#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2019-01-20

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:03] * Buster (Buster@2001:470:1f0b:1639::2) Quit ()
[0:03] * shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[0:19] * RebelCoderRU (~RebelCode@82.129.62.222) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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[0:26] * Jeebiss (sid25046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xejtxndymasahuql) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:26] <Jeebiss> Hey guys
[0:27] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[0:27] <Jeebiss> Any thoughts on why a wifi adapter wouldnt be displayed in ifconfig?'
[0:27] <friendofafriend> Jeebiss: Check dmesg.
[0:27] <Jeebiss> I wasnt able to get headless wifi set up, so I hardwired to the router and realized its not displaying my wifi adapter.
[0:28] * yn_ (~yano@freenode/staff-emeritus/yano) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:28] <friendofafriend> What operating system are you using?
[0:28] <Jeebiss> latest raspbian
[0:28] <Jeebiss> what part of dmesg would i be looking at?
[0:28] * ThomasLu_ (ThomasLuon@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/thomasluong) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:28] * d3v (~asdf@bba517335.alshamil.net.ae) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:28] <ShorTie> "my wifi adapter." as in the built in 1 on the pi ??
[0:29] <Jeebiss> oh i am sorry, its an older pi with a usb wifi adapter
[0:29] <Jeebiss> i think its a B+
[0:29] * d3v (~asdf@bba517335.alshamil.net.ae) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:29] <friendofafriend> Jeebiss: OK, do you see the adapter with "lsusb"?
[0:29] <Jeebiss> Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0424:ec00 Standard Microsystems Corp. SMSC9512/9514 Fast Ethernet Adapter
[0:29] <Jeebiss> That seems like it may be it?
[0:30] <friendofafriend> Nope, that's the Ethernet.
[0:30] <friendofafriend> The Raspberry Pi's Ethernet adapter is actually on the USB bus! And you found it! :)
[0:31] * ThomasLuong (~ThomasLuo@c-71-193-183-116.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[0:31] <Jeebiss> interesting
[0:31] <Jeebiss> then no, it doesnt seem to be there
[0:31] <Jeebiss> let me go investigate
[0:31] <friendofafriend> Good idea.
[0:31] <friendofafriend> You may try another port on the Raspberry Pi.
[0:32] <friendofafriend> You may also wish to try that adapter in another machine, to make sure it's working.
[0:32] * ShorTie thinkz dmesg and missing firmware
[0:32] <friendofafriend> It'd still show up in lsusb.
[0:33] <Jeebiss> Okay, i think its in lsusb
[0:33] <Jeebiss> Bus 001 Device 005: ID 04f2:0976 Chicony Electronics Co., Ltd
[0:33] <Jeebiss> i swapped ports and that showed up
[0:34] <friendofafriend> That's a wireless mouse dongle.
[0:34] <friendofafriend> Well, wireless keyboard/mouse dongle.
[0:34] <Jeebiss> http://pasted.co/9dcc519d
[0:35] <Jeebiss> ....
[0:35] <Jeebiss> that may explain why the wifi isnt working lol
[0:35] <friendofafriend> Sure enough. ;)
[0:35] * zlimvos (~zli@dhcp-077-250-068-187.chello.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:36] <friendofafriend> Neat, and it's vulnerable to "MouseJack"! https://www.bastille.net/research/vulnerabilities/mousejack/affected-devices/
[0:37] <Jeebiss> wrong unmarked little black usb adapter
[0:37] <Jeebiss> thank you very much for pointing out my mistake lol
[0:38] * shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) Quit (Quit: shibboleth)
[0:38] * d3v (~asdf@bba517335.alshamil.net.ae) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:38] <friendofafriend> You're very welcome. It's a neat device to have around, anyway. Good luck!
[0:39] * d3v (~asdf@bba517335.alshamil.net.ae) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:42] <Nothing_> any recommendations for a USB hub to power multiple pis?
[0:42] <friendofafriend> Nothing_: Get a power supply with enough amps to do it.
[0:43] * Albori (~Albori@64-251-150-155.fidnet.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:44] <Nothing_> i see
[0:44] <friendofafriend> Nothing_: This is a great starting point. https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/power/README.md
[0:45] <friendofafriend> You may also want to review this. https://github.com/superjamie/lazyweb/wiki/Raspberry-Pi-Power
[0:45] <Jeebiss> i picked up one of these
[0:45] <Jeebiss> https://www.amazon.com/PHEVOS-Universal-Switching-Raspberry-Computer/dp/B074YHN8D1/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=5v+10a&qid=1547941497&s=Electronics&sr=1-5
[0:45] <Nothing_> cool, cool, thanks for the input
[0:45] * synack (~synack@pdpc/supporter/active/synack) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:46] <friendofafriend> Very welcome. Looks like you can adjust voltage on that power supply, so make sure you have a multimeter.
[0:47] <Nothing_> aye
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[1:45] <KingBlueSapphire> Any suggestions for Pi 3b cases that look good and all the ports are accessible
[1:46] * dt3k (~dt3k@unaffiliated/dt3k) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:46] * LeonardBlush (~LeonardBl@2605:e000:1313:8b1b:b40d:5150:bff7:6679) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:47] <ali1234> KingBlueSapphire: pibow coupe
[1:47] * noobineer (~noobineer@c-68-55-196-120.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:47] <ali1234> avoid the clones, they are not as good quality
[1:48] <KingBlueSapphire> Are they sold on amazon?
[1:48] <ali1234> probably
[1:49] <ali1234> what country are you in?
[1:50] * dt3k (~dt3k@unaffiliated/dt3k) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:50] <KingBlueSapphire> USA
[1:52] <ali1234> they are expensive on amazon probably due to shipping
[1:52] <KingBlueSapphire> ah
[1:53] <ali1234> adafruit has them
[1:53] <KingBlueSapphire> Ok ill look into it
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[2:08] <moonstroller25> In the USA I buy my stuff from: https://www.canakit.com/raspberry-pi
[2:08] * tdy1 (~tdy@unaffiliated/tdy) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[2:10] <moonstroller25> I bought two of these and there were a problem from the start: https://www.amazon.com/Smraza-Raspberry-Heatsinks-Supply-Compatible/dp/B01LWURJMI?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01LWURJMI
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[3:39] <rud0lf> hello, is HMDI port in raspberry hotplug?
[3:39] * andatche (~andatche@kyuss.andatche.com) Quit (Quit: bye)
[3:39] * rud0lf total noob in electronics part
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[3:43] <immibis> don't know, but i would be surprised if it isn't. aren't all/most HDMI ports hotplug-able?
[3:47] * SirScott (~scott@c-67-176-100-163.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:47] <hodapp> I have run into problems when powering up the Pi with no HDMI, and then plugging it in while it's on
[3:47] <hodapp> but I've also had no problem switching between displays, provided it had one when I booted it
[3:48] <rud0lf> ok i consider it, thank you
[3:48] <rud0lf> just wanted to be sure before i use it
[3:49] * taza (~taza@unaffiliated/taza) Quit ()
[3:49] * BenderRodriguez (~TaxDodger@unaffiliated/foxhoundz) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[3:50] <SirScott> this is a simple question I know, but I've been using rpi zero w's and soldering wires to the board directly. I was going to try out an rpi3b+, how would I go about soldering to the header?
[3:50] * BenderRodriguez (~TaxDodger@unaffiliated/foxhoundz) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:50] <SirScott> Is there a breakout board or something that can attach?
[3:52] * Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:56] <Jeebiss> you can solder directly to the headers if you want
[3:56] <Jeebiss> or just use jumper wires
[3:56] <CoJaBo> SirScott: any header of the correct size and pitch would work if you want easier connection
[3:57] <CoJaBo> SirScott: there's plenty even sold on pi accessories sites
[3:57] <Snert> if you want to actualy solder to the header.... I wouldn't. Solder to the bottom of the header pins on the bottom of the board.
[3:58] <Snert> I'd use junper wires on the header, not solder.
[3:58] <SirScott> yeah, i'd rather not solder to the header, and jumper wires can slide off too easily.
[3:59] <Snert> it's just an exercise is sophisticated small finder manipulations is all.
