#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2018-10-22

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] * mfa298 (~mfa298@krikkit.yapd.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:00] <wuzamarine> Habbie: I can confirm both channels are live
[0:01] <Habbie> so one fun thing to do
[0:01] <Habbie> would be to connect this to something that is not a pi zero
[0:01] <Habbie> :)
[0:01] <Habbie> are you suspecting software?
[0:01] <RoyK> Encrypt: what do you mean?
[0:01] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[0:02] <wuzamarine> Habbie: I have a Pi3. What do those pins connect to?
[0:02] * Oranged0t (~alx@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:03] <Habbie> oh i have no clue
[0:03] <Habbie> i'm not even sure what the related pins on a pi zero do
[0:04] * aydio (~adem@unaffiliated/aydio) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.2)
[0:04] <RoyK> wuzamarine: google raspberry pi pinout
[0:04] <RoyK> they're quite useful
[0:05] <Habbie> i like pinout.xyz
[0:07] <AlexPortable> Will I benefit from installing a heatsink on my pi?
[0:08] <wuzamarine> I can't find pp1 or pp6 in the gpio
[0:08] <Habbie> AlexPortable, i don't know; do you have reasons to believe you might?
[0:08] <AlexPortable> 50-60 cpu temp
[0:08] <ferdinand> Yes, you would benefit
[0:09] <Habbie> AlexPortable, that's a "no" then, i think?
[0:09] * Oranged0t (~alx@ Quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com)
[0:10] <AlexPortable> not?
[0:10] <Habbie> AlexPortable, what benefit do you think a heatsink would bring you?
[0:11] <ferdinand> The point is, what are you running on your pi, do you max out the cpu?
[0:11] <AlexPortable> lower temperatures
[0:11] <AlexPortable> just some programs, sometimes program goes havoc and uses 100 cpu
[0:11] * lpotter (~quassel@2001:8003:e172:cb00:ba27:ebff:febb:59b) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] <Habbie> a heat sink will, at best, cause the havoc to do slightly more useless work in the same period of time
[0:13] <AlexPortable> well its probably not useless
[0:13] * jancoow (~jancoow@dhcp-077-251-034-091.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: jancoow)
[0:13] <ferdinand> You will benefit if you're doing something that maxes out the cpu, and it's hitting thermal throttling temperature.
[0:13] <mlelstv> all programs use 100% cpu
[0:13] <AlexPortable> not really
[0:14] <AlexPortable> most programs stay really low and don't cause 100% cpu usage in top
[0:14] <Habbie> at sufficiently high sampling resolution, all programs use 100% cpu
[0:14] <Habbie> all downloads hit 100% of network bandwidth
[0:14] <Habbie> etc.
[0:14] <mlelstv> you cannot use half-a-cpu :)
[0:14] <AlexPortable> mlelstv: according to htop you casn
[0:14] <AlexPortable> can*
[0:14] * dreamon__ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:14] <Habbie> this is both accurate and useless, to be very clear
[0:14] <mlelstv> because you only see averages
[0:15] <AlexPortable> averages 100% cpu usage = high temp
[0:15] <mlelstv> sure. add a fan.
[0:18] <mlelstv> a heatsink alone doesn't help, you need something to dissipate the heat. For a huge heatsink that's air convection, but for a small heatsink you need a fan.
[0:21] * Acelogic (~Acelogic@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[0:21] <Habbie> i'm no expert, but isn't the summary of this 'a fan helps air convection' ?
[0:22] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@2a01cb0401d1720076d02bfffe31b37c.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[0:23] <mlelstv> convection means that the hot air moves up and is replaced by colder air.
[0:23] * __Myst__ (~myst@unaffiliated/--myst--/x-6892207) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:23] <__Myst__> Hi. I'm looking to buy a raspberry pi. when's the best time?
[0:23] <Habbie> __Myst__, the best time is now
[0:23] <mlelstv> myst, right now? :)
[0:23] <Habbie> __Myst__, do you have reason to believe any other time is better?
[0:23] <__Myst__> Habbie: discounts
[0:24] <Habbie> i have never seen useful discounts on the pi in my life
[0:24] <Habbie> the low base price helps, of course
[0:25] <__Myst__> http://amzn.eu/d/1ubeUVE I was looking @ this
[0:25] <mlelstv> the first 3-6 weeks of a new model are more expensive, then the price has been pretty stable.
[0:26] * Oranged0t (~alx@dynamic-78-8-11-244.ssp.dialog.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:27] <__Myst__> have 3-6 weeks passed for the 3b+?
[0:28] <mlelstv> sure
[0:28] <__Myst__> i already own an arduino personally
[0:28] <__Myst__> but i find it too restrictive
[0:28] <__Myst__> i have a few project ideas but they requrie things like webcams etc
[0:29] * Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:29] <__Myst__> do i need anything except the pi + power adapter + sd card with OS ?
[0:29] <mlelstv> the 3b+ starter kits are between EUR56 and EUR63 plus slight variations in shipping cost.
[0:29] <__Myst__> i saw a few listings selling heatsinks
[0:29] * Oranged0t (~alx@dynamic-78-8-11-244.ssp.dialog.net.pl) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:29] <mlelstv> heatsinks look cute
[0:30] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@p5DEE7F5E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:30] <__Myst__> "look cute" usually means "are otherwise uselss"
[0:30] <__Myst__> useless*
[0:30] * Essadon (~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com) Quit (Quit: Qutting)
[0:31] * mave_ (~irc@unaffiliated/mave/x-8614856) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:31] <mlelstv> you need some airflow to cool the chip. A heatsink improves efficiency of cooling a bit (or more if it is large), but without airflow it has little effect.
[0:31] * Gathis (~TheBlack@unaffiliated/gathis) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:31] * mave_ (~irc@unaffiliated/mave/x-8614856) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:31] <__Myst__> does it ever *need* cooling?
[0:32] <__Myst__> assuming i don't start folding proteins
[0:32] <mlelstv> depends on what you think is *need*
[0:32] <mlelstv> it will throttle the cpu when it heats up
[0:32] * Oranged0t (~alx@dynamic-78-8-11-244.ssp.dialog.net.pl) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:32] <__Myst__> on what kind of workload can i expect it to heat?
[0:32] * Hoogvlieger_ (~Hoogvlieg@541A8CEB.cm-5-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:32] <mlelstv> anything that does computations. games, building software, ...
[0:33] <mlelstv> the 3b has the biggest problems. But the 3b+ is much better in this regard.
[0:33] <__Myst__> planning to do stuff with computer vision
[0:34] <mlelstv> The 3b+ will usually throttle from 1.4GHz to 1.2GHz after 10-15 minutes of high load.
[0:34] * Sinnerman (~cobalt@unaffiliated/sinnerman) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:34] <mlelstv> the 3b did throttle from 1.2GHz to 0.6GHz after 1 minute.
[0:34] * Cobalt (~cobalt@unaffiliated/sinnerman) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:34] <__Myst__> that's fine
[0:34] <mlelstv> both in a standard casing similar to what the starter kit has
[0:35] <__Myst__> what about the zero w?
[0:35] <__Myst__> i am planning to use the 3b+ just for prototyping
[0:35] <mlelstv> I don't think it has problems.
[0:35] <mlelstv> the zero has a single core only.
[0:36] <__Myst__> and it has an usb input, right?
[0:36] * Lerch (~lerch@cust-76-72-150-36.static.razzolink.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:36] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@p5DEE7F5E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:36] <mlelstv> it has a otg port
[0:36] * Lerch (~lerch@cust-76-72-150-36.static.razzolink.com) Quit (Client Quit)
[0:36] <mlelstv> so it can act as a usb device instead of a usb host.
[0:36] <mlelstv> the 3b+ cannot
[0:38] * Oranged0t (~alx@dynamic-78-8-11-244.ssp.dialog.net.pl) Quit (Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com)
[0:40] <__Myst__> what does that mean practically?
[0:41] * Oranged0t (~alx@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:41] * patr0clus (~s3nd1v0g1@unaffiliated/patr0clus) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:42] <mlelstv> it cannot act as a device. For example, you can make the rpi0 work like a usb flash drive, but not the rpi3b+
[0:42] * BenGrimm (~yearight@072-190-001-110.res.spectrum.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[0:42] * BenGrimm (~yearight@072-190-001-110.res.spectrum.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:46] <friendofafriend> Yes, bummer, no pin for On The Go on the RPI3B+.
