#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2018-12-23

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:01] <iKarith> This exists, but AFAIK it's not a product you can just buy currently… https://b2b.gigabyte.com/Server-Motherboard/MP30-AR0-rev-11
[0:01] <Habbie> i had not heard of AppliedMicro until just now
[0:02] <Habbie> i 'have' one 96 core ARM box but i don't actually own it
[0:02] <Habbie> i have no idea what it costs
[0:02] <Habbie> it is very fast because it has 96 cores
[0:02] <Habbie> the individual cores are terrible
[0:02] <chris_99> what amount of cache does that have out of interest
[0:02] <Habbie> tell me how to find out
[0:03] * aibohphobia (~aibohphob@cpc110571-roth9-2-0-cust385.17-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:03] <iKarith> That Gigabyte is the most "yeah I'm a server" looking I/O plane I've seen recently. :)
[0:03] <Habbie> L1 1536KiB, L2 16MiB
[0:04] * suttin (~weechat@unaffiliated/suttin) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:04] <Habbie> under each cpu in lshw
[0:04] <Habbie> chris_99, hope this helps http://paste.debian.net/1057102/
[0:05] <Habbie> line 57 confuses me
[0:06] <Habbie> hmm many lines confuse me
[0:06] <Habbie> line 251 too
[0:07] * Kehoe (~Kehoe@75.97.210.61.res-cmts.blm.ptd.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:07] <chris_99> cheers
[0:07] <chris_99> so it's got 2 physical cpu then?
[0:08] <Habbie> ah yes
[0:08] <Habbie> maybe that confuses lshw on cpu=2 and up
[0:08] <Habbie> it is 2x48 indeed
[0:09] * asabil (~asabil@41.92-221-75.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:12] * asabil (~asabil@41.92-221-75.customer.lyse.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:20] * cybertree (~david@2600-6c5e-587f-f6af-9650-5893-bdf5-a8a6.dhcp6.chtrptr.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:20] * tvm (~tvm@router-sever1-nat-m.pilsfree.net) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[0:20] * cybertree (~david@2600-6c5e-587f-f6af-9650-5893-bdf5-a8a6.dhcp6.chtrptr.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:21] <iKarith> Habbie: I bet that thing sips power for 96 cores though
[0:21] <Habbie> that i do not know
[0:21] <iKarith> and doesn't require an air conditioner to keep it from melting down. :D
[0:21] <Habbie> well i'm pretty sure it's in a decent data center
[0:22] <iKarith> Intel's 28 core machine actually needed an AC wired up as a water cooler
[0:22] <Habbie> oh really
[0:22] * buttsanchez (~drblacksk@ool-4357d3a2.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:22] <Habbie> i wasn't aware there were computers sold today that would not work, on their own, in a decent building
[0:23] <Habbie> i can see how 100 or 1000 computers would need AC anywhere
[0:23] <Habbie> but single machines these days tend to survive without
[0:23] <iKarith> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-28-core-cpu-5ghz,37244.html
[0:23] <Habbie> oh 5ghz
[0:23] * fp7 (~fp7@unaffiliated/fp7) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:24] <Habbie> yeah leaving out 'overclocked' does seem 'convenient' there
[0:24] * freestyle_coder (~freestyle@p5DDBFE92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:24] <iKarith> 5th pic down
[0:24] <iKarith> that AC is the cooler for their monstrosity
[0:24] <Habbie> ah
[0:26] * akk (~akk@97-123-90-36.albq.qwest.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[0:27] <iKarith> When we start seeing 16 and 24 core ARMs made for desktop machines at like 7 or even 5nm, it'll totally be possible to absolutely smoke Intel's consumer desktop PCs, if Microsoft and Apple are ready for that plunge. And I think they're moving that direction.
[0:28] <ShadowJK> eh
[0:28] <ShadowJK> I'm not so sure
[0:28] <iKarith> Current mobile ARM chips can dynamically recompile x86 code (32 bit) at around the Core 2 Duo speeds. That's not awesome.
[0:29] <ShadowJK> The software used on desktop machines (and laptops) is for most part not very parallellizable :/
[0:29] <ShadowJK> So the amount of cores needed, is kinda proportional to the amount of extra stuff running in the background
[0:29] <iKarith> Where you benefit with parallel computing on the desktop is thread responsiveness.
[0:30] <iKarith> Haiku was a few decades early. ;)
[0:30] <iKarith> well, BeOS was really.
[0:31] <iKarith> But no, legacy apps aren't gonna benefit much. And I'm still not convinced either Windows or macOS is well suited to a heavily parallel environment with their existing kernels.
[0:31] <ShadowJK> It's kinda meaningless when 90% of the use is running a web browser
[0:31] <iKarith> Unless each page is its own thread
[0:32] <iKarith> which might be its own CPU
[0:32] <chris_99> and what if the webpage wants to mine BTC efficiently
[0:32] * jaziz (~jaziz@unaffiliated/jaziz) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[0:34] * redstarcomrade (~quassel@cpe-104-175-255-182.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[0:36] * clemens3_ (~clemens@mx.eniso-partners.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:37] * asabil (~asabil@41.92-221-75.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:37] <chris_99> on a more serious note, if you had a metric tonne of cores, i wonder if you could do real time raytracing
[0:38] * asabil (~asabil@41.92-221-75.customer.lyse.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:39] <ShadowJK> raytracing is parallellizable
[0:39] <chris_99> mm
[0:40] <ShadowJK> I knew a guy who made it work across a cluster of Pentium-3
[0:40] <chris_99> there used to be something for blender i think it was that could render different segments of the same scene iirc
[0:40] <ShadowJK> The guy I knew wrote it from scratch as his BS thesis or something
[0:41] <chris_99> oh wait sorry, it was povray
[0:41] <chris_99> i think
[0:42] <chris_99> neat, that's impressive, writing it from scratch
[0:43] * cybertree (~david@2600-6c5e-587f-f6af-9650-5893-bdf5-a8a6.dhcp6.chtrptr.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[0:48] <ali1234> that's how nvidia RTX works. those cards have like 4000 cores
[0:49] <ali1234> they are SIMD though which means the all run the same code at the same time, but on different data
[0:50] * ntd (~ntd@gateway/tor-sasl/ntd) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:50] * cybertree (~david@2600-6c5e-587f-f6af-9650-5893-bdf5-a8a6.dhcp6.chtrptr.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:55] * asabil (~asabil@41.92-221-75.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[0:58] <iKarith> bah, even Chromebooks are all now wintel devices.
[0:59] * deehuck (~deehuck@cpe-70-124-164-194.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:59] <Habbie> intel or wintel?
[1:01] <ntd> iKarith, no they're not
[1:01] * Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] <iKarith> ntd: the ones that aren't ultra-low-end all seem to be. I went looking for essentially the best I could find with an arm chip in it.
[1:02] * audiopath (~audiopath@2a02:8388:6a84:3700:f14d:6902:5373:1347) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:02] <Habbie> iKarith, so why call those wintel and not intel?
[1:02] <iKarith> Habbie: Because not all of the CPUs are Intel chips.
[1:03] <iKarith> Habbie: Things like MediaGX still get used
[1:03] <iKarith> Often Atom or Celeron too, but the highest end ones have Core i5s in them
[1:04] * finalbeta (~finalbeta@ptr-e2o38d3vamjsb1ezw1f.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:04] <Habbie> cyrix mediagx?
[1:04] <ntd> why whould you ever want to use a device made and marketed by the worlds biggest ad agency for personal correspondence?
[1:04] <iKarith> No longer Cyrix, but yes.
[1:04] <ntd> or their services, for that matter?
[1:04] * OpenSorceress (~opensorce@unaffiliated/screamingbanshee) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:04] * aibohphobia (~aibohphob@cpc110571-roth9-2-0-cust385.17-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish!)
[1:05] <ntd> i mean, running with scissors is way safer
[1:05] <iKarith> ntd: I'm looking for a Linux box for arrch64 development and tinkering.
[1:05] <Habbie> iKarith, buy a pi3
[1:05] <iKarith> The Pi 3 is a little limited on RAM for that.
[1:05] <Habbie> right
[1:05] <iKarith> I might be wise to wait for Pi 4
[1:06] <Habbie> i remember when the pine64 came to kickstarter
[1:06] <Habbie> it was a very nice 64 bit arm device for a decent price
[1:06] <Habbie> but my first reaction was 'the pi foundation can do this soon then'
[1:06] <Habbie> and they did
[1:06] <iKarith> Yeah, I love my Pi 3.
