#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2019-01-21

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <Lartza> immibis, Last update before 2008 and doesn't fully work with modern kenel
[0:00] <immibis> so it's unmaintained
[0:00] <moonstroller25> I would not chown to 777 my system. :)
[0:00] <immibis> in which case, like I said already, bitching fixes nothing, go maintain it yourself
[0:00] <Lartza> ^
[0:00] <immibis> and then it might be undeprecated
[0:00] <Lartza> ^^^^^^
[0:00] <Lartza> I've said that too
[0:00] <moonstroller25> The question should be.... is there a good reason to do it sometimes?
[0:00] <immibis> at the very least you could add compatibility wrappers into iproute2
[0:00] <Lartza> Like they planned to
[0:00] * TheSin (~TheSin@d199-126-165-217.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[0:01] <Lartza> But, see the definition of "unmaintained" and note that it stayed in that state even after plans
[0:01] <immibis> the software didn't stay unmaintained, everyone on earth collectively decided not to maintain it
[0:01] <immibis> it's not the software's fault
[0:01] <friendofafriend> "This has a few consequences, but most people should not notice." https://www.archlinux.org/news/deprecation-of-net-tools/
[0:01] <friendofafriend> How's that working out?
[0:01] <Lartza> That's a REALLY old blogpost lol
[0:02] <Lartza> But I say last seven years, perfectly fine
[0:02] <friendofafriend> Oh, the "people not noticing" part? Really?
[0:03] <Lartza> Most people won't even run ifconfig so yes
[0:03] <immibis> correct: nobody has suffered due to the package being deprecated
[0:03] <immibis> Lartza: i'd think most arch linux users probably will
[0:03] * d0rm0us3 does
[0:03] <Lartza> Maybe
[0:03] <friendofafriend> Lartza: You have got to be kidding.
[0:03] <Lartza> The installation guide points you to use ip though
[0:03] <friendofafriend> "Most people won't even run ifconfig"?
[0:03] <immibis> friendofafriend: most people won't even run linux
[0:03] <Lartza> Why would you as a Debian user? Maybe Arch user like immibis said but
[0:04] <Lartza> And when you try to use it, you research or come to IRC and then know the tools are deprecated
[0:04] <friendofafriend> Maybe you're really new to UNIX, or something.
[0:04] <moonstroller25> Crap.... I"ve fogotten what the topic was...... :)
[0:04] <Lartza> And the ball rolls and more and more people know
[0:04] <Lartza> I mean relatively new yes
[0:04] <Lartza> moonstroller25, net-tools is deprecated, don't recommend it to people
[0:04] <immibis> I find ip syntax is hard to remember compared to ifconfig
[0:05] <Lartza> Certainly, I've learned eventually now
[0:05] <d0rm0us3> immibis +1
[0:05] <immibis> ifconfig <interface> <address> vs. ip link set <interface> up; ip addr add <address>/<prefix-length> dev <interface>
[0:05] <friendofafriend> That's cool, Lartza. I get it. You've started, and you see the documentation includes it. That's fine.
[0:05] <moonstroller25> What if they are using a depreciated OS? Just might be playing around with stuff you know.
[0:05] <friendofafriend> UNIX has been around long enough to have extremely well-established ways of doing things.
[0:05] <Lartza> moonstroller25, I mean iproute has been around for years at this point
[0:05] * thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:06] <immibis> let me reiterate though. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT BEING DEPRECATED THEN MAINTAIN IT
[0:06] <Lartza> friendofafriend, iproute is 20 years old know afaik
[0:06] <friendofafriend> So, the philosophy is not to burn decades of documentation regularly.
[0:06] <Lartza> And my relatively new to unix is 12 years
[0:06] <immibis> friendofafriend: there is no such philosophy
[0:06] <moonstroller25> That is a reasonably good point to make immibis
[0:06] <Lartza> ^
[0:06] <moonstroller25> Maintain it.
[0:06] <friendofafriend> If you burnt every UNIX book that included ifconfig at once, you could likely see the flames from space.
[0:07] <moonstroller25> :)
[0:07] <Lartza> Good riddance, write new ones
[0:07] <immibis> I'm not maintaining it because clearly I don't care enough to do so. If it gets removed then I guess i'll just deal with it and use iproute2. It's not impossible, it's just a mild annoyance
[0:07] <Lartza> Yeah, it really seems friendofafriend is the only one here who cares
[0:07] <immibis> now, if there was NO command to set an IP address on an interface, someone (probably still not me) would care enough to write one or take over net-tools
[0:08] <friendofafriend> Lartza: You wanted to call installing net-tools bad advice. I think we've established that you're wrong.
[0:08] <moonstroller25> I fall back to my basic argument.... I hate to learn new things. so I have old stuff to play with..but...... I' still program bare metal. :)
[0:08] <Lartza> friendofafriend, We have?
[0:08] <immibis> but you know, you can't blame other people for not doing something that they're not responsible for doing, if you aren't doing it either
[0:08] <friendofafriend> Yep, certainly have.
[0:08] <Lartza> I fail to see how
[0:08] <friendofafriend> "Most people won't even run ifconfig." --Lartza
[0:09] <Lartza> Yes, they literally won't
[0:09] <Lartza> They'll have networkmanager running in no time or dhcp has already pulled them an IP
[0:09] <friendofafriend> Of course they do. It's practically "ls" for network interfaces.
[0:09] <Lartza> More points?
[0:09] <moonstroller25> This argument is mute, disorderly and non informative at this point. I suggest you take some time out. I have a more serious question.
[0:09] <Lartza> I can just open up network manager and see my interfaces
[0:09] <immibis> moonstroller25: moot
[0:09] <moonstroller25> or mute.
[0:09] <moonstroller25> sound less
[0:10] <moonstroller25> moisy but not informative.
[0:10] <friendofafriend> Lartza: That's neat, Network Manager!
[0:10] <immibis> I don't like the amount of magic in networkmanager that I don't understand, but at least half of it is my fault for not learning about networkmanager
[0:10] <d0rm0us3> moot actually means a topic IS arguable
[0:10] <Lartza> friendofafriend, I know! I usually use systemd-networkd nowadays but
[0:10] <Lartza> Each to their own
[0:10] <Lartza> That's the fun in Linux
[0:10] * jelly (jelly@pdpc/supporter/active/jelly) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[0:10] <Lartza> There's usually more than one way of doing things
[0:10] <moonstroller25> It's an anology Lartza.
[0:11] <moonstroller25> I have a serious question perhaps you could answer it.... ready?
[0:11] <Lartza> And sometimes not any one of them is any more correct than the other!
[0:11] * obihann (~obihann@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:11] <moonstroller25> Quit drinking coffee.... Decafe works.
[0:11] <friendofafriend> Lartza: Great. "sudo apt-get install net-tools" it is.
[0:11] <Lartza> No
[0:11] <moonstroller25> How do you increase the size of the text in Hexchat?
[0:12] <Lartza> Use ip or ss
[0:12] <Lartza> or iw
[0:12] <Lartza> net-tools is deprecated
[0:12] <Lartza> !next
[0:12] <friendofafriend> Listen, *you* like it. You can say you like it.
[0:12] <moonstroller25> Okay moving on with Next.
[0:12] <friendofafriend> That's great. To say it's "wrong" is silly.
[0:12] <Lartza> Go maintain it
[0:12] <d0rm0us3> interface appearance
[0:12] <moonstroller25> How do you increae the size of the text in hexchat?
[0:12] <d0rm0us3> has a field for setting font as well as font size
[0:13] <Lartza> You're literally the first person who didn't go "ah, old habits" when I told them to use ip or ss
[0:13] <Lartza> And it's just totally absurd
[0:13] <ghostboarder> since moonstroller25 is asking, how the heck do i get my text to come up as an alternate color? i have this crap grey color that i cant read
[0:13] <ghostboarder> in hexchat
[0:13] <moonstroller25> I'm gonna move on and let you boys have the floor. I think that would defeat the purpowse of #raspberrypi
[0:13] <friendofafriend> moonstroller25: Preferences > Appearance > Font
[0:13] <Lartza> moonstroller25, You are always welcome in #hexchat :P
[0:13] <d0rm0us3> settings preferences
[0:14] <d0rm0us3> friendofafriend +1
[0:14] <moonstroller25> But is the company friendly?