[0:47] <__Myst__> that's cool
[0:47] <__Myst__> thank you v much
[0:50] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:52] * patr0clus is now known as s3nd1v0g1us
[0:54] * saint_ (~saint_@unaffiliated/saint-/x-0540772) Quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…)
[0:55] * tdy (~tdy@unaffiliated/tdy) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:00] * DaCoolCat (~Dr._Cat@h253.156.131.40.static.ip.windstream.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:00] <DaCoolCat> Hello?
[1:00] <DaCoolCat> Test
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[1:04] * finalbeta (~finalbeta@ptr-e2o38d3vamjsb1ezw1f.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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[2:33] <wuzamarine> an OS reinstall fixed the issue. still no clue what happened. some updated turned 3rd party usb off cold.
[2:39] * nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:41] * gotpunk (~gotpunk@2600-6c5e-467f-e614-a5bd-a0aa-abe2-4caf.dhcp6.chtrptr.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:57] <Khaytsus> wuzamarine: I've had a pi shit on a card so hard it corrupted STATIC HTML files. ie: no chance they were being written to..
[2:59] <wuzamarine> Khaytsus: its a little scary, since I'm getting ready to configure an emergency temp control circuit to its gpio. failures like that can be bad.
[3:00] <Khaytsus> Honestly pi's are so unreliable I would not use one for anything critical lik ethat
[3:00] <Khaytsus> I've had an sdcard die in a pi that I'd disabled all writing to it that I could think of
[3:01] <Khaytsus> All logs were tmpfs
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[3:30] * jerryq (~jerryq@ Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[3:31] <DJCHICKEN> Hey
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[7:04] * redstarcomrade (~quassel@cpe-104-175-255-182.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[7:23] * rbh (~rbh@ Quit (Client Quit)
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[7:43] * learningc (~learningc@mti-37-145.tm.net.my) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[7:44] * AlexPortable (uid7568@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vbeawqesptuuxwdj) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[7:54] * gabeio (~gabeio@unaffiliated/gabeio) Quit (Quit: bye.)
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[8:14] * salsanerd (~quassel@okvlon3010w-lp130-04-76-64-206-116.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[8:21] * davr0s (~textual@host86-134-23-214.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:23] * davr0s (~textual@host86-134-23-214.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[8:25] * mnemonic is now known as Guest45630
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[8:43] * davr0s (~textual@host86-134-23-214.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[8:52] * djsxxx_away is now known as Dave_MMP
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[9:50] * g105b (5203939e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[10:11] <Helwar> Hello?
[10:12] <friendofafriend> Hi there, Helwar.
[10:12] <Helwar> hey hi, I came in here and I saw there was a lot of users but noone talking, and it kinda felt weird?
[10:15] <Helwar> Is this the right place to come if I need some help configuring a rpi?
[10:23] * waveform (~waveform@waveform.plus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:25] * High_Priest (~dcabrod@unaffiliated/high-priest/x-8117523) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[10:29] * seventh__ (~seventh__@unaffiliated/seventh--/x-9387472) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:30] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:34] <gordonDrogon> yes, but be patient - lots of people, many sleeping.
[10:35] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:38] <Helwar> I see, thanks :)
[10:42] <Helwar> Well, I'm working on updating a project for my company. We are working with RPis that feed a LED panel. Basically there is somo php/javascript/css code reading pictures and throwing some animations on them (like resizing, spinning, swiping, etc...). Up until now this has worked with Chromium, ina Raspberry 3 with Jessie installed. Recently our company started buying Raspberry 3b+, and Jessie didn't work on those, so we updated t
[10:43] <Helwar> Stretch works under both models. Thing is, now Chromium is super slow. It's like it doesn't have enough juice to move the pictures or show videos
[10:43] <Helwar> It's more of a slideshow than an animation right now...
[10:44] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:45] <Helwar> I've tried "lighter" browsers, and while it was a little bit smoother, the choppyness was still noticeable and the quality of the pictures was very low (I guess it used a different scaling algorithm or whatever...) It looked way too pixelated during the animations
[10:45] * nilz9000_ (nilz9000@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/nilz9000) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:46] <Helwar> Is there some kind of configuration that I am missing? I tried giving more / less ram to the gpu (via de raspi-config menu) but it didn't help either
[10:48] * lpotter (~quassel@2001:8003:e172:cb00:ba27:ebff:febb:59b) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[10:49] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[10:50] * nilz9000_ (nilz9000@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/nilz9000) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:56] <wuzamarine> my user profile is only half half working. most of the bash functions don't exist. https://bpaste.net/show/edbb9a2a0624 I think bashrc is failing to load but I tried various permissions (777 etc) and get the same error
[10:58] <BurtyB> wuzamarine, you wouldn't normally execure .bashrc you can source it (again) though with ". ~/.bashrc" (note the dot)
[11:00] * modano (~modano@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[11:00] <wuzamarine> BurtyB: thank you. now I can see why it was failing to load https://bpaste.net/show/d942d6fc0fb9
[11:02] * whysthatso (~whysthats@49-205-50-195.sta.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:10] <BurtyB> wuzamarine, is your shell actually bash?
[11:10] <wuzamarine> BurtyB: I guess not. I'm trying to figure out what it is and why it fails now.
[11:11] <wuzamarine> I just did a fresh install of the minimal
[11:11] <BurtyB> wuzamarine, shopt is a builtin for bash - what does "echo $SHELL" say?
[11:12] <wuzamarine> BurtyB: /bin/sh
[11:12] * whysthatso (~whysthats@49-205-50-195.sta.estpak.ee) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:13] * whysthatso (~whysthats@dda3-5e10-ad73-9b32-3180-4c83-07d0-2001.sta.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:15] <wuzamarine> BurtyB: my pi user has colors and theup arrow works. all normal. but a created a new user and its profile is junk. I tried to copy the pi's .profile to the new user but that did nothing. What does pi load as a default?
[11:15] <wuzamarine> as a profile
[11:15] * whysthatso (~whysthats@dda3-5e10-ad73-9b32-3180-4c83-07d0-2001.sta.estpak.ee) Quit (Client Quit)
[11:16] <wuzamarine> oops, the pi user is bash
[11:16] * whysthatso (~whysthats@49-205-50-195.sta.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:16] * lpotter (~quassel@2001:8003:e172:cb00:ba27:ebff:febb:59b) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:16] <wuzamarine> so bash is failing to load for the new user
[11:17] * whysthatso (~whysthats@49-205-50-195.sta.estpak.ee) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:17] * whysthatso (~whysthats@49-205-50-195.sta.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:18] * whysthatso (~whysthats@49-205-50-195.sta.estpak.ee) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:18] <gordonDrogon> check /etc/group too - make sure the new user is in the same groups as 'pi' is.
[11:19] * whysthatso (~whysthats@49-205-50-195.sta.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:21] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:26] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[11:29] <wuzamarine> gordonDrogon: added the user to all the same groups as pi. same .profile, same .bashrc. same issue.
[11:31] <wuzamarine> I'm completely logging out via ssh and reconnecting
[11:34] * TheBloke (~TomJ@unaffiliated/tomj) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[11:34] * uriah (~uriahheep@unaffiliated/uriahheep) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[11:35] <wuzamarine> urgggh https://bpaste.net/show/cd9ebc10d76d
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[11:38] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:41] * Alexander-47u (~Alexander@g6172.upc-g.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:42] * Babloyi (~bobr@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:43] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[11:45] <mfa298> wuzamarine: check what's defined as the shell for your new user in /etc/passwd
[11:46] <wuzamarine> mfa298: the shell entry is missing
[11:47] * TheBloke (~TomJ@unaffiliated/tomj) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[11:47] <mfa298> that might explain why you get /bin/sh as the default shell and why you can't use chsh as that user
[11:48] * nilz9000_ (nilz9000@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/nilz9000) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:48] <mfa298> you should be able to fix it as root (maybe sudo chsh -s /bin/bash brads)
[11:49] <wuzamarine> mfa298: that fixed it. thank you!
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[11:57] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
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[11:59] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@2a01cb0401d1720076d02bfffe31b37c.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:00] * lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPE64777d632383-CM64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: Left...)