[1:06] <Habbie> iKarith, scaleway.com is nice for cheap arm64 boxes btw - but also not great on RAM
[1:06] <iKarith> (I have like four)
[1:07] * tdy (~tdy@unaffiliated/tdy) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[1:08] <iKarith> I think the 3B+ and 3A+ (I don't have a 3A+ yet) are pretty much the pinnacle of the Pi's platform. None of the MeToos that want to share basic compatibility with the Pi form factor really get it right.
[1:08] * dreamcat4 (uid157427@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jbrliklatrxmeuqj) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[1:09] <Habbie> yeah
[1:09] <Habbie> i have trouble imagining what the pi4 might be
[1:09] * BKuhl (~BKuhl@pool-100-35-56-233.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:09] <iKarith> The 3B+ also has something the 3B didn't: Easy application of a decent heatsink if you wanna avoid throttling or even do some overclocking. Heatsinking the 3 was kind of fiddly.
[1:09] <Habbie> ah
[1:11] <iKarith> The SoC really doesn't need much heatsink if its got active cooling on it. Really it doesn't, those stupid $1 heatsinks everyone sells for the Pi are almost good enough as is if there's air blowing across them
[1:11] <iKarith> of course you can do almost as good blowing air across an unsinked SoC ;)
[1:11] <Habbie> i've never done anything to cool a pi, but my usecases are not super interesting
[1:11] <Habbie> yes, that was my suspicion as well, if you're blowing air, you should just be good
[1:11] <iKarith> I crunch some numbers on a few of mine
[1:11] <Habbie> why?
[1:12] * BKuhl (~BKuhl@pool-100-35-56-233.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:12] <iKarith> Because they crunch the numbers fine and keep my power bill low.
[1:12] <Habbie> it's been my impression that per watt, they're not great at crunching
[1:13] <chris_99> Does anyone use a soundcard for the pi, that clips onto the pin header out of interest?
[1:13] * deehuck (~deehuck@cpe-70-124-164-194.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:13] <iKarith> I never needed to cool the (OG) Pi 2, but the 3 wants some thermal mass and a fan, or a lot of thermal mass and convection.
[1:13] * louisdk (~louisdk@static-5-103-138-205.ip.fibianet.dk) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[1:13] <Habbie> chris_99, like hifiberry? i'm sure many people do
[1:13] <iKarith> Habbie: they're better than the old Intel chips I have at my disposal.
[1:14] <iKarith> Habbie: My best is a Broadwell i5, and it's not available for the task.
[1:14] <chris_99> i'm just looking for something to record audio @ 16 bit / 44kHz at the minimum, as cheap as possible really, atm i used a usb soundcard, but if there's something that clips onto say a pi zero for £10 or so i'd be very interested
[1:14] <chris_99> i'll have a look at the hifiberry
[1:15] * cybertree (~david@2600-6c5e-587f-f6af-9650-5893-bdf5-a8a6.dhcp6.chtrptr.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[1:15] <iKarith> chris_99: I'd be interested in what you find for the quality of the audio. I kinda want to see if I can build a portable MIDI box out of a 3A+ at some point.
[1:16] <Habbie> iKarith, right - outside of my 2015 macbook the pi3 might also be the best per watt here
[1:17] <Habbie> iKarith, tell me about your midi needs because i'm curious
[1:18] * hijackeel (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hijackeel) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:18] <iKarith> Habbie: Well, back in the day, old computers (particularly PC, but also some others) could have better music in games and whatnot if you had hardware MIDI devices. These can be had today, though not real cheaply. The thing is you probably want 3-4 of them, and they're all kinda … big.
[1:18] * bray90820 (~bray90820@50-83-216-195.client.mchsi.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:19] <Habbie> iKarith, i know what you mean about back in the day - go on :)
[1:19] <bray90820> Is there any way I could use two gpio devices with a raspberry pi
[1:19] <bray90820> Sepesifically a jjst boom dac and thr 7 inch touch screen
[1:20] <Habbie> bray90820, it depends on whether their pin needs overlap
[1:20] <iKarith> A Pi 3 should be able to emulate any of them. It won't sound awesome because the Pi's sound is not awesome, but between ALSA, jack, good soundfonts, and stuff like munt for emulating like the old MT-32s, … all of that can work well on a Pi 3 with a USB MIDI interface, or possibly even something on the GPIO. USB is path of least resistance though.
[1:20] <Habbie> bray90820, and if they do, if you can fix that
[1:21] <bray90820> Can I get something like this
[1:21] <bray90820> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAGVF7R47958&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-PC-_-pla-Kvantym+Store-_-Barebone+Systems-_-9SIAGVF7R47958&gclid=CjwKCAiA3vfgBRB9EiwAkfpd3H_FQH6eCkA8lpsroFDKkrT4XbCvXRWooO78SycuygaNfCuwN16-6xoC4I0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
[1:21] <Habbie> iKarith, 'sound not awesome' depends - the DAC on any Pi sucks but HDMI or some other digital output (like the hifiberry mentioned before) might help
[1:21] <Habbie> iKarith, i do agree usb midi would probably be the least painful if you can arrange it
[1:21] <Khaytsus> Lord are we still alking about emuating things on the Pi?
[1:21] <Habbie> Khaytsus, aren't we always?
[1:22] <chris_99> Anyone use this - http://www.audioinjector.net/rpi-zero
[1:22] <iKarith> What I'd really love to accomplish is something that had a simple menu and could be quickly switched between a couple MT-32 modes or do a pretty solid Roland SoundCanvas or Yamaha XG, and possibly be able to insert a couple other soundfonts in the "more recent" category.
[1:22] <Habbie> iKarith, so, be a midi device, and some interface to make it behave like one or the other?
[1:23] <iKarith> Pretty much
[1:23] <Habbie> iKarith, how do you want to switch?
[1:23] <Habbie> iKarith, also timidity comes to mind, if it hadn't crossed your path
[1:23] <iKarith> Ideally via touchscreen menu or hardware buttons. Prefer not to have to break out mouse and keyboard and HDMI display to twiddle it.
[1:23] <Habbie> right
[1:24] <iKarith> If I get what I'm after in the end, it's basically an appliance.
[1:24] <Habbie> yes, got it
[1:24] <Habbie> so i'm unsure where your questions are
[1:24] <Habbie> analog output is bad; hdmi output is good; output via various expansion boards is good
[1:25] <Habbie> small displays and hardware buttons are a solved problem
[1:25] <iKarith> Ideally one I can tell people "get this file from <link>, it'll cost you $whatever", then tell them where to obtain the MT-32 ROMs since Roland … lost ownership of them, legally speaking, and put it together. :)
[1:25] <Habbie> hehe
[1:25] <Habbie> and munt users know where to get them?
[1:25] <Habbie> i did not know about munt, thank you for that
[1:25] <iKarith> Not everyone knows, but … they're not hard to get.
[1:25] <Habbie> sure
[1:26] <Habbie> let's not discuss that any further
[1:26] <iKarith> Roland tried to sue someone for pirating their ROMs
[1:26] <Habbie> but, what problem are we solving here?
[1:26] <bray90820> Habbie: Were you talking to me with the analog comment?
[1:26] <iKarith> that person insisted Roland prove they owned the ROMs.
[1:26] <Habbie> people with real 386s that want a midi device?
[1:26] <iKarith> Roland could not.
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[1:26] <Habbie> bray90820, i was not - i cannot even see your link on this part of the planet
[1:26] * neops (~neops@unaffiliated/neops) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:27] <iKarith> Judge ruled they had no standing to defend Copyright. If Roland SOLD the ROMs somewhere, I'd link people to the product page.
[1:27] <Habbie> iKarith, right - again, let's drop that part of the conversation
[1:27] <Habbie> iKarith, tell me what total picture problem you are solving
[1:27] <bray90820> Habbie: Why can't you
[1:27] <Habbie> bray90820, because i'm in europe
[1:28] <bray90820> Habbie: Try this
[1:28] <bray90820> https://amzn.to/2EDivGC
[1:28] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Client Quit)
[1:29] <iKarith> Habbie: That the software I've got for the moment is Qt/X-based stuff, and in the end I want to provide the small-screen/buttons interface, complete with some of the features of the hardware devices like setting up reverb and the like. Purely UI and glue logic to put it all together at this point. I just haven't had as much time to devote to it as I'd like.
[1:29] <Habbie> iKarith, no but i mean, what's the target audience? actual 386 PCs?
[1:30] * davr0s (~textual@host109-155-175-220.range109-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:31] <iKarith> Oh! Yes, actually. 386s, Apple IIs, Pentiums, Atari STs, MSX, pretty much all those old machines people used this stuff for.
