#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2018-10-20

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[2:53] <Smithe> What of these options set on kernel have the biggest probability of creating problems with the USB interface and make it go dumb? (i.e. not recognizing the ethernet adapter and other devices) https://paste.debian.net/hidden/60c18a3d/
[2:55] <uriahheep> Smeef: around?
[2:56] <Smeef> Maybe...
[2:56] <uriahheep> Smeef: you said you had the hardware to test my work right?
[2:57] <uriahheep> ...want to?
[2:57] * Cbast (~sfrigon@107.190.38.187) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:57] <Smeef> uriahheep, I don't recall, one of us is probably confused
[2:58] <uriahheep> perhaps
[2:58] <uriahheep> sorry
[2:58] <Smeef> What is your work?
[2:58] <uriahheep> might have been a different nick
[2:58] * Smithe (~Smithe@gateway/tor-sasl/smithe) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:58] <uriahheep> just raspberry pi opencl rtl-sdr stuff
[2:58] <Smeef> Oh, right, we were discussing that last night
[2:58] <uriahheep> yeah
[2:59] <uriahheep> want me to pm you the link?
[2:59] <Smeef> Must have been someone else who volunteered the hardware, though.
[2:59] <Smeef> Sure
[2:59] <uriahheep> ah ok
[3:00] * Devils69Advocate (~Devils69A@unaffiliated/devils69advocate) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:00] <uriahheep> Smeef: it's almost useless right now
[3:01] <uriahheep> but feel free to try on a rpi3b
[3:02] <Smeef> I was looking for a potential Pi-based SDR program a while ago, I'll check this out, will it work with a regular Pi 3, or does it need something that's only on the 3B?
[3:02] <Smeef> Oh, wait, my mistake
[3:03] <uriahheep> the drivers and firmware are for 3b
[3:03] <Smeef> I confused the B with the B+
[3:03] <uriahheep> ah
[3:04] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[3:04] <Smeef> I'll have to get back to you though, I don't have access to my Pi 3 right now, and probably won't until Sunday or Monday
[3:05] <uriahheep> ah ok no problem
[3:05] <uriahheep> more than one person has told me this same thing :) it's the weekend after all
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[3:46] <xpbar> heyo everyone - looking at getting a pi, any tips for a newcomer? I'm looking to install arch and possibly run some emulators / android box style setup, if possible
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[3:54] <yLwHaTT> xpbar: use PINN
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[4:01] <larsks> xpbar: If your primary goal is emulators, have you considered Retropie (https://retropie.org.uk/)?
[4:12] <yLwHaTT> PINN is a really good installer for all of that
[4:12] <yLwHaTT> its NOOBS on steroids
[4:14] <uriah> neat
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[4:18] <yLwHaTT> yeah
[4:22] <uriah> how many distros does it offer?
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[5:05] <iodev> okay, so here's what I need
[5:05] <iodev> something like dataplicity
[5:06] <iodev> but that'll allow me to use a custom domain
[5:06] <larsks> iodev: https://tmate.io/, maybe
[5:06] * eblip (~eblip@unaffiliated/eblip) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[5:07] * eb0t (~eblip@unaffiliated/eblip) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[5:07] <iodev> larsks: I need HTTP end point
[5:07] <larsks> Ah, never mind, then.
[5:07] <iodev> with custom domain (I want to run a website on the pi)
[5:08] <iodev> but I can't port forward
[5:09] <iodev> my ISP won't allow it, they keep resetting my router settings and so on! :D
[5:09] <CoJaBo> Get your own router?
[5:10] <iodev> I have my own router
[5:10] <larsks> You could grab a cheap vps (like from digitalocean) and use that as a proxy (raspberry pi makes outbound connection to the vps and sets up reverse port forwarding e.g. over an ssh channel)
[5:10] <iodev> but that's connected to their modem
[5:10] <CoJaBo> then you should be able to forward
[5:10] <iodev> really, but wouldn't I have to do the settings on both devices?
[5:11] <CoJaBo> what other device?
[5:11] <iodev> I have a Huawei Home Gateway (their modem)
[5:11] <iodev> (it's also a crappy router)
[5:11] <iodev> and my WRT54GL
[5:11] <CoJaBo> you have to replace that with your own
[5:11] <CoJaBo> I usually use a standalone modem + router
[5:12] <iodev> both are routers
[5:12] <iodev> WAN IP is on the Huawei, and my Linksys has a WAN IP of 192.168.1.x and the Linksys net is 10.0.0.0/24
[5:13] <iodev> so I would have to port forward from WAN -> First router -> Second Router -> PI
[5:13] <CoJaBo> You get rid of the Huawei and replace it with a modem or combo unit
[5:13] <iodev> unless UPnP
[5:14] <iodev> CoJaBo: then I'd be on the same network with everybody else in the house
[5:15] <iodev> that'd be insecure, you see, everybody else is using the Huawei, and I have the Linksys to isolate my secure network :D
[5:15] <iodev> (I know it sounds crazy, but that's the way it is)
[5:16] <CoJaBo> iodev: Vlans, or get another router. It just has to be one that's you's, do you can configure it
[5:17] * Smithe (~Smithe@gateway/tor-sasl/smithe) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:17] <iodev> CoJaBo: trust me I tried
[5:17] <iodev> but then the modem the ISP gave me brake down
[5:18] <iodev> and I called them and they asked "Changed any settings?"
[5:18] <iodev> "I knew what I was doing!"
[5:18] <iodev> "FINE! We'll replace our router" (it's a piece of junk that breaks randomly)
[5:19] <iodev> and then they sent over some guy that knows 0% of networking to tell me how I broke the router by changing the password on the web interface :D
[5:19] <iodev> It's very sensitive :D
[5:19] <iodev> CoJaBo: that is my ISP ...
[5:19] <CoJaBo> iodev: Unplug their router. Plug in your own. Activate your own with the service.
[5:20] <CoJaBo> Most of the local ISPs here have techs that can't even operate computers
[5:21] <iodev> CoJaBo: they won't let you do that
[5:21] * vaft (~vaft@cpe-24-211-192-145.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:21] <iodev> plus my router has no xDSL modem
[5:21] <CoJaBo> iodev: Yes you'd need a standalone modem
[5:21] <iodev> I'd need a router with a RJ 11 port to do that
[5:22] <CoJaBo> I personally don't like the combo units. Firmware on them always sucks.
[5:22] <iodev> yes
[5:23] <iodev> actually I would have moved to another ISP, but my dad likes it, it's 2$ cheaper :D
[5:23] <iodev> so we stick with 60 Mbps, instead of 1000 Mbps. Because 60 is enough, and 2$ cheaper
[5:23] * iodev facepalms
[5:25] <iodev> well, I'm not too enthusiast to port forward either
[5:25] <iodev> because it's a security risk
[5:25] <iodev> what if the firmware of the router has a problem and someone from outside can access more than 80, 443/tcp
[5:25] * vaft (~vaft@cpe-24-211-192-145.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:26] <CoJaBo> iodev: Port forewarning doesn't increase that risk
[5:27] <CoJaBo> Routers are stupidly insecure, you need a local firewall regardless. Luckily, every OS has one nowadays
[5:27] * lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPE64777d632383-CM64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[5:32] <iodev> CoJaBo: yes, my arch has ufw installed
[5:33] <iodev> leaving the port forwarding problems beside, there is the fact that I do not have a static IP to tackle
[5:33] <CoJaBo> Dyndns services are usually free
[5:34] * digin4 (~digin4@unaffiliated/digin4) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:34] <iodev> if I get a VPS to reverse tunnel my Pi
[5:34] <iodev> then I solved nothing
[5:34] * Dimik (~Dimik@ool-2f1499e1.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[5:34] <CoJaBo> lol
[5:34] <iodev> I could just run the website on the VPS
[5:34] <iodev> and be done with it
[5:35] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@p579A266B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[5:35] <digin4> is there a terminal program to monitor CPU temperature ?
[5:35] <CoJaBo> Dedicated tunneling services aren't a lot cheaper than void
[5:35] <CoJaBo> VPS*
[5:35] * lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPE64777d632383-CM64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: Left...)
[5:36] <iodev> unless https://www.scaleway.com/virtual-cloud-servers/#anchor_starter
[5:36] <iodev> I think I'll just pick the ARM one :D
[5:36] <CoJaBo> Given data caps, the VPS is also a better value. So pert forwarding is still usually the best lol
[5:43] * terminalator (terminalat@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/terminalator) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[5:46] <iodev> CoJaBo: 2 Euros/month is coins
[5:46] <iodev> :D
[5:46] <iodev> I don't mind
[5:47] <iodev> I need a site for my Google Play developer account
[5:48] <iodev> LOOOOOL! model name : Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU C3955 @ 2.10GHz
[5:48] <iodev> ^ my VPS is running on an Atom
[5:48] <iodev> :D
[5:49] <iodev> Network is pretty fast though, it'll do well as a .NET Core website server
[5:49] <CoJaBo> iodev: You can get a VPS for $2/mo USD
[5:49] <iodev> from where
[5:50] <iodev> and do they have 3D secure payments, Scaleway did :D
[5:50] <iodev> plus, I want the server in europe, USA is too much latency
[5:50] <iodev> it's in Amsterdam right now
[5:50] <CoJaBo> Some accept Bitcoin too :P
[5:51] <digin4> is 60c CPU temp normal on raspberry pi 3 b+?