[12:00] * seventh__ (~seventh__@unaffiliated/seventh--/x-9387472) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[12:02] * TheBloke (~TomJ@unaffiliated/tomj) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[12:04] * TheBloke (~TomJ@unaffiliated/tomj) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[12:07] * kingmanor (~kingmanor@ool-44c06476.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[12:10] * JohnBeales (~johnbeale@dsl-173-206-16-71.tor.primus.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:13] * nighty- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) Quit (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)
[12:16] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[12:21] * Ben64 (~Ben64@unaffiliated/ben64) Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[12:23] * seventh__ (~seventh__@unaffiliated/seventh--/x-9387472) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:24] * Tw|tch (~Snapped@075-177-088-100.res.spectrum.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[12:26] * grummund (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:28] <grummund> Is there something particular about 'update-alternatives' behaviour on raspbian (vs. debian) ?
[12:29] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:30] * Alexander-47u (~Alexander@g6172.upc-g.chello.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[12:32] * wgas (~wgas@unaffiliated/wgas) Quit (Quit: wgas)
[12:34] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@pD9F6950F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[12:36] * BurtyB sees tv via pi tv uhat, streaming over wifi on a pi zero it's only using about 10% cpu :)
[12:36] * High_Priest (~dcabrod@unaffiliated/high-priest/x-8117523) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:39] * Ben64 (~Ben64@unaffiliated/ben64) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:40] <grummund> Neither VISUAL or EDITOR are defined, /usr/bin/editor points to emacs, yet crontab -e uses 'nano', any ideas?
[12:42] * Alexander-47u (~Alexander@ has joined #raspberrypi
[12:44] <H__> smells like a built-in noobs default
[12:45] <grummund> "The -e option is used to edit the current crontab using the editor specified by the VISUAL or EDITOR environment variables. ... If neither of the environment variables is defined, then the default editor /usr/bin/editor is used."
[12:45] * modano (~modano@ has joined #raspberrypi
[12:45] * InverseRhombus (~InverseRh@cpc81087-colc8-2-0-cust27.7-4.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[12:45] <grummund> So the man page is wrong for raspbian? (debian has the specified behaviour)
[12:48] * InverseRhombus (~InverseRh@cpc81087-colc8-2-0-cust27.7-4.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[12:51] <grummund> correction - debian stretch has the same incorrect behaviour, whereas debian and raspbian jessie work as expected.
[12:52] <ferdinand> grummund: check ~/.selected_editor
[12:52] <H__> nice digging there
[12:54] <modano> Any more channels that are relavant to us raspberry pi users? :)
[12:54] <modano> relevamt
[12:54] <modano> relevant*
[12:54] <grummund> ferdinand: thanks.
[12:55] * seventh__ (~seventh__@unaffiliated/seventh--/x-9387472) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[12:55] <Lartza> modano, #electronics? #yourrpidistro(-arm)?
[12:56] <modano> I'll check out electronics!
[12:56] <modano> I'm quite new to irssi, hence the questions.
[12:56] <modano> and freenode
[12:57] * Essadon (~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:00] * Babloyi (~bobr@ has joined #raspberrypi
[13:01] <Lartza> /msg ALIS LIST <searchterm>
[13:01] <Lartza> :)
[13:04] * Cbast (~sfrigon@ has joined #raspberrypi
[13:06] * azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[13:07] * infernix (nix@unaffiliated/infernix) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:07] * sir_guy_carleton (~username@ has joined #raspberrypi
[13:07] <modano> Ah, thanks Lartza
[13:08] * azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:08] <Lartza> That's a freenode specific, useful thingy
[13:08] * lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPE64777d632383-CM64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:09] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:09] * Cbast (~sfrigon@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[13:15] * Rangar (~Rangar@ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[13:16] * cheech (~cheech@ has left #raspberrypi
[13:17] * Tw|tch (~Snapped@075-177-088-100.res.spectrum.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:17] * clemens3 (~clemens@mx.eniso-partners.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[13:19] * clemens3 (~clemens@mx.eniso-partners.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:19] * Dave_MMP is now known as djsxxx_away
[13:27] * kingmanor (~kingmanor@ool-44c06476.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:28] * whysthatso (~whysthats@49-205-50-195.sta.estpak.ee) Quit (Quit: whysthatso)
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[13:29] * whysthatso (~whysthats@49-205-50-195.sta.estpak.ee) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:33] * modano (~modano@ Quit (Quit: 6)
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[13:38] * dadada (~tobgle@ Quit (Quit: leaving)
[13:42] <grummund> modano: #raspian
[13:42] <grummund> modano: #raspbian
[13:43] <Lartza> That's what I said ;)
[13:43] * seventh__ (~seventh__@unaffiliated/seventh--/x-9387472) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:43] <grummund> ugh?... missed that.
[13:44] * Pitel (~pitel@fw2o.masterinter.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:45] <Lartza> "#yourrpidistro(-arm)?" :P
[13:45] * kpmhughes (~textual@ has joined #raspberrypi
[13:47] * nighty- (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:51] * kpmhughes (~textual@ Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[13:53] * Encrypt (~Encrypt@2a01cb0401d1720076d02bfffe31b37c.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Quit: Quit)
[13:54] * nyov is now known as Guest65835
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[13:58] <Alina-malina> is it possible to fully boot from SSD/HDD on rpi3modelb+?
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[14:02] <ferdinand> yes, although some hdd are too slow for the boot timeout
[14:02] <shiftplusone> depends on the SSD/HDD
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[14:08] <Alina-malina> well, i have SSD drives actually
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[14:09] <Alina-malina> also i found a 4GB SD card, so i might make something out of it
[14:09] <Alina-malina> not sure how though
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[14:10] <Alina-malina> and the speed on SD card says 4
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[15:08] <iodev> Alina-malina: that's a class 4 SD card
[15:08] <iodev> it's pretty much worthless
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[15:08] <iodev> forget about it, you need a class 10 for the Pi
[15:08] <iodev> I didn't want to risk, so I got myself the NOOBS card and reformated it with Raspbian Lite :D
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[15:11] <Alina-malina> oh
[15:11] <Alina-malina> so 4class not worth to work with? thats bad
[15:11] <shiftplusone> even class isn't the recommended rating anymore. A1
[15:11] <shiftplusone> *class 10 isn't....
[15:12] <iodev> Alina-malina: class 4 is okay for taking pictures and that's just about it
[15:12] <shiftplusone> those class ratings don't tell you much about real world random read/write performance, so you can try it out an see if it's good enough for your use case.
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[15:12] <Alina-malina> well i need it just for booting. the filesystem will be hosted on HDD
[15:12] <Alina-malina> USB->HDD
[15:12] <Alina-malina> i mean SSD
[15:12] <Alina-malina> lol
[15:13] <shiftplusone> *A1 are the ones to go for nowadays. I don't seem to be able to type today.
[15:13] <Alina-malina> ok shiftplusone thanks, and h-ha-ha-have an A1 day ;)
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[15:14] <shiftplusone> >_<
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[15:17] <iodev> shiftplusone: I have a Sandisk Edge
[15:17] <iodev> sold by Pimoroni for the Pi (with NOOBS on it, but I wiped it)
[15:17] <iodev> I can't find it online, but I think it's A1
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[15:22] <iodev> alright, Alina-malina
[15:22] <iodev> I've unplugged my Pi, done the check
[15:22] <iodev> and I found out it's A1 and UHS-1
[15:22] <iodev> https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/noobs-16gb-microsd-card
[15:22] <Alina-malina> and?
[15:22] <iodev> ^ I recommend this
[15:22] <iodev> it's cheap 9 pounds for A1
[15:27] <Alina-malina> https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/SanDisk-Ultra-16-32-64-128-Micro-SD-MicroSD-MicroSDHC-UHS-I/32839722683.html
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[15:36] <ferdinand> Alina-malina: I would give booting from SSD a try, if that's what you want anyway.
[15:36] * TheNavyBear (~TheNavyBe@unaffiliated/thenavybear) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[15:36] <Alina-malina> ferdinand, yes working on that want to boot from sd card class 4 and the rest move to SSD and see how it might work, if its slow, then i will get a 10class or a1day class sdcarda
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[15:37] <ferdinand> 3b+ can boot directly from ssd most of the time, as shift_plusone said, it depends on the hardware.
