
[22:23] <Habbie> those rarely need to provide 15A
[22:24] <brianx> yeah, the dimmer should be easier.
[22:24] <Habbie> also i get confused when people say 20A but you're on 115V, right?
[22:24] <brianx> i have a 60A and a 2A design so far.
[22:24] <brianx> not listed, so not legal.
[22:24] <brianx> yeah, this is 115V
[22:25] * Bambus (~Bambus@howell.uberspace.de) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.2)
[22:25] <brianx> sonoff is just perfect for 220 in EU because it's approved there.
[22:25] <Habbie> ack
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[22:26] <brianx> and 10A 220v is enough for a typical space heater too.
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[22:31] <Habbie> brianx, indeed
[22:32] <Habbie> brianx, although we do not have a habit of doing these things electrically
[22:32] <Habbie> brianx, but, that is shifting
[22:32] * waveform (~waveform@waveform.plus.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:34] <brianx> it's not common here either. people use the $60 phillips hue bulbs occasionally but at that price it's not practical to do more than a couple.
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[22:39] <Habbie> no, indeed
[22:39] <Habbie> that's why ikea is interesting
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[22:42] <brianx> it's the difference between EU and US currents that's hard. i really would want at least 40A rating so as to have some engineering margin. my illegal design is 60A.
[22:42] * DammitJim (~DammitJim@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:43] <Habbie> because a lot of neat stuff you can buy will happily switch 115V (why would it care) but is rated for 10-20A?
[22:43] <brianx> 15A is the most i've seen so far in a legal to install product.
[22:44] <Habbie> right
[22:44] <Habbie> which we would be totally happy with over here
[22:44] <brianx> but outlets are 20A standard here, so many devices are made to use it all.
[22:44] <Habbie> 'madness'
[22:44] <Habbie> i think i have -one- device above 10A
[22:45] <brianx> 10A there is the same power as 20A here.
[22:45] <Habbie> yes
[22:45] <brianx> i know i don't have anything over 2400 watts
[22:46] <Habbie> yeah, my fuses(?) are 16A, i.e. ~3600W
[22:46] <brianx> my breakers are 20A, but you can fudge that a little with resistance only devices like a fanless space heater.
[22:47] <Habbie> right
[22:47] * Khaytsus puts pennys in his breakers
[22:47] <brianx> i've heard of pennies in a fuse holder, but never in a breaker. what does a penny in a breaker do?
[22:47] * louisdk (~louisdk@ Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[22:48] <Khaytsus> brianx: I was kidding heh.. and yeah, I screwed up the joke
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[22:48] <brianx> lol
[22:48] * richardpotthoff (~richardpo@c-76-117-127-221.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:48] <Khaytsus> brianx: I remember when I was a kid I was in a really old farm house and their breaker box was just out in the open, no door, not in a closet. and on the bottom of it where it was recessed in there were random screw-in breakers, and a pile of pennies
[22:49] * tuxiano (~tuxiano@2a02:8070:89d4:aa00:c18b:c8ba:26e5:416a) Quit (Quit: tuxiano)
[22:49] <Khaytsus> So I was introduced to kludge jobs that could kill you early on in life
[22:49] <brianx> ouch. that sounds scary.
[22:49] <Khaytsus> Screw in FUSES
[22:49] <Khaytsus> Damnit. Fuses.
[22:49] <mfa298> not for actual use https://us.v-cdn.net/6024911/uploads/attachments/15461/7038.jpg
[22:49] <brianx> i've rewired a breaker box. upping the main by 25%
[22:50] <brianx> lol @#3 mfa298
[22:50] <Habbie> 16amp on a laughing cow?
[22:51] <mfa298> heh the one with audio alert :)
[22:51] <Habbie> yes that's what i figured was #3
[22:51] <Habbie> but the cow rating baffles me
[22:51] <brianx> yeah, audiovisual alert is #3
[22:51] <brianx> i take it laughing cow is some sort of candy or chocolate
[22:51] <Habbie> it is snack cheese
[22:52] <brianx> ahh
[22:52] <Habbie> la vache qui rit, for your googling pleasure
[22:52] <Habbie> french for 'the cow that laughs' or 'the laughing cow'
[22:52] <brianx> i think we may have that here now.
[22:52] <Habbie> US? yes
[22:52] <Khaytsus> Audio/visual alert. I'd say.
[22:53] <Khaytsus> So I guess the foil on the cheese wrapper blows at 16a heh
[22:53] <brianx> not something on my shopping list.
[22:53] <Habbie> Khaytsus, i highly doubt it
[22:53] <Habbie> brianx, my housemates eat the weirdest things ;)
[22:53] <brianx> 16A does sound about right for that much foil.
[22:53] <Habbie> brianx, the same company makes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babybel
[22:53] * Johnjay (26780a63@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:53] <Habbie> brianx, which i am expected to buy occasionally
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[22:54] <Habbie> brianx, basically pacman cheese
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[22:54] <brianx> Babybel is definitely here.
[22:54] <Habbie> ah
[22:54] <mfa298> probably best not to test any of those replacements out.
[22:55] <mfa298> although I've heard stories of people wrapping fuses in foil over here (UK where we have a fuse in every plug)
[22:55] <Habbie> ah yes
[22:55] <Habbie> the UK plugs
[22:55] <brianx> again, not something on my shopping list. i live about 10 miles from the wisconsin border, we don't buy cheese not made in wisconsin here.
[22:55] <Habbie> only people who haven't been to the UK think Lego is the worst thing to step on
[22:55] * chibby0ne (~chibby0ne@2001:a61:1715:c901:b81f:b89:8489:5f22) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:56] * Sigfrid (~Sigfrid@ Quit (Quit: Saliendo)
[22:56] <mfa298> cutoffs from stranded wire can be a pain to step on if they go into the skin, like really small hard to spot splinters
[22:57] <brianx> ok, off to see mission impossible 6. it would be nice to see you mfa298 and Habbie in #mysensors if you have any interest. you too Khaytsus.
[22:57] <Habbie> yes
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[22:57] <Habbie> mfa298, yes
[22:57] <Habbie> brianx, perhaps! enjoy the movie
[22:57] <brianx> thanks! o/
[22:58] <mfa298> the trick yo uk plugs is to leave them plugged in and us the switch to turn the power off. you dont step on them then
[22:58] <Habbie> hehe
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[23:17] <ali1234> shiftplusone: noobs is built from buildroot yes?
[23:18] <ali1234> how do you deal with building two kernels?
[23:20] * nibble_zero (~nibble_ze@ Quit (Quit: nibble_zero)
[23:20] <ali1234> hmm... i see there is a script that makes buildroot build it twice
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[23:39] * Megaf is now known as MrFeline
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These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.