[5:51] <CoJaBo> not that that's particularly practical for tiny payments these days rofl
[5:51] <iodev> digin4: stop worrying, won't explode :D
[5:51] <friendofafriend> digin4: vcgencmd measure_temp
[5:51] <digin4> 8D
[5:53] <friendofafriend> Yes, 60C is pretty normal for a Pi under some load. It really depends on the ambient temperature and the workload.
[5:53] <digin4> ok thanks
[5:53] <friendofafriend> Very welcome, digin4. Good luck.
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[6:07] <iodev> CoJaBo: works great! a tiny VPS just perfect for my tiny site
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[6:36] <iodev> well, one thing is certain. I am never buying an official case ever again. The pibow is much better, the acrylic is see-through and because the portion where the CPU is cut out, it can radiate heat effectively
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[6:54] <Curi0_> i have an fm transmitter software supporting piping on my raspberry pi is there any way i can stream my laptop's sound to it ?
[6:55] <Curi0_> i have both linux and windows on my laptop
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[7:00] <stiv> sounds like a use case for pulseaudio. getting it working is left as an exercise for the reader.
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[10:23] <quackeed> I've just flashed Raspbian to a Zero W, but how do I enable ssh on a headless setup? I tried mounting the 2 partitions and created a file on the second partition under /boot/ but it still doesnt work.
[10:23] <quackeed> I also tried sudo touch ssh on the first partition but no file was created
[10:23] <Habbie> the ssh file goes on the first partition
[10:24] <quackeed> Yeah, thats what I read
[10:25] <quackeed> the partition with bcm....dtb and such?
[10:25] <Habbie> yes
[10:25] <iodev> quackeed: yes, touch ssh
[10:25] <iodev> if on linux
[10:26] <quackeed> nothing happens when I do sudo touch ssh
[10:26] <quackeed> no new file with ls
[10:27] <Habbie> that makes no sense, sorry
[10:27] * vahanoi (~vahanoi@185.230.102.75) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:27] <quackeed> mounted it with -o uid=pi,gid=pi
[10:27] <Habbie> then why sudo?
[10:28] <quackeed> Cause I'm following guides online :)
[10:28] <Habbie> what guide?
[10:28] <quackeed> Cant find it atm
[10:28] <Habbie> ok..
[10:29] <quackeed> also did chown -R pi:pi /media/usb
[10:29] <Habbie> uhm
[10:29] <Habbie> what was mounted there?
[10:29] <quackeed> the first partition
[10:29] <Habbie> ok, then it doesn't do anything
[10:29] <quackeed> when I try the same command again it says operation not allowed
[10:29] <Habbie> correct
[10:30] <quackeed> if I do touch ssh it says no permission
[10:30] <Habbie> ah
[10:30] <quackeed> sudo touch ssh gives no error
[10:31] <quackeed> ls shows like 20 files, no ssh
[10:31] <Habbie> and 'ls ssh'?
[10:31] <quackeed> ssh showed up...
[10:31] <Habbie> ls | grep ssh
[10:32] <quackeed> ls | grep ssh showed nothing
[10:32] <Habbie> nothing about this makes sense
[10:33] <quackeed> cat ssh returns nothing but cat ssss says no such file...
[10:33] <quackeed> so it looks like theres a hidden ssh there :p
[10:33] <Habbie> it's not hidde
[10:33] <Habbie> n
[10:33] <Habbie> it's empty
[10:33] <Habbie> touch makes an empty file; hence, cat shows nothing
[10:33] <quackeed> yeah, I mean since its not showing in the ls
[10:34] * Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@541A8CEB.cm-5-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[10:34] <quackeed> when I now did sudo touch test it shows in ls
[10:34] <quackeed> I think thats what happened the last time too.. I then did umount and tried booting it up
[10:35] <quackeed> but ssh didnt work so I unplugged the pi, moved sd card and mounted it on a different pi
[10:36] <quackeed> sudo rm ssh says no such file... hehe
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[10:40] <quackeed> Hmm.. one place it said: "Note that the ssh file will be deleted after successful enable / boot."
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[10:44] <quackeed> Trying a different psu
[10:45] <quackeed> even though I see the pi on the wlan and can ping it
[10:48] <Habbie> yes, the ssh file disappears - but when it does, it has does its job
[10:49] <Habbie> *has done
[10:49] <quackeed> grr... connection refused
[10:53] <quackeed> Other suggestions?
[10:53] * riccardo17_f (2577174a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.119.23.74) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:53] <quackeed> I'm doing ssh pi@ipadress
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[11:01] <quackeed> Is there a way I can see in the filesystem if ssh is enabled?
[11:02] <Lartza> systemctl status sshd?
[11:02] <Lartza> Should say "Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/sshd.service; enabled; vendor preset: disabled)" and also hopefully show as active (running)
[11:02] <quackeed> says sshd.service could not be found
[11:03] <Lartza> uhhhh
[11:03] <Lartza> It's just ssh
[11:03] <Lartza> (on Debian and Raspbian)
[11:04] <Lartza> Thouch actually, it does not necessarily show as active
[11:04] <Lartza> *Though
[11:04] <quackeed> that works, but I'm sshing into a pi already
[11:04] <quackeed> so I'm wondering if I can find out if ssh is enabled on the mounted sd card
[11:05] <gordonDrogon> do you mean sshd ?
[11:05] <Lartza> There should be a symlink in /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/
[11:05] <Lartza> for ssh.socket or ssh.service
[11:05] <Lartza> Not sure which one gets activated by raspbian
[11:06] <gordonDrogon> if you can ssh into a Pi then sshd is running...
[11:06] <Lartza> different pi I assume :P
[11:06] <quackeed> yes
[11:06] <gordonDrogon> ah :)
[11:06] <quackeed> Im sshing into a pi 3b+ which has the raspbian image for my zero mounted
[11:07] <quackeed> I can't get ssh to work on that mounted sd card with raspbian
[11:07] <gordonDrogon> ok. In the days o fsysv init, I could tell you, but systemd? I've no idea.
[11:08] <gordonDrogon> how about you create the ssh file in the first partition and boot it again..
[11:08] <Lartza> See above :P symlinks
[11:08] <Lartza> That's what systemd does
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[11:08] <quackeed> in /media/usb2/etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants there is no ssh.socket or ssh.service
[11:08] <quackeed> only a sshswitch.service
[11:09] <Lartza> That's the service that enables ssh, hmm
[11:09] <Lartza> "update-rc.d ssh enable" ...
[11:09] <Lartza> No ide what that does
[11:09] <Lartza> *idea
[11:09] <quackeed> I've added both ssh and ssh.txt (a different time) to the first partition (I read it also supported .txt on newer builds)
[11:09] <Lartza> It does
[11:10] <quackeed> and both were removed after a boot
[11:10] <quackeed> maybe I should just run etcher again and set up wifi and ssh again
[11:11] <quackeed> using 2018-10-09 raspian strech
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[11:13] <gordonDrogon> no way you can get a screen/keyboard to it?
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[11:15] <seek^126> hey guys, i've moved to a new flat with an existing network. is it possible to use my old pivpn install in this new network? is it possible to reconfigure or do i have to install it again?
[11:15] <gordonDrogon> who knows. only you can tell ...
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[11:22] <quackeed> gordonDrogon: dont have mini hdmi adapter I think
[11:22] <quackeed> which reminds me that I should order one
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[11:45] <riccardo17_f> Hello everyone, I'm trying to set up I2C on my raspberry pi. The way i understand it the command i2cdetect -y 1 should output something at address 60 but in my case it's not. Does anyone know what the problem might be?
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[11:46] <riccardo17_f> I'm on a raspberry pi 3, I2c is enabled and i have an ATMega328P connected on the SDA/SCL pins.
[11:48] <gordonDrogon> riccardo17_f, firstly, be aware that the Pi is 3.3v and Arduino is 5v
[11:48] * nswebfrog (~nswebfrog@67.216.203.198.16clouds.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:48] <gordonDrogon> it can work, but you must make sure that you turn off the internal pull-ups on the Arduino side.
[11:48] <gordonDrogon> also make sure you connected the 0v/gnd's together.
[11:49] <gordonDrogon> I'd also suggest using serial - just plug the arduino into a Pi USB socket - power the arduino and you get a free serial interface which is much faster and more reliable and easier to use than I2C.
[11:49] <gordonDrogon> but if you persist with I2C then look up clock stretching and ... good luck.
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[11:50] <riccardo17_f> Thank you for your advice, i'll implement it and try again. I'm not using an arduino though, straight ATMega328PU IC
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[11:54] <gordonDrogon> same issues : 5v vs. 3.3v
[11:54] <gordonDrogon> and the standard arduino wire library causes clock stretching.