[15:38] <Alina-malina> oh really?
[15:39] <ferdinand> 3b+ is configured out of the box to boot from usb or netboot
[15:39] <mfa298> Alina-malina: the Pi3B+ supports USB booting, some hard drives or usb/sata things have issues (which is what shiftplusone probably meant)
[15:40] <mfa298> so try with just the hdd/ssd first. then if it doesn't work I think you can just put the bootcode.bin on the sd card and everything else on the hdd/ssd
[15:40] * nilz9000 (~nilz9000@aftr-37-201-193-146.unity-media.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[15:40] <Alina-malina> oh, so is there any tutorial on this? or its standart nand-sata-install?
[15:41] <mfa298> there's a page (or two) on the raspberry site about usb booting.
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[15:41] <mfa298> it's alsmost as if the rpf/rpt folks actually write documentation :p
[15:42] <mfa298> you can also configure the Pi3 to work in a similar way so there should be plenty of other docs around about it.
[15:43] * comptroller (~comptroll@47-213-222-253.paolcmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
[15:44] <ferdinand> I expect if you write NOOBS or the distro of your choice to the SSD (with etcher) it will boot.
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[15:53] <shauno> that's pretty much all I did
[15:54] <shauno> afiak it's just the same deal as with an sdcard; boot has to be fat, has to be the first partition, everything past that is just having your cmdline correct
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[16:01] <iodev> Alina-malina: well, if you wanna aliexpress it, nobody can stop you
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[16:01] <Alina-malina> Lol
[16:01] <iodev> but I find it dangerous to buy gtom hinese
[16:01] <iodev> * from chinese
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[16:02] <iodev> No way, don't buy it for 300 RUB
[16:02] <iodev> it's too cheap to be real sandisk, it's fake 100%, Alina-malina
[16:02] <iodev> LOL! :D
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[16:03] <DrunkenDwarf> Hi all. can someone help me setting up an access point (wifi) with Pi 3b+ on strech using hostapd? Its the reason ive been keeping to Jessie until now, but the 3B+ put a wrench in that. Ive set i hostapd as in: https://somesquares.org/blog/2017/10/Raspberry-Pi-router/ and when I run hostapd i get "Failed to create interface mon.wlan0: -95 (Operation not supported). wlan0: could not connect to kernel driver"
[16:04] <larsks> I don't know. Amazon was just selling Samsung Evo 32GB cards for $6.99. Cards are cheap these days.
[16:04] <iodev> larsks: better spend more than it's worth
[16:04] <iodev> than end up with an unreliable chinese clone, that is my philosophy
[16:05] <Alina-malina> everything is made in china nowadays
[16:05] <iodev> I refuse to be a cheapskate, quality over price
[16:05] <larsks> I wasn't talking about unreliable chinese clones, I was talking brand name cards :).
[16:05] <iodev> agreed, but it depends exactly in which factory
[16:05] <iodev> larsks: amazon can sell you fakes too
[16:05] <Alina-malina> i have like few of those fake sandisks and they doing pretty well many years lol
[16:05] <Alina-malina> i dont really care
[16:05] <larsks> iodev: sure, but they didn't! :)
[16:05] <iodev> I go out of my way to buy absolutely original
[16:06] <iodev> checking even the last detail of the font, I always want absolute original.
[16:06] <Alina-malina> how u know the one that u point are not fake or made somewhere in basement of some old chinese grandpa?
[16:06] <iodev> Alina-malina: well, if it were fake, then it wouldn't be sold by an official reseller
[16:07] <iodev> chain-of-supply
[16:07] <Alina-malina> also read reviews iodev there are tons of people that say its original, since it can pass the verification code
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[16:07] <Alina-malina> and i dont think sandisk are that high brand, its just sd card
[16:07] <iodev> to each his own ... I have my methods, you have yours
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[16:08] <iodev> larsks: I usually don't buy on Amazon
[16:08] <iodev> I like to only buy from the site of the official manufacturer
[16:08] <larsks> Your loss, man.
[16:09] <iodev> if that company has good reviews and selling on amazon, yes, okay
[16:09] <iodev> but if other company is selling their product ... then, shady and no deal
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[16:26] <torchinz> Hi. I had setup pihole on my raspberry pi via ethernet cable. It works great. But the problem is, I somehow cannot connect it directly to wifi. (Beginner here).
[16:27] <DJCHICKEN> Pi model ?
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[16:31] <DJCHICKEN> Do you have a pi 3?
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[16:32] <Khaytsus> And what do you mean by "connect it to wifi", the pi itself, regardless of pihole etc
[16:32] <torchinz> Done. Thanks :)
[16:33] <DJCHICKEN> Ok
[16:33] <torchinz> actually, I had installed and worked my pi-hole setup without setting up the wifi on the pi 3
[16:33] <DJCHICKEN> GG
[16:33] <Khaytsus> I like the idea of pihole but it makes my network unreliable so I gave up on it
[16:34] <Khaytsus> dnsmasq or wahtever it is randomly stops working
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[16:38] <modano> hmm, I have noticed that it kinda messes with the live feed on instagram. Other than that I am very pleased with PiHole.
[16:38] <modano> ah sorry, I missed the context of connecting it with wifi.
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[16:58] <Khaytsus> wifi or ethernet, shouldn't matter. it's just a DNS blackhole.
[16:58] <Khaytsus> It's not like there's much data
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[17:51] <Smithe> What's the best partition table for an hard disk connectet to a raspberry through usb/sata interface?
[17:52] * Alexander-47u (~Alexander@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:53] <Khaytsus> gpt or mbr should all be the saame...
[17:53] <Khaytsus> why?
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[17:54] <mfa298> if it's a hard disk your booting from I think it needs to be MBR otherwise the BROM can't find the partitions
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[18:14] <Smithe> Khaytsus, mfa298 no it won't boot from here, it's only an hard disk for files
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[18:14] <Khaytsus> plug it in, fdisk on the pi
[18:14] <Khaytsus> Why worry about it
[18:14] <Smithe> Khaytsus, fdisk would create a mbr partition
[18:15] <Smithe> table
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[18:19] <Khaytsus> ...so?
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[18:29] <iodev> hmm, this makes me wonder, how does the Pi boot?
[18:30] <iodev> does it read 446 bytes (like BIOS booting from MBR)
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[18:30] <iodev> or does it read a file, or does it go straight to the kernel?
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[18:32] <larsks> iodev: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bootmodes/bootflow.md
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[18:41] <eia1x> Hello, I would like to know how to best execute an application I made in C # (by Visual Studio) on my RaspPi. Tks! :)
[18:42] <shiftplusone> Look into mono
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[18:44] <eia1x> shiftplusone: Okk! I use this supervisory application to communicate with an interface via Modbus, does it have any secrets to config it?
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[18:46] <shiftplusone> absolutely no idea
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[18:48] <iodev> eia1x: you mean .NET Core
[18:48] <iodev> yeah, I'm familiar with that, I know ASP.NET MVC which is 85% compatible with .NET Core (was a windows developer for soooo long ...)
[18:49] <iodev> what you want is to Publish the app, to a local folder, eia1x
[18:49] <iodev> the app/site (both are really the same)
[18:49] <iodev> and make sure to set it to Deployment mode standalone, Platform Linux, and CPU type ARM
[18:49] <iodev> then you can scp-it to the Pi and run it, eia1x
[18:51] <iodev> be right back
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[18:56] <eia1x> Ohh nice! Would you get some tutorial that can shed light on how to do this step-by-step? I'm waiting for my Rasp to arrive from the post office yet and I've never worked with it before, heheh
[18:56] <eia1x> iodev
[18:57] <iodev> eia1x: I can show you how to deploy the app with TeamViewer
[18:57] <iodev> the Pi is mostly plug and play
[19:00] <Smithe> How can I generate extra/uname_string and extra/uname_string7 in the raspberrypi-firmware source package?
[19:00] <eia1x> It sounds very interesting iodev! I worked a little with Arduino and I was always curious to learn how to use these platforms
[19:00] <iodev> eia1x: well, do you know Linux
[19:00] <iodev> because what I like to do is wipe the NOOBS off the SD card
[19:00] <shiftplusone> Smithe: a bit more context?
