#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2019-01-19

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <Lartza> They are tied afaik
[0:00] * strobelight (~quassel@c-69-180-7-202.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:00] <Lartza> And indeed just found a source, the only limiting factor are the tracks on the PCB
[0:00] <Lartza> And your PSU
[0:00] * akk (~akk@97-123-112-214.albq.qwest.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[0:00] * greggerz (~greggerz@unaffiliated/greggerz) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:01] <Lartza> The only difference is that the data pins are connected on the usb port
[0:01] <friendofafriend> So, the practical upshot is that I can fry the Zero with a big enough power supply?
[0:02] <Lartza> You can't
[0:02] * cccyRegeaneWolfe (~cccyRegea@e2.42.5177.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com) Quit (Quit: Ping Timeout)
[0:02] <Lartza> Just like you can't fry an rpi3
[0:02] <friendofafriend> Nuts, I had the oil hot and the batter ready to go.
[0:04] <Lartza> I mean you can fry it with improper voltage of course but really electronics won't pull current they don't need
[0:04] <Lartza> In theory you might be able to fry the tracks if you have a device that can try to pull a lot but I think the tracks can handle any regular USB peripheral load
[0:05] <Lartza> Seems 3 Model A+ is built the same way without 1.2A limit
[0:05] <friendofafriend> I was a little worried about backfeeding power into the USB port that way. I've only done it from a computer's USB port to the Zero, never a stand-alone power supply.
[0:06] <Lartza> In theory you are always backfeeding the zero
[0:06] * mluser-home (~mluser-ho@cpe-24-31-168-101.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:07] <Lartza> Also it's no different to powering a pi3 with a high current supply
[0:07] * tesseract (~tesseract@2001:67c:1562:8007::aac:4344) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:08] <Lartza> Current isn't pushed, it's pulled
[0:09] <friendofafriend> I've had bad times connecting two power sources to the same board.
[0:10] <friendofafriend> Not a Pi, but fried some hard drive controllers that way.
[0:10] <Lartza> Duh, you are inputting from the one PSU to the other and vice versa
[0:10] <Lartza> Would be a bad idea on the zero too
[0:10] <friendofafriend> Duh, why would that be the case at all?
[0:10] <Lartza> Pi3 wouldn't mind probably
[0:11] <friendofafriend> And inputing power into a PSU, how? I thought that was a game of "pulling"?
[0:11] <Lartza> It really depends on how you are plugging them
[0:11] <Lartza> Extra voltage is always bad
[0:12] <friendofafriend> I've got a power supply in PWR and one in USB on a Zero. Am I frying it?
[0:12] <Lartza> The correct question is why do you have two plugged ;)
[0:13] <Lartza> But no, shouldn't fry it
[0:13] <friendofafriend> Well, because I'm backpowering a hub.
[0:13] <Lartza> Uhh what
[0:14] <friendofafriend> So, say I've got a power supply, I've plugged an A-to-A cable into the hub from the supply.
[0:14] <Lartza> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_balancing_(electrical_power)
[0:14] <Lartza> Right
[0:14] <friendofafriend> So, then I want power and data to the Zero.
[0:15] <friendofafriend> I may or may not be providing power to the Zero by way of the data connector.
[0:15] <Lartza> The usual usb-a to miniusb that hubs have, won't power your pi
[0:15] <Lartza> It will power the hub though, to some degree
[0:16] <friendofafriend> So, you've got this hub getting power from an A-to-A cable.
[0:16] <friendofafriend> You've got a USB to mini-USB cable for data.
[0:16] <friendofafriend> You plug that in to the Pi by an OTG adapter.
[0:17] <friendofafriend> I'm guessing here that some hubs would have diodes to keep power from flowing to the host.
[0:17] <moonstroller25> So just plug in a usb with one end cut off and short it out with various voltages to see what happens.
[0:17] <Lartza> any decent hub yes
[0:18] <moonstroller25> :)
[0:18] <friendofafriend> moonstroller25: Maybe this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZhxi6l83I
[0:19] <friendofafriend> Lartza: Well, we might have different opinions of "decent", but what I'm getting at is that a hub may or may not pass power to the host if the hub is being backpowered by an A-to-A cable.
[0:19] * TheSin (~TheSin@d199-126-165-217.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:19] <Lartza> Then it's not USB 2.0 compliant
[0:19] <Lartza> It's not an opinion
[0:20] <friendofafriend> If we are substituting "decent" for "compliant", sure.
[0:20] <Lartza> Compliant is decent in my mind...
[0:20] <Lartza> Otherwise you might just say that you have a hub, with usb ports, but might not be an usb hub
[0:20] <friendofafriend> In your mind, fine. What I'm getting at is that we'd probably both agree that non-compliant hubs exist.
[0:21] <friendofafriend> And that they may provide power to the host.
[0:21] <ldz27> https://elinux.org/RPi_Powered_USB_Hubs
[0:21] <ldz27> "This new USB hub was specifically designed to integrate with the Raspberry Pi Zero
[0:21] <friendofafriend> In the case of the Raspberry Pi Zero, that would forego the need of a separate cable to connect the hub to PWR on the Zero.
[0:21] <ldz27> USB Hub Zero for Raspberry Pi Zero from MSL Digital Solutino
[0:21] <ldz27> "
[0:22] <Lartza> Yes in theory at least
[0:23] <friendofafriend> And just like on that list ldz27 posted, you'll find notes like, "No back-voltage on upstream connection."
[0:23] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[0:23] <Lartza> Yes, because you never want it
[0:23] <friendofafriend> Come on, not the case at all.