[1:32] <iKarith> Possibly more modern machines using gog.com versions of PC games
[1:32] <Habbie> ok
[1:32] <Habbie> so old machines, running the old builds, with some kind of MIDI present
[1:32] <Habbie> that they need to physically connect to something
[1:32] <iKarith> Yeah
[1:32] <Habbie> and many will not have USB
[1:32] <iKarith> Almost none
[1:33] <iKarith> There are USB-to-DIN MIDI interfaces
[1:33] <Habbie> but because the pi has usb, a cheap chinese usb/midi converter might make sense as part of this story
[1:33] <iKarith> I've got a couple Roland and Emu adapters that should work
[1:33] <iKarith> The cheap Chinese ones aren't ideal some others have told me
[1:33] <Habbie> ok, sure
[1:34] <iKarith> Phil couldn't get a couple of them to work (Phil's Computer Lab on youtube)
[1:34] <Habbie> but 'getting midi to the pi' is not the issue i suspect
[1:34] <iKarith> Nah, it's getting all the software set up and building the interface.
[1:34] <Habbie> without wanting to diminish any effort, it sounds like this is a 'glue' problem
[1:34] <Habbie> which does not mean it's not 3 weeks of work
[1:34] <iKarith> it really is at this point
[1:35] <Habbie> i just feel all of the parts already exist
[1:35] <Habbie> bray90820, that url works - not entirely sure what it is, but you'll still have to figure out overlapping pin usage
[1:36] * mpo_ (~quassel@unaffiliated/mpo49) Quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
[1:36] <bray90820> Habbie: That gives me another sit of gpio pins
[1:36] <iKarith> Sadly it's not my highest priority right now or 3 weeks between now and the early part of January wouldn't be that big of a deal.
[1:36] <Habbie> bray90820, looks like it allows you to connect separate things to the same pins, but that does not mean separate things will just work
[1:36] <Habbie> bray90820, no, it gives you three sets of pins connecting to -the same gpio pins-
[1:36] * hijackeel (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hijackeel) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[1:37] <bray90820> I actually think I discovered It's not needed I can do what I want if I use a second power supply
[1:37] <Habbie> bray90820, if power is the only problem, then yes
[1:37] <bray90820> Yeah the gpio pins are only being used so i don't need to use a second power supply
[1:38] * mpo (~quassel@unaffiliated/mpo49) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:39] <Habbie> not sure that's true
[1:40] <Habbie> zzz
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[1:50] <morfin> where the heck is egl headers
[1:50] <morfin> in gst-plugins-bad
[1:54] * freestyle_coder (~freestyle@p5DDBFE92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:54] * Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@541A8CEB.cm-5-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:56] <morfin> i want to build gst-mmal with own sink for mmal
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[2:10] <bray90820> Habbie: Yes I just tested it I don't need to use the gpio pins
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[4:29] <aro> is there a good power supply that will power a pi 3b+ in a car?
[4:32] <noahajac> aro: Anything 12VDC to 5VDC with sufficient amperage should do, but it may be a drain on battery.
[4:32] <DanielTheFox> stepdown PSU, huh
[4:33] <DanielTheFox> they're fine when they're actual electronic stepdown PSU
[4:33] <DanielTheFox> instead of resistors
[4:34] <aro> I have a buck 12v->5vdc
[4:34] <aro> and it drops, the pi doesnt power up
[4:34] <DanielTheFox> make sure it can output proper amperage
[4:34] <DanielTheFox> and even if it can do
[4:34] <aro> its 5a
[4:35] <noahajac> DanielTheFox: As someone who hasn't really learned much about power supplies, what would the difference be between a power supply, voltage regulator, and just a resistor voltage divider?
[4:35] <DanielTheFox> noahajac: a proper power supply should exchange ampers with extra volts
[4:35] <DanielTheFox> or viceversa
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[4:35] <aro> https://www.amazon.com/GEREE-Converter-Step-down-Transformer-Waterproof/dp/B00O6RUJOK
[4:35] <aro> i bought that
[4:36] <aro> when i check the voltage without the pi, it delivers 5.16vdc
[4:36] <DanielTheFox> most cheap voltage regulators (such as those generic ones originally made by Texas Instruments) work well
[4:36] <aro> but it doesnt power up
[4:36] <DanielTheFox> but you need at least 2V+ than the output voltage
[4:36] <aro> what do you mean
[4:36] <DanielTheFox> if you want 5V, you should have at least 7V
[4:36] <aro> oh
[4:36] <aro> why is that
[4:36] <DanielTheFox> aro: I'm answering noahajac's question
[4:36] <DanielTheFox> :)
[4:37] <DanielTheFox> noahajac: and a resistor voltage divider is even worse
[4:37] <DanielTheFox> everything that is a resistor will WASTE energy as heat
[4:37] <DanielTheFox> voltage regulators waste energy too, and get very hot to touch
[4:37] <DanielTheFox> especially if you feed 12V to output 5V
[4:37] <DanielTheFox> a proper stepdown PSU will not waste as much energy
[4:38] <noahajac> That makes sense.
[4:38] <aro> so what should i get
[4:38] <DanielTheFox> (it may lose some during conversion, but it'll be nothing compared to the other two kinds)
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[4:38] <noahajac> What components are those power supplies generally made of that do the step down? Is it some IC? The inductors?
[4:39] <DanielTheFox> I think ICs can do it
[4:39] <DanielTheFox> but I don't know how they're made
[4:39] <DanielTheFox> I'm more of a lazy amateur
[4:39] <DanielTheFox> and get pre-made stuff :P
[4:39] <DanielTheFox> uhh
[4:39] <DanielTheFox> some cheap stepdown PSU will shift energy as their load increases
[4:39] <DanielTheFox> which is what aro might be suffering
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[4:40] <noahajac> In electronics we learned of voltage dividers, and AC transformers/rectifiers but that's pretty much my knowledge scope, except add voltage regulators because I do *some* research on my own.
[4:40] <DanielTheFox> aro: how much do you care about power consumption? Will the car be turned on most of the time the RPi is on too?
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[4:40] <aro> yes it will
[4:40] <DanielTheFox> aro: ok, then I think you can do something ideal
[4:40] <DanielTheFox> but requires some investment
[4:40] <aro> ok
[4:40] <noahajac> Yeah, I looked into power supplies for the car, even with the Pi in halt state, consumption is not idea.
[4:41] <noahajac> *ideal
[4:41] <DanielTheFox> aro: get an "inverter" or however they're called, it'll convert 12V from car to household 110V AC voltage
[4:41] <DanielTheFox> or whatever voltage they use in your area
[4:41] <aro> i looked into that but that wasnt an option unfortunately
[4:41] <DanielTheFox> ok
[4:41] <aro> this needs to be relatively unobtrusive
[4:41] <DanielTheFox> ok, then I don't know what could work
[4:42] <DanielTheFox> other than buying expensive 12V to 5V adapters
[4:42] <DanielTheFox> and test trial-and-error
[4:42] <aro> i willd o that if i need to
[4:42] <DanielTheFox> which ones drop and which ones don't
[4:42] <aro> i was wondering if you guys knew which ones would work and not
[4:42] <DanielTheFox> unfortunately we can't see the electronics inside those adapters
[4:42] <DanielTheFox> before buying them
[4:43] <DanielTheFox> the fancy plastic case might be hiding a really crappy voltage regulator or an array/chain/ratnest of resistors
[4:43] <noahajac> How would an AC inverter be more efficient than a 12VDC to 5VDC power supply?
[4:43] <DanielTheFox> noahajac: it'll be extremely inefficient
[4:44] <DanielTheFox> but, along with a proper AC to 5V PSU for the RPi
[4:44] <noahajac> Oh nevermind, I read you wrong.
[4:44] <DanielTheFox> they'll have for sure the 5V needed :)
[4:44] <noahajac> <DanielTheFox> aro: how much do you care about power consumption? Will the car be turned on most of the time the RPi is on too?<aro> yes it will
[4:44] <noahajac> Thought you said "turned off"
[4:44] <DanielTheFox> ok
[4:44] <DanielTheFox> it happens
[4:45] <aro> the car will be on all the time
[4:45] <DanielTheFox> ok
[4:45] <DanielTheFox> the inverter will be inefficient
[4:45] <DanielTheFox> like, you may be using 50W and actually using 5W
[4:45] <DanielTheFox> but the car will be turned on
[4:46] <DanielTheFox> so the car's alternator will offset this inefficiency by far
[4:46] <noahajac> Wouldn't a good cigarette lighter phone charger be sufficient?