[19:00] <iodev> and replace it with Raspbian lite
[19:01] <iodev> no desktop, nothing, just SSH
[19:01] <Smithe> shiftplusone, I'm trying to build a raspberrypi-firmware dpkg package on my own
[19:02] <Smithe> And I haven't get how can I generate this file
[19:02] <shiftplusone> It's pulled from here https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/extra
[19:02] <Smithe> oh
[19:02] <shiftplusone> pretty much the whole thing is. It's not a real source package
[19:03] <Smithe> Yeah, I've noticed it
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[19:05] <eia1x> iodev: 0 Core for VS support. But if it can run on Linux, great! I'm using Linux here (running IRC through irssi)
[19:05] <eia1x> urgh
[19:05] <iodev> eia1x I use weechat on my arch linux
[19:06] <iodev> eia1x: no, you can't run Visual Studio on the Pi
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[19:06] <eia1x> The package I got comes with a written Raspbian + Kodi SD in dual boot, I even thought of installing the Win10 Core for VS support. But if it can run on Linux, great! I'm using Linux here (running IRC through irssi)
[19:06] <iodev> no, you do not need Windows 10 IoT
[19:06] <eia1x> My english is by Google Translate, my bad :(
[19:07] <iodev> I am not sure that windoze is even supported by Raspberry Pi model 3 B+
[19:11] <Smithe> thx shiftplusone I've found what I need for that
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[19:45] <Alina-malina> also i am wondering if it is possible to make a multiboot system on rpimodel3b+? like how i am going to switch between OSes with ssh?
[19:46] <Khaytsus> Why would you ever need to do that
[19:47] <Alina-malina> why not?
[19:47] <Alina-malina> so like to split the SSD into parts and choose the system to boot
[19:47] <Alina-malina> like archlinuxarm or retropie or w.e.
[19:47] <Alina-malina> and mount their filesystems to SSD
[19:47] <Alina-malina> so i have more space
[19:48] <Alina-malina> touse 1 ssd card with multiple OSes
[19:48] <Alina-malina> lol
[19:48] <Alina-malina> also i am wondering if there is some kali alike thing like parrotOS but for rpi
[19:48] <Khaytsus> I'm sure you could kludge up something with grub
[19:48] <Alina-malina> i just order 3 of those SD cards that u hate iodev lol, hopefully they are good lolo
[19:49] <Alina-malina> hmmm
[19:49] <Alina-malina> yes
[19:49] <Alina-malina> i guess so, i have a 14 inch display, so i am working on it to connect to my rpi3 and put all that stuff into plexiglass and make it working station for me
[19:49] <Alina-malina> but i guess i would need multibooting there
[19:49] <Alina-malina> that is awesome
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[19:55] <Alina-malina> does anyone implement or have used rpi as a voice changer, like real human voice not some dart voice from startwars?
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[20:05] <audiopath> Alina-malina, what do you mean, voice changer? some modulation?
[20:05] <Alina-malina> audiopath, like m->f and f->m
[20:06] <Alina-malina> audiopath,
[20:06] <Alina-malina> there are some software like morphvox etc
[20:06] <audiopath> that would be some pitch modulation, or better some detuning
[20:07] <Alina-malina> i am not sure whatthat means, do i need some additional hardware for that?
[20:07] <Alina-malina> or its can be done on software level?
[20:07] <audiopath> there are some tuners for jack
[20:07] <Alina-malina> oh that boards?
[20:08] <Alina-malina> i think those are crap, i saw on youtube their reviews
[20:08] <audiopath> software tuners for jackd
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[20:08] <Alina-malina> hmmm
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[20:08] <Alina-malina> any examples?
[20:09] <audiopath> but making male to female or other way around doesnt work really good because they are not meant for that, only slight corrections
[20:09] <audiopath> you could try though...
[20:09] <audiopath> i have to look it up
[20:10] <Alina-malina> ok thanks audiopath i apreciate that
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[20:11] <audiopath> Alina-malina, zita-at1 for example, but as i said, it explicitly says in the manual: "normally used to correct the pitch of a voice singing (slightly)". i'd try that one out or search for another autotuner
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[20:12] <Alina-malina> alright thanks audiopath
[20:12] <audiopath> np
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[20:40] <Snert_> Got a brand new pi3b+ and latest raspbian and all up to date.
[20:40] <Snert_> the pi is talking to icanhazip.com every 5 minutes.
[20:40] <Snert_> What package installed this?
[20:41] <Snert_> how can I get rid of it?
[20:41] <Snert_> I have no for the pi to be trying to determine my network outside public address.
[20:41] <Snert_> .... every 5 minutes.
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> I would do find / -print0|xargs -0 grep icanhaz
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> there are probably better ways
[20:42] <Habbie> 'grep -r icanhaz /' comes to mind as slightly better
[20:42] <Habbie> but i'd also start there
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> indeed
[20:42] <Habbie> meanwhile, look at crons
[20:43] <Snert_> thx. I'll look at those things.
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[20:55] <shbrngdo> Snert_ - that sounds pretty bad, actually
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[20:58] <Snert_> I have 2 pi doing this. Bith are new...fresh raspbian and up2date.
[20:58] <Snert_> seems like it's part of VPN software or something.
[20:58] <Snert_> something thinks it needs to know my homenet outside addy....every 5 minutes.
[21:00] <Snert_> I doubt it's a compromised pi or OS.
[21:00] <shbrngdo> from 3 years ago, this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/38hcf0/possible_virus_infection/
[21:00] <shbrngdo> there are windows malware infections that query that server. also (apparently) a firefox plugin does it
[21:01] <shbrngdo> they didn't say which ones, though.
[21:01] <Snert_> ok
[21:01] <shbrngdo> but there are hints in that which suggest how to find the culprit. I suggest using wireshark in combination with frequent 'netstat' or it's stupid replacement (whatever it might be) to catch it in the act, maybe a background script.
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[21:02] <shbrngdo> you could try and catch it on the DNS lookup
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[21:02] <shbrngdo> if you deliberately re-directed it to localhost, and then listened for the transaction with 'nc' you'd hae enough time to catch it in the act
[21:03] <shbrngdo> so yeah set up a trap for it, wait for the connect attempt, and then spit out the info
[21:03] <Snert_> dmsmasq pihole catches it - that's how I saw it. Have added it to the pihole blacklist too.
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[21:04] <shbrngdo> if you can figure it out I'd ask you post it back here. something like that could affect open source on POSIX systems 'at large'
[21:04] <Snert_> I think it's legit...I just have no need for it.
[21:04] <shbrngdo> right, but I'd like to know what it is so I can boycott it and flame the devs for doing that
[21:05] <shbrngdo> acting like a virus/trojan/malware is unacceptable, especially for FOSS
[21:05] <Snert_> Depends on what the reasoning was, but I agree.
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[21:05] <shbrngdo> and I'm sure the operator of 'icanhazip.com' doesn't need the extra bandwidth
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[21:06] <Snert_> I bet everyone's pi is doing this
[21:06] <shbrngdo> well I'm running FBSD 12 so mine isn't. heh.
[21:07] <shbrngdo> it's probably some bundled-with package that's responsible. I'd have something to say about that to the raspbian devs, directly
[21:07] <shbrngdo> that's because schtuff like this can *easily* be used as 'phone home'-ware
[21:07] <shbrngdo> "who has an RPi connected to 'teh intarwebs' at the moment" - like that
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[21:08] <shbrngdo> your public IP address is first discovered, then reported somewhere, without your knowledge
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[21:08] <Snert_> I'm gonna do another fresh SD card...no update...and see if it still does it.
[21:09] <shbrngdo> I'll check back for that. thanks.
[21:09] <Snert_> then update and see if it still does it.
[21:09] <taza> Did you know your computer is broadcasting an IP address?
[21:09] <taza> Hackers can use it to turn your computer into a toaster!
[21:09] <shbrngdo> yeah black helicopters are watching for toasters, too
[21:09] <shbrngdo> heh
[21:09] <Snert_> OMG....you mean I'm exposed all the time when I surf the internet?
[21:09] <Snert_> lol
[21:10] <shbrngdo> seriously, though, the possibility that raspbian has "tracking-ware" in it, especially if they don't know about it, is disturbing
[21:10] <taza> More likely it's just a kinda lazy by-default vpn config.
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[21:10] <taza> Snert_ yours the foundation image or the Raspbian startup image?