[0:24] <Lartza> 100% is in my opinion
[0:24] <Lartza> I'd rather have the extra cable from the hub back to the pi than anything else
[0:24] <Lartza> All times
[0:24] <friendofafriend> You can't come up with a situation where you'd want to put power to the upstream connection?
[0:25] <friendofafriend> I sure can. I'd like to charge a device and use a USB dongle on the data pins.
[0:25] <Snert_> https://elinux.org/RPi_Powered_USB_Hubs#Problem_USB_Hubs <-- details a test procedure.
[0:25] <giddles> hmm i wanna scan over my old hp --> rpi --> cups? --> wlan --> ap ?
[0:25] <giddles> is that possible?
[0:26] <friendofafriend> giddles: You're probably not scanning with cups.
[0:26] <giddles> hmm
[0:26] <friendofafriend> That's usually SANE.
[0:26] <giddles> is there a solution?
[0:27] <Lartza> friendofafriend, So use a hub
[0:27] <friendofafriend> Sure, I guess? Use SANE?
[0:27] <hodapp> are you saying you want to scan over the network?
[0:27] <giddles> yes
[0:27] <friendofafriend> Lartza: Use a hub? I have one micro-USB port.
[0:27] <hodapp> yeah, SANE should let you do that, though I don't know the specifics
[0:27] <Lartza> friendofafriend, Also cables for that exist I think
[0:27] <giddles> tx!!!
[0:27] <friendofafriend> Lartza: I want to charge the device and use a USB peripheral.
[0:28] <Lartza> Ah right, yeah then you get a cable for that
[0:28] <Lartza> I can't remember what they are called, chromecast uses one for getting ethernet plus power
[0:29] <friendofafriend> Right, so it's a valid use-case. If it's USB compliant or otherwise, I wouldn't really know.
[0:29] <Lartza> A usb 2.0 device should never backfeed
[0:29] <Lartza> The cable isn't backfeeding
[0:29] * Leonarbro (~Leonarbro@S01067824af93741c.cg.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] <Lartza> It's just, feeding
[0:29] <friendofafriend> Right, and the USB hub is just feeding, the same.
[0:30] <Lartza> It's backfeeding if the host connection is feeding power to the host
[0:30] <hodapp> it tends to be more a question of "what does the USB thingy violate" than "does the USB thingy violate the specs", since the latter is pretty much always yes.
[0:30] <Lartza> And should never do that
[0:30] <Lartza> hodapp, hehe
[0:31] <friendofafriend> But, knowing that we can (back)feed power into the USB port on the Raspberry Pi, one wonders if there would be problems also powering it by a cable from the powered hub into the PWR connection on the Pi.
[0:31] <friendofafriend> And it's only a concern, as I can't know what hubs have diodes and don't.
[0:32] <Lartza> You can test it, but fair concern
[0:32] <Lartza> If you power from the hub that is backfeeding it isn't a problem, but if you power it from another supply it is
[0:32] <friendofafriend> OK, that's interesting. I don't really understand why that would be.
[0:32] <Lartza> It's all about voltages, and matching them
[0:33] <Lartza> Two parallel supplies won't have the same voltage and the higher will be doing more work
[0:33] <friendofafriend> Ah, OK. That's very interesting.
[0:34] * defsdoor (~Andrew@cpc120600-sutt6-2-0-cust232.19-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:34] <Lartza> If I were more involved with electronics I'd probably be able to tell you why that is but I'm not :P
[0:36] <Lartza> I think the issue is more visible in a scenario where you have a 20A device and you try to parallel two 10A PSU's to it, but you fail to match the wires etc so resistance is different, and all the power is pulled from the one with less resistance first and not shared between the two PSUs
[0:36] * fp7 (~fp7@unaffiliated/fp7) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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[0:36] <Lartza> Or if you want to share two 20A supplies to power your device the one might just idle and the other feed the full 20A
[0:36] <friendofafriend> Oh right, that they'd not be balancing load.
[0:37] <Lartza> Just, get a compliant hub I'd say :P
[0:39] <friendofafriend> Right, but we're giving advice to randos using who-knows-what. I've got quite legit hubs here, but I can't assume the same about everyone.
[0:39] <Lartza> OR alternatively make sure your hub full on backfeeds and forget PWR
[0:40] <Lartza> Since now that I think of it the different resistance will still probably make all power go through only one or the other
[0:40] * happysat (~katpoep@s5594c83f.adsl.online.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:40] <Lartza> But it might not matter, just might make your hub -> PWR cable do nothing
[0:41] <Lartza> I actually even found a blogpost from a person doing both fixing a hub from backfeeding then blogging later on how to use that kind of a hub on a zero
[0:41] <friendofafriend> Yeah. I've got a project where I'd like to use a USB device and charge from a single-board computer with one micro-USB port. I think I've got a hub I can count on to backfeed.
[0:41] <friendofafriend> Or rather, "charge the single-board computer" and use a USB device from it.
[0:43] <Lartza> If a hub is too bulky there really are cables for this https://www.amazon.com/DSYJ-Micro-Samsung-Player-OTHERS/dp/B00CXAC1ZW
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[0:44] <Lartza> Won't work with a phone but might with a SBC?
[0:44] <friendofafriend> Cute features, "plastic", "imported", and "plastic". ;)
[0:44] <friendofafriend> I don't see why it wouldn't work with a phone, but maybe that's a software thing.
[0:46] <Lartza> Phones won't accept power on host mode
[0:46] <Lartza> At least according to my hunch and the comments
[0:47] <friendofafriend> I'm guessing that's an Android thing, and I've got Linux running on some smartphone-like device. Maybe it'll let me get away with it. Thanks for the tip!