[3:59] <Snert> small finger
[3:59] <SirScott> http://mayhewlabs.com/products/pi-screw-terminal-breakout -- that seems pretty nice actually.
[3:59] <Jeebiss> https://www.adafruit.com/product/2310
[4:00] <Snert> that has it's advantages 4sure.
[4:00] <SirScott> oh cool!
[4:00] <Jeebiss> the screw terminal hat is pretty awesome
[4:00] * dirtyroshi (~dirtyrosh@unaffiliated/dirtyroshi) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:00] <SirScott> ok great, looks like there are definitely some options. Thanks everyone!
[4:01] <Jeebiss> ive used these when swapping out completed projects
[4:01] <Jeebiss> https://www.adafruit.com/product/1989
[4:02] <Jeebiss> just solder directly to the board instead of using the headers
[4:05] * tdy1 (~tdy@unaffiliated/tdy) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[4:10] * moonstroller25 (~moonstrol@192.119.2.213) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[4:10] <larsks> SirScott: I like those prototyping boards that Jeebiss mentioned, but you can find them at about 1/4 of the price if you're willing to wait a little longer on shipping, e.g. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-Pcs-DIY-Proto-HAT-Shield-for-Raspberry-Pi-3-and-Raspberry-Pi-2-Model-B/32674294418.html
[4:10] * moonstroller25 (~moonstrol@192.119.2.213) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:15] <Jeebiss> im all about cheaper options, one big difference to consider is the plated through holes in the adafruit one. night and day difference in solderability for newer people
[4:16] <Jeebiss> but definitely get that deal if the budget requires
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[4:30] <Jeebiss> hmmm, if i have previously set up wifi on Raspbian, can i still drop a wpa_supp file into the boot partition to change the wifi info?
[4:31] <larsks> Yes. That's moved over by the raspberrypi-net-mods.service unit, which is configured to run when your pi boots.
[4:33] <Jeebiss> i would overwrite an existing one right?
[4:33] <Jeebiss> it**
[4:33] <larsks> Yes. It just runs "/bin/mv /boot/wpa_supplicant.conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf"
[4:33] <Jeebiss> ah
[4:34] <Jeebiss> for some reason it isnt connecting properly
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[4:37] <Jeebiss> running a pi headless is frustrating when the connection doesnt work
[4:37] <Jeebiss> no information to work with lol
[4:38] * noobineer (~noobineer@c-68-55-196-120.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[4:39] <larsks> I run mostly headless. I find it's often useful to pop the sd card into my desktop and read the logs.
[4:39] <larsks> Also this is super useful: https://www.adafruit.com/product/954
[4:41] <Jeebiss> what does that serial cable provide you with?
[4:41] <Jeebiss> as far as headless pi's go
[4:42] <Jeebiss> also, there is a log file on the sd?
[4:43] <larsks> Jeebiss: the serial cable lets you log into to the pi via the serial console, which is great when you are having network configuration issues.
[4:43] <larsks> There is a log on the sd card, yes (on the linux partition, not in /boot).
[4:43] <Jeebiss> ooooh
[4:44] * david_infinite (~david@dslb-088-067-125-118.088.067.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[4:45] <Jeebiss> logging in via serial would be a great option at this point
[4:48] <Jeebiss> @larsks where are the log files located on the linux partition?
[4:49] <larsks> There are text logs in /var/log/messages and /var/log/*.log (mostly /var/log/messages and /var/log/daemon.log, probably), and then there is the system journal in /var/log/journal which you would read using the 'journalctl' command on another linux box.
[4:50] <Jeebiss> thank you very much
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[4:54] <Jeebiss> Jan 20 03:18:59 raspberrypi dhcpcd-run-hooks[332]: wlan0: starting wpa_supplicant
[4:54] <Jeebiss> Jan 20 03:18:59 raspberrypi systemd[1]: Reached target Network.
[4:54] <Jeebiss> wouldnt that imply it connected correctly?
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[4:59] * lXndr (~lXndr@ip4d156634.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) Quit (Quit: Bye Bye)
[5:00] <larsks> I don't think so. You'd want to see messages from dhcpcd; probably in daemon.log? They look something like this: https://termbin.com/zjfz
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[5:01] <Jeebiss> let me check
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[5:13] <moonstroller25> Hi guys.... what is the command to display the last few lines of a log file?
[5:13] <tristero> moonstroller25: "tail"
[5:14] <moonstroller25> Thks... :)
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[5:26] <DanielTheFox> heh
[5:29] <DanielTheFox> whatever I've done, now only root can see the audio card on my RPi
[5:29] <DanielTheFox> and not even adding my user to audio group works
[5:30] <PhotoJim> did you log off and then back on again after adding your user?
[5:32] <DanielTheFox> even rebooted
[5:32] <DanielTheFox> no dice
[5:34] <DanielTheFox> so, well
[5:35] <DanielTheFox> whatever I've done :D
[5:38] * Permutation (~aww@unaffiliated/danielthefox) Quit (Quit: The server apparently was either shut down or crashed. Report this incident to DanielTheFox as soon as possible.)
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[5:43] <DanielTheFox> lol
[5:43] <DanielTheFox> user pi can use audio
[5:44] <DanielTheFox> very weird
[5:44] <Jeebiss> speaking broadly, if i was going to make a tiny python web server to have a page to control an led strip, would I do all of that in one python app?
[5:44] <DanielTheFox> I can't
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[5:55] <hodapp> Jeebiss: you probably could, though it may not end up as just one Python process
[5:56] <Jeebiss> hodapp: the issue i am running into is that the effects i made originally relied on a sleep command
[5:56] <Jeebiss> but when adding the webserver aspect, i cant do that anymore
[5:56] <hodapp> look into 'multiprocess' perhaps
[5:57] <hodapp> you can have one process runs your webserver, another process do your LED stuff, and something in between them (like a Queue) can pass commands
[5:59] <Jeebiss> ill look into it, thanks
[5:59] * mike_t (~mike_t@95.67.242.206) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:01] <Jeebiss> seems more straight forward than i was anticipating
[6:01] * user2391 (~user2391@191.88.184.32) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[6:03] <hodapp> yeah, multiprocess simplifies a lot
[6:04] <hodapp> typical pattern is to have a loop that is both doing the timed operations and checking a queue of commands (and emptying it each iteration)
[6:04] * moonstroller25 (~moonstrol@192.119.2.213) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[6:07] <Jeebiss> with the simplicity of what i am trying to accomplish, could i further simplify this by just running my webserver in the main thread
[6:07] <Jeebiss> and push the effect into a seperate thread
[6:08] <hodapp> maybe. look at threading.Timer
[6:08] <Jeebiss> really the gist of my entire page is just a bunch of buttons that have effects
[6:09] <Jeebiss> so if a new button is pressed, i need to clear the current effect and run the selected one
[6:09] <Jeebiss> most non static led effects consist of some repeating for loop
[6:09] <hodapp> the thing to be careful of in threading is that you don't have two things using with the same variable at once
[6:10] <Jeebiss> seems easy enough to avoid in this case
[6:10] <hodapp> e.g. if your LED thread is accessing some sort of mode flag, to ensure that your web thread isn't writing that flag at the same time
[6:10] <Jeebiss> ahh interesting
[6:11] <hodapp> it's not an issue with two processes because they share no memory
[6:11] <Jeebiss> i see
[6:12] <Jeebiss> i appreciate the info, i need to do some more reading about the subject
[6:13] <hodapp> this is also something that - I think - Twisted could handle by letting you set up timer callbacks which are then called for you
[6:13] <hodapp> but Twisted is its own beast
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[10:20] <The_Woodsman> has anyone here had experience using anything written in processing on a raspberry pi?
[10:20] <The_Woodsman> i'm having issues running a processing program from the command line on my raspberry pi
[10:22] <The_Woodsman> actually i have an idea...
[10:24] <The_Woodsman> does it sound reasonable that i'd have to set an X11 DISPLAY variable to run Processing, even if the thing i'm displaying it on is not a monitor but an LED strip (an apologies if this is not raspberry pi focused enough, i can ask somewhere else if that's better)
[10:26] * cave (~various@h081217094244.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) has joined #raspberrypi
[10:28] <The_Woodsman> (turns out that was indeed the problem for anyone who's interested)
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[16:40] * danst (~danst@broadband-77-37-174-157.ip.moscow.rt.ru) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:40] <danst> hi, where is bluetooth physically located on raspberry pi 3?