[4:46] <noahajac> Keyword is "good"
[4:46] <DanielTheFox> noahajac: that's what he tried first
[4:46] <DanielTheFox> and he reported his shitty adapter shifted voltage
[4:46] <DanielTheFox> and it didn't even power on the RPi
[4:46] <aro> https://www.amazon.com/Converter-DROK-Regulator-1-5-24V-Adjustable/dp/B00KL7I9XC
[4:46] <DanielTheFox> despite being advertised for 5A
[4:46] <aro> what about htat one? its adjustable
[4:47] <noahajac> DanielTheFox: Didn't he link some buck converter thing?
[4:47] <noahajac> I was meaning this https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00M6QODH2, I know Aukey is a good brand
[4:47] <DanielTheFox> ok, then your chances are better with known brands
[4:49] <aro> yeah i used a buck converter at first
[4:50] <DanielTheFox> cheap buck converters convert your bucks into trash
[4:50] <aro> lol
[4:51] <DanielTheFox> so follow the advises from somebody who already got many and picked their favorite
[4:51] <aro> so the aukey?
[4:51] <DanielTheFox> and if you don't feel right with it (such as high price), ask more people who has gone into that trouble
[4:52] <aro> its really not the price that bothers me at all
[4:52] <DanielTheFox> ok
[4:52] <DanielTheFox> then you have better chances with them
[4:52] <DanielTheFox> if it doesn't work
[4:52] <DanielTheFox> then start blaming somewhere
[4:53] <DanielTheFox> (quick advise: many cars (tested many models, all pre-2008) don't provide stable 12V
[4:53] <noahajac> The Aukey's have worked very well for me as a phone charger
[4:53] <DanielTheFox> (the voltage rises or falls)
[4:53] <noahajac> Including their QC3.0 implementation which is likely more complex than a simple stepdown.
[4:53] <noahajac> The one linked doesn't do this however.
[4:54] <DanielTheFox> (dad's 2001 Chevrolet Chevy Pop serves ~13V when the engine is on, and 11 to 12V when the battery is draining with the engine off)
[4:54] <noahajac> Yeah it's probably going right to the battery without any regulation
[4:55] <DanielTheFox> 1993 Nissan Tsuru (very popular car here) battery voltage varies with car's RPM
[4:55] <DanielTheFox> engine's RPM
[4:55] <DanielTheFox> it's a very cheap car btw
[4:56] <DanielTheFox> this behavior should only be present when the battery is near death
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[4:56] <DanielTheFox> when your electronics start running almost purely from the alternator
[5:04] <Khaytsus> Asshole mechanic once put a cheap refurb alternator on a car of mine and the lights altered with the rpm of the car.
[5:04] <Khaytsus> I think the diode pack was shot
[5:04] <Khaytsus> Terrible radio RFI too
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[5:12] <iodev> Khaytsus: which is why you should never accept to let anyone fix anything without you monitoring them
[5:12] <iodev> I mean something is clearly wrong when a service technician says "let me fix it in the back"
[5:13] <iodev> cause then they can do everything they want :D
[5:13] <noahajac> My mom had extremely low oil once and we didn't catch it until we got oil lights.
[5:13] <noahajac> Since it's extremely bad to drive with low oil, I filled it as soon as I could. Then we went to a mechanic.
[5:13] <noahajac> Even though I had her tell them it was actually low on oil. They replaced the oil sensor because it can go bad and *that's* why the light was on.
[5:14] <iodev> :D noahajac
[5:14] <iodev> best to just fix it yourself
[5:14] <noahajac> We switched to a different oil and haven't been having any problems. But my guess is it's actually just the oil filter wasn't tightned enough. So when I changed it, it's fixed.
[5:14] <noahajac> Still annoying they charged her for it.
[5:15] <iodev> especially electronics, like laptop\
[5:15] <iodev> cause when they get their hands on it, they will steal all your data
[5:16] <noahajac> If it's something you need a professional for, make sure you trust them.
[5:16] <iodev> noahajac: you can't trust them
[5:16] <iodev> it's better just to buy a new one, anyway
[5:16] <noahajac> For example if I ever need a Macbook mobo repair I couldn't do myself, I'd send it to Louis Rossmann.
[5:16] <iodev> oh, him I trust
[5:16] <iodev> but he is expensive and in the US and far from me
[5:17] <noahajac> I don't use Apple products however.
[5:17] <iodev> I use an Acer
[5:17] <aro> is he factory authorized
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[5:17] <iodev> aro: no, he is not the standard "Apple Idiot"
[5:17] <aro> lol
[5:17] <iodev> he knows how to do component-level repair
[5:18] <iodev> I mean, he doesn't throw the screen and motherboard away, just cause the hall sensor is broken
[5:18] <iodev> he just replaces the sensor, or the wire to it :D
[5:18] <Khaytsus> iodev: So you stand over the shoulder of everyone who does work on your stuff? Yeah, sure.
[5:19] * benin (~benin@183.82.39.176) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[5:19] <iodev> Khaytsus: I told a bank employee, who wanted to install their app on my phone (by holding it on their side to come to my side, so I can see)
[5:19] <iodev> she looked at me so strange, no idea what confidential is
[5:20] * Khaytsus blinks
[5:20] <iodev> Khaytsus: in short, I do NOT let people use my devices unattended
[5:20] * Khaytsus blinks again
[5:20] <iodev> or fix them, I'd rather buy a new laptop than have them repair it (they do a crappy job anyway)
[5:20] <iodev> #missing-screws
[5:21] <Khaytsus> Are you just making this up as you go?
[5:21] <iodev> nope
[5:21] <iodev> I had colleagues tell me that people who repair, authorized, do a bad job in Romania
[5:22] <noahajac> Apple Authorized Repair is a joke
[5:22] * aro scratches head
[5:22] <iodev> here, you either fix it yourself or buy a new one
[5:22] <Khaytsus> ...k
[5:22] <iodev> Khaytsus: so, I did SSD replacemnent myself, had to unscrew 3 screws
[5:23] <iodev> cause I have a panel LOL! Why do they recommend service for a simple thing like that?
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[5:23] <aro> because it voids warranty
[5:23] <aro> thats why
[5:23] <iodev> aro: there is no warranty on the panel
[5:23] <aro> there is on the machine as a whole
[5:24] <iodev> who cares! their warranty is crap
[5:24] <aro> how are they supposed to know you are competent at doing it?
[5:24] <aro> as far as they know, you could fuck it up and then send it to them to fix it under warranty
[5:24] <aro> f that
[5:24] <iodev> I don't know .... did it 6 months ago and the laptop is working great?!
[5:24] <noahajac> Technically, it is illegal to void warranties if you do a repair yourself.
[5:24] <noahajac> *proper repair
[5:24] <noahajac> At least in the US
[5:24] <aro> no it isn't
[5:24] <iodev> noahajac: I own the device, I have the right to void my warranty :D
[5:25] <aro> the warranty is a service provided by manufacturer
[5:25] <aro> they are within their right to void it
[5:25] <iodev> which I have the right to refuse
[5:25] <aro> you do
[5:25] <noahajac> iodev: Yes, you can if you want. But it also isn't legally voided if you do a repair.
[5:25] <noahajac> It's up to you to enact on that service, it's your choice.
[5:25] <aro> if they can prove you tampered with it they can refuse to repair it under warranty
[5:25] <noahajac> But they shouldn't be given the choice to deny that service because you repaired it yourself.
[5:25] <iodev> noahajac: yes, I'll fix it myself, anyway, if it breaks that badly
[5:26] <aro> thats why warrantees come with terms
[5:26] <iodev> it's cheaper to get a new one than motherboard replacement
[5:27] <iodev> but simple stuff, like changing RAM/SSD is easy with the easy access panel, I don't have to take the whole laptop apart :D (which is great!)
[5:28] <iodev> Khaytsus: I have a deep distrust in people
[5:28] <noahajac> https://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/warranty-laws-and-the-magnuson-moss-warranty-act-.html
[5:28] <iodev> I just don't get it, why can't they fix it in front of me
[5:28] <iodev> so I can see what they do, and evaluate their competency
[5:29] <iodev> I'd probably say "let me do it!" LOL! :D
[5:29] <Khaytsus> Yeah, next time I need my laptops phone alternator replaced I'll call you iodev
[5:29] <iodev> :D
[5:29] <iodev> with cars is worse
[5:29] <noahajac> Aw darn, my piston springs and muffler bearings are going.
[5:29] <Khaytsus> noahajac: And blinker fluid is low
[5:30] <noahajac> If you ever find a trusted, local mechanic. Keep them close and never leave them.