[0:14] <Lartza> I don't personally use it nowadays but still hang out there
[0:14] <ghostboarder> test
[0:14] <ghostboarder> bah
[0:14] <Lartza> Yes, and I've never seen this kind of an argument on this channel before to be honest
[0:15] <Lartza> Usually it's either a matter of opinion or sides agree...
[0:15] <immibis> friendofafriend: for the record, one day net-tools will suddenly not work and there will be nobody to fix it
[0:15] <friendofafriend> Sorry people fall for that clap, Lartza.
[0:15] <friendofafriend> I'm not apologizing for expecting a well-entrenched utility to be there. Removing it was the problem.
[0:16] <Lartza> You don't need to apologize for anything in my opinion
[0:16] <immibis> deprecation means people are preparing for that day when it suddenly won't work, by switching to alternatives
[0:16] <moonstroller25> Okay much better.
[0:16] * Albori (~Albori@64-251-150-155.fidnet.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:16] * bmlzootown (~bmlzootow@unaffiliated/bmlzootown) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:16] <moonstroller25> Your welcome there too Lartza.
[0:16] * malmalmal (~malmalmal@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:17] <friendofafriend> moonstroller25: We're all welcome.
[0:17] <moonstroller25> Lartza if you think this type of argument is unusuall. you should have been around when we were inventing IRC.
[0:18] <Lartza> Hehe, yeah like I said I've only been at it for around 12 years
[0:18] <moonstroller25> Yes we are friendofafriend.
[0:18] <moonstroller25> A child you are my lad.
[0:18] <Lartza> And it's just that this channel is usually fairly calm, friendofafriend would have been banned from other channels at this point really
[0:18] <Lartza> And on others it's more common to see arguments
[0:18] <moonstroller25> And... when you get old you will forget 3/4 of all you learn.
[0:18] <d0rm0us3> <facepalm>
[0:19] <Lartza> d0rm0us3, At me? I'm only stating facts I know
[0:19] <Lartza> #archlinux is vicious
[0:19] <Lartza> ;)
[0:19] <friendofafriend> Lartza, then go me banned dude.
[0:19] <Lartza> moonstroller25, I used netstat for a looooong time after starting to get used to ss, ip
[0:20] <moonstroller25> You guys are tame.... I don't see any reason to ban anyone yet but... I'm unusually benovlent.
[0:20] <Lartza> friendofafriend, On here? I don't think there is need or grounds for this channel
[0:20] <friendofafriend> Cool, then why bring it up?
[0:20] <moonstroller25> So Lartza, in your opinion what is the best set of netools out there to date?
[0:20] <Lartza> Because it was on the discussion?
[0:21] <Lartza> moonstroller25, Net tools as in a network manager like NetworkManager or?
[0:21] <d0rm0us3> tools that are easy to use and don't require a gui to use
[0:22] <Lartza> friendofafriend, I said this is unusual for this channel, and that other channels would have stopped it or had it more usual
[0:22] <Lartza> I mean I use systemd-networkd nowadays because it comes with the system
[0:22] <moonstroller25> Net tool so solve all problems associated with wifi and cable connections. I had a cable connection problem with a raspberrypi just yesterday.
[0:22] <Lartza> Not sure how it works with wi-fi though
[0:22] <Lartza> I don't really use wi-fi almost anywhere, my rpi is a pi2 still and even if it weren't ethernet rocks
[0:23] <moonstroller25> How do yo detect a raspberry pi is connected to your computer via a cable connection. I use tcpdump to moniter the network.
[0:23] <friendofafriend> Lartza: Right, and that I would have already been banned over talking about net-tools. That's cool. Go ahead and see if you can make it happen.
[0:23] <ghostboarder> since we are talking about it.....anyone use ipfire on a pi?
[0:23] <moonstroller25> Come on guys I really want to know the answers.
[0:23] * VarunAgw_ (~VarunAgw@unaffiliated/varunagw) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[0:24] <Lartza> friendofafriend, I can't and don't want to? Why do you want to?
[0:24] <moonstroller25> If you plug and unplug a cable while monitoring with tcpdump you can see the new ip address.
[0:24] <Lartza> moonstroller25, My router has a device list :P
[0:24] * Arcaelyx (~Arcaelyx@2604:2000:f146:7c00:408e:6bab:f3d0:9ee6) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:24] <moonstroller25> Okay... explain how to use device list.
[0:24] <d0rm0us3> /gag Lartza
[0:24] <moonstroller25> Or point to page.
[0:25] <Lartza> Huh?
[0:25] <moonstroller25> :)
[0:25] <Lartza> The easiest is to just have avahi or bonjour and use raspberrypi.local...
[0:25] <moonstroller25> and the page where that is explaind is......
[0:25] <Lartza> Uhh
[0:26] <Lartza> https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/remote-access/ip-address.md
[0:26] <Lartza> Doesn't mention bonjour though
[0:26] <synack> it's been renamed so many times
[0:26] <synack> bonjour was the apple trademark for it, the generic name is mDNS
[0:26] <Lartza> What has been renamed?
[0:26] <Lartza> It's still Bonjour
[0:27] <moonstroller25> I only have 10 years left to live... I don't want to waste it reading about avahi and bonjour. when some experts can direct me of explain in a shorter period of time. So thank you.
[0:27] <synack> moonstroller25: sudo apt-get install avahi-daemon
[0:27] <Lartza> moonstroller25, You install and run avahi and then it just works...
[0:27] <moonstroller25> I already have it.
[0:27] <Lartza> Then raspberrypi.local should work
[0:27] * VarunAgw (~VarunAgw@unaffiliated/varunagw) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:27] <Lartza> or rpihostname.local rather
[0:27] <Lartza> synack, Or rather, it's Bonjour on Windows thus the name used for it
[0:28] <Lartza> Like it's Avahi on Linux
[0:28] <friendofafriend> Wow, I wish I knew how much longer I was going to live. Ten years guaranteed I could really go for. ;)
[0:28] <moonstroller25> I saw it when I was using dhcpcd
[0:28] <moonstroller25> in the dameon log.
[0:28] <friendofafriend> moonstroller25: You were getting an APIPA address, right?
[0:28] <moonstroller25> But it did not show any link of another device when I plugged cable in.
[0:29] <moonstroller25> I'm hooking two rapi's together with a cable.
[0:29] <moonstroller25> The same conversation you and I were discussing the other night FoF.
[0:29] <synack> you need a crossover cable
[0:29] <moonstroller25> Not anymore.
[0:29] <synack> no?
[0:29] <synack> neat
[0:29] <moonstroller25> synack
[0:29] <ShorTie> na, those a thing of the past
[0:29] <synack> I didn't realize the pi had mdi-x
[0:30] <moonstroller25> pi is a beautiful playtoy.
[0:30] <synack> ah, apparently the 2 didn't, 3 and later do
[0:30] <ShorTie> Yuppers ... :)
[0:30] <synack> I still have lots of pi 2s kicking around
[0:30] <moonstroller25> Good info synack.......
[0:30] <moonstroller25> The 2 didn't have it really?
[0:31] <moonstroller25> Can you post a link?
[0:31] <friendofafriend> Wowzers. Hope you're getting a lot of use out of them, synack.
[0:31] <moonstroller25> I have a 2 by my bead playing music so I can get to sleep :)
[0:31] <synack> moonstroller25: nevermind, I'm wrong, I'll stop helping now
[0:31] <moonstroller25> bed.. not bead.
[0:31] <moonstroller25> Don't do that... I really didn't know.
[0:31] <moonstroller25> :)
[0:32] <moonstroller25> Now I know.
[0:32] <moonstroller25> See how others lack of knowledge can turn into group knowledge.
[0:32] <moonstroller25> Can't beat the human brain.
[0:32] <synack> some AI is reading this going "just you wait..."
[0:33] <moonstroller25> Sorted that cable problem out yet Lartza?
[0:33] <Lartza> Huh?