[16:40] <danst> is it in bcm2837 chip?
[16:40] <danst> seems like when I run rpi3 till 75C bluetooth starts fucking up
[16:41] <danst> and I have to hciattach twice
[16:41] <danst> then I guess it cools down and when I run my app it heats up again...
[16:41] <danst> I'm going to install fan anyway, but still curious about physical location of bluetooth chip?
[16:41] <danst> thanks in advance
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[17:32] * sYnfo__ (5631f8d2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.49.248.210) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:32] <sYnfo__> Hey, is there anyone here who has experience streaming from Pi to Youtube?
[17:32] <sYnfo__> *from an USB camera
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[17:35] <\\Mr_C\\> im not sure you can even stream to youtube
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[17:36] <\\Mr_C\\> i thought you can only upload videos already recorded
[17:37] <danst> sYnfo__: you should stream to a more powerful computor
[17:37] <danst> with mjpg-streamer
[17:37] <danst> and add sound to it somehow if you need to
[17:38] <danst> then compress to 264 on powerful computor and send to yt
[17:38] * Giant81 (uid174951@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-trhnlkozarndfmeg) Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
[17:38] <sYnfo__> I was hoping to be able to do it on raspi, given that it has hw encoder for h264
[17:38] <danst> didn't know that, try with ffmpeg maybe?
[17:38] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[17:39] <danst> I'm not sure about performance you get, depends on resolution I guess
[17:40] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
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[17:41] <\\Mr_C\\> motion can stream
[17:41] <\\Mr_C\\> but i didnt know you could stream directly to youtube
[17:41] * Envil (~envil@55d4f713.access.ecotel.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:41] <\\Mr_C\\> apt-get install motion
[17:41] <\\Mr_C\\> simple
[17:42] <\\Mr_C\\> then edit the config file
[17:42] * LeonardBlush (~LeonardBl@2605:e000:1313:8b1b:b40d:5150:bff7:6679) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:42] <\\Mr_C\\> /etc/motion/motion.conf
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[17:54] <wahbl> Hey
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[17:59] <wahbl> just added pi-hole on my raspberry pi great thing to do any other cool projects?
[17:59] * thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[18:00] <\\Mr_C\\> on their website there is a list of probjects
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[18:04] <Khaytsus> I never got pihole to work reliably... the actual dns server itself would randomly stop responding
[18:04] * Leonarbro (~Leonarbro@S01067824af93741c.cg.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:04] <Khaytsus> I think once I disabed ALL logging it was okay
[18:04] <wahbl> Here it runs great I can even using it through vpn
[18:04] <Khaytsus> I can't use it on my own computer because my work uses a lot of tracking stuff and to do testing I gotta be able to load 'em heh
[18:05] <Khaytsus> wahbl: Running great != running reliably
[18:05] <Khaytsus> It does run just fine. For a while.
[18:05] <wahbl> hmm you mean it stops working after a few days?
[18:06] * bitmask (~bitmask@pool-100-35-68-83.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Gone to sleep...)
[18:06] <Khaytsus> At some point less it stops answering dns requests.. the process is there, but it's dead.
[18:06] <Khaytsus> But it seems pretty reliable since I disabled all logging
[18:06] <wahbl> hmm oke
[18:07] * Lorduncan (~Thunderbi@47.63.205.57) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:07] <Khaytsus> Yep looks like I'm still using it by default here, so it's been reliable since
[18:08] <wahbl> I will keep an eye on it
[18:13] * x545 (~sawei@i577B793C.versanet.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[18:13] <x545> re
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[18:30] <moonstroller25> Anyone know how to replace a human at the keyboard with a script?
[18:31] <WereSquirrel> That's pretty vague, can you tell us more about what you're trying to do?
[18:31] * TheSin (~TheSin@d199-126-165-217.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Quit: Client exiting)
[18:31] <moonstroller25> Write a script that will perform the same functions as a person using a keyboard.
[18:32] <wahbl> what functions
[18:32] <Jusii_> any keyboard stroke?
[18:32] <wahbl> you need someone who is typing for you?
[18:32] <Jusii_> rubber ducky then or you could make one yourself with RPi zero I think, as it supports usb otg
[18:32] <Jusii_> https://shop.hak5.org/products/usb-rubber-ducky-deluxe
[18:32] <moonstroller25> Typing.... of course. Lets say I want to send a message to many people using a site that will only allow a human to enter data from a keyboard.
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[18:33] * Jusii_ is now known as Jusii
[18:33] <wahbl> I still don't get it
[18:33] <moonstroller25> I need a bot on my side of the network that will send data in response to information sent in a webpage.
[18:33] * phinxy (~ted@unaffiliated/phinxy) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[18:34] <Fulgen> https://github.com/dee-oh-double-gee/rspiducky
[18:34] <moonstroller25> Like a chat bot but it would be interacting with a media site, not a person.
[18:34] <wahbl> You need a webbased AI bot
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[18:36] <moonstroller25> Tnks Jusii_ that's a nice starting place. :)
[18:36] <moonstroller25> All good ideas. Thank you.
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[18:48] <BlastuR> hello! im playing around with my RPI and a display. I'm hoping that I can use the SPI port on the RPi to control it. However, the Display uses a single pin for both data input and output, so I'd like to use the SPI 3wire mode. The problem is, when I enable 3wire SPI, all my transmits are just zeroes on the MISO pin. If I disable the 3wire mode, MISO works as expected. This thread exactly describes my
[18:48] <BlastuR> problem: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=211331 .. the last reply states "Thinking about it you might need to send two segments to the Linux kernel SPI driver. The first with the bytes to write, the second with the bytes to read." .. anyone know what that means?
[18:48] * ircuser-1 (~Johnny@158.183-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net) Quit (Quit: because)
[18:51] <BlastuR> .. or if anyone have some example code that uses the 3wire SPI mode on RPi
[18:56] <moonstroller25> BlastuR https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/spi/README.md
[18:57] <BlastuR> moonstroller25: yes, i read it. it states that the MISO pin should act as a the MOMI pin when 3wire is enabled
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[19:05] <Waddledee> Hey there. Sorry, lost connection.
[19:06] <wahbl> Good that you found it again
[19:07] <Waddledee> So, I guess let's try the 'turning it off and on again' solution. How can I tell if rebooting the Pi won't screw it up?
[19:07] * Lorduncan (~Thunderbi@47.63.205.57) Quit (Quit: Lorduncan)
[19:08] <Waddledee> I.e., is the update still running?
[19:10] <wahbl> better login into raspberry pi and send reboot
[19:11] * wahbl (~pi@87.214.46.163) Quit (Quit: reboot)
[19:16] <Waddledee> Well, I was able to figure out how to view the apt log and see that it's still doing stuff.
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[20:55] <\\Mr_C\\> does the rpi camera get hot if constantly on?
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[21:04] <ghostboarder> guys, i installed nextcloud on my pizero along with pihole. Now i cant get to the web admin page. I think it may be a result of having multiple web servers installed? Ie. Apache2 and lighttpd. I have seen some threads on reddit about it, but could use some help
[21:06] * swift110 (~swift110@unaffiliated/swift110) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:07] <friendofafriend> ghostboarder: Are they both using the same port?
[21:09] <friendofafriend> ghostboarder: To change the port apache is using, edit /etc/apache2/ports.conf. There you'll find a line that says "Listen 80" change that to something else. Maybe "Listen 88".
[21:09] <ghostboarder> thats a good question. I dont even know. Was just messing around thinking both could run on a pi zero lol
[21:09] <ghostboarder> oh ok....ill try, brb
[21:10] <friendofafriend> And then access apache on your Pi by visiting http://yourpi:88
[21:10] <friendofafriend> You'll have to restart Apache for the changes to be applied.
[21:10] * _gobostone (~Ace@70-59-18-173.hlrn.qwest.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[21:10] <friendofafriend> (With something like "sudo service apache2 restart".)
[21:10] <Khaytsus> yourpi host not ofund
[21:11] <friendofafriend> Darn it, Khaytsus. Add a hosts entry!