[5:30] <iodev> they take it to the "garage", Khaytsus, they "fix" it there, then they say stupid shit like "Good as new!"
[5:30] <Khaytsus> noahajac: I had one, trusted him and his shop for years. then I don't know what happened, screwed me twice in a few years.. I'm done of course.
[5:30] <iodev> noahajac: I suggest you void your warranty on your car :D
[5:30] <noahajac> iodev: I don't have one, but when I do, I'm sure my 2002 Audi A6 will be long gone warranty wise.
[5:31] <noahajac> It needs a new muffler and catylitic converter, that's gonna be fun
[5:31] <iodev> I neither have one, but my dad always uses after-market parts
[5:31] <Khaytsus> Replace the alternator with a refurb one, said I didn't "request" a new one, pretty sure I was charged for a new one, and when I couldn't pick up the car at 4pm they forgot about it and left it out back with the windows all rolled down.
[5:31] <iodev> and they work just as well, he never takes it to service
[5:31] <Khaytsus> It was like a perfect storm of them being fuckups
[5:32] <iodev> oh, please, they want to cheat you
[5:32] <iodev> else they would be transparent
[5:32] <Khaytsus> noahajac: Straight pipes yo
[5:32] <iodev> transparent, in the business ethics sense
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[5:33] <noahajac> Khaytsus: I'd prefer to pass inspection heh
[5:33] <noahajac> iodev: What do you call a parent of a transgender child?
[5:33] <noahajac> Transparent
[5:33] <iodev> whenever I think of people like that, I remember: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU6WXCvNGms
[5:34] <Khaytsus> noahajac: I'd tell you a joke about paper, but it's tearable.
[5:34] <iodev> https://www.allmusicals.com/lyrics/scrooge/ihatepeople.htm
[5:34] <iodev> or, if you prefer it in text ^
[5:35] <iodev> "Feeding on their fellow men; Reaping rich rewards; Contaminating everything they see"
[5:38] * leothrix (~leothrix@elastic/staff/leothrix) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:40] <iodev> so, in conclusion, I will never send my devices into warranty, never!
[5:43] * OpenSorceress (~opensorce@unaffiliated/screamingbanshee) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[5:44] <noahajac> For things like phone repairs I'm always scared that waterproofing would be screwed up
[5:48] <Khaytsus> It will be. Unless you remove every bit of the old and properly apply the new.
[5:48] <jaziz> prob is
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[6:00] <noregret> has anybody done a peep hole cam project with a pi? if yes, I would like to know the cam used for that
[6:06] <iodev> noregret: no, reparing phones is madness
[6:06] <iodev> they are glued together, forget it
[6:06] <noregret> iodev: i never mentioned phones tho
[6:07] <iodev> sorry, I meant, noahajac
[6:07] <iodev> sorry, autocomplete, too lazy to type more than 2 letters
[6:07] * iodev embarrassed
[6:07] <noregret> haha
[6:08] <noregret> I've been there
[6:08] <iodev> I hate it when people have like 4/5 common letters
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[8:06] <Keavon> There's a device with an RS232 port which I want to control by sending it 13-byte packets. Could I use a Pi Zero and this cable, or do I need anything more? https://smile.amazon.com/Serial-Asunflower-Adapter-FT232RL-Converter/dp/B07BKWCWY5/
[8:07] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
[8:07] <HighInBC> that should do it
[8:07] * finalbeta (~finalbeta@ptr-e2o38d3vamjsb1ezw1f.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[8:07] <RcHaCk> hi HighInBC
[8:07] <HighInBC> hi
[8:07] <RcHaCk> how are you ?
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[8:07] <HighInBC> high
[8:07] <RcHaCk> lol awesome
[8:07] <HighInBC> its in the name
[8:08] <RcHaCk> did you enjoy the stormy weather
[8:08] <HighInBC> yes except my computer and PS4 kept rebooting
[8:08] <HighInBC> need a UPS
[8:08] <RcHaCk> ya i bought one of those before but it pissed me off
[8:08] <HighInBC> how so?
[8:09] <RcHaCk> everytime the power went out a very loud high pitch beep would go off and there was no way to turn it off
[8:09] <Keavon> Thanks HighInBC. As a follow-up, I want to use a keyboard (or a small device that emulates a few keys on a keyboard, specifically) to trigger the Pi Zero to send the 13-byte sequence. Will it be easy to set up a simple program that can automatically open and listen for keyboard input, without it having the ability to randomly break and require plugging in a keyboard and monitor to fix? I need a set-it-and-forget-it box.
[8:09] <HighInBC> weak, most have an alarm disable button or switch
[8:09] <RcHaCk> and you can hear it very far because its silent when the power is off
[8:09] <HighInBC> Keavon: it is a computer, you can program it to do whatever you want
[8:10] <HighInBC> raspbian is a lot like debian
[8:10] <HighInBC> you can also hook up a button to a GPIO
[8:11] <Keavon> HighInBC: Well, certainly! :P I am more asking from a standpoint of not being extremely familiar with the ins-and-outs of Linux, although I'm fluent enough to do simple tasks. Is there a common way people set up a Pi for projects like I described, something that listens for keypresses on startup and doesn't do anything else?
[8:12] <HighInBC> I am not sure but I suppose if you want to catch the keyboard at boot you need to tell linux to run your program instead of the normal login prompt
[8:12] <HighInBC> I am not sure where it is kept
[8:12] * Toadisattva (~Toadisatt@gateway/tor-sasl/toadisattva) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[8:12] <Keavon> HighInBC: So basically, have the kernel boot my program instead of Bash?
[8:12] <HighInBC> that would be one way
[8:13] <HighInBC> you might ask in #raspbian the best way to do that
[8:13] <HighInBC> I assume you are running raspbian
[8:14] <Keavon> Interesting. I will also consider using the GPIO pins. I am looking for a nice 3x2 button panel, and deciding between a USB device that emulates a keyboard press, or using GPIO.
[8:14] <Keavon> Yeah, my home server Pi B+ uses Raspbian so that's what I'm familiar with.
[8:16] <Keavon> HighInBC: Would a Pi Zero have the necessary pins to make a 6-button keypad with 6 LEDs work? I.e. it would light up the active button.
[8:16] <mlelstv> https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/button-shim
[8:16] <HighInBC> no idea how the keypad is setup, link?
[8:17] <mlelstv> that one has only 5
[8:17] <HighInBC> nice
[8:17] <Keavon> HighInBC: I haven't found one in particular, but basically just 6 buttons and 6 LEDs wired up, either directly or in a matrix.
[8:17] <HighInBC> I aws thinking an I2C based button/display would work well
[8:17] <HighInBC> they use less pins
[8:18] <Keavon> Do you have a link for an example of what you're describing?
[8:19] <mlelstv> and one with six: https://shop.pimoroni.de/products/touch-phat
[8:19] <HighInBC> these work: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/254031556266
[8:21] <HighInBC> i2c version https://www.ebay.ca/itm/HW-535-Raspberry-Pi-1602-LCD-Button-RGB-Display-Expansion-Module-S/254021212108?hash=item3b24d817cc:g:-ywAAOSwVCpcDyDs
[8:22] <Keavon> HighInBC: Hmm, a whole LCD screen seems like overkill but that is certainly cheap and has the right number of buttons.
[8:24] <whodat> anyone here able to assist with controller configs and emulators? im able to get my 8bitdo zero working however it isn't mapping the X & Y buttons, and id like to have some kinda key combo set to "ESC" to exit out of roms back to main menu
[8:28] <Keavon> HighInBC: Do you happen to know what kind of search term I might google for these kinds of illuminated buttons with customizable labels? https://files.keavon.com/file/keavon/2ku80J2OrV5d/lXV51fS6.png
[8:28] <Keavon> That would be the ideal kind of button for the user experience of my project.
[8:28] <HighInBC> no but if you figure it out tell me
[8:29] <Keavon> Haha, ok, I'll let you know if I figure it out.
[8:37] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:41] <whodat> nvm i got it
[8:41] <whodat> has anyone gotten freebsd and wifi working on a pi zero ?
[8:45] * \\Mr_C\\ (mrc@cpe-75-187-160-45.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[9:05] <mlelstv> https://wiki.freebsd.org/FreeBSD/arm/Raspberry%20Pi
[9:06] <mlelstv> says: not supported
[9:12] <phinxy> whodat: NetBSD has X11 and HDMI working with a version made by a guy called Jun. I'm not sure about wifi.
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[9:14] <phinxy> Its a pretty cool OS, the UI (lfce WM?) feels like its a decade old with its analog clock program and the UI color.