[0:49] <Lartza> "USB OTG defines two roles for devices: OTG A-device and OTG B-device, specifying which side supplies power to the link, and which initially is the host. The OTG A-device is a power supplier, and an OTG B-device is a power consumer. In the default link configuration, the A-device acts as a USB host with the B-device acting as a USB peripheral. The host and peripheral modes may be exchanged later by using Host Negotiation Protocol (HNP)."
[0:49] * cccyRegeaneWolfe (~cccyRegea@2b.1f.5177.ip4.static.sl-reverse.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:49] <Lartza> So it's either both or just software
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[0:51] <friendofafriend> So, I guess it's "OTG A but can use data", or "OTG B and can supply it". Strange that.
[0:52] <friendofafriend> I've heard of a fellow making some headway with my particular configuration, so I hope it works.
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[0:55] <Elodin> hello, does any of you run retropie? i'm having trouble with keybinds if anyone can help me
[0:59] <friendofafriend> Elodin: keybinds with what?
[0:59] <hodapp> I run retropie but doubt I'd be of much help
[1:00] <Elodin> Some emulators don't allow me to quit
[1:00] <friendofafriend> Sounds like you'd have to fix that in the emulators that don't work.
[1:01] <friendofafriend> There is also a #retropie where they might have more information about specifics.
[1:01] <Elodin> oh, thanks
[1:03] <friendofafriend> Always welcome, Elodin.
[1:03] <hodapp> hm. much of the point of RetroPie is that it leverages RetroArch to make it so that you don't have to set things in individual emulators, but it's not always perfect
[1:03] <hodapp> Elodin: which emulators don't let you quit?
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[1:05] <Elodin> most of them, i see what you are saying, i'll try to generate the binds manually through ssh then and see what happens
[1:06] <hodapp> wait, you're not setting up keys through the GUI?
[1:06] <Elodin> i did
[1:06] <Elodin> through emulationstation right
[1:06] <hodapp> right
[1:06] <Elodin> it was supposed to spread binds through all retroarch emulators
[1:06] <Elodin> but since it's not working
[1:06] <hodapp> what combo are you trying to use to quit?
[1:07] <Elodin> select + start
[1:08] <hodapp> on keyboard? or what?
[1:08] <Elodin> on a ps2 controller
[1:09] <Elodin> just like this one: https://i.imgur.com/7Yt9vju.png
[1:10] <hodapp> hummm. which emulators work?
[1:10] <Elodin> snes work, but not at every game?
[1:11] <Elodin> how can that be
[1:11] <Lartza> I think that happens even with real hardware
[1:11] <hodapp> can you hit the other combo (I forget exactly what it is, since I forget the "logical" button my controller's buttons are mapped to) to get into the menu?
[1:12] <Elodin> i don't know what other combo this would be
[1:13] <Elodin> i didnt even know there was another combo
[1:13] <Elodin> lemme look around
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[1:19] <hodapp> yeah, there is a RetroArch menu you can get into in most games
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[1:24] <hodapp> my, uhhh, friend uses this menu a lot to save state in certain games that are hard so that he can restore it later after he dies
[1:24] <Elodin> select + x
[1:24] <Elodin> doesn't work either
[1:26] <hodapp> hmmm dang
[1:26] <hodapp> may have to just ask #retropie
[1:26] <Elodin> yeah, i'm waiting around
[1:27] <Elodin> i'll try rewriting the controllers configs for each emulator i think
[1:29] <hodapp> do you have just one controller?
[1:30] <hodapp> i.e. this isn't player 2 or something
[1:30] <Elodin> right now, just this one controller is plugged it
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[1:34] <\\Mr_C\\> is that rock pi 4 official or some bastard rip off?
[1:36] <Elodin> it's raspberry pi model 3 i think
[1:38] * non (~non@173.245.211.117) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[1:38] <\\Mr_C\\> its a clone, nevermind i found it
[1:38] <Lartza> Elodin, Why would it be...
[1:38] <\\Mr_C\\> i hate clones
[1:39] <Lartza> \\Mr_C\\, I mean it has a better soc then the Pi :P
[1:39] <\\Mr_C\\> specs look good, but its not official from the pi foundation
[1:39] <Elodin> Lartza: why would what be?
[1:40] <\\Mr_C\\> its like buying a fake rolex
[1:40] <Lartza> Elodin, I don't see a reference between "it's a rpi 3" and your emulator conversation, so why would rock pi 4 ever be a pi 3
[1:41] <Lartza> \\Mr_C\\, Eh... it's not really a clone though
[1:41] <Lartza> Or a fake rather
[1:41] <Lartza> It's a similar SBC with a different, for better or worse, soc etc
[1:41] <Lartza> I mean in the case of rock pi it might be a clone, but not a fake
[1:42] <\\Mr_C\\> someone else stealing someone elses idea
[1:42] <Lartza> But that will have it's own benefits like case compatibility and peripheral compatibility
[1:42] <Lartza> Not really
[1:43] <\\Mr_C\\> only thing it has good is 4 gigs of ram and 2 usb 3 ports
[1:43] <Lartza> Better SoC, m.2 nvme and emmc, gigabit ethernet
[1:43] <Lartza> It actually looks quite amazing, better than odroid-c2
[1:44] <Lartza> It's mechanically compatible, that's all
[1:44] <\\Mr_C\\> wonder if it will run the official os's
[1:44] <Lartza> No
[1:45] <Lartza> If by official you mean raspberry pi "official"
[1:45] <\\Mr_C\\> raspian and noobs
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[2:30] <moonstroller25> moonstroller25
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[4:34] <mrec> did anyone test SPI? at >100mhz the clock signal looks quite bad
[4:35] <mrec> not sure if that's a power issue
[4:35] <mrec> 64mhz is okay
[4:35] <mrec> or 62...