[21:11] <ghostboarder> friendofafriend, ok, tried with and without the 2 for apache, and neither file exists. Which web server does pihole use?
[21:12] * gobostone (~Ace@97-118-68-138.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:13] <Khaytsus> lighttp I think
[21:13] <Khaytsus> why?
[21:13] <\\Mr_C\\> does the rpi camera get hot if constantly on?
[21:14] <friendofafriend> You could instead edit /etc/lighttpd/lightning.conf where it says "server.port = 80".
[21:14] <ghostboarder> k. trying now
[21:15] <Fulgen> \\Mr_C\\: try it out
[21:15] <Fulgen> (as in "I think nobody knows here")
[21:15] <\\Mr_C\\> well, i dont want to burn it up
[21:15] <Fulgen> it shouldn't get that hot though
[21:16] <\\Mr_C\\> as i already had to get another because that shitty camera holder from the uk broke my last camera
[21:16] * im0nde (~im0nde@2a0a-a541-8201-0-ba27-ebff-fe20-c671.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[21:16] <\\Mr_C\\> sb components
[21:16] <friendofafriend> \\Mr_C\\: https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/80300/camera-gets-hot-how-much-power-should-it-dissipate
[21:16] <Fulgen> https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/15233/using-the-raspberry-pi-cam-at-110-degrees-celsius might be of interest
[21:16] <\\Mr_C\\> clear camera holder
[21:17] <friendofafriend> Most of the complaints seem to be related to clones.
[21:19] <\\Mr_C\\> i dont have a freakin clone
[21:19] <\\Mr_C\\> i hate clones
[21:20] <friendofafriend> That sounds like what a clone would say.
[21:20] <\\Mr_C\\> yea, im a clone of shawn from 99 years ago
[21:21] <ghostboarder> friendofafriend, ok, check this....this is from lighttpd.conf
[21:21] <friendofafriend> NOOOO
[21:21] <ghostboarder> CHANGES SHOULD BE MADE IN A SEPARATE CONFIG FILE: #
[21:21] <ghostboarder> # /etc/lighttpd/external.conf
[21:21] <\\Mr_C\\> thanks
[21:21] <ghostboarder> apparently lighttpd.conf is overwritten when you do a pihole update
[21:21] * tvm (~tvm@host-46-23-50-115.maxtel.cz) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[21:21] <friendofafriend> Then edit /etc/lighttpd/external.conf .
[21:22] <friendofafriend> And put the line "server.port = 88" in there.
[21:22] <ghostboarder> yeah, well the thing is that external.conf is an empty file
[21:23] <friendofafriend> As root, echo "server.port = 88" >> /etc/lighttpd/external.conf
[21:23] <ghostboarder> will just dumping that line into the config work?
[21:24] <ghostboarder> k done then. restart lighttpd?
[21:24] <friendofafriend> Yep.
[21:25] * mluser-home (~mluser-ho@cpe-107-11-253-108.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:26] <ghostboarder> hmm, it appears lighttpd wasnt running anyway. It doesnt want to start
[21:26] <ghostboarder> looking at journal
[21:30] <friendofafriend> "sudo service lighttpd stop", and then kick it off manually with "sudo lighttpd -f /etc/lighttpd/lighttpd.conf"
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[21:33] <Khaytsus> I had some other stuff running in apache, it converted over to lighttp pretty easy rather than running both
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[21:35] <ghostboarder> k doing now
[21:35] <Khaytsus> I have pihole and my home automation running on the same pi, since it just sits idle otherwise... http post's to turn lights on/off, and for giggles, made a http remote control for my tv so I can control it from the phone but also remotely (like... via alexa+ifttt to turn off tv)
[21:36] <friendofafriend> I've got a Samsung here that I can control with samsungctl, but I've got no way to turn it on except an IR blaster.
[21:36] * gobostone (~Ace@97-118-68-138.hlrn.qwest.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:36] <ghostboarder> k, friendofafriend, can i paste fail output?
[21:36] <friendofafriend> No.
[21:36] * fakefur (~fakefur@ip5b425d57.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:36] <ghostboarder> pastebin
[21:37] <friendofafriend> Use a service like http://paste.debian.net , or pastebin is fine too.
[21:37] * gobostone (~Ace@97-118-68-138.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:37] <Khaytsus> friendofafriend: I dug and dug to finally find the right commands for my tv, then I google that and found someone had written a project to do it via perl. of course.....
[21:37] <ghostboarder> k hold
[21:37] * fakefur (~fakefur@ip5b425d57.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) Quit (Client Quit)
[21:37] <ghostboarder> https://pastebin.com/GLsmgMaf
[21:38] <friendofafriend> Khaytsus: This model is using WebSockets, had to patch the code. Was ugly. :(
[21:38] <friendofafriend> I was hoping for some way to tell the TV to power up by CEC from a Raspi, but so far no dice.
[21:40] <friendofafriend> Ah, as root: echo "server.port := 88" > /etc/lighttpd/external.conf
[21:40] <friendofafriend> And you should be healed.
[21:41] * xrexeon (~xrexeon@197.58.73.80) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:41] <ghostboarder> as root or just sudo?
[21:41] <Khaytsus> This is luckily very simple... it's literally just curl commands ultimately. But they have tokens generated, and json embedded etc... messy
[21:41] <larsks> ghostboarder: if you try using shell redirection (>) with sudo it will not do what you expect (because redirection happens *before* the command executes)
[21:42] <friendofafriend> You could: sudo sh -c "echo 'server.port := 88' > /etc/lighttpd/external.conf"
[21:43] <Fulgen> or echo 'server.port := 88' | sudo tee /etc/lighttpd/external.conf
[21:44] <ghostboarder> friendofafriend, ok just tried that command as root with similar result
[21:45] <friendofafriend> You'll have to be more specific.
[21:45] <ghostboarder> job for service failed because the control process exited with error code
[21:45] <Khaytsus> Look at the error codes..
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[21:45] <ghostboarder> hang on
[21:46] <ghostboarder> https://pastebin.com/jJbsRxDT
[21:46] <ghostboarder> full error text
[21:47] <friendofafriend> Right, so you'd want to "sudo service lighttpd stop", and then execute lighttpd directly.
[21:48] <friendofafriend> "sudo service lighttpd stop", and then kick it off manually with "sudo lighttpd -f /etc/lighttpd/lighttpd.conf"
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[21:49] <Khaytsus> Just for debugging I assume?
[21:50] <ghostboarder> https://pastebin.com/gERuquyd
[21:50] <Khaytsus> Why paste it? fix it
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[21:51] <friendofafriend> So, using <var> := <value> is supposed to override the previous value.
[21:53] <friendofafriend> I see some mention of just editing it in lighttpd.conf, which sounds rather reasonable. https://discourse.pi-hole.net/t/how-to-edit-external-conf-to-override-lightpd-conf-default-port/15712
[21:53] <friendofafriend> But if the lighttpd.conf file is getting clobbered every update, that's sort of a rotten fix.
[21:53] <ghostboarder> ok, thx friendofafriend, will bbiaf and try
[21:53] <friendofafriend> Always welcome, ghostboarder.
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[22:00] <Encrypt> Hello guys!
[22:00] <friendofafriend> Howdy, Encrypt.
[22:00] <Encrypt> Hi friendofafriend :)
[22:01] <Encrypt> I'm going to answer to the support message I got from Kubii
[22:01] <Encrypt> I told them my TV Hat came without the micro-coax adapter :/
[22:01] <Encrypt> Is anyone familiar here with the TV hat by the way?
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[22:02] <friendofafriend> Familiar, sure! A neat little DVB-S2 hat.
[22:02] <friendofafriend> And I'd imagine you're using the standard LinuxDVB tools.
[22:03] <Encrypt> friendofafriend, Well, since it came last Friday without the micro-coax <-> coad adapter
[22:03] <Encrypt> I haven't had the chance to play with it
[22:03] * nshireTimeout is now known as nshire
[22:03] <Encrypt> coax*
[22:04] <friendofafriend> Pity that. I guess you could look around for an MCX antenna. The RTL-SDR dongles come with a (sort of rotten) antenna.
[22:04] <friendofafriend> And I guess you're after over-the-air DVB-S2, right?