[0:33] * skinny852 (skinny852@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/skinny852) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:33] <Lartza> I can confirm the Pi doesn't need a crossover cable, not sure what you meant though
[0:33] <moonstroller25> How to detect when you plug a cable into two Rpi the ip address on the the headless pi.
[0:34] <synack> it depends.
[0:34] * ThiefMaster (thief@indico/developer/thiefmaster) has left #raspberrypi
[0:34] <Lartza> How does mDNS work if two devices end up as raspberrypi.local :S
[0:34] <moonstroller25> I have a network with one very fact laptop and a host of headless Rpi doning a lot of different tasks.
[0:34] <synack> it'll initially try to act as a dhcp client from both sides, which will eventually time out, and it'll get assigned something like 169.254....
[0:35] <moonstroller25> Being old I hate to walk upstairs where I have two plugged in with a cable.
[0:35] <synack> if you seutp dhcpd on one of them, you can configure it to hand out addresses to the other
[0:35] <synack> but then the one running dhcpd will need to have a static IP
[0:35] <moonstroller25> So I need to detect the ip address change, if one occures on the two headless pi's.
[0:35] * ebarch (~ebarch@c-24-23-127-193.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:35] <moonstroller25> Good point synack... but... I don't want to set a hard ip address.
[0:36] <moonstroller25> on a machine.
[0:36] <synack> if you don't want any static IPs anywhere, then yeah... autoconf/avahi/bonjour is the way to go
[0:36] * thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[0:37] <moonstroller25> I did notice that if you run tcpdump you can read the file and notice the change. It's on another computer in another room or I would post it here.
[0:37] <moonstroller25> I could go in the other room and use the computer there. That's what Ill do.... back in a min.
[0:38] <synack> I *think* IPv6 autoconf will respond to pings of ff02::1 for link-local addresses
[0:38] * moonstroller25 (~moonstrol@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:38] * d3v (~asdf@bba517335.alshamil.net.ae) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[0:39] * d3v (~asdf@bba517335.alshamil.net.ae) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:40] * EdFletcherT137 (~bar@104-1-93-74.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:40] * moonstroller25 (~moonstrol@ has joined #raspberrypi
[0:40] <moonstroller25> Good.. I'm back.
[0:41] <moonstroller25> On a raspberry pi 3 + with 5g
[0:41] <moonstroller25> Dang... gotta let the dogs out.
[0:41] <moonstroller25> BRB
[0:42] * waveform (~waveform@waveform.plus.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[0:45] * leorat (~rat@unaffiliated/leorat) Quit (Quit: leorat)
[0:46] <mawk> hi
[0:46] <mawk> what's a good way for handling interrupts on gpio ports from userland ?
[0:46] <mawk> can't the kernel like wake my thread ?
[0:49] <moonstroller25> Ok.... Here is the listing from tcpdump when I unplug/plug in the cable on two cable connected pi's.
[0:49] <moonstroller25> Plus-1.local., (Cache flush) A, (Cache flush) PTR RP3-Plus-1.local., (Cache flush) AAAA fe80::b7b1:a5dd:5a6a:e574 (195)
[0:49] <moonstroller25> 18:45:59.314996 ARP, Request who-has RP3-Plus-1.local tell RP3-Plus-1.local, length 28
[0:49] <moonstroller25> 18:45:59.644509 IP VidCam.local.mdns > 0*- [0q] 4/0/0 (Cache flush) PTR VidCam.local., (Cache flush) A, (Cache flush) PTR VidCam.local., (Cache flush) AAAA
[0:49] <synack> mawk: assuming you're running a recentish kernel, libgpiod is the way to go. here's an example using the python bindings https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/libs/libgpiod/libgpiod.git/tree/bindings/python/examples/gpiomon.py
[0:49] <moonstroller25> Notice the two ip addresses. If I could find these in a log file somewhere that would be great.
[0:49] * thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) has joined #raspberrypi
[0:50] <synack> moonstroller25: arp -an
[0:50] <synack> you may need to install net-tools
[0:50] <moonstroller25> Thks.
[0:50] <moonstroller25> Ok.
[0:50] <synack> moonstroller25: but based on that output, VidCam.local should resolve
[0:51] <moonstroller25> aynack and be posted where?
[0:51] <moonstroller25> synack and be posted where?
[0:51] <mawk> nice synack
[0:51] <mawk> how is it working under the hood ? there's polling on a file in /sys ?
[0:51] <mawk> I'm in C, not python
[0:51] <mawk> if it's plain poll()ing I can do it
[0:51] <Lartza> synack, Didn't we just have a discussion about this :P
[0:51] <synack> moonstroller25: it's not written to a file, glibc knows how to resolve that by talking to avahi-daemon
[0:51] <Lartza> Just saying...
[0:52] <synack> mawk: the new way is /dev/gpiochip0 which has a bunch of nasty ioctls that libgpiod provides a clean interface to
[0:52] <moonstroller25> Does the daemon make a log entry?
[0:52] <mawk> ah, nice
[0:53] <synack> moonstroller25: not by default, you might be able to increase the verbosity in the avahi configuration
[0:53] <Lartza> moonstroller25, Does it need to since nothing changes?
[0:53] <synack> moonstroller25: but if you're just connecting two pis directly together and arp returns what you need, don't bother with avahi
[0:54] <Lartza> synack, ip n
[0:54] <synack> sure
[0:54] <synack> "ip neigh" is the modern equivalent of arp
[0:54] <synack> I always forget that one
[0:54] <mawk> getent ahosts vidcam.local
[0:55] <mawk> without avahi tools
[0:55] <synack> whoa, neat
[0:55] <synack> I didn't know there was a command for that
[0:56] <synack> manpage says it's been there since at least glibc 2.2.5... clearly I've not been paying attention
[0:56] <moonstroller25> synack..... if I knew how the pi creats the ip address in the first place I could just recreate it into to text file and send it via email or something. The address is on the Rpi in question.
[0:56] <friendofafriend> moonstroller25: That's just an APIPA address that you're getting because no DHCP server was contacted.
[0:56] <moonstroller25> Exactly.
[0:56] <moonstroller25> How is the APIPA address created.
[0:57] <mawk> sounds like systemd
[0:57] <mawk> systemd likes to do that
[0:57] <mawk> dhcpcd also
[0:57] <Lartza> raspbian uses dhpcpd by default
[0:57] * Essadon (~Essadon@81-225-32-185-no249.tbcn.telia.com) Quit (Quit: Qutting)
[0:57] <moonstroller25> I was checking with dhcpcd but no solutions
[0:57] <moonstroller25> I'm using Raspbian.
[0:57] * thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[0:58] <synack> I thought all the autoconf stuff happened in the kernel
[0:58] <mawk> for ipv6 yeah
[0:58] <mawk> it's in the kernel
[0:58] <friendofafriend> moonstroller25: Well, you can set it manually with a configuration file.
[0:58] <mawk> but he's talking about an ipv4 link-local address
[0:58] <mawk> from
[0:59] <moonstroller25> Yes I know that. but I may have to fix someoen else's computer and get it running very fast. I won't have the time.
[0:59] <moonstroller25> you are correct mawk....
[0:59] <moonstroller25> Where does that address come from, how is it generated?
[0:59] <mawk> it's an address valid only on the ethernet switch the pi is connected to
[1:00] <mawk> it can't cross routers
[1:00] <moonstroller25> How is a APIPA address created?
[1:00] * Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[1:00] <mawk> and it's generated from the MAC address I think, or random
[1:00] <mawk> either way you can't count on it
[1:00] <mawk> you should get a proper address either by DHCP or by statically configuring it
[1:00] * obihann (~obihann@ Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[1:00] <moonstroller25> I can have two computers connected and still use wifi on either one of them.
[1:00] <mawk> yeah wifi or ethernet switch
[1:01] <mawk> same thing, more or less
[1:01] <moonstroller25> I just want to be able to determine the address (if it changes. I don't know if it does). And fast.
[1:01] <mawk> the .local thing is good
[1:01] <moonstroller25> Power can shut down... electriciy can go off.... stuff like that.
[1:01] * redstarcomrade (~quassel@cpe-104-175-255-182.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:02] <moonstroller25> I have power back up.