[11:55] <gordonDrogon> I'd still try to use serial if possible - then you can use the Pi to program it too
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[12:41] <Fulgen> hm, what's the reasons for the Pi using 3.3V for the GPIOs?
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[13:07] <mfa298> Fulgen: that's the voltage the SoC runs at (same with most other SoCs)
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[13:08] <Fulgen> ah
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[14:40] <Bluefoxicy> does anybody know how to transmit/receive data via LED or 520nm laser diode?
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[14:42] <Bluefoxicy> I'm particularly interested in muxing the RS232 TX line to 520nm, then decoding that on the other end, using 30%-50% Reed-Solomon or similar
[14:42] <Habbie> (there's no rs232 on a pi)
[14:43] <Bluefoxicy> there are pins that are supposed to be ready to connect to an RS-232 header and function as serial o.o
[14:43] <Habbie> no..
[14:43] <Habbie> there are serial pins but they are TTL, not rs232
[14:44] <Bluefoxicy> ah ok
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[14:44] <Bluefoxicy> I'm trying to build a one-way network
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[14:44] <Bluefoxicy> basically I have things that must remain disconnected from any public network until a specific point in time, but also want to publish the logs from a log collector in real-time to the internet.
[14:45] <Habbie> ok
[14:45] <Habbie> so connect serial one way
[14:45] <Habbie> and not the other
[14:47] <iodev> hi everyone
[14:47] <Bluefoxicy> Habbie: it also has to be visibly one-way demonstrated to people without technical expertise, and the attacker may be an official operating to wire these things together.
[14:48] <Habbie> Bluefoxicy, why?
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> It is unclear that it is a one-way LASER link.
[14:48] <Bluefoxicy> Lasers only send; if there's no laser on the other end, it can't send back :P
[14:48] <Bluefoxicy> All electrical conductors can carry electrons in both directions
[14:49] <Bluefoxicy> despite the existence of directional HDMI and Ethernet cables on Amazon
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> That assumes you trust the person making the hardware.
[14:49] <Bluefoxicy> I trust the laws of physics.
[14:49] <Bluefoxicy> something without a light-emitting source can't send light pulses.
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> It can if it has a concealed light source.
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> Or wifi.
[14:50] <Habbie> again, Bluefoxicy - why?
[14:50] <Bluefoxicy> Electromagnetic cage and wifi detection.
[14:51] <Bluefoxicy> Habbie: So that if somebody enters a voting machine during voting, it not only raises immediate visible alarms, but causes log anomalies that can't be hidden by also tampering with the logs, since they're hitting the public in real-time.
[14:51] <Habbie> ah
[14:51] <mlelstv> the electromagnetic cage would either be incomplete or block light too
[14:51] <Habbie> i have a very simple answer for you
[14:51] <Habbie> don't build voting machines
[14:51] <Habbie> please stop
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[14:52] <Bluefoxicy> mlelstv: doesn't work that way. If a faraday cage has openings of w/2 for a bandwidth of w, it blocks all EMR in that bandwidth or lower; the usual opening size is w/10 or smaller
[14:52] <Bluefoxicy> wifi operates in microwave, which is below-visible.
[14:53] <mlelstv> we need voting machines, interfering with elections is just too boring.
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[14:53] <Bluefoxicy> Habbie: people are already building voting machines. These voting machines have anti-virus software, cell phone modems to report votes in real-time during voting, and software "certified" by a small group of people under NDA and occasionally updated remotely over the Internet the night before the election.
[14:53] * iodev (iodev@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/iodev) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[14:53] <Bluefoxicy> these voting machines are a ludicrous fucking nightmare.
[14:54] <Habbie> Bluefoxicy, yes. these people should also stop building voting machines
[14:54] <Habbie> (also, please mind the language)
[14:54] <Bluefoxicy> None of these people had a threat model going in
[14:54] <gordonDrogon> Bluefoxicy, try to keep it family friendly please.
[14:54] <mlelstv> all voting machines are a ludicrous fucking nightmare :) That's what they are supposed to be.
[14:54] <Habbie> mlelstv, also please mind your language
[14:54] * jaziz (~jaziz@unaffiliated/jaziz) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmPtfy9P714
[14:54] <gordonDrogon> however from what I've seen, voting machines are somewhat sub-optimal.
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> Florida To Experiment With New 600-Lever Voting Machine
[14:54] <Habbie> onion <3
[14:54] <Bluefoxicy> mlelstv: they always have been. At one point we used paper ballot boxes, and they would tend to disappear and reappear and go out of sight "in secure transportation and storage"
[14:54] <Bluefoxicy> and we still do that.
[14:55] <Bluefoxicy> the very fact that we have recounts should give people pause
[14:55] <mlelstv> you cannot recount bits from a voting machine
[14:55] <mlelstv> you cannot even count
[14:55] <mlelstv> I mean you: the voter.
[14:56] <mlelstv> so what purpose would a voting machine have?
[14:56] <Bluefoxicy> No, they recount paper ballots and find that, of 101,000 ballots originally counted, they only have 97,000 in the recount, but they're sure it's alright.
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[14:56] <mlelstv> and with a voting machine you cannot recount.
[14:57] <mlelstv> makes it sure that the result is rigged, isn't it? :)
[14:57] <gordonDrogon> the recent hack, releasing 30 million peoples details including who they voted for should be a warning to not continue with voting machines IMO.
[14:57] <Bluefoxicy> mlelstv: a voting machine's purpose is to ensure that integrity can be verified and re-inspected from the point of voting until forever, by anyone, so that any tampering or erroneous behavior is discoverable and not hideable.
[14:57] <Habbie> Bluefoxicy, but a machine cannot provide that.
[14:57] <mlelstv> I am very sure that almost noone could verify the result of a voting machine, even when it works perfectly.
[14:58] <Bluefoxicy> Habbie: a machine can provide that better than a human. Nothing can provide that, however, without public observation during the voting day. I can only narrow the attack window that far.
[14:58] <Habbie> Bluefoxicy, no.. it can't
[14:58] <gordonDrogon> the UK seems to manage OK with paper votes, still.
[14:58] <Habbie> Bluefoxicy, well, it can, but at the cost of various things that are equally important, like voter privacy
[14:58] <Bluefoxicy> gordonDrogon: within bounds.
[14:58] <Habbie> gordonDrogon, .nl got rid of the machines i'm very happy to say
[14:58] <gordonDrogon> it works.
[14:58] <Bluefoxicy> Habbie: publicizing the votes doesn't actually gain you integrity.
[14:59] <Bluefoxicy> Wel,l publicizing the votes attached to the voter's identity
[14:59] <Habbie> Bluefoxicy, so, why are you doing this? school project? company project? hobby?
[14:59] <Bluefoxicy> that theoretically lets YOU verify YOUR ballot, but anyone else can A) not validate their ballot; or B) lie about the ballot being tampered with to call into question the validity of an election whose results they dislike.
[14:59] <Bluefoxicy> It was a side-hobby and it turned into people pulling me into an incubator program.
[14:59] <Habbie> that's terrible
[15:00] <Habbie> those people should -also- stop
[15:00] <Bluefoxicy> one important factor of integrity, however, is that the public must also believe it: you can't have an insecure system believed secure, but you also can't have a secure system believed insecure.
[15:01] <Bluefoxicy> which is why you don't wire things together in ways nobody can verify later and then tell people to just trust you. You do a few goofy things along the way that are not only secure, but visibly verifiable.
[15:01] <mlelstv> how would you believe in a system that you cannot verify? trust someone else?
[15:01] <Bluefoxicy> mlelstv, that's an interesting question.
[15:01] <Habbie> the problem is that your 'goofy things' provide a few necessary guarantees
[15:02] <Habbie> but at the cost of other guarantees
[15:02] <mlelstv> that's why elections should use simple methods that everyone can understand.
[15:02] <Bluefoxicy> The problem is nobody can verify any system—remember what I said about recounts? Recounts imply an error rate in counting; and if humans are counting, then humans can manipulate the error rate.
[15:02] <Habbie> at least you can recount
[15:02] <Bluefoxicy> for electronic systems, you need a system which can technically be verified at any time in the future—non-repudiation
[15:02] <Habbie> you cannot recount a computer
[15:02] <Bluefoxicy> and you need total, universal publication of that state for review by anyone, anywhere, at any time
[15:03] <Habbie> at any time during voting as well?
[15:03] <Bluefoxicy> i.e. not everyone has the personal capability to review it; but anyone in the entire world who does also can.
[15:03] <Bluefoxicy> so unless you're the one person not involved in the conspiracy, it's probably going to get noticed.
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[15:04] <Bluefoxicy> you need absolute collusion between all people both interested and capable of reviewing the system
[15:04] <Bluefoxicy> not those 5 folks over there who signed NDAs
[15:05] <Bluefoxicy> It's fairly-unlikely that any attacker can bribe every technically-capable person in the world—or find them all—so you have a system that is essentially zero-trust.
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[15:05] <mlelstv> so every capable person is looking at it and fighting for corrections?