[22:05] <Encrypt> I'll plug my home antenna in
[22:05] <Encrypt> I'm living in a neighborhood where we have a common antenna
[22:05] <Encrypt> And each house has coax plugs
[22:06] <Encrypt> shiftplusone, Hello, are you around? :)
[22:07] <friendofafriend> Wow, that's very fortune!
[22:07] <friendofafriend> Maybe you could transmit down the coax and have EncryptTV!
[22:08] <Encrypt> Eh eh
[22:09] * BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a00:23c5:6e55:2b00:288c:63b:8089:6257) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:12] <ghostboarder> actually friendofafriend , ithats probably what did it. Or made it worse in concert with installing then removing Nextcloud
[22:14] <ghostboarder> sorry, referencing above. Updating my pihole then installing nextcloud
[22:14] <Khaytsus> https://github.com/rajannpatel/Pi-Hole-PiVPN-on-Google-Compute-Engine-Free-Tier-with-Full-Tunnel-and-Split-Tunnel-OpenVPN-Configs
[22:14] <Khaytsus> Speaking of pihole
[22:15] <Khaytsus> I've been pondering playing with that.. plus some poeple on reddit have added other function to it
[22:15] <Khaytsus> https://www.reddit.com/r/pihole/comments/aan3jx/pihole_and_pivpn_on_google_compute_engine_free/
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[22:18] <friendofafriend> ghostboarder: If you "sudo rm /etc/lighttpd/external.conf", all the changes we made are reverted.
[22:19] <Encrypt> As far as I'm concerned, I installed unbound and downloaded ads lists
[22:19] <Encrypt> It gives (almost) the same result as PiHole but it's far lighter
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[22:21] <ghostboarder> friendofafriend, should i do that then? will lighttpd just remake the file at start?
[22:22] <friendofafriend> If the lighttpd.conf file references it, you could just "sudo touch /etc/lighttpd/external.conf". It'll probably start up without it.
[22:24] <Khaytsus> Encrypt: I pondered doing all of that with named but it would have been a bit annoying to convert the files...
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[22:27] <ghostboarder> from what i can see it does not
[22:28] * fp7 (~fp7@unaffiliated/fp7) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[22:28] <ghostboarder> maybe ill just do a quick reboot
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[22:30] <ghostboarder> ok friendofafriend , i think im just gonna do a reinstall. No big deal.
[22:31] * dreamon (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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[22:31] * Khaytsus blinks
[22:32] <Khaytsus> Reinstall? Because you typoed in a config file?
[22:32] <ghostboarder> i didnt typo anything
[22:32] <Khaytsus> k
[22:33] <ghostboarder> if you read my whole story above, the files were most likely altered by the combo of a pihole update and then installing nextcloud, including of course another web server as part
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[22:33] <ghostboarder> nothing friendofafriend has mentioned has helped
[22:33] * Khaytsus hands friendofafriend some talcum powder
[22:34] <ghostboarder> or vice versa. Nextcloud before the pihole update
[22:34] <ghostboarder> talcum?
[22:34] <Khaytsus> If those two are just dumping config files into places tey are going to conflict... you'll have to do one of them manually I suspect.
[22:35] <ghostboarder> yeah, thats the question. I have seen users supposedly successfully run both services, but it was a lark for me anyway
[22:36] <Khaytsus> A lot of these things just blindly dump in config files thinking their project is the only one that exists.
[22:36] <Khaytsus> I've seen it over and over
[22:36] <Khaytsus> Because it makes it easier for the end user.. if theirs is the only thing
[22:36] <ghostboarder> seems that way, after tshooting and seeing these files in the same folder
[22:37] <friendofafriend> Khaytsus: Was this supposed to jack me up?
[22:37] <Khaytsus> I'd say you just need to see which one is easier to install manually, or maybe one of them can do a "no config" install where you can manually put the config files in place.
[22:37] <Khaytsus> friendofafriend: No, I imagine all that hand holding has your hands sweaty
[22:38] <Khaytsus> Given lightttp has a conf.d type folder, I dunno why those projects wouldn't name things uniquely so there's no chance of overlap
[22:38] <friendofafriend> Oh, I likes it clammy. IRC, and all. More of an Ajax guy here, for future reference.
[22:38] <ghostboarder> ah. there we go, explanation for that "joke"
[22:38] <Khaytsus> but pihole, as I recall, touches a bunch of files
[22:38] <friendofafriend> If by "joke" you mean *joke*, then yes.
[22:39] <friendofafriend> And troubleshooting these services is pretty easy.
[22:39] <Khaytsus> I remember years ago, as a nub, ininstalling some one-command installer suite of things that had email, calendar, and contacts so I could self-host for a Windows Mobile device.
[22:39] <friendofafriend> You stop the service, you execute the server directly from the command like. It pukes some error at you, Google-fix-rinse-repeat.
[22:39] <Khaytsus> It got about halfway through breaking http and sendmail then failed at trying to set up something else.
[22:39] <friendofafriend> "command like", line**. Sheesh.
[22:40] <Khaytsus> I eventually unthreaded it all and just started restoring config files from backup
[22:40] * MacGeek (~BSD@a-ms3-3.tin.it) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[22:40] <friendofafriend> I really adore these Pi appliances, just splat them on a card an go. Saves lots of time.
[22:40] <Khaytsus> These days if I absolutely needed to do that sort, I'd do it in docker :)
[22:41] <Khaytsus> friendofafriend: Absolutely. Unless you wnat to run 2 of them on a pi, because they're mostly just idle.
[22:41] <Khaytsus> ;)
[22:41] * friendofafriend hands Khaytsus a paper plate with a pile of Ajax on it.
[22:41] <Khaytsus> That's why I use raspbian, even though I'm a Fedora guy
[22:41] <Khaytsus> Because why wouldn't I.. every guide out there is around raspbian
[22:41] <Khaytsus> Why fight it
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[22:41] <ghostboarder> ok guys, scrolling back up to try some commands again
[22:42] <Khaytsus> I have another pi that's 99% idle but it fiddles with everything so much I just leave it alone.... running pi-star, a ham radio thing
[22:42] <friendofafriend> Sometimes I'm a little confused as to why a silly little appliance needs to run on Raspbian. Sheesh, OpenWRT is like 10MB?
[22:42] <Khaytsus> friendofafriend: Not everyone has an openwrt router, but anyone can put a pi online for $10
[22:42] * Flynnn (~textual@unaffiliated/flynnn) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:42] <friendofafriend> Oh no, I mean OpenWRT on a Pi.
[22:42] <Khaytsus> ah gotcha
[22:43] <friendofafriend> It's such a small base install, that if you're just doing something simple like PiHole, it could be a really small download.
[22:43] <Khaytsus> Is there openwrt for a pi? Seems a little silly, given they have gimped network interfaces to start with
[22:43] <friendofafriend> Sure, it's here. https://downloads.openwrt.org/releases/18.06.1/targets/brcm2708/
[22:43] <Khaytsus> cool
[22:44] <friendofafriend> And OpenWRT has a really nice software repo. It probably doesn't do every little thing you want, but the image is 9MB.
[22:44] <Khaytsus> I was checking out some Rock Pi 4 or something that was spammed all over my news feeds the other day, curious if it was a decent pi-like replacement for a small home server. Sounded neat until they got to the point where the distro for it is super unstable.
[22:44] <Khaytsus> friendofafriend: Yeah I hvae openwrt on two routers here.. although tbh I set those things up and forget about 'em completely
[22:45] <Khaytsus> I ahven't been in the router interface on one of them in years
[22:45] * snowgoggles (~snowgoggl@dhcp-c-b6-d2-83-34-5a.cpe.i-zoom.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:45] <friendofafriend> I generally distrust what reviewers say about ARM SBCs. Those RK3399s look pretty cool, I'm more fond of the Exynos processors for a little more.
[22:46] <Khaytsus> friendofafriend: well, they said they updated the system (apt upgrade I suppose?) and it went to shit
[22:46] <Khaytsus> I keep an eye out for such things... but in no big hurry.
[22:46] <friendofafriend> Right, but you know how completely daffy people are. I kind of expect things not to be smooth as silk. Like you said, just... fix it.