[4:36] <mrec> I wonder if that's the reason why that sony TV shield only supports DVB-T/T2
[4:36] <mrec> I think I'll make my own shield for it
[4:39] <friendofafriend> Sounds like fun, let us know when you do.
[4:39] <friendofafriend> Maybe you could beat them to the ATSC punch.
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[4:59] <mrec> atsc is no problem
[5:00] <mrec> not sure but it seems I'm able to get a bit more than 6 mb/sec
[5:00] <mrec> 11.2GiB 0:27:32 [6.92MiB/s]
[5:01] <mrec> that's the max transfer
[5:01] <mrec> >100mhz I get >10mbyte/sec but the data is corrupted
[5:02] <mrec> I'll fix one transponder first, the RPI has a second SPI port not sure if that one can do full bandwidth too
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[8:30] <phinxy_> Are all raspberry pi's created equal?
[8:30] <phinxy_> Do they have the same mac address?
[8:31] <Syliss> no
[8:33] <phinxy_> So the four last bits are randomized?
[8:33] <phinxy_> Or the last half of the mac address, not sure how many bytes that is.
[8:34] <Nios34> How to define the raspberry pi's GPIO
[8:34] <Nios34> Mac address can change by yourself
[8:35] <phinxy_> I was thinking isnt it likely two raspberry pi's has the identical MAC?
[8:35] <Nios34> No
[8:35] * tvm (~tvm@host-46-23-50-115.maxtel.cz) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:36] <Nios34> Two same wirless card have different Mac addres
[8:37] <Nios34> MAC address is unique\
[8:40] <Nios34> Allow of them is random
[8:40] <phinxy_> Yep that seems correct
[8:41] <phinxy_> Does anyone know how they burn the MAC address on to the.. silicon? rom?
[8:42] <Nios34> No
[8:42] <Nios34> System can cange it
[8:43] * Envil (~envil@55d4f713.access.ecotel.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[8:43] <Nios34> Using "macchange" can change the wireless card's MAC address
[8:44] * moonstroller25 (~moonstrol@192.119.2.213) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[8:45] <Nios34> For mac address
[8:45] * Saine (~Saine@2a02:908:8c3:4e60:2551:51cb:fc0f:6ea1) Quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
[8:47] <Nios34> It can judge the wireless card's manufacturer by 1~6 digits
[8:47] <Nios34> For example
[8:47] <phinxy_> What do you mean by 1~6?
[8:47] <Nios34> Intel wireless card is 00-07-F6
[8:48] <Nios34> MAC: 00-07-F6-XX-XX-XX
[8:49] <Nios34> Top three digits
[8:49] <Nios34> Top six digits
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[9:00] <Nios34> xD:
[9:01] * Syliss (~Syliss@73.90.211.119) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[9:01] * sdothum (~znc@dsl-173-206-12-67.tor.primus.ca) has joined #raspberrypi
[9:03] <Nios34> = =
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[10:27] <mfa298> phinxy_: the mac addresses on the pi are derived from the serial number which is set on them at production time.
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[10:30] * fredp (~fredp@unaffiliated/fredp) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[10:43] <Snert> I thought it's the other way around.
[10:47] * Darcidride_ (~Darcidrid@37.171.66.12) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[10:58] * im0nde (~im0nde@2a0a-a541-6f94-0-ba27-ebff-fe20-c671.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[11:00] <mfa298> from memory the serial number is longer than the host part of the mac address.
[11:00] <mfa298> also I think the wireless mac is something like the xor of the ethernet
[11:01] * Darcidride_ (~Darcidrid@37.171.66.12) has joined #raspberrypi
[11:02] <mfa298> so in theory there might be some clashes - I don't think there's any guarentee of uniqness in the serial numbers, but the likely hood of getting a clash is pretty low (maybe unless your buying by the million - but then you could probably make certain requests if uniqness really matters)
[11:06] * slv (~slv@209.6.49.147) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:29] <Snert> duplicate macs have been found but it's damned rare like a production mistake
[13:30] * TheGallopingFox (TheGallopi@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/thegallopingfox) has joined #raspberrypi
[13:32] <Snert> and some gear has a changeable mac addy - another avenue of mistake if you don't track or know about it.
[13:35] * m1dnight1 (~m1dnight@ptr-g7gbjui1hyz0jwwnifc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
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[13:54] * f916253 (uid341264@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qclrqurfechqxvmp) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[13:55] * techwave61 (~py@169.48.236.23.bc.googleusercontent.com) has joined #raspberrypi
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[14:09] * Darcidride_ (~Darcidrid@37.171.66.12) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[14:12] * singhyuvraj122 (~singhyuvr@117.204.243.205) Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
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[14:34] <shauno> I suspect they are recycling them by now though. they still only have one OUI assigned, so 16 million unique MAC. given the last few models having two per board, it seems like more sold than available
[14:36] * layeredeggplant (~layeredeg@gateway/tor-sasl/layeredeggplant) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
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[15:53] <Encrypt> Hello everyone
[15:53] <Encrypt> Is there any good Raspberry Pi emulator that I could run on my PC?