[1:02] * Milhouse (~Milhouse@kodi/staff/milhouse) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:02] <moonstroller25> But it no batteries at this time.
[1:02] <mawk> if you really really can't properly assign a static ip to the device / configure your dhcp server to set the hostname inside a LAN-local dns server, then you can use the .local trick
[1:02] <synack> "ip monitor"
[1:02] <moonstroller25> Let's say I only have three min. to do this.......
[1:03] <mawk> well it's not a trick, it works pretty well; until there's a conflict or something and you end up with vidcam-1.local instead of vidcam.local
[1:03] <mawk> so it's not exactly the most robust method
[1:03] <synack> moonstroller25: if something needs to be done in a hurry, you should script it so that you're not trying to remember and type random ass commands in a hurry
[1:03] <moonstroller25> Currently I have this computer connected to the Vidcam computer and controlling it via the cavle while using wifi.
[1:03] <friendofafriend> Right, you'd just statically assign an address. Maybe run a dhcpd server.
[1:03] <moonstroller25> synack. when I know the solution I will write script. :)
[1:04] <synack> you've been given at least three different ways here already
[1:04] * finalbeta (~finalbeta@ptr-e2o38d3vamjsb1ezw1f.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:04] <moonstroller25> friendofafriend << this is solution for other people.... not me.
[1:04] <moonstroller25> I don't have access to their network.
[1:04] <moonstroller25> I can email a script.
[1:05] <friendofafriend> moonstroller25: So, let's back up a little.
[1:05] <moonstroller25> If I had one :)
[1:05] <friendofafriend> moonstroller25: You have a Raspberry Pi someplace else, is that right?
[1:06] <moonstroller25> Until I know how the APIPA is generated I'm paused.
[1:07] <friendofafriend> moonstroller25: So, to unpause, you can check out RFC3927.
[1:07] <friendofafriend> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3927
[1:07] <mawk> I just told you moonstroller25 ...
[1:07] <moonstroller25> Okay.... two pi's connected by a cable.... the power goes down and the pi's boot up. On the master pi (located in the house where it is warm) I can ifconfig (sorry Lartaz) and get the master ip address. Outside I no longer know their address.
[1:07] <mawk> you're just adding difficulties for nothing
[1:07] <mawk> configure a static ip
[1:08] <mawk> so you don't have to litterally guess
[1:08] <moonstroller25> I can get lucky and the address is not changed.
[1:08] <mawk> ...
[1:08] <mawk> yeah you can try every 4 billion addresses and get the right one
[1:08] <mawk> I said that addresses are *random*
[1:08] <moonstroller25> No. I can use tcpdump and follow the link up in the file but I have to unplug cable first to generate the action.
[1:08] <mawk> you get a new one each boot
[1:08] <synack> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3927#section-2.1
[1:09] <mawk> the cleanest way would be to use the .local stuff as you found out
[1:09] <friendofafriend> synack: Yep, by PRNG.
[1:09] <moonstroller25> I'm looking for a simpler way so I can write a script which can send an email or a cell phone or someone can call....
[1:09] <moonstroller25> mawk... not always.
[1:09] <mawk> moonstroller25: getent ahostsv4 vidcam.local
[1:10] <moonstroller25> I have the same address each time so far but I'm not betting on that.
[1:10] <mawk> if the hostname is vidcam.local and avahi something is running
[1:10] <mawk> implementation details
[1:10] <mawk> you can't bet on that no
[1:10] <moonstroller25> right no can bet.
[1:10] <mawk> getent ahostsv4 vidcam.local
[1:11] <mawk> try that
[1:11] <moonstroller25> with nmap I can do a long lengthy search.... last option. :)
[1:11] <moonstroller25> Or a binary search with nmap. :)
[1:11] <mawk> I already gave you the mDNS solution three times, what are you waiting for to try it
[1:11] <mawk> getent ahostsv4 vidcam.local
[1:11] <synack> I'm beginning to think he's trolling
[1:12] <friendofafriend> If all you want is that, try a "ping -b" and then check your ARP cache.
[1:12] <moonstroller25> getent ahostsv4 VidCam.local
[1:12] <moonstroller25> STREAM VidCam.local
[1:12] <moonstroller25> DGRAM
[1:12] <moonstroller25> RAW
[1:12] <mawk> so here's your address
[1:12] <moonstroller25> :)
[1:12] <moonstroller25> Thanks from the troll.....
[1:13] <moonstroller25> :)
[1:13] <moonstroller25> When your old you miss things in a multiperson conversation. :) Sorry.
[1:13] <friendofafriend> If you really would just like to use the APIPA, you can do it.
[1:13] <friendofafriend> You ping the broadcast, and that should make all devices on your link respond.
[1:13] <friendofafriend> When they respond, they'll appear in your arp cache.
[1:14] <moonstroller25> mawk gave the a good solution. I can write a script to this.
[1:14] <friendofafriend> And because you know the MAC address of the machine you'd like to find the IP of, you can grep for that and get the IP.
[1:14] * thiras (~thiras@unaffiliated/thiras) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:14] <synack> here's the code doing the random address selection, fyi https://github.com/mirror/busybox/blob/master/networking/zcip.c
[1:15] <moonstroller25> I'm going to plug in a pi without a host name and see if it still works.
[1:16] <mawk> you need to know the target hostname to get the address
[1:16] <mawk> also you need to be sure the ipv4 LL address generation isn't disabled on the target
[1:16] <mawk> you have many parameters to take into account
[1:17] * \\Mr_C\\ (mrc@cpe-75-187-160-45.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: (Read error: Connection reset by beer))
[1:17] <friendofafriend> echo "The IP address is `ping -b -c 3 ; arp -na | grep -i "aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff" | cut -d' ' -f2`"
[1:19] <friendofafriend> Where aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff would be replaced with the MAC address of the Pi you'd like to find the IP address for.
[1:19] <moonstroller25> Doesn't work.
[1:20] <moonstroller25> How do you check the ARP cache?
[1:20] <friendofafriend> With "arp -na"
[1:21] <moonstroller25> echo "The IP address is `ping -b -c 3 ; arp -na | grep -i "aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff" | cut -d' ' -f2`".
[1:21] <moonstroller25> WARNING: pinging broadcast address
[1:21] <moonstroller25> The IP address is PING ( 56(84) bytes of data.
[1:21] <moonstroller25> --- ping statistics ---
[1:21] <moonstroller25> 3 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 2099ms.
[1:22] <moonstroller25> Enough of my problems you guys take care of other people. Thanks for the ideas.
[1:23] <moonstroller25> BRB.
[1:26] <friendofafriend> Yeah, "aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff" is a placeholder for the MAC address of the system you're interested in.
[1:27] <mawk> that /dev/gpiochip0 looks nice
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[1:27] <immibis> you would expect to see some ping replies though wouldn't you
[1:30] <synack> mawk: ya, I really like the new gpio stuff... it makes a lot of sense, especially when you start messing with the dtbs
[1:30] * VarunAgw (~VarunAgw@unaffiliated/varunagw) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[1:30] <mawk> I'm using /dev/spidevX.Y to talk to some chip, but now I need to read its interrupts
[1:31] <mawk> so I'm gonna use the /dev/gpiochip0 with it
[1:31] <synack> sounds like a reasonable thing to do
[1:31] <synack> alternatively, you could write a kernel module
[1:31] <mawk> I'm doing a POC on linux but ultimately this will be on a RTOS
[1:31] <mawk> so a plain C app is what I need
[1:31] <synack> fair enough
[1:32] * skinny852 (skinny852@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/skinny852) Quit (Quit: skinny852)
[1:33] <friendofafriend> immibis: Probably have to echo 0 into /proc/sys/net/ipv4/icmp_echo_ignore_broadcasts.
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[1:38] <hodapp> hmm... am I reading this right, that raspistill has options for sending camera data directly to an OpenGL texture?