[15:06] <Habbie> anybody looking at it would probably be doing that to reconstruct people's votes, not verify counting ;)
[15:06] <mlelstv> and you assume that these persons would even detect problems?
[15:06] <mlelstv> how so?
[15:06] <Bluefoxicy> Habbie: actually I suggest publishing the software image and the candidate data beforehand, and then proving the same is loaded at poll open (and publishing that)
[15:07] <Habbie> Bluefoxicy, another thing that is impossible
[15:07] <Bluefoxicy> so theoretically the state is known before, during, and after
[15:07] <Bluefoxicy> Habbie: Not really impossible.
[15:07] <Habbie> yes, really impossible
[15:07] <mlelstv> you can't even guarantee that whatever software you validated is used at the election.
[15:08] <Bluefoxicy> Of course you can. The machines come without media and the software is produced and loaded under observation at the start of voting.
[15:08] * jaziz1 (~jaziz@unaffiliated/jaziz) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:08] <Habbie> unless the machines come as a big bag of transistors, you cannot trust them
[15:08] <mlelstv> now that's the same you do with your paper ballots :)
[15:09] <Bluefoxicy> I don't trust the machines, either, tbh, and have assumed the machines themselves are tampered—at manufacture.
[15:09] <mlelstv> maybe you believe you can trust the hardware when it is not manufactured in china :)
[15:09] <Bluefoxicy> thus I've limited that particular attack to attackers who can see the future in full detail.
[15:10] <mlelstv> attackers who can see the future in full detail don't meddle with elections.
[15:11] <Bluefoxicy> i.e. the compiled software, data formats, and the candidates in the elections aren't known until a certain point. You acquire the hardware before that point.
[15:11] <Habbie> doesn't matter
[15:11] <Bluefoxicy> there's a reason you don't plug things into networks.
[15:11] <gordonDrogon> I never understood why it's so hard though - (1) take one button, (2) debounce, (3) connect to non-resettable counter (e.g. mile counters in cars), (4) repeat for every candidate, (5) profit ...
[15:11] <Bluefoxicy> gordonDrogon: What do you do when your district isn't using counters?
[15:11] * mlelstv doesn't believe in non-resettable counters
[15:12] <gordonDrogon> does not compute. ie. I've no idea what you mean. I only have first-hand knowledge of the UK voting system.
[15:12] <Bluefoxicy> gordonDrogon: what if someone votes multiple times (hardware button?), or accidentally clicks the wrong button?
[15:12] <gordonDrogon> ok - that's solvable.
[15:12] <Bluefoxicy> gordonDrogon: oh, here in the US we've noticed that you can hijack our elections system because of its structure
[15:12] <gordonDrogon> however the principle of keeping it so simple you can see it working.
[15:13] <gordonDrogon> I think the issue of swaying people through 'fake news' and social media is a bigger one.
[15:13] <Bluefoxicy> basically, the more-engaged, further-leaning voters vote in a "primary election" to nominate a candidate; many voters are staunch partisans and will vote for the candidate in their party in the general, and the remainder are moderates with a partisan bias who are not allowed to vote in the primaries..
[15:13] <mlelstv> like putting a piece of paper into a ballot box?
[15:13] <Bluefoxicy> gordonDrogon: yes, you've got it.
[15:14] * mike_t (~mike_t@95.67.141.207) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:14] <Bluefoxicy> it turns out a well-timed propaganda attack can easily tilt the primary to a particular candidate, and then engage the base to take the general, selecting a candidate by activating around 1% of the population.
[15:14] <Bluefoxicy> so people have been changing the voting rules
[15:15] <Bluefoxicy> Several counties now use instant run-off voting, which has horrible pathologies
[15:15] <Bluefoxicy> I've proposed Tideman's Alternative Smith for single seats and Single Transferable Vote for multiple-winner elections
[15:15] <Bluefoxicy> Tideman's Alternative method is highly-resistant to strategic nomination and strategic bloc voting
[15:16] <Bluefoxicy> and if you take large parties—say, 25% or more of the voting base is registered to the party—and have them nominate two candidates by STV, a propaganda attack gets the selected candidate PLUS the usual one sans attack
[15:16] * bitmask (~bitmask@pool-71-187-148-49.nwrknj.ftas.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Gone to sleep...)
[15:16] <Bluefoxicy> in all likelihood, the media game's favored candidate would get the secondary nomination anyway, so the results don't even change
[15:17] <Bluefoxicy> thus you provide a broad span of candidates; and people who vote third-party can send that message and ALSO denote that they would select some other candidate when theirs doesn't win
[15:17] <Bluefoxicy> which allows third parties to influence the main parties as well
[15:17] <Bluefoxicy> the last component would be electoral fusion, of course.
[15:18] <Bluefoxicy> gordonDrogon: with all of this, however, you're given the trouble of how in the heck do you handle ranked ballots ;)
[15:19] <gordonDrogon> which I'd have to google.
[15:20] <gordonDrogon> I know how to make a machine that could count votes and be tamper proof, what I don't have is the clout to get any government to do anything more than laugh at the prospct, so I'll vote with and for paper votes and people counting for as long as I can
[15:21] * Psil0Cybin (~0xDebug@unaffiliated/psil0cybin) Quit (Quit: Well its 2am, time to go home and spend some quality time with the kids.)
[15:22] <Bluefoxicy> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ there's Wikipedia for a reason
[15:23] <Bluefoxicy> in any case, I want laser serial ports.
[15:24] <gordonDrogon> why?
[15:25] <Habbie> to be fair, i also want laser serial ports
[15:26] <gordonDrogon> we used to have them - they were rubbish.
[15:26] <Habbie> yes
[15:26] <Habbie> well, i remember IR serial ports
[15:26] <Rickta59> what does the laser serial port get you Bluefoxicy ?
[15:26] <gordonDrogon> I remember trying to "beam" data from one Newton to another ..
[15:27] * CoJaBo (~aztec@unaffiliated/cojabo) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[15:28] <gordonDrogon> (it was very hit or miss fwiw)
[15:28] <mlelstv> most people use laser for something faster than a serial port
[15:28] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: In elections, you also need voter confidence. Having a bunch of stuff wired together (electrical conductors are 2-way) and assuring people it's all kosher isn't always the best thing. One-way, error-corrected serial can send real-time log data (which can reveal tampering) to an Internet-connected device (I need a lot of pi for this…) that publishes the logs during voting without running wires to somethin
[15:28] <Bluefoxicy> g with wifi.
[15:29] <Bluefoxicy> people can see a laser beam showing up if you put something in the way, and they can see the thing on the other side doesn't have an emitter
[15:29] <Rickta59> what makes the data any more valid if it is laser or serial?
[15:29] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: nothing.
[15:29] <Rickta59> so why would i be more confident in a laser than a wire?
[15:29] <Habbie> Bluefoxicy, so they'll see their own vote appear on the other side?
[15:30] <Bluefoxicy> It's purely so you don't say, "Well, I have an Ethernet cable connected, but I've cut the RX pair so the Internet can't talk to it, trust me, trust me, secure very"
[15:31] <Bluefoxicy> Habbie: no, you can't publish votes in real-time because you can correlate time (and order) of votes with time (and order) of voting to reveal voter identity.
[15:31] <Habbie> right
[15:31] <Habbie> that was actually the point i was going to make
[15:31] <Bluefoxicy> I randomly-assign ballot IDs to each ballot in each race (a ballot sheet is multiple ballots) without assigning voter ID, and order all the ballots by ballot ID
[15:31] <Bluefoxicy> that decorrelates them from the bigger ballot sheet and from the order of voting
[15:32] <Rickta59> so they don't have paper scanned ballots where you are Bluefoxicy ?
[15:32] <Bluefoxicy> and then, before copying any data off, I compute what amounts to a hash of a strictly-generated representation of all the ballots so you can prove the ballot set is the exact same set and from that location at any point in the future
[15:33] <Rickta59> that seems to be the only solution to me .. paper ballots scanned, that can be recounted without machines
[15:33] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: we do. The machines that scan ballots we purchased in 2016. They are supplied by a company which was itself purchased in 2015 by a Russian politician working with Vladimir Putin.
[15:33] <Rickta59> so make the process .. scan with machines
[15:33] <Rickta59> then at the final tally .. count by hand
[15:33] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: we take the ballots out of the sight of the voters, then bring them back in public to count them.
[15:33] <Habbie> Rickta59, that -is- the only solution
[15:34] <Bluefoxicy> in between, we tell people that the ballots are "in a secure location"
[15:34] <Rickta59> well that is a process issue
[15:34] <Bluefoxicy> of course we're free to add, remove, and alter ballots during this process, assuming the secure location isn't so secure
[15:34] <Rickta59> not a technical issue
[15:34] <Bluefoxicy> yeah no kidding.