[15:54] * toxync21 (~toxync21@223.72.69.251) Quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in)
[15:54] <Encrypt> So that I can develop Ansible playbooks locally before using them live on my Pi
[15:54] <Encrypt> I tried QEMU maybe a year ago, it didn't work well...
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[15:57] * tomty89 (~user@123202047155.ctinets.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:57] <tomty89> can the boot order of an rpi 3 b+ be changed?
[15:58] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:58] <tomty89> i.e. if both the microsd and a usb drive is bootable, boot the usb drive
[15:58] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[15:58] <ShorTie> they use uuid
[15:59] <tomty89> well, i don't mean where the root is
[15:59] <ShorTie> but i don't think so
[15:59] <tomty89> but the drive to load the "bootloader" and so
[15:59] <ShorTie> it's sdcard,usb,net,...
[16:01] * semitones (~semitones@unaffiliated/semitones) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:01] <semitones> Hi
[16:01] <semitones> Is there a standard for wifi speakers
[16:01] <tomty89> yeah nvm i bet it's hardcoded too
[16:02] <semitones> kind of like bluetooth speakers, except the device connects to the speaker over wifi?
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[16:04] <tomty89> i would probably use pulse rtp send/recv on different pis respectively, heh
[16:05] <semitones> for audio?
[16:05] <semitones> i don't know that much heh
[16:05] <tomty89> (with the recv ones connected to speakers via some DAC)
[16:06] <tomty89> I think Chromecast Audio is similar to that, just the protocol is proprietary
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[16:10] <semitones> that sounds pretty cool
[16:10] <semitones> so the pi plugged into the speakers would be running pulse rtp rec
[16:10] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:10] <semitones> and any device outputting would need to be able to do 'pulse rtp send'
[16:11] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:11] <tomty89> yup
[16:16] <tomty89> semitones: IIRC it supports only 16-bit audio though (don't really remember if it can do 96KHz)
[16:17] <semitones> that would be ok, since most of my music is cd quality 16 bit. the bigger question is how to get an android phone to be compatible
[16:17] <tomty89> Well, Termux
[16:17] <tomty89> :P
[16:19] * noobineer (~noobineer@2601:401:8280:32f0:5dd8:40ed:793a:6ead) has joined #raspberrypi
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[16:20] <tomty89> If you are not confortable the cli/tui players then you probably want Chromecast Audio (or Sonos whatsoever).
[16:21] <tomty89> They *might* have better stability as well.
[16:23] * torchic____ (~noturboo@i.am.phantas.tk) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[16:24] * Necktwi (~necktwi@175.101.146.135) Quit (Quit: leaving)
[16:25] <semitones> Yeah, this is trying to be something the whole family can use
[16:25] <semitones> I just found out chromecast audio was discontinued and is out of stock most places :(
[16:28] <tomty89> semitones: https://www.cnet.com/news/best-wi-fi-music-systems/
[16:30] * Asterisk (~asterisk@unaffiliated/asterisk) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[16:31] <tomty89> semitones: techinically you don't *have to* use pulse for both ends I think, though I am not sure if there's any "proper" android player app that supports RTP (in a neat way)
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[16:51] <semitones> gotcha. thanks tomty89
[16:51] <semitones> there's a lot to learn!
[16:52] * andatche (~andatche@mule.andatche.com) Quit (Quit: Bye)
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[17:23] <ThiefMaster> hi, any suggestion on a linux distribution for my pi (an old v1 model) that doesn't come with X etc? i'll only connect power+network so i don't need any GUI
[17:23] <ThiefMaster> i used to run archlinux on it but i haven't updated it since 3 or 4 years so i'd rather get a new image to start from scratch
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[17:36] <BurtyB> raspbian lite?
[17:36] * grummund_ (~grummund@unaffiliated/grummund) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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[19:00] * VasyaTheWizard (~Vassili@unaffiliated/vasyathewizard) Quit (Quit: bye)
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[20:58] <ThiefMaster> raspbian lite doesn't run sshd by default? :o
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[21:01] <leftyfb> ThiefMaster: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/remote-access/ssh/
[21:01] <ThiefMaster> thx, already found it shortly after my message
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[21:27] <addajones> i love my raspberry pi !
[21:27] <addajones> hah. just so excited to have these things, just got my 3rd one.
[21:28] <ShorTie> Cool
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[21:42] <MrPaz> hi, so I'm trying to make a backup of my SD card. When I insert into windows computer, it shows up as two drives E: and F:. E says its the 'boot' drive of 40mb, and F is unreadable. In Win32DiskImager, I choose which drive? E, correct?? THanks
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[21:45] <HighInBC> you may want to backup by imaging the drive
[21:46] <HighInBC> what OS are you running?
[21:46] <MrPaz> rasbian stretch
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[21:48] <friendofafriend> MrPaz: Just one partition will not back up your SD card.
[21:48] <Khaytsus> Winblows
[21:48] <Khaytsus> Does Winblows have a half decent dd yet?
[21:50] <MrPaz> friendofafriend, so what do I do
[21:50] <MrPaz> cant use win32di ?
[21:50] <Khaytsus> that reminds me; I haven't backed up my pi cards in some months
[21:51] <MrPaz> Khaytsus, I have an ubuntu machine too, less adept using that, even less w/ dd so worry about destroying my disk
[21:52] <friendofafriend> MrPaz: It would be a world easier with Ubuntu.
[21:53] <friendofafriend> Just "sudo dd if=/dev/sdX of=./raspi-backup.img"
[21:53] <friendofafriend> And as long as "of=" is a file, you won't be destroying anything.
[21:54] <MrPaz> remind me, ./ puts file where?