[1:39] <hodapp> and thus might be a better example than some of the older things like cameragl & picamgpu_minimal
[1:41] * moonstroller25 (~moonstrol@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[2:02] <laphlaw> I've googled and googled, but I can't seem to connect my Pi to a bluetooth speaker. I'm seeing the following error: bluetoothd[456]: a2dp-sink profile connect failed for FC:58:FA:39:10:25: Protocol not available
[2:02] <laphlaw> I've tried all the top google search suggestions, but still have the same issue
[2:02] * ghostboarder (~ghostboar@S0106305a3aa44a48.va.shawcable.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[2:04] <friendofafriend> laphlaw: What sound system are you using, pulse?
[2:04] * clemens3 (~clemens@mx.eniso-partners.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[2:06] <laphlaw> I believe so.. how do I know?
[2:07] * kenlee (~kenlee@174-29-144-169.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:07] <friendofafriend> You'll see it from a "ps xau | grep pulseaudio".
[2:08] <friendofafriend> And it's probably what you're running.
[2:08] <laphlaw> well, the process isn't running
[2:08] <laphlaw> but I have it installed
[2:08] * BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@2a00:23c5:6e55:2b00:39ad:42b2:122b:9319) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:09] <friendofafriend> Yeah, pulse is probably the way to go for setting up your Bluetooth speaker.
[2:10] <laphlaw> ok.. what do you suggest?
[2:10] * ghostboarder (~ghostboar@S010600012e58788e.va.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:11] <laphlaw> I can't even connect to the bluetooth device yet so im not sure if pulse is even coming into the picture yet
[2:11] <friendofafriend> Eventually you'll need a way to play audio from the speaker.
[2:11] <friendofafriend> But if you're having troubles with Bluetooth, are you using bluetoothctl?
[2:12] * BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a00:23c5:6e55:2b00:28bd:f118:f12d:5e5) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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[2:20] <laphlaw> yeah I'm using bluetoothctl
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[2:29] <friendofafriend> That error suggests you're doing everything correctly.
[2:29] <moonstroller25> I have it working so far.
[2:29] <moonstroller25> using the getent cmd
[2:30] <friendofafriend> laphlaw: You would have to have pulseaudio-module-bluetooth, for starters.
[2:30] <friendofafriend> laphlaw: Like, "sudo apt-get install pulseaudio-module-bluetooth"
[2:33] <laphlaw> its already installed
[2:35] <friendofafriend> Cool, you should be able to kick off pulse with a "sudo service pulseaudio start"
[2:36] * MrCrackPotBuilde (~MrCrackPo@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:37] <friendofafriend> You may have to re-pair with the speaker to get it picked up by pulseaudio.
[2:37] * snowgoggles (~snowgoggl@dhcp-c-b6-d2-83-34-5a.cpe.i-zoom.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:38] * BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a00:23c5:6e55:2b00:39ad:42b2:122b:9319) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:38] <friendofafriend> And it's probably easiest to manage the bluetooth speaker once it's paired with pavucontrol.
[2:38] <laphlaw> ok looks like it connected
[2:38] <laphlaw> not sure exactly what did it
[2:38] <laphlaw> now trying to figure out how to get it to play sound :)
[2:38] <friendofafriend> Try pavucontrol to set the speaker as default.
[2:47] * vaft (~vaft@cpe-24-211-192-145.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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[3:02] <laphlaw> friendofafriend how do I set it using pavucontrol
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[3:04] <laphlaw> I've got the speaker connected, I opened an mp3 in vlc, but I hear no audio
[3:04] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[3:05] <friendofafriend> Cool! You're most of the way there.
[3:05] <friendofafriend> If you open pavucontrol and go to the Output devices tab, you'll see the Bluetooth speaker there.
[3:05] <friendofafriend> If you put a checkmark in the box next to the lock icon, it will make the speaker default.
[3:06] <friendofafriend> And then you can visit the Playback tab, find your VLC session, and set the output to the Bluetooth speaker also.
[3:06] <friendofafriend> And then, turn it up loud enough to make the neighbors complain.
[3:07] * finalbeta (~finalbeta@ptr-e2o38d3vamjsb1ezw1f.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
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[3:11] <laphlaw> got I!
[3:12] <laphlaw> it!
[3:12] <laphlaw> except the audio sounds terrible haha. next challenge.. :)
[3:15] <egc> I've built a Raspbian kernel with kgdb/kdb support, and I'm trying to get the boot process to pause by specifying "kgdboc=ttyAMA0,115200 kgdbwait" in the kernel cmdline. I've got serial configured and have a console cable hooked up to another host. However, I can't get the boot to pause at the kdb prompt. If anybody has experience with doing this and would like to discuss, that would be great.
[3:17] <friendofafriend> Hooray, laphlaw! I'm really happy for you!
[3:18] <dirtyroshi> I have a rpi 3b setup how I like. Can I just transfer the micro SD card to a rpi 3 b+ and everything will boot up fine?
[3:20] <Khaytsus> dirtyroshi: I'd duplicate it if you have a second one just to make sure
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[4:23] <mawk> how am I supposed to use /dev/gpiochip ? I don't find much in the kernel docs
[4:23] <synack> libgpiod is the official ABI for it
[4:25] <synack> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/libs/libgpiod/libgpiod.git/tree/include/gpiod.h
[4:25] <synack> there's also this https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/gpio/consumer.txt
[4:26] <synack> that's mostly geared toward kmod developers though
[4:26] * ghostboarder (~ghostboar@S010600012e58788e.va.shawcable.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[4:27] * toastintheshell (~toast@pool-108-7-186-189.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:28] <toastintheshell> what's the easiest way to share my wifi connection from the raspi to another machine?
[4:30] <synack> toastintheshell: eh, there isn't exactly an easy way... likely the most straightforward is to setup a bridge to the wired interface
[4:31] <synack> this is probably a good starting point https://wiki.debian.org/BridgeNetworkConnections
[4:32] * ircuser-1 (~Johnny@158.183-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:32] * p71 (~chatzilla@68-187-65-81.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[4:37] <toastintheshell> that's what I figured
[4:38] <toastintheshell> I'm really hoping to figure out how to just plug in a raspi with USB and use it just like a dongle
[4:39] <synack> only the rpi zero supports usb otg
[4:39] <toastintheshell> but a smart little wifi dongle I can ssh into and configure and automate stuff etc.
[4:39] <toastintheshell> oh the zeroW can do that out of the box?
[4:39] <synack> yeah, although I think you need to add some config to setup usb ethernet
[4:40] <toastintheshell> I actually have accumulated at least 5 raspis over the years I haven't started messing with until yesterday
[4:40] <toastintheshell> been setting up all sorts of fun stuff, that's one of my projects now, wifi dongle pi
[4:40] <synack> certainly a useful thing to have in your bag of tricks
[4:41] <toastintheshell> I'm pretty annoyed about the xbmc distros I've tried, no netflix or amazon support still?
[4:41] <toastintheshell> seems ridiculous they don't even make it easy to install a browser and watch it over the web!
[4:41] <synack> netflix/amazon do all sorts of DRM stuff and actively shutdown projects that try to circumvent it... I wouldn't get your hopes up
[4:41] <friendofafriend> That's the best part!
[4:42] * finalbeta (~finalbeta@ptr-e2o38d3vamjsb1ezw1f.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[4:42] <toastintheshell> I'm already paying for their services, what more do they want?
[4:42] * finalbeta (~finalbeta@ptr-e2o38d3vamjsb1ezw1f.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:42] <synack> toastintheshell: this looks a little dated (2015) but should get you going on the right track https://gist.github.com/gbaman/50b6cca61dd1c3f88f41
[4:43] <mawk> someone used the gpiochip raw API ?
[4:43] <mawk> ah I already asked the question
[4:43] <mawk> I'm tired
[4:43] <toastintheshell> synack: oh yeah that looks promising, I don't think I've seen that one yet
[4:44] <toastintheshell> has anyone tried to get virtualbox working on a raspi?
[4:44] <mawk> yeah I heard about gpiod but I'd like to use fewer libs possible to be able to smoothly port that code
[4:45] <mawk> I found this https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/new_gpio_interface_for_linux/attachments/slides/2094/export/events/attachments/new_gpio_interface_for_linux/slides/2094/FOSDEM_18_New_GPIO_interface_for_linux.