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[9:19] <Keavon> HighInBC: I posted a question on electronics.SE about it: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/413542/what-type-of-illuminated-square-buttons-are-used-on-broadcast-switchers
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[14:10] <rynak4> Is there currently a way to play Amazon Prime Videos using a Raspberry Pi (3B) at ~1080p? (I heard of InputStream but it apparently doesn't support decoding with GPU so 720p max.)
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[15:34] <localhohoho> anyone know of a good program to poll CEC codes from a TV remote?
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[15:56] <jiffe> localhohoho: I don't know about programs but there's a cec module for python that I use to determine the TV state
[15:56] <localhohoho> jiffe: do you remember what it's called? i'll just search pip i guess
[15:58] <jiffe> https://github.com/trainman419/python-cec
[15:58] <localhohoho> thanks
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[16:32] <SteelGolem> i'm looking at https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/installation/noobs.md
[16:32] <SteelGolem> and the line
[16:32] <SteelGolem> >Copy the extracted files onto the SD card that you just formatted, so that this file is at the root directory of the SD card. Please note that in some cases it may extract the files into a folder; if this is the case, then please copy across the files from inside the folder rather than the folder itself.
[16:32] <SteelGolem> is pretty unclear to me
[16:33] <SteelGolem> what does "copy across the files from inside the folder" mean?
[16:33] <SteelGolem> specifically "copy across"
[16:33] <SteelGolem> i don't know what this means
[16:34] * xs8tNx_ (~xs8tNx@165.231.210.21) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:34] <SteelGolem> there are 3 folders in the archive, am i supposed to copy the files out of them into the sd card, not preserving the folder tree?
[16:34] * xs8tNx_ (~xs8tNx@165.231.210.21) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:35] <SteelGolem> if that's the case, there are 3 folders inside the OS/ folder, am i supposed to do the same for these too? or should these folders be preserved?
[16:35] <SteelGolem> the 3 folders in os/ are 'libreelec_rpi/, libreelec_rpi2/ and raspbian_full/
[16:35] <SteelGolem> now i have a rasppi3 so that adds to the confusion XD
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[16:36] <SteelGolem> additionally the instruction
[16:36] <SteelGolem> >Copy the extracted files onto the SD card that you just formatted, so that this file is at the root directory of the SD card.
[16:36] <SteelGolem> is unclear, as "this file" is not specified
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[16:37] <SteelGolem> i'm not copying the noobs.zip file over to the sd card, that'd be silly
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[16:38] * BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@host-81-86-119-232.static.as9105.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[16:40] <SteelGolem> after googling some more, i found https://cdn-learn.adafruit.com/assets/assets/000/011/395/original/raspberry_pi_noobscontents.png?1380642179
[16:44] <SteelGolem> here we go. this is exactly the look of the stuff in the zip. so just extract the zip directly to the sd card. https://core-electronics.com.au/media/wysiwyg/tutorials/sam/noobs-install-screenshot.png
[16:44] <SteelGolem> and nevermind with the folder confusion
[16:45] <gordonDrogon> SteelGolem, any reason to not just install raspbian on it?
[16:46] <SteelGolem> because i lack sufficient knowledge about how the flashing process works
[16:46] <SteelGolem> flashing a 64gb sd card with a 3gb image seems like a bad plan to me
[16:46] <gordonDrogon> fetch zip. unzip zip into .img. use etcher to put img onto sd card. put card in Pi. turn on.
[16:46] * davr0s (~textual@host109-155-175-220.range109-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:47] <gordonDrogon> ignore the whole sd card size thing. as long as it's at least 4GB then it'll be fine and will auto-resize.
[16:47] <darkling> With raspbian, after booting, there's a config tool that has an option to grow the FS image to fill the card.
[16:48] <SteelGolem> ohhh
[16:48] <gordonDrogon> darkling, it's been doing that automatically for the past 5 years.
[16:48] <SteelGolem> darkling sorry, i didn't know that would happen
[16:48] <SteelGolem> thanks for telling me
[16:49] <SteelGolem> i assumed i'd lose 61gb
[16:49] * im0nde (~im0nde@2a0a-a540-c0d3-0-ba27-ebff-fe20-c671.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[16:49] <darkling> gordonDrogon: It didn't when I did it last week, although that may have been because I used the minimal image.
[16:49] * BrianG61UK_ is now known as BrianG61UK
[16:50] <SteelGolem> instructions unclear: made my pi into a toaster
[16:51] <gordonDrogon> at 5 watts, it's a slow toaster...
[16:53] * Orionintheforest (~Orioninth@72.35.142.116) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:53] <Orionintheforest> Hello?
[16:53] <gordonDrogon> World.
[16:53] * Aranel (~Aranel@unaffiliated/aranel) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:54] <Orionintheforest> Heheh.
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[16:55] <Orionintheforest> Does anyone know of some simple IRC clients for Pi?
[16:56] <gordonDrogon> why simple? most ought to work just fine. I use XChat.
[16:56] <gordonDrogon> or maybe that is simple - I really don't know as it's what I've used for the past decade or so...
[16:56] <akk> Orionintheforest: weechat is pretty good if you're looking for commandline.
[16:56] <akk> (I use hexchat, though)
[16:57] <noahajac> HexChat is extremely good
[16:57] <noahajac> gordonDrogon: Is XChat still maintained?
[16:57] <Orionintheforest> That's what I'm using currently on my Windows PC. HexChat
[16:57] <chris_99> i think the last update to xchat was years ago according to wiki?
[16:57] <noahajac> I have my Pi running Quassel core, but that's because it isn't the client.
[16:57] <akk> hexchat replaced xchat
[16:58] <Orionintheforest> Yeah, Xchat stopped development and went on to do HexChat
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[16:59] <gordonDrogon> noahajac, I've no idea - it seems to work ok, maintained or not. I don't care for bleeding edge stuff.
[17:00] <SteelGolem> [11:55:41] <Orionintheforest> Does anyone know of some simple IRC clients for Pi?
[17:00] <SteelGolem> telnet
[17:00] <SteelGolem> :>
[17:01] <chris_99> pffft, real irc users use butterflies
[17:01] <noahajac> Multiple telegraph machines terminating to each end of an Ethernet cable, and fast fingers
[17:02] <noahajac> chris_99: Well of course, there's a HexChat command to do that
[17:02] <chris_99> heh
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[17:10] <nils_2> Orionintheforest: i am running weechat 24/7 on raspberry pi and ssh to it. perfect, for me
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[17:31] <frikinz> Hello. I have a basic question about video decoding. I have movies encoding in H265. If I read correctly the rpi3 doesn't support hardware decoding right? But I can use software decoding?
[17:32] <DanielTheFox> you can always do software decoding
[17:32] <vlt> frikinz: You can always use software decoding.
[17:32] <frikinz> :)
[17:32] <DanielTheFox> but take in mind it'll take CPU time
[17:32] <DanielTheFox> so while your GPU will be idle
[17:32] <frikinz> Yes, practically I mean
[17:32] <frikinz> On the rpi3.
[17:32] <DanielTheFox> the poor CPU will be working overtime
[17:32] <tvm> and will choke if the video is higher quality
[17:33] <DanielTheFox> frikinz: are you running your RPi 3 at full speed?
[17:33] <vlt> frikinz: ffmpeg should be able to decode h265.
[17:33] <DanielTheFox> the RPi 3 is faster than the Intel Atom N270
[17:33] <DanielTheFox> I guess you can do 480p decoding realtime
[17:34] <DanielTheFox> my netbook can't decode well above that
[17:34] <DanielTheFox> but your mileage may vary
[17:34] <vlt> realtime?
[17:34] <DanielTheFox> well
[17:34] <tvm> 1080p is possible in certain codecs
[17:34] <DanielTheFox> if it can decode realtime
[17:34] <DanielTheFox> that means you can actually watch the video/movie
[17:34] <tvm> at ~30FPS
[17:34] <DanielTheFox> without it cutting off
[17:34] <vlt> frikinz: Were you talking about realtime?
[17:34] <DanielTheFox> due to CPU not being up to the challenge
[17:35] <DanielTheFox> tvm: legacy MP3+DivX in AVI container, this is kid game in a RPi
[17:35] <DanielTheFox> it was made to run smoothly on earlier Pentium III
[17:35] <DanielTheFox> and these CPUs are far better than Pentium III :P
[17:36] <tvm> i'm talking about contemporary formats
[17:36] <frikinz> vlt: yes realtime
[17:36] <DanielTheFox> now, that's the tradeoff with modern formats
[17:36] <DanielTheFox> they compress better
[17:36] <DanielTheFox> or achieve better quality with same file size
[17:36] <frikinz> vlt: viewing the movie.