[15:34] <Rickta59> so fix that instead of adding a laser show
[15:34] <Bluefoxicy> We also throw out ballots that are mismarked in any way—well, in any way the judge decides is "sufficient"
[15:34] <Bluefoxicy> because a stray mark might be a signal to a corrupt election judge who has bought a huge bloc of votes
[15:35] <Rickta59> when i scan my paper ballot if anything is mismarked it kicks it
[15:35] <Bluefoxicy> so the human counters have some discretion in which votes to count
[15:35] * seventh__ (~seventh__@unaffiliated/seventh--/x-9387472) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:35] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: bubbles filled in with a little bit of the right edge not fully filled? A tiny line sticking out of the corner? Things the machine doesn't care about, and that the human might not care about, or might reject.
[15:36] <Bluefoxicy> Did you fill a bubble sparsely and then use your finger to smudge?
[15:36] <Bluefoxicy> hmm, that could be a signal to a vote-buyer
[15:36] <Rickta59> how hard is it to properly fill the bubbles ..
[15:36] <Bluefoxicy> Yes I think I'm not going to count this one.
[15:36] <quackeed_> I've just installed raspbian via etcher on a sd card and when I try to mount it on another pi it says wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda2 etc
[15:36] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: shrug. There are a lot of bubbles to fill
[15:36] <Rickta59> give me a break
[15:36] <quackeed_> mounting sda1 worked fine
[15:37] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: scantron is quite tolerant of malformed marks for a reason :P
[15:37] <mlelstv> http://henrysbench.capnfatz.com/henrys-bench/arduino-output-devices/ky-008-arduino-laser-module-guide-and-tutorial/
[15:37] <Bluefoxicy> people want to hurry up and check the boxes and then go home
[15:38] <quackeed_> how can that be on a fresh install?
[15:38] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: in any case, while I can carry on this debate on technical merits, the fact of the matter is DRE equipment is with us to stay, and it's horrible right now. Strange things go into this, some of which are selected because they're functional AND showy.
[15:38] <Bluefoxicy> wat
[15:38] <Bluefoxicy> bad superblock?
[15:38] <Rickta59> http://images.publicradio.org/content/2008/11/04/20081104_mccainballot_33.jpg
[15:38] <Rickta59> that is what our ballots look like
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[15:39] <Rickta59> the candidates and questions are there on the ballot
[15:39] <quackeed_> dmesg | tail says [ 4346.598737] EXT4-fs (sda2): Unrecognized mount option "uid=1000" or missing value
[15:39] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: do you see the notice to fill in the bubble completely at the top?
[15:39] <Rickta59> that person is an idiot
[15:39] <Rickta59> it tells you to fill in the bubble
[15:39] <Rickta59> the poll workers tell you to fill in the bubble
[15:39] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: the machine will read it. The election judge will throw it out during hand-counting.
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[15:40] <Rickta59> another problem with process not technical
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[15:41] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: there was a revolt in Kansas this year due to one of the Gubernatorial candidates also being Secretary of State, placing him at the highest office overseeing the counting of ballots.
[15:41] <Rickta59> and can't be solved with a technical laser show
[15:41] <Rickta59> all these problems are process
[15:41] <Rickta59> there is currently same problem in GA .. but it is a process issue
[15:42] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: again, that's a verifiability issue. It's the same as why people protest against using the superior Yosemite Bowline knot for climbing and instead use the regular Bowline, which is more-prone to fail.
[15:42] <Bluefoxicy> Climbers use the Bowline because you can tie the Yosemite Bowline by being attentive and understanding the knot.
[15:42] <Rickta59> i just don't see how adding a laser is going to fix any of these problems
[15:42] <Bluefoxicy> It's actually pretty trivial
[15:42] <Rickta59> which was your question no?
[15:43] <Bluefoxicy> While the Yosemite Bowline is much less likely to fail than the Bowline, however, you can verify the Bowline by glancing at it distractedly after having drunk three beers.
[15:44] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: using a light-based one-way transmitter rather than a wire-based one allows people to plainly look at a thing and understand that it is in fact one-way and not some kind of sleight-of-hand trick to sneak two-way copper-wire communication onto the platform
[15:44] <Rickta59> how do you know there isn't an ir second comm channel?
[15:44] <Bluefoxicy> i.e. it's for show. This is "voter confidence"
[15:44] <Rickta59> how do you know there isn't an esp8266 in there
[15:44] <Rickta59> or some other wireless comm
[15:45] <Rickta59> i would laugh at the laser idea
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[15:45] <Rickta59> and not feel any more confident
[15:45] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: any electromagnetic wave which encounters a conductive barrier surrounding a space cannot enter the barrier
[15:45] <mlelstv> if someone insists that magic makes things better, I would even have less confidence.
[15:45] <Rickta59> exactly mlelstv
[15:45] <Bluefoxicy> an electromagnetic wave generally cannot penetrate a conductor woven into a mesh if the spacing of the mesh is 1/2 the wavelength of the wave, although we use 1/10 for certainty.
[15:46] <Rickta59> an ir wave is going to follow the same path as the laser
[15:46] <Bluefoxicy> this happens because electrons travel on the outside of a conductor, and the wave induces a current in the conductor
[15:46] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: Wifi and bluetooth are at low-frequencies, below visible.
[15:46] <Rickta59> infrared not wifi
[15:46] <Bluefoxicy> and IR is line-of-sight and requires a visible IR receiver.
[15:46] <Rickta59> invisible light
[15:46] <Bluefoxicy> besides
[15:47] <Rickta59> for every scheme you come up with the russians/smart people will defeat it
[15:47] <mlelstv> IR isn't line of sight.
[15:47] <Bluefoxicy> wait, what
[15:47] <mlelstv> not even visible light is that
[15:47] <Bluefoxicy> there's specific IR-transmitting and IR-blocking polycarbonate, what?
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[15:47] <Bluefoxicy> why are there specific modifications to make it do both?
[15:47] <Rickta59> does your tv transmitter work if you bounce it off the ceiling?
[15:48] <mlelstv> it usually does, you also do not need 100% alignment
[15:48] <mlelstv> it's not a laser (and even lasers are not 100% perfect)
[15:48] <Bluefoxicy> Ah, polycarbonate by default should transmit down to 400nm
[15:49] <Bluefoxicy> shrug use a blue gel filter
[15:49] <Bluefoxicy> damn
[15:49] <Rickta59> so it leaves the laser and enters the internet .. what protects it there?
[15:49] <Bluefoxicy> 1600nm fall-off
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[15:49] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: nothing. That's the point: what's outgoing is not secret.
[15:49] <Rickta59> remote hacking the internet is easier than getting into voting machines
[15:50] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: the outgoing is essentially that I've set things up such that it would take longer than the election day to alter the logs to cover up physical tampering; and I'm an incorrigible git and still want to publish the logs in real-time because whatever your ping to the public web server is is shorter than waiting until the close of polling.
[15:51] <Bluefoxicy> i.e. it's ridiculous, unnecessary, but apparently trivial so let's do it
[15:52] <Rickta59> i hope they aren't paying for your advice
[15:52] <Bluefoxicy> (like using borosilicate glass for everything)
[15:52] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: it's not unprecedented
[15:52] <Bluefoxicy> do you firewall just the open ports on your public-facing servers, or do you firewall EVERYTHING except the specific ports which should be accessible from the Internet?
[15:53] <Rickta59> why not just use led communication .. slower and more visible and there is code floating around to do it without fancy lasers
[15:53] <Bluefoxicy> if you just don't want the Internet connecting to MySQL and SSH, why not just drop tcp/3306 and tcp/22 and allow any/any?
[15:54] <Bluefoxicy> Rickta59: same deal. Laser diode and LED take the same electrical input; laser just fires a beam built by a different method, and often requires a collimnating lens anyway.
[15:54] <Rickta59> but i still laugh at the idea
[15:54] <Bluefoxicy> but you get the point
[15:55] <Rickta59> i don't but i'm going to stop talking
[15:55] <Bluefoxicy> Well if you don't get the point of blocking ports at the firewall even if you're not using them, I can't help you
[15:55] <Bluefoxicy> anyway I'm going to go find food.
[15:56] <Bluefoxicy> It amazes me people still ask "why" when someone asks "how"
[15:56] <Bluefoxicy> Why build an electric lightbulb? We have gas lighting.
[15:56] <Rickta59> because if you are asking how you probably don't understand the problem
[15:57] <Bluefoxicy> That doesn't make any sense.
[15:57] <Bluefoxicy> You want to build a shed.
[15:57] <Rickta59> there are millions of answers on how to do laser comms
[15:57] <Bluefoxicy> A shed built directly on mud will sink and sag and collapse due to unstable foundation
[15:57] <Rickta59> you didn't find one of them
[15:57] <Bluefoxicy> So you need a foundation. How do you build a foundation?
[15:57] * bmlzootown (~bmlzootow@unaffiliated/bmlzootown) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[15:57] <Bluefoxicy> the answer isn't "sheds are stupid"
[15:58] <Rickta59> maybe there was a point where questions didn't find ready answers before google .. however there is google
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[15:59] <Bluefoxicy> Oh I tried google, asking about sending data over LED and over laser diode (I figured LED was a better lead)
[15:59] <Bluefoxicy> although I've only been at it since Thursday
[15:59] <Rickta59> laser communications arduino
[15:59] <Bluefoxicy> that helps.