[4:45] <mawk> there are code example
[4:45] <mawk> pretty much what I thought when reading <linux/gpio.h>
[4:45] <synack> yeah, you definitely can do that, but that ABI isn't guaranteed to be stable from one release to the next
[4:45] <synack> so a kernel upgrade might break your code
[4:46] <synack> if you statically link libgpiod and link with -flto, the overhead should be pretty minimal
[4:47] <mawk> I mean I'll port this to something not linux
[4:47] <mawk> but I guess I can use libgpiod
[4:47] <synack> you could build an abstraction layer
[4:47] <mawk> because even with the raw ioctl interface I'll have to use poll(), which is far from what's really happening under the hood with the IRQs
[4:48] <synack> dream up your ideal spi.h, then implement it for every platform you plan to run on
[4:48] <mawk> anyway I just need one GPIO interrupt, it's not a big part of the program, the rest is spi
[4:48] <mawk> the platform I'm targeting has /dev/spidev
[4:48] <mawk> so I can use the one from linux and use the code untouched, so that's nice
[4:48] <mawk> but gpiochip is too new to be on that platform
[4:48] <synack> ah, yeah... if you can get the same interface on both platforms, just do that... less code to maintain
[4:49] <mawk> and /dev/spidev is pretty nice anyway
[4:49] <mawk> you give it a list of actions to do, and it does them serially
[4:49] <mawk> could be half duplex, full duplex, you can change word size midair, etc
[4:49] <mawk> that way you don't have to hack around with using a GPIO for chip select and keeping it low manually
[4:49] <synack> any spi interface not doing 8-bit words is evil by definition
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[5:03] <immibis> evil (a): [of an SPI interface] not using 8-bit words
[5:05] <synack> yep, right there in websters
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[6:49] <mawk> what's GPIOHANDLE_REQUEST_ACTIVE_LOW ?
[6:50] <mawk> eg what does it mean for a gpio to be "active low" ?
[6:50] <mawk> it's related to interrupts right ?
[6:50] <mawk> or events as they call them
[6:51] <synack> active low is inverted logic... so 0 volts (ground) is logic 1 and 3.3 or 5 or whatever is 0
[6:52] <mawk> yeah I need that
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[6:52] <mawk> thanks
[6:53] <mawk> the /dev/gpiochip interface is pretty nice after all
[6:53] <synack> it follows good unix principles... everything should be a file
[6:53] <mawk> you can pack up any number (up to 64) of gpio lines inside a single gpio chip, and you can read or write them all at once
[6:53] <mawk> yeah
[6:53] <synack> yeah, it gets awkward when you have more than 64 lines on the same SoC
[6:54] <synack> more on the kernel side though
[6:54] <mawk> I'm not doing this on the rpi but on the bbb
[6:54] <mawk> and it has like 500 I/O lines
[6:54] <synack> smart
[6:54] <synack> yeah
[6:54] <mawk> that you select through a multiplexer
[6:54] <mawk> that complicated a bit the device tree overlay I had to write
[6:54] <mawk> on rpi the device tree overlay was like 5 lines
[6:55] <synack> nothing will ever be as complicated as the pinmux on SiLabs EFM8 chips
[6:55] <synack> it's a fully connected crossbar switch
[6:55] <mawk> I see
[6:55] <mawk> sounds like the chips from nordic
[6:55] <synack> nordic's chips make me sad too
[6:55] <mawk> I forgot how they call this but you can connect any I/O to any I/O too
[6:55] <mawk> and make a lot of stuff without the CPU involved
[6:55] <synack> yeah
[6:55] <mawk> it's a cool concept
[6:56] <mawk> I've got two soldered on my desk, but didn't try them out yet
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[6:56] <mawk> I soldered them for the same thing I'm doing atm, I tried different chips and platforms
[6:56] <synack> I've been playing with ATSAMD21 lately... it has this whole events system for that that I haven't done anything with yet
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[6:57] <mawk> it's ready for usb and touch screen, with only 32KiB of ram
[6:57] <mawk> you have to code smart to make that fit
[6:57] <synack> 32k is plenty
[6:58] <synack> I've gotten lazy though
[6:59] <synack> nuttx is chewing up 64k on this chip just to give me a shell on usb serial
[6:59] <synack> like, yeah, I could do better, but it's only like $0.10 more for the extra flash
[7:00] <synack> oh, ram
[7:00] <synack> yeah, still using 16k on this chip... it's sad
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[7:02] <synack> beaglebone is good though... my project for tomorrow is to wire up one of these cheap LoRa modules to one of those
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[7:04] <mawk> I did sigfox at school
[7:04] <mawk> because patriotism and stuff
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[7:05] <synack> there's some talk about adding sigfox to the linux kernel along with lora because a couple of the chips support both
[7:06] <synack> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/ELCE2018_LoRa_final_Andreas-Farber.pdf
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[7:07] <mawk> /dev/gpiochip works from the first run
[7:07] <mawk> I got my event fd
[7:08] <synack> sweet
[7:08] <mawk> and my little program even shows up in /proc/interrupts
[7:08] <mawk> 119: 0 4804c000.gpio 17 Edge mrf24j40
[7:08] <synack> ooooh, very nice
[7:08] <mawk> you can choose the name
[7:14] <mawk> now I need to know how to do level triggering
[7:14] <mawk> gpiochip doesn't seem to offer it
[7:15] <mawk> maybe it's not implemented yet
[7:15] <synack> that's sorta an unusual thing, I wouldn't expect most chips to have it
[7:17] <mawk> when I was using the kernel module instead of my userland program /proc/interrupts would show level for that gpio interrupt
[7:17] <mawk> but maybe it's just the kernel masquerading this as a level interrupt
[7:17] <mawk> eg fire continuously while there is no opposite edge
[7:17] <mawk> and when I set up the irq line as edge the kernel module would complain
[7:18] <synack> hm
[7:18] <synack> lemme grep for a few minutes
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[7:22] <mawk> I've got to go, sorry
[7:22] <mawk> but I'll read tomorrow what you said
[7:22] <mawk> good night !
[7:24] <synack> it's just the gpio-davinci driver doesn't support IRQ_TYPE_LEVEL_HIGH and IRQ_TYPE_LEVEL_LOW... lots of other gpio drivers appear to
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[7:24] <synack> er wait, is the beaglebone gpio-davinci or gpio-omap
[7:27] <synack> but you are correct, the gpiolib interface does not expose level triggers... to do that, you'd need to build a kernel module
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[7:33] <synack> you can set those flags in the pinmux definition in the dtb
[7:36] <synack> there also might be something under /sys/class/gpio/<gpionum>/edge, but obviously that's not using the gpiochip interface
[7:37] <synack> er, level, not edge there, you get the idea
[7:38] <synack> I'd probably configure the pins in a dtb overlay, as you're likely doing that already
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[8:22] <shiftplusone> Encrypt: am now
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[9:22] <Encrypt> Hello shiftplusone :)
[9:23] <shiftplusone> Hey, how's it going? Still at plymouth?
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[9:24] <Encrypt> Nope, I've been back in France for quite a while now :P
[9:24] <shiftplusone> oh, how come?
[9:25] <Encrypt> I recently bought a new Raspberry Pi to make it a media center
[9:25] <Encrypt> One of the goals is to record shows that finish late
[9:25] <Encrypt> I was wondering if you knew what was the "official" MCX to IEC connector that is shipped with the TV Hat
[9:26] <shiftplusone> Sorry, no idea.
[9:26] <Encrypt> I bought one on Kubii.fr and the connector was not in the box
[9:26] * uriah (~uriahheep@unaffiliated/uriahheep) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[9:26] <Encrypt> Alright, thanks anyway :)
[9:26] <shiftplusone> have you asked them why not?
[9:26] <Encrypt> Yes
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[9:27] <Encrypt> They have asked me to return the product to them and told me they would ship a new one
[9:28] <Encrypt> But if I have to pay to send it back to them, it would be cheaper to order the connector on Amazon...