[21:10] <Snert_> Well, there's REALvnc .... which has a scary license agreement that ships with raspbian.
[21:10] <Snert_> taza: yep
[21:10] <taza> Which
[21:11] <shbrngdo> right, or some kind of discovery service that should only run when DHCP gets an new IP address [if at all]. maybe the network manager does it. i always shut that off in every GUI I use
[21:11] <Snert_> I ditch realvnc immediately and put on tightvnc
[21:11] <shbrngdo> actually tightvnc isn't supported any more. I suggest tigervnc instead. forked from tightvnc as I recall.
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[21:11] <Snert_> ok.
[21:11] <taza> ... you do realize that you deliberately downloaded the image which has preconfigured software for educational use instead of the one meant for servers, right?
[21:11] <shbrngdo> it supports using GL extensions that break certain things
[21:12] <shbrngdo> er, break things when it's NOT there I mean
[21:12] <taza> This problem is listed firmly as PEBKAC
[21:12] <shbrngdo> yeah there are just certain expectations everyone should have regarding software and operating systems. being up-front about spying and extra network activity is one of those.
[21:12] <Snert_> taza: yep..I'm go with the server version. Just not initially until I get things down.
[21:13] <taza> Snert_ then this isn't a problem.
[21:13] <Snert_> nope, never said it was....just don't like it is all.
[21:13] <shbrngdo> I'd still want to know what's doing it, so I can create a bitch-storm
[21:13] <taza> shbrngdo You have certain expectations. Your expectations are not reasonable and have been disregarded.
[21:13] <shbrngdo> ...
[21:13] <Snert_> for whatever reason, I consider it to be "normal" since it's raspbian from the foundation.
[21:14] <taza> The default image is meant for a specific use case. This means compromises. If you don't want all that, get an image that is compromise-free.
[21:14] <shbrngdo> the foundation shouldn't be spying, either. the fix would be to get the debian or raspbian people to patch it out of existence before packaging. OR, create such a public outcry that they're forced to remove it
[21:14] <taza> Obviously it's more work for you, but hey, then you have to make a compromise between your time and ideals.
[21:15] <shbrngdo> taza - that kind of thinking justifies the spywar/adware in Win-10-nic, the spying that USED to be in Ubuntu's search, etc.
[21:15] <shbrngdo> so I won't go there
[21:15] <taza> Your viewpoint was considered and explicitly rejected in 2012.
[21:15] * shbrngdo thinks: troll
[21:16] <taza> Because it turns out you're not the only one thinking that. The answer is Raspberry Pi is for educational use first.
[21:16] <Snert_> all this fonehome shit pisses me off.
[21:16] <taza> The ones from back that era were a lot more wary about the blackbox firmware, though.
[21:16] <shbrngdo> Snert_ - yes. it should piss you off
[21:16] <taza> And then there's the annoyance about the Firefox extensions and the proprietary educational software in the default image.
[21:16] <Snert_> pihole put the binders on my vizio TV that tattles about what I'm watching.
[21:17] <shbrngdo> Snert_ - firefox extensions are a likely _cause_ of this. you might check if it only happens with a firefox process running.
[21:17] * Very_slow (~Very_slow@CPEc412f5da6ef1-CM84948c4b03d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:17] <Snert_> I haven't installed firefox.
[21:17] <Snert_> only browser is the default chromium
[21:17] <taza> The RPi is not spying on you, it's merely acquiring data you need to have a preconfigured service. You can skip all that by installing the right image for your use case.
[21:17] <shbrngdo> Snert_ - yeah I don't think I'll ever buy a 'smart' TV _and_ connect it to 'teh intarwebs'
[21:18] <shbrngdo> taza: ...
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[21:18] <shbrngdo> seriously, you buy into that justification?
[21:18] <taza> Ain't the foundation's job to fix you being lazy.
[21:18] * DJCHICKEN (~DJCHICKEN@ Quit (Client Quit)
[21:19] <shbrngdo> I heard less provocative justifications for this sort of thing on Micro-shaft forums, during the Win-10-nic 'insider' program prior to its release.
[21:19] * aydio (~adem@unaffiliated/aydio) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:19] <Snert_> fuck them...they will not be happy until they can reach out and touch wyou with ads no matter what you're doing or where you are.
[21:20] <taza> I'm less trying to be provocative and more to be explicit about the fact that software freedom and ideological purity were considered and discarded in favor of making the Raspberry Pi easier to use for its intended audience.
[21:20] <shbrngdo> Snert_ - yes. that is the attitude you SHOULD have in response to this [insert profanity here]
[21:20] <waveform> keep the language clean, please, everyone
[21:20] <shbrngdo> taza - read: the ends justify the means, because we want to exploit you
[21:21] * Toadisattva (~Toadisatt@gateway/tor-sasl/toadisattva) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:21] <taza> You cannot run Raspberry Pi only on FOSS software as a result either, and that was deemed acceptable six years ago. By now, to change that, you need a new project.
[21:21] <shbrngdo> waveform - it's funnier when you do it my way - [profanity] yeah!
[21:21] <shbrngdo> heh
[21:22] * Toadisattva (~Toadisatt@gateway/tor-sasl/toadisattva) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:22] <shbrngdo> taza - I do not believe that the video core is responsible for this. If it were, I'd be seeing it, too
[21:22] * defsdoor (~Andrew@cpc120600-sutt6-2-0-cust232.19-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:22] <taza> You can draw your arbitrary line in the sand wherever you choose and that will not change the facts of the matter.
[21:22] <shbrngdo> however, if I'm simply using an _older_ video core, it might...
[21:23] <taza> The facts of the matter being that nobody really cares and caring isn't conductive to the actual goal of the project.
[21:23] <Snert_> the sheeple go along with anything
[21:23] <shbrngdo> taza - well, at least two people in this discussion 'care'. Myself, and Snert_.
[21:23] <taza> May I recommend you pitch the idea of custom hardware to the HURD project?
[21:24] <shbrngdo> saying 'nobody really cares' is an attempt to render our arguments irrelevant, as if we're outside frings. It's a subtle ad hominem attack.
[21:24] <shbrngdo> er, fringers
[21:24] * aydio (~adem@unaffiliated/aydio) Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[21:24] <taza> Have a not-subtle one: People like you never meaningfully contribute in ways that actually benefit the project.
[21:24] * TxRaspPI1 (~TxRaspPI@2601:2c4:c400:3a50:bd7e:4540:c1a:8481) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[21:25] <shbrngdo> you mean like porting wirignPi to FreeBSD? That's a work in progress. I need to get user-space interrupts working, first.
[21:25] <shbrngdo> I suppose _THAT_ might be a 'meaningful' contribution... that and fixing SPI, and getting PWM to work, on RPi
[21:26] <Khaytsus> HURD.. kek
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[21:26] <taza> And I'm beginning to be un-subtly reminded why I quit. I shall place you on my ignore list now, to avoid me replying to you further disrupting the channel.
[21:26] <shbrngdo> heh - ok. you "win"
[21:26] * D0c70rWh0 (~D0c70rWh0@gateway/tor-sasl/d0c70rwh0) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[21:27] <shbrngdo> I wasn't even being personally abusive. I guess actually getting some resistance/opposition gets you an 'ignore'
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[21:27] <Snert_> these days....disagree with someone and even politely say rtfm ... and you be a troll.
[21:28] <Khaytsus> Pissing match on aisle 5
[21:28] <shbrngdo> I thought it was a relevant discussion, too.
[21:28] <shbrngdo> you never get 'calm' when you really care about something. Point/counterpoint. avoid getting personal and making generalizations, and it can be mutually edifying.
[21:29] <taza> Khaytsus I'd just get drawn into it and it never goes anywhere. I'll use ignore the moment I think there's a way to win here, because that's always wrong.
[21:29] <shbrngdo> I only use ignore against obvious trolling.
[21:30] <Snert_> how minimal is the minimal raspbian? I want a gui and VNC and etherape ... just not all the eduware.
[21:30] <shbrngdo> see, taza, you have the opportunity to convince me you're right. give me a point that isn't a generalization, or subtly 'getting personal', that justifies 'the foundation' (if it is them) tracking you if it's a "for education" OS
[21:30] * akk (~akk@97-123-90-36.albq.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:31] <shbrngdo> Snert_ - from what I read, the missing piece on the non-education version is some math package, which makes the images 700M smaller from what I remember/read
[21:31] <taza> It's so easy to slip into bad FOSS habits again and turn into the snippiest bastard but honestly I've got enough good uses for my time I don't need bad ones.