[21:54] <HighInBC> in situ
[21:54] <friendofafriend> In whatever directory you run the command from.
[21:54] <MrPaz> oh right current dir
[21:54] <friendofafriend> Your "working directory".
[21:55] <friendofafriend> In Ubuntu, you probably also have gnome-disks, which will make a backup image.
[21:55] <MrPaz> and df to get dev/sdX
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[21:55] <friendofafriend> MrPaz: df only shows mounted drives.
[21:56] <friendofafriend> Your card will probably automount upon insertion, and be there.
[21:56] <friendofafriend> But it would be good practice to umount it before you dd from it.
[21:56] <friendofafriend> If you're looking for something pointy-clicky, a "sudo gnome-disks" is probably for you.
[21:57] <MrPaz> ok I will try that... still a mere initiate of command line wizardry :)
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[21:59] <friendofafriend> MrPaz: A little time on Raspbian will probably fix that. ;)
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[22:07] <MrPaz> friendofafriend, ugh it shows as two drives in both df and disks on ubuntu too
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[22:09] <MrPaz> ie the small boot drive and the larger filesystem. so can I just make an image of the entire sd card or no
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[22:13] <friendofafriend> MrPaz: Sure, that's perfect expected.
[22:13] <friendofafriend> Perfectly.
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[22:14] <friendofafriend> You can make an image of the whole disk. Are you trying to use "gnome-disks" to do it?
[22:14] <MrPaz> yes
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[22:14] <friendofafriend> With gnome-disks open, in the left pane, you should see you SD card.
[22:15] <MrPaz> yup
[22:15] <friendofafriend> Click it, and you should see a disk layout in the main pane.
[22:15] <MrPaz> yup
[22:15] <MrPaz> shows 3 partitions, boot, filesystem, free space
[22:15] <friendofafriend> At the top of the window is the "hamburer icon" that looks like ||| on its side.
[22:15] <friendofafriend> "hamburger icon"**
[22:15] <MrPaz> yup
[22:15] <friendofafriend> And if you click it, you'll see "Create Disk Image". That's you.
[22:16] <MrPaz> yeah, but I can't select all three partitions at once to make a single image it appears
[22:17] <MrPaz> only allows me to select each partition individually and make image
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[22:19] <friendofafriend> "Create Disk Image" makes an image of the whole disk.
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[22:23] <MrPaz> friendofafriend, fyi create disk image only worked when I selected 'boot' partition
[22:23] <MrPaz> which was only 40mb, but then it made a 16gb image, size of the sd card, so I suppose it copied the whole disk
[22:24] <MrPaz> i will test it to make sure
[22:24] <friendofafriend> Sure, that's the whole disk.
[22:24] <friendofafriend> If you look at where the partitions are shown, there's some gears.
[22:24] <friendofafriend> That's where you can click a partition and make an image of just that partition with "Create Partition Image".
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[22:25] <friendofafriend> Such a friendly little program, that "gnome-disks". And hey, you're using Linux like a pro! :)
[22:25] <MrPaz> oh I see
[22:25] <MrPaz> thanks for holding my hand haha
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[22:27] <friendofafriend> Ah, sounds like you figured it out on your own. Linux makes things a lot easier, when it comes to working with disks.
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[22:37] <friendofafriend> MrPaz: Also, that image you made will compress very well, because of the free space.
[22:38] <friendofafriend> So you could run something like "xz -T 0 -v <filename>" on it.
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[22:40] <MrPaz> friendofafriend, what do you mean 'because of the free space'?
[22:40] <MrPaz> and what will the xz command ddo?
[22:40] <friendofafriend> xz is a compression tool, like a zip file.
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[22:41] <friendofafriend> The disk image that you made probably has a lot of free space in it.
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[22:41] <MrPaz> yeah i think it has about half the 16gb free
[22:41] <friendofafriend> Right, so you would expect to save those 8GB and maybe some more.
[22:42] <MrPaz> cool, I'll give it a whirl
[22:42] <MrPaz> it just finished makign the image, so now I'm writign it to a usb to make sure it works
[22:43] <friendofafriend> So, "xz" is the program. The "-T 0" makes as many threads as you have processors, to speed the compression up. The "-v" (verbose) is so it will report progress.
[22:44] <MrPaz> great explanation
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[22:45] <KingBlueSapphire> I'm looking to get a case for my new Pi. Should I look into getting one with a fan / cooling system built in?
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[22:48] <Khaytsus> KingBlueSapphire: Why do you need to cool it?
[22:48] <Khaytsus> I've never cooled any of my pi's
[22:48] <Khaytsus> but I also dont' use them to play games or nonsense on
[22:48] <MrPaz> KingBlueSapphire, I say no. I have one with fan, but pi runs just as well without fan. totally not necesarry. pi's are made to run at low temps don't need cooling, plus fan is annoying
[22:49] <KingBlueSapphire> I don't plan to use it for games
[22:49] <MrPaz> my .02, I'm no expert tho
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[22:50] <friendofafriend> I've got an old northbridge heatsink on my Raspi, with some thermal adhesive tape for LED lighting.
[22:51] <friendofafriend> And you can probably affix any old big honkin' heatsink with a few copper shims.
[22:52] <Khaytsus> Some poeple say their pi's idle at 60c, I've never seen one idle much above 40c
[22:52] <friendofafriend> Ha, I've never seen one idle! :O
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[22:58] <Khaytsus> I consider mine idling most of the time.. they aren't doing anything cpu intensive
[22:58] <Khaytsus> The most one is doing is mjpeg streamer
[22:59] <EdFletcherT137> KingBlueSapphire: I have 5 Zero W units running 24/7 at about 0.3 load, none have fans or heatsinks and all are just fine
[22:59] <EdFletcherT137> KingBlueSapphire: also a Pi 3 running a security cam, no heatsink or fan on it either. they're robust devices, I think you'll be fine.