[22:47] <Khaytsus> Need dual gigabit, reasonable ram (4g is likely enough), system + bulk storage disk(s)
[22:47] <Khaytsus> And ideally run CentOS on it really...
[22:47] <Khaytsus> friendofafriend: But yeah I know.. there are a lot of people who reivew things that really shouldn't
[22:47] <Khaytsus> Crap, bbl, gotta get moving
[22:48] <friendofafriend> You might check into the RockPro64 board. You can get them with 4G of DDR4 and a mini-PCIe slot.
[22:48] <ghostboarder> friendofafriend, got it!!
[22:48] <friendofafriend> So just a dual-NIC and you're off.
[22:48] <friendofafriend> ghostboarder: Hey! Hooray! Good job!
[22:48] <ghostboarder> ended up changing port to 888 in lighttpd.conf
[22:48] <ghostboarder> strange
[22:48] <friendofafriend> Sounds fine, glad it's working out for you.
[22:48] * BlastuR (~magnus@unaffiliated/blastur) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
[22:49] <friendofafriend> If you do an update and it stops working again, you may have to make the same edit over.
[22:49] <friendofafriend> So it would be smart to backup your configuration file, before that happens. ;)
[22:49] <friendofafriend> Maybe a "sudo cp /etc/lighttpd/lighttpd.conf /etc/lighttpd/lighttpd.conf.bak"
[22:50] <ghostboarder> yes def will
[22:50] <ghostboarder> now....
[22:50] * Envil (~envil@55d4f713.access.ecotel.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:50] <ghostboarder> what service is running a server on 88?
[22:52] <friendofafriend> Well, if you changed your apache configuration to listen there, maybe it's apache.
[22:52] <friendofafriend> You wouldn't have to guess if you use http://<host>:88 or http://<host>:888 or whatever.
[22:53] <ghostboarder> tried 88, dont get a web interface there, so i dont know what is running
[22:53] <ghostboarder> and i didnt change apache.....im not even 100% sure i have it
[22:53] <d0rm0us3> run 'nmap -vvv -sV ipaddr'
[22:55] * echoSMILE (~echoSMILE@unaffiliated/echosmile) Quit (Quit: echoSMILE)
[22:55] <d0rm0us3> also can do a netstat -antp on localhost
[22:55] <friendofafriend> Yeah, netstat is the way to go.
[22:55] <d0rm0us3> will list listening ports and the process associated with the port
[22:56] <ghostboarder> nmap doesnt show a service running on 88.....hmmm
[22:58] <friendofafriend> When you're starting lighttpd, does it complain that the port is in use?
[22:58] * nibble_zero (~nibble_ze@37.244.231.177) Quit (Quit: nibble_zero)
[22:58] <ghostboarder> yeah it did then i changed it in lighttpd.conf
[22:59] <ghostboarder> 2019-01-20 13:45:10: (network.c.464) can't bind to port: 88 Address already in use
[23:00] <ghostboarder> no web service connects at that port though
[23:00] * echoSMILE (~echoSMILE@unaffiliated/echosmile) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:01] * rymate1234_ is now known as rymate1234
[23:01] <d0rm0us3> netstat -antp | grep 88
[23:02] <friendofafriend> Heh, -pant
[23:02] <d0rm0us3> or -aunt
[23:02] <d0rm0us3> for udp
[23:03] <friendofafriend> ghostboarder: Is external.conf still there?
[23:03] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[23:03] <ghostboarder> checking
[23:03] * cave (~various@h081217094244.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:04] <ghostboarder> it is, its empty
[23:04] * jancoow (~jancoow@dhcp-077-251-034-091.chello.nl) Quit (Quit: jancoow)
[23:06] <friendofafriend> Hey, cool.
[23:07] * EdFletcherT137 (~bar@104-1-93-74.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:07] <friendofafriend> So, running a "netstat -pant | grep -i ':88'" gives you no results?
[23:08] <friendofafriend> No lines that include "LISTEN"?
[23:08] * echoSMILE (~echoSMILE@unaffiliated/echosmile) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:09] * echoSMILE (~echoSMILE@unaffiliated/echosmile) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:12] * echoSMILE (~echoSMILE@unaffiliated/echosmile) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:13] <ghostboarder> should i be running that on the pi? Netstat not found! lol
[23:13] <ghostboarder> apt doesnt seem to have either?@!
[23:14] <friendofafriend> Are you capitalizing "netstat"?
[23:15] * redstarcomrade (~quassel@cpe-104-175-255-182.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:15] <ghostboarder> lol no
[23:15] <friendofafriend> It's in the net-tools package.
[23:15] <friendofafriend> So, you can install it with "sudo apt-get install net-tools".
[23:15] <ghostboarder> getting now
[23:15] <friendofafriend> Great news.
[23:16] <Lartza> Nuuuuu
[23:16] <Lartza> friendofafriend, ss
[23:16] <Lartza> pls
[23:16] <Lartza> Don't tell people to install net-tools...
[23:16] <ghostboarder> no listen. only 888
[23:17] <friendofafriend> Absolutely not, net-tools forever.
[23:17] <ghostboarder> Lartza, why not?
[23:17] <Lartza> ghostboarder, https://dougvitale.wordpress.com/2011/12/21/deprecated-linux-networking-commands-and-their-replacements/
[23:17] <Lartza> ghostboarder, It's removed for a reason...
[23:17] <Lartza> It's old and outdated
[23:17] <ghostboarder> i was gonna ask.....deprecated>?
[23:17] <Lartza> And even broken in case of some of the tools
[23:17] <friendofafriend> No, it was deprecated by hipsters. And you know it.
[23:17] <ghostboarder> uh.
[23:18] <ghostboarder> replacement?
[23:18] <friendofafriend> Because UNIX wasn't working for decades just fine, right?
[23:18] <Lartza> ghostboarder, The article lists them, ss for netstat
[23:18] <Lartza> friendofafriend, Eh? How does that magically make net-tools bugs go away?
[23:18] <Lartza> Where the tools are in some cases literally broken
[23:19] <friendofafriend> ss != netstat
[23:19] <Lartza> Did anyone say it is?
[23:19] <Lartza> It's a working replacement for it though
[23:19] * msimpson (~msimpson@cpc138714-sund15-2-0-cust436.11-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:19] <friendofafriend> It's not some direct replacement.
[23:19] <friendofafriend> If it was a matter of bugs, fix the bugs.
[23:19] * andatche (~andatche@kyuss.andatche.com) Quit (Quit: bye)
[23:19] <Lartza> ss -luptn works fine for me :P
[23:20] <ghostboarder> unable to locate package ss
[23:20] <Lartza> That's not how people decided things, get on with times
[23:20] <Lartza> ghostboarder, It should be installed already
[23:20] <ghostboarder> figured id check
[23:20] <ghostboarder> ah. ok i see
[23:20] <Lartza> It's in iproute2
[23:20] <ghostboarder> like netstat output better
[23:20] <friendofafriend> Lartza: "People" didn't decide things. Is the claim all other UNIXes are wrong?
[23:20] <Lartza> Other unixes?
[23:20] <Lartza> What are you even talking about
[23:21] <friendofafriend> *BSD uses ifconfig, come on.
[23:21] <Lartza> Why are we fighting this? netstat is being deprecated, period
[23:21] <Lartza> Maybe BSD didn't break the backend stuff then
[23:21] <friendofafriend> There are people that would have you believe netstat is deprecated.
[23:21] <ghostboarder> i dont care, honestly, as long as it doesnt open any holes to continue its use
[23:22] <Lartza> ghostboarder, net-tools isn't really something that can be used to hack you I don't think no, it doesn't mean it's not broken though
[23:22] <ghostboarder> ahem...so friendofafriend , back to my issue
[23:22] <ghostboarder> no listen on 88
[23:22] <friendofafriend> ghostboarder: Then "grep -i server.port /etc/lighttpd/lighttpd.conf"
[23:22] <ghostboarder> i dont know all of what is in net-tools suite, but i use them frequently im sutre
[23:23] <ghostboarder> 888
[23:23] <immibis> is netstat deprecated because it's unmaintained?