[17:36] <DanielTheFox> (or bitrate)
[17:36] <DanielTheFox> buuuut they steal more CPU time
[17:36] <tvm> of course, you just need the processing power
[17:36] <frikinz> but anyway, I'll recode all my x265 I think, not worth it
[17:37] <DanielTheFox> since the majority of my devices can be considered legacy
[17:37] <DanielTheFox> I tend a lot to re-encode to mpeg4 + mp3
[17:37] <frikinz> DanielTheFox: Full speed. I'm not sure. I thought last time raspi_config said not possible to overclock. Need some reading probably
[17:37] <DanielTheFox> in AVI container
[17:37] <DanielTheFox> frikinz: well
[17:37] <DanielTheFox> I actually underclock my RPi
[17:37] <DanielTheFox> so it lasts more with the powerbank
[17:38] <DanielTheFox> my efforts have been worth it: now it lasts 11 hours
[17:38] * gugah (~gugah@181.229.104.38) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:38] <DanielTheFox> but if you run it at stock speed
[17:38] <frikinz> Mine runs kodi mainly.
[17:38] <DanielTheFox> it should be able to run almost everything that has been tweaked to work with the RPi
[17:38] <DanielTheFox> just stay away Python
[17:39] <DanielTheFox> (if you're wondering, I underclock to 180 MHz)
[17:39] <frikinz> DanielTheFox: why with python? Garbage collecting or something similar? Python does complex things behind of course
[17:40] <DanielTheFox> frikinz: generally speaking, Python is slower and takes more memory than using binaries (maybe made in C)
[17:40] <frikinz> Oh yes, that's sure
[17:40] <DanielTheFox> but you get portability as tradeoff
[17:41] <DanielTheFox> (also, spoiled boys with 16 GB RAM and Core i7 at 6.66 GHz don't care)
[17:41] <DanielTheFox> their GPUs are more powerful than my fastest desktop computer altogether :D
[17:41] <frikinz> and quite some librairies. Now a lof of softwares are done in python so it's hard to not play or learn it. Which I had to do 2 years ago..
[17:42] <DanielTheFox> at 1.2 GHz ARMv7 CPU, Python is quite tolerable
[17:42] <DanielTheFox> (but generates heat like a beast)
[17:42] <DanielTheFox> at 180 MHz, however...
[17:43] <frikinz> As a comparison, I also use perl and its much more stable in term of performance
[17:43] <frikinz> And is quicker..
[17:44] <DanielTheFox> older = better :P
[17:44] * DanielTheFox runz
[17:44] <frikinz> But yes, tradeoff language visibility/performance
[17:44] <DanielTheFox> these modern kids don't know what C looks like
[17:45] <DanielTheFox> "is indentation actually optional? what if somebody else reads up the code and notices it's a jumbled mess?"
[17:45] <frikinz> they stopped at SIGSEGV
[17:46] <DanielTheFox> I guess it's harder to write up ninja code in Python :P
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[17:55] <vlt> DanielTheFox: 11 hours from your powerbank at 180 MHz compared to what?
[17:55] * bleepy_ is now known as bleepy
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[17:57] <DanielTheFox> vlt: 6 hours at full speed
[17:57] <vlt> DanielTheFox: Impressive!
[17:57] <DanielTheFox> I also underclocked the GPU and the SDRAM
[17:57] <DanielTheFox> the SDRAM can't really idle
[17:58] <DanielTheFox> if you run it fast, it gets hot
[17:58] <vlt> Is the Raspberry Pi 2 or 3 able, btw, to draw its power from an active USB hub connected to the USB "host" ports?
[17:58] <DanielTheFox> first make sure you won't exceed hub's power output
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[17:59] <DanielTheFox> standard ports are 500mA
[17:59] <vlt> It's a 4 A hub.
[17:59] <DanielTheFox> and you can use at least 1 A per port?
[17:59] <DanielTheFox> (or 2A if you're gonna put heavy metal (HDD, SSD) on RPi's USB ports)
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[18:01] <vlt> Everything is connected to the hub only which should be able to up to 2 A per port. But I'm still not sure: will the Raspberry Pi work when only connected to that hub?
[18:03] <DanielTheFox> anyway
[18:03] <DanielTheFox> if it can provide at least 1 A without losing volts, it'll work
[18:03] <DanielTheFox> my RPi 3 B+ can run from computer USB port, which seems to serve anywhere between 700 mA and 1 A
[18:05] <DanielTheFox> now, if you swear the PSU is fine and the RPi should properly run from it, then blame the cable
[18:05] <vlt> Is there a way to run a virtual Raspberry Pi on an x86_64 architecture (on something like Xen or virtualbox) to prepare SD card images more easily?
[18:05] <DanielTheFox> I think there must be a RPi emulator somewhere
[18:06] <DanielTheFox> but I haven't checked out further
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[18:22] <r3> DanielTheFox: maybe [ https://sourceforge.net/projects/rpiqemuwindows/ ] ?
[18:22] <r3> google also returns [ http://www.rpi-emulator.com/ ]
[18:23] <Khaytsus> Lawd... every day we're talking about emulating other OSes on a system that shouldn't even run a GUI itself it's so enemic.
[18:23] <r3> I don't have GUIs on any of my Pi herd
[18:24] <r3> weird flex, but ok ;)
[18:24] <vlt> Hello. How can I make an fstab entry optional? I mean how do I tell raspbian to mount LABEL=foo to /media/foo but only if it finds it?
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[18:24] <r3> of course, I would just fire up a Pi rather than deal with wonky emulators, but that's just me
[18:25] <Khaytsus> vlt: Um.. like any other distro?
[18:25] <vlt> Khaytsus: Maybe. And how?
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[18:25] <Khaytsus> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fstab
[18:25] <Khaytsus> first google result
[18:26] <Khaytsus> Make sure you look for "nofail" too... so it will not fail if the drive does not exist
[18:26] <vlt> Khaytsus: Thank you!
[18:26] <Khaytsus> so like LABEL=foo /mntpoint nofail,auto,rw,user 0 0
[18:27] <Khaytsus> or whatever makes sense
[18:27] <Khaytsus> so like LABEL=foo /mntpoint ext4 nofail,auto,rw,user 0 0
[18:27] <Khaytsus> ahem. left out fs... whatever filesystem it is of course
[18:27] <Khaytsus> I'm sure there are convuluted ways to do it in systemd too
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[18:47] <jiffe> so seems I broke my respeaker2 setup while working on the camera
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[19:33] <phinxy> How could 1ms to 2ms pulse width be achieved?
[19:33] <phinxy> at 1000hz 50% duty cycle the width is 1ms?
[19:34] <gordonDrogon> if the width is 1mS with 50% duty cycle then it's 500Hz
[19:34] <gordonDrogon> 1mS on + 1mS off = 500Hz.
[19:35] <phinxy> Why would this library have options to set both frequency _and_ duty cycle then? (pigpie)
[19:35] <gordonDrogon> but whatever you want to do, then using the clock output pin (bcm 4) is the correct way to do it.
[19:35] <gordonDrogon> I have no idea - I don't use pigpio.
[19:35] <gordonDrogon> try it and stick a 'scope on it.
[19:36] <phinxy> I'm using pin 18, supposedely theres HW PWM there
[19:36] <gordonDrogon> well - pigpio can use any pin (AIUI)
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[19:36] <gordonDrogon> programming the hardware PWM to generate a frequency - well, it's not really what PWM is for, but it can be done.
[19:37] <gordonDrogon> are you driving servos?
[19:37] <phinxy> I dug out an old brushless motor and ESC. The furthest i've gotten is the motor beeping its in settings mode.
[19:37] <gordonDrogon> if you are, then I think pigpio has a servo module you can use (on any pin).
[19:38] <gordonDrogon> ESC is a "servo" from a control point of view.
[19:38] <gordonDrogon> so you need a pulse from 1mS to 2mS at least every 20mS.
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[19:40] <gordonDrogon> so the frequency is the same - 1/20mS = 50Hz.
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[19:40] <gordonDrogon> radio control 'pwm'.. 40 year old technology )-:
[19:45] <phinxy> That's a fast spin!!
[19:46] <gordonDrogon> what is?
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[19:46] <phinxy> 20,000 RPM or something
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[19:48] <gordonDrogon> I doubt it would go that fast.
[19:49] <ghostboarder> hey guys, anyone here use ipfire on an rpi?