[15:59] * JohnBeales (~johnbeale@dsl-173-206-16-71.tor.primus.ca) Quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
[16:00] <Bluefoxicy> a less-hostile support community would help too, but everything can't be ##programming or ##csharp I guess.
[16:00] * Bluefoxicy (~Bluefoxic@c-67-162-235-250.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has left #raspberrypi
[16:05] <mlelstv> just write your name on the voting machine
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[16:30] <Varazir> Hi, I have the PI NOIR CAMERA V2.1 and wonder if I need https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raspberry-Pi-Camera-Module-IR-Night-Vision-2-1mm-Fish-Eye-Mini-Kossel-Octoprint-/311586849658 ?
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[16:42] <Khaytsus> Varazir: That is a camera module itself..
[16:42] <Varazir> Khaytsus: ok thanks
[16:42] <Khaytsus> Varazir: What are you really asking; do you need an IR emitter?
[16:42] <Khaytsus> If so, yes, if you want night time visibility
[16:43] <Khaytsus> But you can get those for much cheaper than that ebay module, since it has a camera built into it... amazon has various ones as does fleabay I suppose
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[16:44] <Varazir> I have this one https://r-pi.se/kommunikation/raspberry-pi-pinoir-camera-v2-video-module
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[16:45] <Varazir> thought I need to buy the Night Vision Infrared Illuminator Module
[16:46] <Khaytsus> ...
[16:46] <Varazir> but I can't see how they will get the power from the camera module
[16:46] <Khaytsus> They don't
[16:46] <Khaytsus> You power them entirely separately
[16:47] <Khaytsus> https://www.amazon.com/Power-Array-Illuminator-Vision-Camera/dp/B01D73XM24 like this, just for reference.. not suggesting it. Requires a 12V, 1A power supply.
[16:47] <Varazir> do you have any site I can read on how b/c I can't find any
[16:47] <Khaytsus> Read on what?? You power the IR light separately.
[16:50] * iodev_ is now known as iodev
[16:50] <akk> The easy way is just to plug in two separate power supplies, one 12v for the light, one 5v for the pi. Otherwise you need to deal with voltage regulators/buck converters.
[16:51] <akk> Or find an IR light that runs off 5v, but those are harder to find.
[16:51] <Varazir> so plug in 12v into this https://www.kjell.com/se/sortiment/el-verktyg/elektronik/optokomponenter/ir-dioder-fototransistorer/luxorparts-ir-stralkastarmodul-1-w-2-pack-p90669 ?
[16:51] <Khaytsus> You could always put a relay somewhere so the Pi controls the IR emitter.. or a light sensor, etc
[16:54] <akk> Varazir: I think that page says the light runs off 3.3V?
[16:54] <Varazir> akk: yes
[16:54] <akk> So no, you probably don't want to supply 12v to it.
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[16:54] <Varazir> I thought so ;)
[16:55] <Varazir> just making sure you was talking about the correct parts
[16:55] <akk> But you don't want to drive it off one of the Pi's GPIO pins either, so you might need a 3.3v supply in addition to the pi's 5v supply.
[16:55] <Varazir> ok
[16:55] <akk> Maybe 5v is okay for those lights, but I'd probably look for some that explicitly say 5v.
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[17:10] <Varazir> akk: I'll see what I can find.
[17:11] <Varazir> thanks
[17:12] <TheNik> I think Etcher 1.4.5 is broken. It fails to flash raspbian images to SD cards, while Etcher 1.4.4 is fine. Anyone had similar issues?
[17:13] <Habbie> TheNik, how is it failing?
[17:13] <TheNik> An error of the sort "toString() radix argument must be between 2 and 36"
[17:14] <TheNik> And lots of cryptic stuff I cannot decipher in the error window.
[17:14] <Habbie> can you show us?
[17:14] <TheNik> Uh, let me try it
[17:16] <TheNik> It might take some time, the error happens when it is at the very end of the "Flashing" phase. ETA 3:30
[17:16] * Night-Shade (~TimF@2a02:8109:9a80:6d80:41e8:e191:d967:a11a) has joined #raspberrypi
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[17:20] <TheNik> Habbie: https://i.imgur.com/hPbEYae.png
[17:22] <TheNik> That happens consistently. Tried with two different SD cards, two different Raspbian Stretch Lite images and separately downloaded Etcher 1.4.5 portable x86 executables, on two different Windows 7 machines (32 bit and 64 bit respectively)
[17:22] * Night-Shade (~TimF@2a02:8109:9a80:6d80:41e8:e191:d967:a11a) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:30] <echoSMIL3> The behavior of 'shutdown -h now' for rpi bring any issue? Because after it, if I unplug and plug again the power it won't boot
[17:32] <echoSMIL3> by the way, it's a rpi3b+
[17:32] <gordonDrogon> it shouldn't have issues - did you wait until the green LED flashes (10 times) before removing power?
[17:33] <echoSMIL3> 10 times exactly?
[17:33] * TheNik (~TheNik@p200300C22BFA1800B52D79617FBD7A52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[17:44] <gordonDrogon> you just have to wait until it flashes, but it flashes 10 times before stopping.
[17:45] * echoSMIL3 is now known as echoSMILE
[17:46] <cryptic> I hate amzon
[17:46] <cryptic> amazon
[17:47] <cryptic> I bought a raspberry pi in 2017 expecting the newest model, but got an older model from 2016
[17:47] <cryptic> didn't realize it until now
[17:47] <cryptic> so always verify you got the correct model
[17:48] <echoSMILE> gordonDrogon, let me check
[17:50] <gordonDrogon> well - a bit late now :)
[17:51] <gordonDrogon> echoSMILE, do you have a monitor - ie. can you see anything while/if it boots at all?
[17:51] <gordonDrogon> power on - rainbow square - green led flickers a few times, then 4 raspberries and the boot starts ...
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[17:52] <echoSMILE> gordonDrogon, if I reflash everything boot ok. And yes, I have a monitor
[17:52] <echoSMILE> let me check if is only a video output issue
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[17:56] <gordonDrogon> typing sudo halt is quicker than shutdown -h now though.
[17:56] <gordonDrogon> does exactly the same thing these days (historically it didn't)
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[18:03] <echoSMILE> gordonDrogon, well, reboot things go ok. 'shutdown -h now' or 'poweroff' after power in again the board works (I access it from ssh) but the video don't
[18:04] <echoSMILE> after shutdown or poweroff, the 10x blink happen
[18:04] * TheNik (~TheNik@p200300C22BFA1800888188ABF1F447D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[18:05] <TheNik> For anyone wondering about my long boot time issue with the Raspi Zero: https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/a/90146/92618
[18:05] <echoSMILE> I'm using raspbian, but happens with other gnu linux distribution (gentoo)
[18:05] <mfa298> cryptic: if you bought it in 2017 then the 2016 model (the Pi 3B) was probably the latest model at that time.
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[18:07] <echoSMILE> gordonDrogon, by the way: if I reboot from ssh, the video turn on again
[18:07] <echoSMILE> :/
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[18:09] <cryptic> mfa298: it wasn't
[18:10] <cryptic> if you check the reviews on that model, it happened to a couple people
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[18:16] <gordonDrogon> echoSMILE, have a look in /boot/config.txt - there's a parameter to force the hdmi video on.
[18:17] <gordonDrogon> if the Pi doesn't detect an hdmi video at power-on time then it reverts to composite video output.
[18:17] <gordonDrogon> some monitors are very quick at turning off and take time to turn on again...
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[18:17] <gordonDrogon> cryptic, got a link to the amazon site?
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[18:30] <Smokie> is it true 3B will have better performance if Raspbian is run from a usb stick instead of sd card?
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[18:31] <Habbie> Smokie, depends on the sd card; depends on the usb stick; depends on what you are doing
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[18:36] <echoSMILE> rpi3b+ (the one I'm using) watch hd video at browser sucks, or it's my window manager not so optimized?
[18:36] <echoSMILE> cpu go 100%
[18:36] <echoSMILE> normal?
[18:36] <echoSMILE> hd 480p
[18:36] <echoSMILE> sorry, 720p
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[18:39] <Smokie> Habbie, makes sense i guess
[18:39] <gordonDrogon> browser will be doing software video decode and not using the gpu (I suspect)
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[18:41] <echoSMILE> gordonDrogon, but can I config to browser use gpu ?
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[18:43] <gordonDrogon> I've no idea. I only ever used kodi when doing media stuff on a Pi.
[18:44] <echoSMILE> ok. ty
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[18:47] <echoSMILE> gordonDrogon, about my /boot/config.txt here you can see it: https://pastebin.com/WnS7aSpa
[18:47] <echoSMILE> which parameter is used to force hdmi video on?
[18:47] <gordonDrogon> hdmi_force_hotplug
[18:48] <gordonDrogon> uncomment that line, save the file and reboot.