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[21:31] <Snert_> shbrngdo: yea, that wolfram stuff.
[21:31] <shbrngdo> if that's responsible you should see a process running all of the time
[21:32] <Khaytsus> I don't think minimal has a gui by default.. you could install it
[21:32] <taza> Snert_ it's very minimal. You gotta install the packages you want yourself. But it also avoids the various unwanted stuff the eduversion has.
[21:32] * Fulgen (~Fulgen@078132096195.public.t-mobile.at) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:32] <shbrngdo> you could do one of the dpkg commands to see what package a particular program is part of
[21:32] <shbrngdo> I forget which one it is - maybe dpkg query with some specific parameter. i just remember doing it
[21:32] <waveform> shbrngdo, Mathematica's what you're thinking of but I think it's gone as of fairly recently (the contract with Wolfram ran out)
[21:33] <shbrngdo> waveform - yes, that one. apparently for a specific 'education' version it's actually still there...
[21:33] <Khaytsus> waveform: that's not true
[21:33] <shbrngdo> lemme find the article - I remember seeing it on 'The Register'
[21:34] <shbrngdo> hmm... apparently needs sudo apt-get install now to get it - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/17/raspberry_pi_loses_mathematica/
[21:34] <shbrngdo> so "not bundled" then...
[21:35] <shbrngdo> in any case I'm still interested in what is hitting 'icanhazip.com' all of the time. it's a waste of bandwidth if nothing else, and it can cost the server operator at icanhazip.com quite a bit of money, depending...
[21:35] <shbrngdo> I know _I_ have to pay for bandwidth overages
[21:35] <waveform> ah, interesting to see Wolfram's still shipping a pi-version - I'd missed that bit
[21:36] <shbrngdo> why I found the article - to clear up any misconceptions [including my own]
[21:36] <waveform> ta
[21:36] <shbrngdo> see taza - when faced with actual facts, I'm willing to change my position
[21:36] <shbrngdo> (ok shutting up now, heh)
[21:38] * cave (~various@h081217094244.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:38] <Snert_> curl icanhazip.com does return my correct outside public addy, as it should...so I spose it could just be just a cron job doing the curl command.
[21:39] <shbrngdo> you can monitor that. I am pretty sure cron will log everything it does.
[21:40] <shbrngdo> looks like you need to specify the right log level with the '-L' parameter on cron when you start it...
[21:41] <shbrngdo> so then you could have it log the start of every job, for example, and it'd be in the log
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[21:44] <Snert_> CRON[29404]: (root) CMD (/root/update_motd.sh) <-- the only cron job I have. pi user has no cron jobs. root has only this 1 cron job
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[21:45] <Snert_> I'll watch it abit more.
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[21:51] <Snert_> if I do a minimal install of raspbian, how much do I have to add in order to get a gui that can run etherape and VNC? Like... 2 or 3 packages...or a whole slew of packages?
[21:52] <Lartza> Snert_, A slew
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[21:56] <shbrngdo> Snert_ - lxde desktop is probably one of them, as well as the X server if you need to use the HDMI video
[21:56] <shbrngdo> Snert_ - then you can install whatever gui packages you need one at a time. I'd start with pluma and mate-terminal and go from there
[21:57] <shbrngdo> they'll haul in their dependencies, which should cover most things using gtk
[21:57] <waveform> and perhaps GTK and/or Qt depending on the application ;either way I'd not be surprised to see 50+ packages the first time you try and pull in a GUI application
[21:57] <shbrngdo> ack - gtk is pretty bad, with cairo and bonobo and a few other things i can't recall at the moment
[21:58] <Snert_> yea tons of fonts I never use.
[21:58] <shbrngdo> cairo is like that, yeah. it's bloatware.
[21:58] <shbrngdo> I looked at making use of it directly. once.
[21:59] <Snert_> Sounds easy...I'll give it a try. Can always pop the old card back in when I get tired of it for the evening and take it up again the next night.
[21:59] * ExtraCrispy (~ExtraCris@gateway/tor-sasl/extracrispy) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:59] <shbrngdo> the concept is actually good, form a 'windows GDI' sort-of-like layer that's common for display, printing, yotta yotta
[22:00] <shbrngdo> Snert_ - often I'll just make a dd backup of one, then overwrite with a different one whenever I wanna test something. going back is easy enough.
[22:01] <shbrngdo> oh and with systemd, you'll have to enable the 'multi-user' if you want to start up in a console, not in the GUI. that's what I do.
[22:01] <shbrngdo> there should be a lot of on-line instructions on doing that. then use 'startx' as before
[22:02] <shbrngdo> you can also use that to keep the X server from running, and then run tightvnc/tigervnc's server instead
[22:02] <Snert_> sounds like an adventure...should be easy enuff. Just haven't ever done it b4.
[22:03] <shbrngdo> there's also the 'remote X11' option - export DISPLAY=hostname:0.0 enable connect with xhost +pi-name on the X server machine 'hostname', and then just run the GUI application - display and input will be on 'hostname's X desktop
[22:03] * shbrngdo LOVES that feature of X11
[22:05] <Snert_> I did X-11 once...was fun. The concept of the display being just an ip addy from the pi point of view is cool.
[22:05] <shbrngdo> yes - and it's something 'Wayland' can *NOT* do [last I checked] - a reason NOT to use it!
[22:05] <shbrngdo> so yeah if you're using Wayland on your desktop, like certain ubuntu releases, expect it NOT to work
[22:05] <Snert_> bandwidth intensive, but heck got gigabit all over the homenet anyways.
[22:06] <shbrngdo> yeah nowadays it's not a problem if it's not going over the Intarwebs. but I've tried it over the intarwebs, and it was 'acceptable' for some things
[22:07] <shbrngdo> I used an ssh tunnel from $work at the time, maybe 10 years ago
[22:07] <shbrngdo> wanted to see if I could
[22:07] <shbrngdo> I discovered that VNC might be more effective, though. I settled on a VNC tunnel instead.
[22:08] <shbrngdo> that let me get to personal e-mail or to surf the web from my home LAN machine if I needed it. That and connect up to my large repo of things I've done over the years, for "how did I do that again" code snippets
[22:09] * shbrngdo points out that surfing the web THAT way eliminates the DNS 'MITM' problem with many corporate firewall appliances
[22:09] * sdoherty (sdoherty@nat/redhat/x-mizzvihdgpejumpp) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:10] * shbrngdo goes off into project-land
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[22:23] * algrym (186068c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[22:24] <algrym> Hey all ... I've got a "what am I missing?" situation with a new Pi Zero W.
[22:25] <algrym> So, bought a new Pi Zero W for the projects ...
[22:25] * anym0us3 (~Any@unaffiliated/anym0us3) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:25] <algrym> I installed the October 2018 Raspbian image on an SD card ... (tested this in a RPi3, boots fine.)
[22:26] <algrym> Plugged all the bits into my new zero ... and nothing on the screen.
[22:27] <algrym> I confirmed that almost all the same parts boot a RPi3...
[22:27] <algrym> I couldn't test the mini-hdmi and mini-usb adapters, but everything else works on the RPi3.
[22:28] <algrym> Nothing from the PiZero. Won't even initialize the HDMI.
[22:28] <algrym> I tried putting some aggressive HDMI settings in /boot/config.txt ... no joy. Same settings work on the RPi3.
[22:28] * phiofx (~philippos@ Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[22:28] <algrym> Any ideas?
[22:29] <algrym> Oh yeah ... I did the stuff to build a headless raspbian install too ... worked fine on the pi3, nothing on the zero.
[22:29] <Lartza> algrym, Does the activity led light up?
[22:30] <algrym> Never.
[22:30] <algrym> I'm starting to think I have a busted zero.
[22:31] <Lartza> Tried with just power and SD?
[22:31] * aydio (~adem@unaffiliated/aydio) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:31] * Nekiruy (~Nekiruy@ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[22:32] <Lartza> Wait, what mini-usb adapter?
[22:32] <algrym> Yep. I removed parts one at a time (keyboard, hdmi, etc.) until nothing was left but power and SD ... still no activity from the zero.