[22:59] <layeredeggplant> what small pcb keyboards can i solder to the usb pins?
[23:00] <EdFletcherT137> layeredeggplant: curious; why?
[23:00] <layeredeggplant> is there any pcb pushbutton keyboard i can even hook to my pi?
[23:00] <layeredeggplant> trying to build an handheld
[23:00] <EdFletcherT137> there are, but I don't know of why you'd want to solder them to the USB pins!
[23:00] <layeredeggplant> and i want to ditch bluetooth keyboards bc they're bulky
[23:00] <EdFletcherT137> oh, yeah there are a bunch of keyboard things you can find
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[23:01] <friendofafriend> PCB pushbutton keyboard on USB. That's odd.
[23:01] <layeredeggplant> i'd love to get one such as this https://www.tindie.com/products/anthonysavatar/teensy-thumb-keyboard-pcb-only/
[23:01] <layeredeggplant> maybe i'll get that
[23:01] <friendofafriend> I'd use a Blackberry keyboard.
[23:01] <layeredeggplant> bc i want to have full gpio for a hat
[23:02] <layeredeggplant> send me one i cand find on ebay
[23:02] <layeredeggplant> and how to hook it up
[23:02] <EdFletcherT137> layeredeggplant: you can find lots of fun stuff like this on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-3x-3x4-Matrix-12-button-Keypad-Keyboard-Module-RASPBERRY-Pi-esk3x4bbwec/401688665503?hash=item5d86829d9f:g:fEQAAOSwHGJcGBr~:rk:1:pf:0
[23:02] <EdFletcherT137> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Wireless-USB-Keyboard-Keypad-Mouse-For-PAD-TV-Box-PC-Raspberry-PI/273146781454?hash=item3f98d11f0e:g:CZ4AAOSwR8ZayHnM:rk:11:pf:0
[23:03] <EdFletcherT137> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matrix-8-Keypad-Keyboard-Board-Module-8-Button-Tactile-Switch-for-Arduino/401237001121?hash=item5d6b96c3a1:g:h2IAAOSwImRYQzQg:rk:31:pf:0
[23:03] <EdFletcherT137> just depends on what your use case(s) are really
[23:03] <layeredeggplant> lol a full linux desktop
[23:03] <EdFletcherT137> ahhhh gotcha
[23:03] <layeredeggplant> mmh that'd use t9
[23:03] <EdFletcherT137> yeah not really sure there :)
[23:03] <layeredeggplant> watch the one i sent on tindie
[23:03] <EdFletcherT137> yeah that's sweet
[23:03] <friendofafriend> You're talking about this, layeredeggplant? https://www.ebay.com/p/BlackBerry-Q10-OEM-Keyboard-With-Flex-Cable/1666459990
[23:03] <EdFletcherT137> ^NICE
[23:05] <friendofafriend> There are people interfacing them with microcontrollers, you can probably find a PCB file. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wvNBE22Ku8
[23:06] <friendofafriend> And there's more technical discussion here. https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=355709.0
[23:06] * andatche (~andatche@mule.andatche.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:09] <layeredeggplant> friendofafriend: i came on the lastone
[23:10] <layeredeggplant> how can i hook it up to a pi using reasonably sized components tho
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[23:10] <layeredeggplant> i might get the 12$ teensy one with a chinese clone
[23:11] <layeredeggplant> and print this case https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3209958
[23:11] * Syliss (~Syliss@73.90.210.216) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:11] <layeredeggplant> ^ this is the neatest rpi handheld i've seen so far
[23:11] <friendofafriend> Great googly moogly, a Pi 3B+ portable?
[23:11] <layeredeggplant> i only have to find a cheap and thin way to hook a 4g modem in it and i can finally throw my android in the trash bin
[23:11] <layeredeggplant> yeah
[23:11] <layeredeggplant> with a qwerty keyboard
[23:12] <friendofafriend> It's really cool, but I'd probably use a Pi Zero. At least, if you're maining making a terminal.
[23:12] <friendofafriend> mainly**
[23:14] <friendofafriend> Geez, those pictures next to the PocketChip really pull the heartstrings.
[23:14] * nibble_zero (~nibble_ze@37.244.231.177) Quit (Quit: nibble_zero)
[23:20] <Khaytsus> It amuses me to no end people trying to replace desktops with pi's, laptops with pi's, now cellphones with pi's
[23:22] <Khaytsus> It's like if you had to have ONE tool to drive in nails, screws, bend things, etc.. I suppose you'd get a hammer.
[23:22] <Habbie> what? no
[23:22] <Habbie> a screw driver
[23:22] * Very_slow (~Very_slow@CPEc412f5da6ef1-CM84948c4b03d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:22] <Habbie> (sorry, carry on)
[23:22] <Khaytsus> Can't put in nails with a screwdriver
[23:22] <Habbie> it has a fat strong end
[23:22] <Habbie> and a different end
[23:23] <Habbie> have put in more nails that way than i should admit
[23:23] <Khaytsus> I've tapped in a few nails into drywall with a screwdriver for one reason or another, but..