[18:48] <iodev> okay, so I made myself a CA
[18:48] <iodev> for my Pi :D
[18:49] <echoSMILE> gordonDrogon, if I reboot, even without touching the config.txt, the video will work, the thing is after poweroff
[18:50] <gordonDrogon> ok, then edit the file, shutdown, power off, count to 5, power on ...
[18:50] <gordonDrogon> or wait until monitor goes into powersave mode.
[18:51] <echoSMILE> gordonDrogon, well, it worked, but... the resolution goes very low
[18:51] <echoSMILE> can I force to detect the monitor max resolution?
[18:52] <gordonDrogon> no, but you can change the other parameters to force higher resolution.
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[18:53] <echoSMILE> but if I plug the board in another tv/monitor it won't scan the max resolution or it will?
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[18:53] <gordonDrogon> if you fix the resolution it will stay fixed - that's what 'force' means.
[18:54] <gordonDrogon> if the hdmi monitor is off, or in standby mode, then the Pi can't see it to ask it's size.
[18:54] <gordonDrogon> so it defaults to using the composite output. To stop that, you force the hdmi on, but then it doesn't know the size...
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[18:55] <echoSMILE> ok ok
[18:55] <echoSMILE> tks
[18:55] <gordonDrogon> there is no magic solution here - you just need to know what you are doing and what to expect. one way might be to make sue the monitor is always on when you turn the Pi on (for example)
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[18:55] <echoSMILE> all testing I'm doing is always on
[18:55] <echoSMILE> but ok. I got it. tks
[18:57] <echoSMILE> probably I will want some command to reset the resolution after boot
[18:58] * akk (~akk@97-123-90-36.albq.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: +++)
[19:00] <gordonDrogon> I think there is - tvservice or something - never used it, but I'm sure if you google you'll get something.
[19:01] * seventh__ (~seventh__@unaffiliated/seventh--/x-9387472) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[19:02] <mfa298> cryptic: what model did you get (2016 would suggest the Pi3B) and what model would you have expected to get ?
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[19:05] <iodev> it works :D
[19:05] <iodev> I can't believe it
[19:05] <iodev> my Raspberry Pi runs: ZNC, Docker, Gogs in Docker, Nginx and Yubico-PAM and it doesn't overheat :D
[19:06] <iodev> and OpenVPN too :D
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[19:18] <Encrypt> iodev, Only?
[19:18] <Encrypt> Mine runs more stuff :]
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[19:27] <solsTiCe> hi. Say I have booted my rpi without the TV on. So now that I turn the TV on, I got nothing on screen. How can I activate the HDMI output without a reboot with the TV already on ?
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[19:34] <gordonDrogon> solsTiCe, er I'd say see above, but I guess you'ev only just joined.
[19:35] <uriah> so uh
[19:35] <gordonDrogon> solsTiCe, edit /boot/config.txt and read it and change the line you need to change.
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[19:35] <uriah> gordonDrogon: you don't have a software defined radio do you?
[19:35] <solsTiCe> no no. When I boot with the TV on it's fine. It's jsut I don't want to reboot just because I forgot to turn the TV on.
[19:36] <solsTiCe> I find out the solution /opt/vc/bin/tvservice --preferred and then restart kodi
[19:36] <solsTiCe> no reboot needed at last
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[19:38] <gordonDrogon> uriah, I have no SDR
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[19:48] <uriah> ok
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[20:31] <echoSMILE> the board (rpi3b+) get very high temperature, could this run 24/7 without issues?
[20:31] <echoSMILE> I'm only with X open doing nothing.
[20:31] <TheNik> Use a heat sink, should be fine.
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[20:33] <echoSMILE> TheNik, why the board doesn't bring one already?
[20:33] <echoSMILE> :/
[20:33] <Fulgen> echoSMILE: why should it
[20:33] <Fulgen> the temperature totally depends on your usecase
[20:33] <TheNik> Ask the Raspberry Pi Foundation, I did not design or market the board. ;-)
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[20:34] <echoSMILE> my use case is with X open doing nothing
[20:34] <echoSMILE> :>
[20:34] <Reedy> does top/similar agree it's doing nothing?
[20:34] <echoSMILE> yep
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[20:34] <echoSMILE> load average: 0.11, 0.21, 0.10
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[20:35] <Fulgen> what's "very high temperature"
[20:38] <echoSMILE> i can't put my finger on it. but let me check the sensors
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[20:45] <gordonDrogon> it should throttle back automatically when it gets too hot. I forget the exact numbers but I think there are 2 limits at 80�C and 85�C
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[20:46] <gordonDrogon> /opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd measure_temp
[20:46] <dadada> hi
[20:47] <dadada> I'm looking for a small display that is suitable for displaying a simple console window, I only need monochrome colors (black and white), it should have a minimal power draw, I'd also like a retro look (but that's not a must), the most important thing is that it should work with a pi
[20:48] <Fulgen> dadada: an ePaper display perhaps?
[20:49] <dadada> Fulgen: yeah, thought of that, but they seem rather expensive, but if you know an epaper display with a nice size, that can interact with hdmi or is otherwise easy to use with pi, tell me about it
[20:49] <gordonDrogon> how small?
[20:49] <Fulgen> Papirus
[20:50] <dadada> gordonDrogon: at least 4 inches
[20:50] <dadada> I'd prefer 7 inches or so
[20:51] <gordonDrogon> https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/hyperpixel-4?variant=12569539706963
[20:51] * CoJaBo (~aztec@unaffiliated/cojabo) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:51] <gordonDrogon> well there's the foundation 7" dsiplay.
[20:51] <gordonDrogon> unlikely to get monochrome that size though.
[20:51] <gordonDrogon> simply no demand for it.
[20:52] <gordonDrogon> https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/hdmi-8-lcd-screen-kit-1024x768
[20:54] <dadada> gordonDrogon: what's a keypad?
[20:55] * SAXiao (~Aimann@2607:fea8:5ac0:a12:fd8a:f818:6505:598f) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[20:55] <echoSMILE> gordonDrogon, /opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd measure_temp <- probably this is for raspbian ?
[20:55] <gordonDrogon> dadada, a pad with keys on it.
[20:55] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@2a01cb0401d1720076d02bfffe31b37c.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] * nibble_zero (~nibble_ze@37.244.231.177) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:56] <dadada> looks like 5 keys... a real mini keyboard would have been useful
[20:56] <gordonDrogon> echoSMILE, yes, but any sensible distro ought to have that in it somewhere.
[20:56] <dadada> not that the 5 keys couldn't be useful
[20:56] <gordonDrogon> I think newer kernels have the usual stuff in /sysfs now too for temperature, etc.
[20:56] <echoSMILE> damn, my kernel doesn't have modules enabled to work with lm_sensors
[20:57] <gordonDrogon> lm_sensors won't work on the pi anyway.
[20:57] <echoSMILE> oh
[20:57] <echoSMILE> anything I should use instead?
[20:57] * pauliunas (uid237462@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zbkejipigormpxex) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:57] <gordonDrogon> the vcgencmd command.
[20:57] <gordonDrogon> or look in /sys
[20:58] * Mr_Keyser_Soze (~Mr_Keyser@209-248-102-183.falconbroadband.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:59] * tuxiano (~tuxiano@HSI-KBW-46-223-87-139.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:59] <echoSMILE> Oh, I can access it directly
[20:59] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@2a01cb0401d1720076d02bfffe31b37c.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:00] * Cbast (~sfrigon@107.190.38.187) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:00] <gordonDrogon> try cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp
[21:00] <echoSMILE> is says temp=53.2'C
[21:00] <echoSMILE> but, could 53.2c burn my finger? that's strange :/
[21:00] * irc_viewer_test (irc_viewer@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/ircviewertest/x-06412631) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:01] <gordonDrogon> yes. anything over 45�C will hurt.
[21:01] * Cbast (~sfrigon@107.190.38.187) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:01] <gordonDrogon> over 200�C is instant skin burn. (he says, looking at his arm )-:
[21:02] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@2a01cb0401d1720076d02bfffe31b37c.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:03] <CoJaBo> I've burnt my fingers in incredibly stupid ways before
[21:03] <gordonDrogon> I run a small bakery ...
[21:03] <Fulgen> echoSMILE: 53.2°C isn't hot for a Pi
[21:03] <echoSMILE> Fulgen, sure. I thought was more to be honest
[21:04] <echoSMILE> ;P
[21:04] <Fulgen> gordonDrogon: ouch
[21:04] * fredp (~fredp@unaffiliated/fredp) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:04] <Fulgen> echoSMILE: I know what you mean :D
[21:04] <echoSMILE> https://superuser.com/a/749172
[21:04] <echoSMILE> hehe
[21:04] <echoSMILE> 50ºC (122ºF) is a not bad temperature for any microchip.
[21:05] <echoSMILE> Microchips starts getting damaged on its lifetime at 60ºC (140ºF).