[22:32] <algrym> Mini-usb to keyboard adapter. Tried it with and without.
[22:32] <Lartza> Oh right for the
[22:32] <Lartza> micro not mini :) I assume power is connected to the correct microusb port? :P
[22:32] <algrym> Also, thanks.
[22:33] <algrym> Yes! I made sure I'm plugging power into the microusb (not mini, sorry) port labeled power.
[22:34] <Lartza> Are you able to try another sd card?
[22:34] <Lartza> The symptoms pretty much mean no bootcode runs ever
[22:34] <algrym> I agree. It looks like it never reads the SD card ever.
[22:35] <Lartza> The activity light lights up when it does
[22:35] * wonderer (~quakeroat@unaffiliated/wonderer) Quit (Quit: Famous quotes #55: "Too many pieces of music finish too long after the end." - Igor Stravinsky (1882-1971))
[22:35] <Lartza> And you get display when the GPU initializes from the SD
[22:35] <algrym> Good thinking tho ... I assumed the card was OK because it works in the pi3 ... I'll see if I can find another around the house.
[22:35] <Lartza> SD cards are... finicky
[22:35] * exobuzz (~buzz@cpc69064-oxfd26-2-0-cust48.4-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:36] <Lartza> of course the other option can be a faulty zero, something from bent SD card pins to something more complicated
[22:37] <algrym> I gave up and ordered another zero ($20 omg they're cheaper than gum) but I'd hoped I'd just overlooked one here.
[22:37] <algrym> s/one/something/g
[22:38] <Lartza> And I mean now you have two to play with when you fix the first one ;)
[22:38] <algrym> IKR I'm hoping :)
[22:38] <Lartza> https://elinux.org/R-Pi_Troubleshooting has a lot of information, not really zero specific since no power led but
[22:38] <Lartza> also links to other resources
[22:39] <algrym> Yeah, that's a good link. :)
[22:39] <algrym> Problem isolation fail :)
[22:40] <algrym> Thank you for the sanity check ... I'm going to guess its an SD card or card socket thing since there's no lights at any point, and its supposed to blink when reading the SD.
[22:40] <Lartza> It's certainly an option
[22:41] <algrym> ... or its haunted. Is there a RPi standard for exorcism?
[22:41] <Lartza> Or you fried the zero? :P
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[22:41] * exobuzz (~buzz@cpc69064-oxfd26-2-0-cust48.4-3.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:41] <Lartza> More volts more good right?
[22:41] <Lartza> ;)
[22:41] <algrym> Seems pretty likely at this point.
[22:41] * tnewman (~tnewman@2001-b011-20e0-1e52-3e97-0eff-fec4-ff4a.dynamic-ip6.hinet.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[22:41] <Lartza> That only happens if you connect a power supply that isn't 5V to the gpio or microusb
[22:42] <algrym> Will I let out the magic smoke if I plug the power micro-usb into the other socket? I haven't tried that yet.
[22:42] <Lartza> Or connect over 3.3V to the gpio
[22:42] <algrym> bzzt
[22:42] <Lartza> I... don't think so
[22:43] <algrym> bzzt
[22:43] <Lartza> It's all USB
[22:43] <sir_guy_carleton> i want to auto-mount some usb stucks in raspbian. anything i need to watch for specifically for the pi, or can i just follow generic linux instructions?
[22:43] <algrym> Yeah, no joy there either. I'd hoped maybe I misread the labels or something.
[22:43] * tnewman (~tnewman@2001-b011-20e0-1a6d-3e97-0eff-fec4-ff4a.dynamic-ip6.hinet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:43] <Lartza> And electricity doesn't just dump itself without load, I think it's even possible to power it through the OTG port
[22:43] <waveform> algrym, no, you can quite happily power the zero thru the data port
[22:43] * audiopath (~audiopath@2a02:8388:6a84:3700:f14d:6902:5373:1347) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:44] <algrym> @sir_guy generic instructions for debian- or ubuntu-related distributions should work.
[22:44] <Lartza> What you can't do is use the power port for data, the pins are not connected ;)
[22:44] <waveform> indeed :)
[22:44] <algrym> @waveform that's good to know. I wonder ... ah, oh.
[22:44] <algrym> ok, even.
[22:44] <Lartza> No you can't connect them
[22:44] * gotpunk (~gotpunk@2600-6c5e-467f-e614-a87c-6422-c90c-dc37.dhcp6.chtrptr.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:45] * widp (~widp@pptp-194-95-0-149.pptp.padnet.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:45] <Lartza> Or is this a case of there's a will there's a way...
[22:45] <algrym> Well, it didn't catch fire and it didn't do anything.
[22:45] <sir_guy_carleton> algrym: okay, thanks
[22:45] <waveform> incidentally, powering it thru the data port is very handy given it's also an OTG port - means you can power the zero and (for example) use the port as virtual ethernet (for SSH) over a single cable
[22:45] <waveform> but sadly I have to concur with Lartza that this sounds very much like a dead zero
[22:46] <Lartza> Or a bent pin!
[22:46] <Lartza> That's not quite dead
[22:46] <Lartza> And a bad SD card is still possible too
[22:46] * Yamosu (~ryan2390@host86-172-80-132.range86-172.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:46] <algrym> Stupid tiny micro-sd cards.
[22:46] <Lartza> Don't break eye contact
[22:46] <Lartza> They are gone if you do
[22:47] <algrym> no kidding ... I dropped the only other SD card I have and I think its already left the house.
[22:47] <widp> Hello I want to turn my raspberry pi 3 model b into a wifi router, will this work https://www.ebay.de/itm/150m-USB-WiFi-Wireless-Adapter-LAN-w-Antenne-Raspberry-Pi-2-B-Ralink-rt5370RT/173591340907?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20161121134545%26meid%3D69a5e37a81454e28b17f39ed6105cefa%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D173591340907&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226 ?
[22:47] * sonicdee (~linushec@linus.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:47] <widp> do I have to do anything else apart from plug a usb wifi adapter into it?
[22:48] * sonicdee (~linushec@linus.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:48] <Lartza> Configration
[22:48] <Lartza> And you'll never have a great experience, what do you expect?
[22:48] <widp> Lartza: was that about me?
[22:49] <Lartza> Yes
[22:49] <widp> What problems could it pose?
[22:49] <Lartza> Bad performance?
[22:49] <Lartza> also the wifi adapter has to be able to go to AP mode
[22:49] <algrym> Thanks for your help, Lartza and waveform. :) Much appreciated.
[22:50] <Lartza> That being said there is a driver for it in the kernel, rt2800usb
[22:50] <widp> does the link I posted support ap mode?
[22:51] <widp> How can I tell?
[22:51] * algrym (186068c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[22:51] <widp> also the product page says it is for 2b and I have 3b, could this cause issues?
[22:51] * Angeris (~poor.b@4548.s.t4vps.eu) Quit (Quit: coolpad f1)
[22:51] <Lartza> RT5370... should do AP
[22:51] <Lartza> No
[22:52] <Lartza> But why do you need a wi-fi adapter?
[22:52] <Lartza> 3B has wi-fi
[22:52] <Lartza> I didn't realize you said 3
[22:52] * sonicdee (~linushec@linus.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:53] <widp> oh it does, woah that's awesome!
[22:53] <Lartza> https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/wireless/access-point.md
[22:53] <Lartza> You can start getting disappointed right away ;)
[22:54] <Lartza> Well, like all things rpi, if you don't expect much you'll probably be fine
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[22:59] * widp (~widp@pptp-194-95-0-149.pptp.padnet.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[23:00] <Khaytsus> Pi works great if you use it like an extensible embedded device
[23:00] <Khaytsus> a full desktop.. or something that has to be 100% reliable.. eh
[23:00] * Angeris (~poor.b@4548.s.t4vps.eu) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:01] <Lartza> Chromecast from sale was a fine investment to reduce my media playing troubles :P
[23:02] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:06] <yLwHaTT> i use it as a full desktop
[23:06] <yLwHaTT> works great
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[23:48] <FireHopper> anyone in PA USA? I have a few things I'd like to sell I'm not using anymore to raise some funds since dad is in rehab for spinal issues, so funds are short..
[23:51] * graphene (~graphene@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[23:56] <ferdinand> Sorry to hear that, I hope he recovers quickly.
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