[23:23] <Khaytsus> I still don't like using "ip", I prefer ifconfig still
[23:23] * Khaytsus shakes fist at sky
[23:23] <friendofafriend> It's the tools that should be there, and have been there for decades. You want to make new ones, great. You want to remove the old, that's daffy.
[23:23] * BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a00:23c5:6e55:2b00:28bd:f118:f12d:5e5) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:23] * andatche (~andatche@kyuss.andatche.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:23] <immibis> because if something is unmaintained, complaining doesn't help. if you want it fixed go and maintain it
[23:24] <Lartza> "Keep init.d but also let's have systemd!"
[23:24] <immibis> ifconfig I can understand because it doesn't support a whole bunch of things, but why netstat?
[23:24] <Lartza> And yes net-tools is unmaintained for years
[23:25] <friendofafriend> Awesome, it means my ancient scripts still work.
[23:25] <friendofafriend> And that ancient documentation still holds true. And that's superb.
[23:25] <Lartza> I love your innocent and optimistic world view
[23:25] <friendofafriend> What, that we can just float some new utility and people will take to it?
[23:25] * defsdoor (~Andrew@cpc120600-sutt6-2-0-cust232.19-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:25] <ghostboarder> found the realist!! ->
[23:26] <Lartza> friendofafriend, That the tools that are broken will 100% work
[23:26] <Lartza> I think the last net-tools update is somewhere before 2008
[23:26] <friendofafriend> So, "old" is "broken"?
[23:26] <Lartza> No, broken is broken
[23:26] <Lartza> literally
[23:26] <Khaytsus> My hips feel old, but not broken
[23:26] <Lartza> I'm not saying all of net-tools is broken
[23:26] <Lartza> But you are saying all your scripts will 100% work
[23:26] <d0rm0us3> What in particular IS broken?
[23:27] <friendofafriend> I'm saying practically none of it is.
[23:27] <Lartza> d0rm0us3, Who even knows at this point, it's over 12 years old, at least ifconfig and iwconfig are broken afaik
[23:27] <friendofafriend> Lartza: My scripts will work as well as they did. That's fine.
[23:27] <Lartza> *over 10
[23:27] <d0rm0us3> ifconfig works.
[23:27] <Lartza> friendofafriend, Good for you, thankfully you haven't hit any of the bugs then
[23:27] <d0rm0us3> Cant test wireless...
[23:28] <Lartza> d0rm0us3, Ever single command on every single network card on the latest kernel etc?
[23:28] <Lartza> Like literally every little detail
[23:28] <friendofafriend> I'd say people rarely do, yet the package is missing. And that's batty.
[23:28] <Lartza> friendofafriend, It's still there on the repos, the replacements are readily available...
[23:28] <Lartza> ip works, ss works
[23:28] <Lartza> iw works
[23:28] <friendofafriend> And when I'm setting up networking on a new install, I need to install the tools I'll be using to do it? No.
[23:28] <Lartza> No you need to get on with the times grandpa
[23:29] <Lartza> Or do you still use init.d scripts too?
[23:29] <d0rm0us3> w00000000f
[23:29] <Lartza> And kernel configs from 2.4?
[23:29] <friendofafriend> You need to stop spitting in UN*X and get off my lawn, kiddo.
[23:29] <Lartza> Who cares about the new options
[23:29] <ghostboarder> lol
[23:29] <Lartza> I mean could just run kernel 2.4
[23:29] <Lartza> Surely it works just like net-tools
[23:29] <Lartza> Nothing changes in ten years
[23:30] <Lartza> All I'm saying is don't twist other people into using deprecated tools just because you don't want to, or start maintaining those tools that they aren't deprecated yet and distro maintainers can stop removing them from people
[23:30] <friendofafriend> All I'm saying is don't twist people into using new tools because you think something is broken that isn't.
[23:31] <friendofafriend> And you can refer to BSD for working ifconfig.
[23:31] * happysat (~katpoep@s5594c83f.adsl.online.nl) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[23:31] <Lartza> BSD != Linux
[23:31] <Lartza> And if it works there, good for them
[23:31] <Lartza> Go talk to the Debian maintainers about un-deprecating if it works on Linux too
[23:31] <friendofafriend> Yep, so we should splinter futher? Sounds bright.
[23:32] * puff (~user@pool-72-77-43-111.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[23:32] <Lartza> Or go maintain net-tools actually since you talk about fixing bugs
[23:32] <friendofafriend> "Debian maintainers", loving those systemd exploits.
[23:32] * vaft (~vaft@cpe-24-211-192-145.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:32] <Lartza> Why do you even use Debian if you hate everything it does so much?
[23:32] <friendofafriend> https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2019-January/041971.html
[23:32] * vaft (~vaft@cpe-24-211-192-145.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:33] <Lartza> So?
[23:33] <friendofafriend> I dig that you'd like to undo decade of documentation. That's cool, do you.
[23:33] <Lartza> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/03/msg00780.html
[23:33] <friendofafriend> decades**, rather.
[23:33] <Lartza> I'd love to actually
[23:34] <Lartza> Too much misinformation out there
[23:34] <Lartza> Would love that the commands stopped working and people stopped doing dumb stuff
[23:34] * sepa (~sepa@aperture.GLaDOS.info) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:34] <friendofafriend> It's only "misinformation" because someone decided to mess with utilities.
[23:34] <friendofafriend> And I see those "wrappers" came about, didn't they?
[23:34] <Lartza> "It doesnt support many of the modern features of the linux kernel, the
[23:34] <Lartza> interface is far from optimal and difficult to use in automatisation,
[23:34] <Lartza> and also, it hasn't got much love in the last years."
[23:34] <friendofafriend> Awwwwww, it was unloved. :(
[23:35] <Lartza> Yeah, that's written by the maintainer...
[23:35] <Lartza> of net-tools
[23:35] <friendofafriend> Yeah, super neat. So, they couldn't even make it to the second bullet point? Where are the wrappers?
[23:36] <Lartza> ?
[23:36] <d0rm0us3> I suppose you eschew using telnet as a testing tool for smtp Lartza ?
[23:36] <friendofafriend> the
[23:36] <friendofafriend> first step would be to write wrappers, trying to be compatible with
[23:36] <friendofafriend> net-tools.
[23:36] <Lartza> d0rm0us3, Telnet is deprecated?
[23:36] <friendofafriend> So, these would be where? I don't see 'em.
[23:36] <Lartza> friendofafriend, Yeah probably, what about it?
[23:37] <Lartza> The maintainers didn't have time before that post, why would they after it necessarily
[23:37] <Lartza> They made a roadmap to deprecate a tool that was already beyond expiration date and then failed to deliver on the roadmap for said DEPRECATED tool
[23:37] <friendofafriend> So, the big idea was to replace an "unloved" suite of tools with another "unloved" suite of tools?
[23:37] <Lartza> Who says iproute2 is unloved?
[23:38] <friendofafriend> It is, if they couldn't even write wrappers for compatibility.
[23:38] <Lartza> Why is that the responsibility of the iproute2 maintainers?
[23:38] <Lartza> They have nothing to do with net-tools
[23:38] <friendofafriend> Because they said so, in what you linked.
[23:38] <Lartza> They are writing the new and working tools
[23:38] <Lartza> Those are the net-tools maintainers...
[23:39] * mgottschlag (~quassel@reactos/tester/phoenix64) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:39] <friendofafriend> Gosh, I can't believe we ever used ifconfig in the first place, how backward!
[23:39] <moonstroller25> How can you make the text larger in Hechat?
[23:39] <Lartza> Backward how?
[23:39] <friendofafriend> Exactly. It's not.
[23:40] <Lartza> I don't follow, why would it be backward
[23:40] <Lartza> It was the tool at the time
[23:40] <moonstroller25> Couldn't it be alongside and not backward?
[23:41] <friendofafriend> As it should be, the package is 222KB.
[23:41] <moonstroller25> I still use it all the time.
[23:41] * snowgoggles (~snowgoggl@dhcp-c-b6-d2-83-34-5a.cpe.i-zoom.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[23:41] <d0rm0us3> Some folks just can't accept 'separate but equal'
[23:41] <moonstroller25> But.... I still use lilo :)
[23:42] <moonstroller25> And Slackware.