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[9:29] <Encrypt> Regarding Plymouth, I studied a year there, from September 2015 to August 2016 :P
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[9:30] <Encrypt> Time flies... :S
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[9:39] <shiftplusone> They shouldn't make you pay, that would be silly
[9:39] <shiftplusone> ah, I thought you were doing a full ~4 year course.
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[9:40] <shiftplusone> but shouldn't pretty much any adapter work well?
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[9:44] <High_Priest> guys, what are some good alternatives to raspberry that will play 4k and can run linux?
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[9:59] <Tykling> High_Priest: I switched to an odroid c2 and am very happy with it
[9:59] <Tykling> plays 4k same size as rpi and runs kodi like a champ
[10:00] <Encrypt> <shiftplusone> ah, I thought you were doing a full ~4 year course. // Nope :)
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[10:01] <Encrypt> <shiftplusone> They shouldn't make you pay, that would be silly // Yeah, the problem is on their side, not mine
[10:02] <Encrypt> <shiftplusone> but shouldn't pretty much any adapter work well? // Yes, any MCX - IEC adapter should be fine
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[10:07] <High_Priest> Tykling, I was also thinking about odroid c2
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[10:08] <fling> Hello.
[10:08] <High_Priest> Tykling, do you have an sdcard or emmc ?
[10:09] <fling> I'm about to power raspberrypi with batteries. What circuit do I need to be able to charge batteries connected to raspberrypi without shutting it down?
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[10:11] <shbrngdo> fling - that generally requires two things: a) a battery charge monitor, and b) a boost/buck converter, along with some kind of switching circuit to power the boost/buck with the charger power when applied. Don't just wire it off the battery, it'll mess up the charge curve...
[10:11] <shbrngdo> there are a lot of available circuits (LTC is one manufacturer) for both the boost/buck and the battery charge monitor
[10:11] <shbrngdo> I don't recommend using LiPo batteries without a charge controller
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[10:12] <shbrngdo> or maybe you can just buy breakout boards that will do this from Sparkfun or Adafruit
[10:12] <fling> shbrngdo: do you have a link? I'm about to 3d print the case for this project.
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[10:13] <fling> shbrngdo: I've not decided what battery to use yet. Does it require 5V? Then I could go with four 1.2V AA R6 batteries
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[10:13] <shbrngdo> well the RPi needs 5V input. I wouldn't deviate from that. A boost/buck regulator will make sure that happens.
[10:14] <shbrngdo> in short, there are several existing "USB power" battery packs you can purchase for somewhat cheap. Charge options are varied. But that might do ya, off the shelf stuff
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[10:17] <shbrngdo> maybe this: https://www.adafruit.com/product/2465
[10:17] <shbrngdo> or one like it
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[10:29] <fling> shbrngdo: I'm reading this https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-powerboost-1000-basic/pinouts
[10:29] <fling> shbrngdo: what battery to use?
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[10:35] <gordonDrogon> fling, look at the Adafruit 1000c battery charge/boost unit. It will output 5.2v from a 3.7v liPo cell and charge it too. I've used a few on Pi's - mostly zeros, but it will power a 3b+ too.
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[13:44] <larsks> I've been working with a Powerboost 1000c recently. It will *barely* power a pi 3b+...even idle, the log will be filled with undervoltage warnings. It seems to work fine with a 2b.
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[14:08] <gordonDrogon> I only tested it once on a 3b to be fair, but am using a couple of them right now on zeros. They're supposed to be able to supply 2 amps though. that ought to be enough to boot a 3b+ and get it going without issues, but ...
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[20:35] <Ellipse0934_> Hey Everyone! I have worked on a software package called PiCraft.jl which is a Julia(a new high level and performance language) package for the Minecraft: Pi. Link: github.com/JuliaBerry/PiCraft.jl
[20:36] <Ellipse0934_> I would love to hear any comments on this.
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[20:44] <H__> Ellipse0934_: hey that sounds like a cool project. congrats on the effort
[20:46] <Ellipse0934_> Thank you! My main motivation was to eliminate my own frustrations with minecraft. i.e. Big projects have a lot of repetitive tasks which can be easily automated by using code. In the docs there is an example where instructions are given to build a skyscraper with an arbitrary number of floors using a couple of `for` loops.
[20:46] * McDonaldsWiFi (~McDonalds@unaffiliated/mcdonaldswifi) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:46] <Ellipse0934_> What would take hours manually can be done within 10 minutes.
[20:48] <H__> I think the MagPi magazine https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/ would be interested in a story about what you made. Did you contact them ?
[20:49] <Ellipse0934_> I want to do that unfortunately I have been unable to find a contact. I actually came here to ask for help.
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[20:50] <Ellipse0934_> I have emailed info@raspberrypi.org but have not received any reply.
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[20:57] <Khaytsus> Automating minecraft has been done for years
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[20:59] <waveform> Ellipse0934_, nice project - and interesting language choice - always nice to see some variety like julia!
[21:02] <Ellipse0934_> @Khaytsus It has but I personally never liked the way WorldEdit and MCedit handle things, I just felt like using SketchUp at that point. I like the Minecraft: pi API way which is my opinion of course.
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[21:04] <waveform> Ellipse0934_, try poking @martinohanlon on twitter about this. He's one of the authors of the "Adventures in Minecraft" book and he's now working at the Pi foundation, so I'm sure he'd know who to poke at the magpi (and would be interested in it!)
[21:07] <Ellipse0934_> Thank You! And the name `waveform` seemed kinda familiar, just realised why. :)
[21:08] <waveform> heh - well, it's great to see another picraft - julia's a language I ought to have a play with when I get a spare second!
[21:09] <waveform> oh, and it's a got a turtle implementation too - took me ages to realize that'd be a good addition to picraft :)
[21:10] <Ellipse0934_> I actually copied that from the author of the RaspberryJamMod's instructables post.
[21:10] <Ellipse0934_> Here: https://www.instructables.com/id/Python-coding-for-Minecraft/
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[21:15] <waveform> huh - it's been too long since I've played with this stuff; wasn't aware of RaspberryJamMod at all. I should probably see if I can get that working with my picraft and add some instructions for it
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[21:18] <Ellipse0934_> RaspberryJamMod and RaspberryJuice are saviours, I doubt any kid can play on the actual Minecraft: Pi for more than an hour or two. Graphics and demands have increased a lot and the MCPi has been abandoned.
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[21:28] <Sbaitso> Hello
[21:29] <lopta> Hello Sbaitso!
[21:30] <Sbaitso> I was hoping someone was sitting around hoping to help a clueness new user get their piface control and display 2 up and running :)
[21:33] <friendofafriend> Read docs, ask questions, lots of people can help you.
[21:34] * lopta (~ball@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[21:34] <Sbaitso> I've got a 3 B+ and have read the docs on the page and done some searching, but I'm getting the "board not detected" error
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[21:35] <Sbaitso> the docs on the PiFace page appear to be somewhat dated
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[21:35] <friendofafriend> You might check this out. https://github.com/piface/pifacecommon/issues/24
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[21:37] <Sbaitso> friendofafriend: ah, haven't found this page yet, giving it a look
[21:37] <Sbaitso> thanks!
[21:37] <friendofafriend> Always welcome, Sbaitso.
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[21:42] <Sbaitso> friendofafriend: tried this already and it gives me a syntax error. I made sure there were no typos in it
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[21:42] <Sbaitso> I've got the control and display 2 if that helps any. I just installed Raspbian and it updated, no errors, etc.
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[21:44] <friendofafriend> And this is the documentation you're following? http://piface.github.io/pifacecad/installation.html
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[21:44] <Sbaitso> yes it is
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[21:45] <Sbaitso> this line python3 /usr/share/doc/python3-pifacecad/examples/sysinfo.py is where I get the not detected error
[21:46] <Sbaitso> my goal is to get the internet radio working
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[21:47] <friendofafriend> Are you running that command as root?
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[21:48] <Sbaitso> I'm embarassed to say, I don't know. I copied and pasted it into the terminal.
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[21:49] <friendofafriend> That's OK. You'll want to try that command with "sudo" at the beginning, so "sudo python3 /usr/share/doc/python3-pifacecad/examples/sysinfo.py".