[21:05] * Mr_Keyser_Soze (~Mr_Keyser@209-248-102-183.falconbroadband.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:05] <Fulgen> a CPU doesn't get damaged at 60°C o.O
[21:05] * CoJaBo checks temperatures of servers in DC
[21:06] <echoSMILE> Fulgen, this for 24/7
[21:06] <CoJaBo> Here we go, I found one that's at 26,453,348°C
[21:06] <CoJaBo> Toasty.
[21:06] <echoSMILE> A chip running at 70ºC (158ºF) during 24 hours and 7 days a week, will probably last 2-6 years.
[21:06] <echoSMILE> ...
[21:06] <echoSMILE> A chip running at 90ºC (194ºF) during 24 hours and 7 days a week, will probably last 6-20 months.
[21:06] <Fulgen> ah
[21:07] <CoJaBo> What about one running at 26,453,348°C during 24 hours and 7 days a week?
[21:07] <echoSMILE> and, all depends of the relatives of stuff :P
[21:07] <echoSMILE> CoJaBo, are you operation the sun? :P
[21:07] <CoJaBo> I like how it formats the number, as if it routinely expects servers to be operating at higher than a thousand degrees.
[21:07] <echoSMILE> *operating
[21:08] <gordonDrogon> my bakery Pi is currently 33.6�C (A+), home/office PBX Pi is 39�C (Pi 2). both these run 24/7
[21:08] * jasmith (~jasmith@ip68-102-33-67.ks.ok.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[21:08] <CoJaBo> echoSMILE: There is one OpenSolaris server, and I am just waiting for the day where it's temperature is the one that glitches out
[21:08] <gordonDrogon> the bakery pi controls an oven and it can get a little warm - up to about 50 I think but that's only in the middle if summe when the room gets up to about 36.
[21:08] <CoJaBo> So I can file a bug saying "the Sun is hot, omg!"
[21:09] <TheNik> CoJaBo: CPU != Computing Plasma Unit
[21:09] <CoJaBo> We don't yet know what causes them to glitch out either
[21:10] <CoJaBo> Pretty frequently, it's an even power of 2, tho not this time AFAICT
[21:10] <echoSMILE> gordonDrogon, what distribution you use for PBX?
[21:11] <CoJaBo> It's somewhere in the monitoring system tho; because the glitches are always far above the range of the ints used by the actual hardware readout
[21:11] <gordonDrogon> echoSMILE, raspbian.
[21:11] <CoJaBo> Some of them are far below too lol
[21:11] <gordonDrogon> I only use raspbian.
[21:16] <dadada> can't wait for eink displays being available to consumers at reasonable prices
[21:16] * irc_viewer_test (irc_viewer@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/ircviewertest/x-06412631) Quit (Quit: irc_viewer_test)
[21:18] <gordonDrogon> https://shop.pimoroni.com/?q=eink <-- looks very reasonable to me.
[21:18] * SAXiao (~Aimann@2607:fea8:5ac0:a12:b0d9:f30c:dec1:ba82) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:18] * mike_t (~mike_t@95.67.141.207) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:19] <CoJaBo> I'm waiting for fairly large screens to become available. I'd have soo many uses for that, even if it's monochrome
[21:19] * swensson (4e40720a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.64.114.10) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:19] * SAXiao (~Aimann@2607:fea8:5ac0:a12:b0d9:f30c:dec1:ba82) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:19] <CoJaBo> So far they're still like $3k :/
[21:20] <CoJaBo> I could buy a couple 4K monitors for that lol
[21:20] <dadada> gordonDrogon: the shop's prices may be reasonable, but the technology isn't worth that money to me, even though I like it
[21:20] <Encrypt> iodev, Back :P
[21:21] * tvm (~tvm@router-sever1-nat-m.pilsfree.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:22] <dadada> the mini thermal printer is cool though
[21:23] * patr0clus (~s3nd1v0g1@unaffiliated/patr0clus) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:24] <Encrypt> dadada, It's definitely not as good as this one: https://twitter.com/VayroGryphon/status/1048327476626292736
[21:25] * patr0clus is now known as s3nd1vog1us
[21:25] * s3nd1vog1us is now known as s3nd1v0g1us
[21:25] <dadada> Encrypt: :D
[21:26] <TheNik> Encrypt: What? How did this happen?
[21:26] * Smithe (~Smithe@gateway/tor-sasl/smithe) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:26] <Encrypt> TheNik, Science :]
[21:26] * bitmask (~bitmask@pool-71-187-148-49.nwrknj.ftas.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Gone to sleep...)
[21:26] * Smithe (~Smithe@gateway/tor-sasl/smithe) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:27] <CoJaBo> Eww, Epson
[21:28] <CoJaBo> Encrypt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lp0_on_fire
[21:29] <Encrypt> Yeah, I already had a loot at this article, eh eh
[21:29] <Encrypt> I didn't know that existed before
[21:30] <uriah> anyone else interested in testing a beta release for rpi3b + rtl-sdr?
[21:30] <TheNik> "The first [...] fire-starting printer was a Stromberg-Carlson 5000 [...] modified [...] to achieve a print speed of one page per second. In the event of a printing stall, [...] the fusing oven would heat paper to combustion. This fire risk was aggravated by the fact that if the printer continued to operate, it would essentially stoke the oven with fresh paper at high speed."
[21:31] <TheNik> Nice. I want that too
[21:31] <CoJaBo> Encrypt: I had a system tell me I was "not a typewriter" once.
[21:32] * nshire (~nealshire@unaffiliated/nealshire) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:32] <CoJaBo> My fave printer fire story. Long but worth it https://old.reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport/comments/2cgxav/all_of_your_equipment_is_now_scrap/
[21:34] * Cbast (~sfrigon@107.190.38.187) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:35] * DrFrankensteinUK (~admin@cpc102206-lanc8-2-0-cust33.3-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:37] * Fulgen (~Fulgen@46.125.32.196) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[21:46] * fredp (~fredp@unaffiliated/fredp) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:47] <genr8_> The "on fire" message remains in the Linux source code as of version 4.18.[6]
[21:47] * Cbast (~sfrigon@107.190.38.187) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:51] * Smithe (~Smithe@gateway/tor-sasl/smithe) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[22:00] * echoSMILE (~echoSMILE@unaffiliated/echosmile) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:03] * Smithe (~Smithe@gateway/tor-sasl/smithe) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:05] * TheFatherMind (~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: bbs)
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[22:09] * swensson (4e40720a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.64.114.10) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[22:11] * Night-Shade (~TimF@2a02:8109:9a80:6d80:41e8:e191:d967:a11a) Quit (Client Quit)
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[22:33] * Mr_Keyser_Soze (~Mr_Keyser@209-248-102-183.falconbroadband.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:35] * darksim (~quassel@78-72-41-176-no186.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:39] * SebastianFlyte (~sebf@pool-173-79-171-251.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[22:51] * Cbast (~sfrigon@107.190.38.187) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[22:58] * TheFatherMind (TheFatherM@cpe-172-117-155-5.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:00] * s3nd1v0g1us (~s3nd1v0g1@unaffiliated/patr0clus) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[23:01] * XV8 (~XV8@203.sub-174-204-36.myvzw.com) Quit (Quit: Went to find some other shit to do.)
[23:02] * s3nd1v0g1us (~s3nd1v0g1@unaffiliated/patr0clus) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:04] * thestapler (d808b455@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.8.180.85) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:04] * Keanu73 (~Keanu73@2ProIntl/User/Geek/Keanu73) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:05] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:05] <thestapler> I found an Android 7.1 tablet iso for the pi, and i have it installed, and running...but was curious if anyone could help me remove the lower/bottom bar that has the home buttons on it?
[23:08] * nshire (~nealshire@unaffiliated/nealshire) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:10] * wgas (~wgas@unaffiliated/wgas) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:17] <xacktm> might ask #android if it's an android OS
[23:18] * random_yanek (~random_ya@host-89-230-164-243.dynamic.mm.pl) Quit (Quit: random_yanek)
[23:19] * random_yanek (~random_ya@host-89-230-164-243.dynamic.mm.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:19] * random_yanek (~random_ya@host-89-230-164-243.dynamic.mm.pl) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[23:26] * whysthatso (~whysthats@5973-a0eb-4476-e49b-9380-832f-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee) Quit (Quit: whysthatso)
[23:26] * Mr_Keyser_Soze (~Mr_Keyser@209-248-102-183.falconbroadband.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:36] * jhammons (~jhammons@unaffiliated/jhammons) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[23:41] * torchic___ (~noturboo@i.am.phantas.tk) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:41] * Cbast (~sfrigon@107.190.38.187) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[23:42] * aName (uid154453@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mtnrrdybipqlviyn) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:45] * torchic_____ (~noturboo@i.am.phantas.tk) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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[23:49] * thecoffemaker (~thecoffem@unaffiliated/thecoffemaker) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[23:51] * DaCoolCat (~Dr._Cat@63.153.194.12) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:52] <DaCoolCat> Hi
[23:52] * random_yanek (~random_ya@host-89-230-164-117.dynamic.mm.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:52] * fredp (~fredp@unaffiliated/fredp) Quit ()
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[23:56] * TheFatherMind (TheFatherM@cpe-172-117-155-5.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.