[23:42] <Lartza> moonstroller25, It could be if it weren't deprecated and unmaintained
[23:42] <Lartza> They existed alongside for years
[23:42] <Lartza> They've been actively removed only in the last year
[23:42] <moonstroller25> Unmaintained is a real problem.
[23:42] <Lartza> Last update to net-tools was before 2008
[23:43] <moonstroller25> What are they replacing it with?
[23:43] <Lartza> So sure, it would be lovely to have them alongside if there weren't any issues with it
[23:43] <friendofafriend> Right, and that's why you saw so many tutorials using "ip"?
[23:43] <Lartza> iproute2, https://dougvitale.wordpress.com/2011/12/21/deprecated-linux-networking-commands-and-their-replacements/
[23:43] <Lartza> friendofafriend, Hmm?
[23:43] <friendofafriend> They existed alongside of each other, why didn't people organically migrate?
[23:43] <Lartza> old habits die hard
[23:44] <friendofafriend> And 222KB breaks the bank, I guess.
[23:44] <Lartza> And if you never touch any of the broken tools, why would you
[23:44] * happysat (~katpoep@s5594c83f.adsl.online.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:44] <Lartza> Why is disk space of any relevance?
[23:44] <Lartza> Oh no iproute2 is almost three megabytes!
[23:45] <Lartza> I'm not sure how my 1TB sd card can hold it
[23:45] <Lartza> Or did you run out of reasonable arguments and try to pile on as many dumb ones as you can?
[23:45] <moonstroller25> God I feel old.
[23:45] <friendofafriend> The size matters, because it's not like you can't shoehorn it into some multigig install anyway.
[23:45] * d0rm0us3 IS old
[23:46] <Lartza> I have nothing against net-tools once you or someone else starts maintaining it and fixing it's issues
[23:46] <moonstroller25> Disk space can be very important if you are a satellite zooming through space.
[23:46] <Lartza> I also have nothing against you using net-tools
[23:46] <friendofafriend> You think removing utilities used by other UNIXes and Linux for decades is "smart"?
[23:46] <moonstroller25> Or a spy ware writer.
[23:46] <Lartza> Yes, when they are broken and unmaintained
[23:46] <Lartza> Or especially when they are
[23:46] <Lartza> Since I also think the switch to systemd was smart
[23:46] <friendofafriend> Yeah, I'm sure you do.
[23:46] <Lartza> But that's another topic entirely
[23:47] <Lartza> And there's... I forget the name of the other decent initd
[23:47] <friendofafriend> runit?
[23:47] <d0rm0us3> systemd, the daemon that is gonna keep on giving over the years
[23:47] <moonstroller25> I don't ming things being unmaintained as long as they are properly archived.
[23:47] <Lartza> I think that's one at least yeah, though isn't runit still kind of bad?
[23:47] <friendofafriend> If systemd is the cure, I'd rather have the disease.
[23:48] <Lartza> openrc is the one I was thinking of
[23:48] <moonstroller25> no fan of systemd.
[23:48] * Buster (Buster@2001:470:1f0b:1639::2) Quit ()
[23:48] <Lartza> I forget which is better though, since I'm just fine with systemd
[23:48] <Lartza> Sadly openrc and runit weren't up to the task when the replacement was needed
[23:48] <immibis> systemd looks great for starting and managing daemons - the problems with it are not really related to its core function
[23:48] <immibis> writing init scripts is a pretty dumb way to do things
[23:48] * TheSin (~TheSin@d199-126-165-217.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:49] * thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[23:49] <friendofafriend> I wonder when systemd will have more lines of code than the kernel.
[23:49] <moonstroller25> JAs an old computer person. I get tired of learning new things so..... I don't change a lot anymore. I still have Slackware 1.0
[23:50] <moonstroller25> I'll be glad when AI takes over the job and all I have to do is ask questions.
[23:51] * snowkidind (~textual@216.15.40.124) Quit (Quit: See Ya Later Alligator!)
[23:51] <moonstroller25> If something is not broke.... don't fix it.
[23:51] <immibis> I say that as someone who works on embedded software and gets tired of writing identical init scripts for various processes, that all have slight differences
[23:51] <Lartza> moonstroller25, I also don't think there's anything especially wrong in that if you aren't exposing yourself to security issues, but telling other people to install Slackware 1.0 today is
[23:51] <moonstroller25> Good point.
[23:51] <Lartza> Also I don't agree with "if something is not broke" fully
[23:51] * Albori (~Albori@64-251-150-155.fidnet.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[23:51] <Lartza> I never have really
[23:52] <moonstroller25> It's on a raspberry pit server.... I only play with it from time to time.
[23:52] <moonstroller25> The computer's older than the 1.0. :)
[23:53] <Lartza> Because really, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" includes you not updating systemd when they find critical vulnerabilities. It works fine for you and nobody has hacked you yet!
[23:53] <moonstroller25> And I'm not asking anyone to install slackware 1.o Lartza......
[23:53] <Lartza> :P
[23:54] <Lartza> But that was the whole point in the discussion
[23:54] <moonstroller25> I'm using Linux Mint on the broken Laptop.
[23:54] <friendofafriend> That breaking standard tools is a good idea?
[23:54] <Lartza> friendofafriend was helping ghostboarder, told them to use netstat, oh the command doesn't exist, install net-tools
[23:54] <Lartza> friendofafriend, No, you telling people to install Slackware 1.0
[23:54] <friendofafriend> Yep, absolutely. It's a fix for it no longer being included.
[23:55] <friendofafriend> Heck, if it's such a bad idea, go see if you can get it out of the repos.
[23:55] <moonstroller25> I have a copy at home if anyone what's it. :)
[23:55] * fp7 (~fp7@unaffiliated/fp7) Quit (Quit: fp7)
[23:55] <Lartza> Why does it need to get out of the repos?
[23:55] <friendofafriend> Why have a problem with installing it?
[23:55] <Lartza> Because it's deprecated and ss works?
[23:55] <moonstroller25> :)
[23:56] <Lartza> Because it's bad advice?
[23:56] * lurkian (~admon@213.57.200.118) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:56] <moonstroller25> How manyu people still use Plain c coding instead of plus or some other kind?
[23:56] <friendofafriend> It's grand advice. Possibly the best advice ever.
[23:56] <Lartza> Says only you
[23:56] * TheSin{Ti} (~TheSin@d199-126-164-200.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:56] <friendofafriend> When he goes to use ifconfig like a normal human being, he'll have ol' friendofafriend to thank for it being there.
[23:57] <Lartza> moonstroller25, Pff who uses C with or without pluses? Rust ftw ;P /s
[23:57] * TheSin{Ti} (~TheSin@d199-126-164-200.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:57] <moonstroller25> The whole Idea of people like us PLAYING with computers is so that the world can become a more better place.
[23:57] <Lartza> moonstroller25, Bad advice never makes the world a better place
[23:57] <Lartza> And there's nothing you need to play with net-tools, just use iproute2
[23:57] <ghostboarder> you guys are STILL arguing?
[23:58] <friendofafriend> You can bet your bottom latte that it'll make life easy for the average user.
[23:58] <moonstroller25> If it does service to the one person it is intended, it is good advice.
[23:58] <Lartza> ghostboarder, Apparently so, I hate bad advice
[23:58] <moonstroller25> WE are not trying to heal the world here.
[23:58] <Lartza> moonstroller25, That's not how good advice works...
[23:58] <friendofafriend> Come on, you break the user experience of decades. The problem is you and your ilk.
[23:58] <Lartza> Hey, you have a permissions problem, sudo chown -R 777 /
[23:58] <moonstroller25> AT age 67 I know what good advice looks like and sounds like.
[23:58] <Lartza> It works so it's good advice!
[23:58] <Lartza> Right?
[23:59] <Lartza> moonstroller25, So chowning your whole system 777 when you can't write to a file is good advice?
[23:59] <Lartza> Since it fixes the issue
[23:59] <moonstroller25> It depends on it's intended purpose. Use a crutch is good advice for a limping person but not for everybody.
[23:59] <Lartza> friendofafriend, I wasn't the one who deprecated net-tools
[23:59] <friendofafriend> Nice try conflating the two, we're not talking about wrecking permissions with net-tools here.
[23:59] <immibis> does anyone actually know WHY it's deprecated?

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