[23:23] <layeredeggplant> i mean
[23:23] <layeredeggplant> i have a linux desktop
[23:23] <Habbie> to be very clear
[23:23] <Habbie> don't
[23:23] <layeredeggplant> a linux laptop
[23:23] <layeredeggplant> linux servers
[23:23] <layeredeggplant> linux embedded
[23:23] <layeredeggplant> and i don't have a fucking pocket linux device
[23:24] <Khaytsus> You have an Android phone
[23:24] <Khaytsus> You just said that
[23:24] <friendofafriend> Oh, Android phones. You're just gasoline today, Khaytsus.
[23:24] <layeredeggplant> its not real linux
[23:24] <Khaytsus> It's not
[23:24] <Khaytsus> k
[23:24] <Khaytsus> Nope
[23:24] * Khaytsus &
[23:24] * pavlushka (~pavlushka@ubuntu/member/pavlushka) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:24] <layeredeggplant> it's a linux kernel
[23:24] <layeredeggplant> but i can't really load mainland linux on most devices
[23:25] <layeredeggplant> postmarketos still sucks
[23:25] <Habbie> layeredeggplant, please mind your language
[23:25] <layeredeggplant> the rpi has an arm cpu similar to modern arm cellphones
[23:25] <layeredeggplant> ok sorry
[23:25] <friendofafriend> Sheesh, I think cell phones have the edge there.
[23:26] * veegee_ is now known as veegee
[23:26] <friendofafriend> It's easy to understand why someone would want a Pi Zero in their pocket. You don't have to futz with Android.
[23:26] <layeredeggplant> maybe having a 90-100% foss environment on my handheld pocket device will also make my mind cleaner and help me organize my stuff
[23:26] <layeredeggplant> >not maybe it will
[23:26] * davr0s (~textual@host109-155-92-146.range109-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:27] <friendofafriend> Conversely, maybe trashing your devices would accomplish the same. ;)
[23:27] * thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[23:27] <layeredeggplant> yeah what if i have to read emails on the bus
[23:28] <layeredeggplant> do i have to stick my laptop out everytime lol
[23:28] <layeredeggplant> or do i have to carry an mp3 player, a digital camera and a stopwatch on me all the times?
[23:28] <friendofafriend> No, but you could use some SSH client on your phone to log into your Raspi over the Internet and mutt away.
[23:29] <layeredeggplant> fact is we are dependent on handheld devices and we sideload communications and mental tasks to them
[23:29] * clearcasting (~clearcast@220.240.15.119) Quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.x-nightly-20190111-e415d9f5 - https://znc.in)
[23:29] <layeredeggplant> friendofafriend: >hits dead zone
[23:29] <layeredeggplant> >rip everything
[23:29] * leothrix (~leothrix@elastic/staff/leothrix) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[23:29] <layeredeggplant> have you ever tried using git on an android?
[23:30] <friendofafriend> Right, or you could lose your Pi Zero handheld and the data on it.
[23:30] <layeredeggplant> i mean you have vr on that thing and you can't even edit code on it
[23:30] <friendofafriend> If by "git on an Android" you mean some git app? No. You use SSH.
[23:30] <layeredeggplant> do to that you have to use weird hacks
[23:30] <layeredeggplant> like termux
[23:30] <layeredeggplant> yeah i already use ssh on my droid
[23:31] <layeredeggplant> it's not the same thing as having a linux desktop on it tho
[23:31] * clearcasting (~clearcast@220.240.15.119) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:31] <friendofafriend> Well, then you could just set up your Pi to be an AP. Power it, connect to the AP, and SSH into the Pi.
[23:31] * davr0s (~textual@host109-155-92-146.range109-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:31] <layeredeggplant> i have a bunch of pis i ssh into all the time
[23:32] <layeredeggplant> in various ways
[23:32] * Syliss (~Syliss@73.90.210.216) Quit (Quit: Syliss)
[23:32] <layeredeggplant> but i just don't like android, java, android apps and the closed source environment
[23:32] <layeredeggplant> and using a terminal on a touch screen feels fake i need a real ctrl button man
[23:32] <friendofafriend> Well, you could find a phone with an unlocked bootloader, build a kernel, put a rootfs on the microSD, and you're off.
[23:33] <layeredeggplant> the postmarketos project is trying to do that
[23:33] <layeredeggplant> no drivers support
[23:33] * drmbls (~drmbls@78-56-83-14.static.zebra.lt) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:33] <layeredeggplant> that's why i want to use a pi
[23:33] <friendofafriend> Trying to? I've got an NVIDIA Shield here that's doing it.
[23:33] <layeredeggplant> bc i could boot riscos or 9front on it if i ever get mad
[23:33] <layeredeggplant> and want to
[23:34] <layeredeggplant> well lol
[23:34] <layeredeggplant> you can do it on a nintendo wii
[23:34] <layeredeggplant> on a nintendo switch
[23:34] <friendofafriend> Right, those Tegra processors are nice.
[23:35] <layeredeggplant> yeah they don't fit in my pocket and have 4g tho
[23:35] <friendofafriend> And it would certainly save a lot of work fiddling with batteries and HID.
[23:36] <layeredeggplant> alright thanks 4 the keyboards guys i'll let you know if i get cheap 4g working on my pi
[23:36] * layeredeggplant (~layeredeg@gateway/tor-sasl/layeredeggplant) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
[23:38] <Khaytsus> termux is not some "weird hack" it works perfectly fine and pretty much does _anything_
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[23:45] * genr8_ (~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[23:49] * thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[23:52] <friendofafriend> Yeah, building a better mousetrap and waiting for a better mouse.
[23:53] * Very_slow (~Very_slow@CPEc412f5da6ef1-CM84948c4b03d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:55] * defsdoor (~Andrew@cpc120600-sutt6-2-0-cust232.19-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.