[19:49] <gordonDrogon> the way it works: 19mS of off, and 1mS of on == motor stopped, and 18mS of off and 2mS of on == motor full speed. Both are 50Hz signals.
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[19:52] <phinxy> The motor is specified at 4200 RPM
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[19:55] <gordonDrogon> so you give it a 2mS pulse inside that 20mS window (ie. 18mS off and 2mS on) then it goes at full speed.
[19:55] <gordonDrogon> give it 18.5mS off and 1.5mS on and it's half speed, down to 19mS off and 1mS on when it's stopped.
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[19:56] <gordonDrogon> that would correspond to "hard right" through "hard left" for mechanical servos.
[19:56] <phinxy> It seems this motor is mono-directional
[19:57] <gordonDrogon> the ESC is really a little PIC microcontroller that decodes the PWM and turns it into 3-phase motor control speed.
[19:57] <gordonDrogon> most of these are. designed to drive propellers.
[19:57] <phinxy> yup theres an atmega there
[19:58] <phinxy> it uses the motor to beep
[19:58] <gordonDrogon> you have power drives connected to coils - some people call those speakers :)
[19:58] <gordonDrogon> I've done the same with relays.. :)
[19:59] <phinxy> coils without any membrane, how does that make any vibrations in the air?
[19:59] <gordonDrogon> it oscillates the metal the magnet affects - the motor rotor arm or the relay pull-rod.
[20:00] <gordonDrogon> it's enough to cause tiny vibrations that are quite, but audible.
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[20:00] <gordonDrogon> *quiet
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[20:21] <Orionintheforest> Hello. Has anyone done some kind of security system with the Pi? I'm currently looking at PrivateEyePi and i was wondering if anyone has done something with it or something simular to it.
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[20:23] <Orionintheforest> Sidenote : I went with Irssi for IRC with my pi, that's where im coming from right now~
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[20:47] <phinxy> is it bad the rpi beeps loudly when theres a signal on a pin?
[20:48] <phinxy> The ESC connected to the rpi showed 5V on its battery input which felt odd.
[20:49] <Habbie> beeps?
[20:50] <DanielTheFox> the RPi itself or it's going to whatever speakers are connected to it?
[20:50] <phinxy> It stopped making the noise after a reboot, perhaps there is resonance to some metal part or the PWM circuitry is broken?
[20:50] <phinxy> The Rpi itself
[20:50] <DanielTheFox> weird
[20:50] <phinxy> Just as loud as any PC beeper speaker, really
[20:50] <Habbie> that's special
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[20:55] <phinxy> What if the sound came out of the headphones
[20:55] <Habbie> what if? does it?
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[20:58] <phinxy> Oh yes
[20:58] <phinxy> the hardware PWM
[20:58] <phinxy> makes sound in the in-ear earplugs connected
[20:58] * BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
[20:59] <gordonDrogon> the pi 3.5mm jack output is generated from the hardware PWM.
[20:59] <Habbie> phinxy, right, so the pi itself does not make a beep?
[21:00] <phinxy> I wonder if the motor connected to the ESC could play a song
[21:01] <phinxy> my earplugs seems to work still, the rpi does not make any noise
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[21:04] <Khaytsus> Don't use the pi's audio output for anything critical. It's pretty shoddy.
[21:04] <Habbie> yes
[21:05] <Khaytsus> $5 usb sound card works fine on 'em though
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[21:05] <DanielTheFox> while you're plugging headset in the 3.5mm output
[21:05] <DanielTheFox> the strange beep/sound
[21:05] <DanielTheFox> is actually the video signal trying to get thrown to your ears
[21:06] <chris_99> on the soundcard note, anyone use - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Injector-Zero-sound-Raspberry/dp/B075V1VNDD
[21:06] <DanielTheFox> unfortunately, our ears can't decode NTSC over sound
[21:06] <DanielTheFox> if the beep is too annoying
[21:06] <DanielTheFox> then do sudo tvservice -o
[21:06] <Khaytsus> chris_99: that's cute, but not needed... depends on what you need
[21:06] <DanielTheFox> problem solved
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[22:09] * asabil (~asabil@41.92-221-75.customer.lyse.net) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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[22:21] * cnsvc (~cnsvc@gateway/tor-sasl/cnsvc) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[22:25] * localhohoho (~pi@172.56.7.29) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:28] * sdothum (~znc@dsl-173-206-40-145.tor.primus.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:30] <cinch> i've got issues with my external USB sound card: usually i get crackling audio from it. it takes around 5-10 reboots until the sound comes out clear. uh oh
[22:30] * sdothum (~znc@dsl-173-206-40-145.tor.primus.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:32] <cinch> i'm guessing the rpi isn't providing clean enough power on boot up? i'm using the official power adapter though
[22:33] <Habbie> how much power does the sound card need?
[22:34] <cinch> it uses 0.02 amps when its running, dunno about bootup, shouldn't need much, it's called a Objective DAC
[22:34] <Habbie> right
[22:34] * cnsvc (~cnsvc@gateway/tor-sasl/cnsvc) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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[22:39] * fetzenfisch (~fetzenfis@ipbcc064c6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) Quit (Quit: fetzenfisch)
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[22:53] <friendofafriend> cinch: Do you experience the same issues when using that USB sound card on another PC?
[22:53] <cinch> friendofafriend, nah works fine elsewhere
[22:54] * sdothum (~znc@dsl-173-206-40-145.tor.primus.ca) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[22:59] <friendofafriend> Are you using it with the same output device, as in the same speakers or headphones?
[23:00] <Khaytsus> cinch: Geta $5 syba from amazon :P
[23:01] <cinch> friendofafriend, yeah
[23:01] * cnsvc (~cnsvc@gateway/tor-sasl/cnsvc) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:01] <friendofafriend> cinch: When you do an lsusb, what is the vendor and device number of this device? (xxxx:xxxx)
[23:02] <friendofafriend> Khaytsus: I've got one of those Syba devices, they seem to work pretty well. I've got a USB port replicator with a USB 5.1 soundcard that's also been just fine with this little Pi Zero.
[23:03] <cinch> friendofafriend, 1852:7022 GYROCOM C&C Co., LTD
[23:06] <Khaytsus> friendofafriend: yep, I use 'em all over
[23:07] * nibble_zero (~nibble_ze@37.244.231.177) Quit (Quit: nibble_zero)
[23:10] * apitheia (ae1d2982@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.29.41.130) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] <apitheia> Is there anyway to turn the noobs os/Raspbian_Full folder into a raspbian .img file? I need headless wifi install and my network is being too slow to download the .img directly
[23:14] <HighInBC> I have always just downloaded the raspbian image and wrote that to the card
[23:15] <HighInBC> not familiar with noobs
[23:15] <CyberManifest> noobs is similar
[23:16] <whodat> dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=the.img
[23:17] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[23:17] <apitheia> I already have noobs, it wants to take 13 more hours to download the .img for some reason
[23:19] <CyberManifest> apitheia: on a PC vbox might have tool for that using VBoxManage, I would research that: similar to https://superuser.com/questions/554862/how-to-convert-img-to-usable-virtualbox-format
[23:23] * cnsvc (~cnsvc@gateway/tor-sasl/cnsvc) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:24] <CyberManifest> apitheia: I found this: https://ubuntuhak.blogspot.com/2012/10/how-to-create-format-and-mount-img-files.html
[23:25] * xs8tNx_ (~xs8tNx@185.217.69.172) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:27] <apitheia> and for hardmode, I'm on windows :x
[23:28] <CyberManifest> apitheia: this should help https://maker.pro/raspberry-pi/tutorial/how-to-back-up-your-raspberry-pi-project-files
[23:28] * Envil (~envil@55d4e14a.access.ecotel.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:29] <CyberManifest> apitheia: I think Windows 10 has dd now, haven't used it in a while though, but I see reference to it many times on the net
[23:29] <CyberManifest> apitheia: https://superuser.com/questions/839502/windows-equivalent-for-dd
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[23:39] * cave (~various@h081217094244.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[23:44] * apitheia (ae1d2982@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.29.41.130) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[23:44] * Keanu73 (~Keanu73@2ProIntl/User/Geek/Keanu73) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:47] <ShorTie> scrub noobs and just download raspbian
[23:47] <Habbie> that takes 13 hours, was the problem
[23:48] <Habbie> but sometimes we just have to accept that
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[23:52] * defsdoor (~Andrew@cpc120600-sutt6-2-0-cust232.19-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[23:57] <noahajac> When I was getting bad official download times I used the torrents and that worked well
[23:57] <Habbie> i always use the torrents

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.