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[21:50] <Sbaitso> No PiFace Control and Display board detected (hardware_addr=0, bus=0, chip_select=1).
[21:54] * jerryq (~jerryq@ Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[21:55] <friendofafriend> Sbaitso: So, you'll first want to make sure that SPI is enabled. What result do you get when you "cat /boot/config.txt | grep -i 'spi=on'"?
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[21:56] <Sbaitso> dtparam=spi=on
[21:57] <friendofafriend> Cool, so that means you have SPI on. That's great.
[21:57] <friendofafriend> It looks like the issue you're having is related to this bug report. https://github.com/piface/pifacecad/issues/24
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[22:03] <Sbaitso> friendofafriend: since the issue is closed does that mean a fix will be coming out?
[22:04] * Keanu73 (~Keanu73@2ProIntl/User/Geek/Keanu73) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[22:04] <Sbaitso> I tried adding the line they mention, but i get a syntax error
[22:05] <friendofafriend> So, you're the hero you're waiting for, here. You could simply edit this file.
[22:05] <friendofafriend> It's not enough to add the line, but to add it in the right place.
[22:05] * BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@2a00:23c5:6e55:2b00:f480:5f9b:75c1:1beb) has joined #raspberrypi
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[22:07] <friendofafriend> So, it appears as though the plan is to change the documentation and recommend installing pifacecommon from pip instead. https://github.com/piface/pifacecommon/issues/27
[22:09] <Sbaitso> I believe I added it in the right place, but may not have
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[22:10] <Sbaitso> ok, gotta figure out how to use pip
[22:10] * wonderer (~quakeroat@unaffiliated/wonderer) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:10] <friendofafriend> Sbaitso: So, you'll want to remove those packages that you installed like this: sudo apt-get -y remove python{,3}-pifacecad
[22:10] <Habbie> Sbaitso, whatever you do, don't sudo pip
[22:10] <wonderer> any one care to comment on https://www.brexitforums.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=63
[22:10] <friendofafriend> And then you'll want to check this github repo. https://github.com/piface/pifacecad
[22:11] <Sbaitso> friendofafriend: ok, packages removed
[22:11] <friendofafriend> If you scroll down the page, you'll see a heading entitled "Install on Raspbian Strech and RaspberryPi 3".
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[22:12] <Sbaitso> friendofafriend: ok, found the heading, trying it now
[22:12] <friendofafriend> Great, sounds like you're on your way.
[22:16] <Sbaitso> friendofafriend: got python on , moving on to the next one. Before I keep going I want to thank you very much for taking the time to help me.
[22:16] <Sbaitso> I greatly appreciate it
[22:16] <friendofafriend> Hey, no problems. You're very welcome.
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[22:20] <Sbaitso> friendofafriend: do I need the run the command under cleanup as well?
[22:20] <friendofafriend> You can test before you do.
[22:20] <Habbie> those instructions are terrible
[22:21] <Sbaitso> friendofafriend: so try python3 /usr/share/doc/python3-pifacecad/examples/sysinfo.py again?
[22:21] <friendofafriend> Habbie: Why?
[22:21] <Habbie> 'sudo python3 setup.py install'
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[22:21] <friendofafriend> I would try: sudo python3 /usr/share/doc/python3-pifacecad/examples/sysinfo.py
[22:21] <Habbie> you just lost all control over the software installed on your system
[22:21] <friendofafriend> Habbie: Oh noes.
[22:22] <Sbaitso> python3: can't open file '/usr/share/doc/python3-pifacecad/examples/sysinfo.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory
[22:22] <friendofafriend> OK, so there's a copy of that program in a directory you just pulled from git.
[22:22] <Lartza> Didn't you just remove it with apt?
[22:23] <friendofafriend> In the pifacecad directory, you'll find an examples directoyr.
[22:23] <friendofafriend> directory.**
[22:23] <friendofafriend> And there you'll find "sysinfo.py".
[22:24] <Sbaitso> it worked!!!
[22:24] <Sbaitso> I found the directory! :)
[22:24] <friendofafriend> Hey, that's great news, Sbaitso.
[22:24] <Sbaitso> I also realize I've been looking at it upside down :)
[22:25] <Sbaitso> *facepalm*
[22:25] <friendofafriend> Well neat-o. Sounds like things are working just great.
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[22:26] * mrAZ (~studio@ip-94-112-182-12.net.upcbroadband.cz) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:26] <Sbaitso> is the cleanup command necessary?
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[22:27] <Lartza> Did you sudo setup.py?
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[22:27] <Lartza> I think you want to actually keep the dirs
[22:27] <Lartza> The installation guide assumes you follow the bad instructions it has
[22:27] <Sbaitso> ok
[22:28] <friendofafriend> Oh, those bad instructions. By the people in charge of the repo.
[22:28] <Lartza> Yes, those bad instructions
[22:28] <Lartza> You see them too? They should instead use a venv or user install
[22:28] <friendofafriend> Golly gosh, you should contact them.
[22:28] <Lartza> Sure, I will
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[22:29] <Sbaitso> To me they were great, they worked. :)
[22:29] <friendofafriend> Hey, right on Sbaitso!
[22:29] <Lartza> Sbaitso, NEVER run pip or setup.y as sudo
[22:29] <Lartza> *setup.py
[22:29] <friendofafriend> Sounds like you're going to have lots of fun with your new project.
[22:30] <Lartza> Sbaitso, https://pages.charlesreid1.com/dont-sudo-pip/
[22:30] <Sbaitso> Lartza: will do
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[22:30] <Lartza> Sbaitso, If you want to install something you should either pip --user install it or create a virtual environment to install things into
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[22:31] <friendofafriend> Oh man, that site is a hoot.
[22:31] * genr8_ (~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:31] <friendofafriend> "Don't be a sheep. Trust no one." And a Fedcon logo.
[22:31] <Lartza> It was the first one that kind of explained the issue, although it was written fairly badly overall
[22:31] <Lartza> Heh, didn't notice that
[22:32] <friendofafriend> It's the right repo. You can go look in setup.py and see what it's doing.
[22:32] <friendofafriend> You could say the same thing about any script, there's nothing unique to python about not running as root.
[22:33] <Lartza> Indeed
[22:33] <Lartza> You also shouldn't run npm as root
[22:33] * RebelCoderRU (~RebelCode@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:33] <Lartza> And you should read all scripts you run, especially as root
[22:33] <Lartza> There is one additional aspect with sudoing code package managers though where they mess up with your package manager
[22:35] <friendofafriend> It's not like the script is obfuscated. You can go check it out.
[22:35] <Lartza> friendofafriend, Submitted a bugreport, hopefully the documentation can be improved
[22:35] <Lartza> I might be able to do it in a few days
[22:36] <friendofafriend> Oh, that'll be a hoot. Maybe they'll add a "Trust No One" step for you.
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[22:39] <Sbaitso> do I have to manually stop sysinfo before running another example or should running another example just start the new one?
[22:39] <hodapp> not all package managers can execute arbitrary code in the normal course of running.
[22:40] <Lartza> Bad ones do though! :)
[22:40] <friendofafriend> Sbaitso: You should be able to just run another example.
[22:41] <friendofafriend> Are you saying the sysinfo is still actually running?
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[22:41] <friendofafriend> Or that you see the last displayed screen on your LCD?
[22:41] <Sbaitso> yep, Thonny opened behind the irc window, didn't realize I had to start the new one there
[22:41] <Sbaitso> last displayed screen was still on
[22:41] <Sbaitso> got radio.py running now
[22:42] <friendofafriend> Right, that's pretty normal. After the sysinfo script is no longer running, the next example you try should replace what's on the LCD.
[22:44] <Sbaitso> I took a look at the script and should be able to do that without an issue, if I can bug you for one more piece of help. How do I go about starting the program automatically when I turn on the pi so i can disconnect it from the montior?
[22:45] <Lartza> You can create a systemd unit
[22:46] <friendofafriend> Or you can use a simpler init like daemontools or runit.
[22:47] <Habbie> yes
[22:47] <Habbie> but you should create a systemd unit
[22:47] <Lartza> Something like https://gist.github.com/Lartza/ca3656d2dbdbe648f834d1ea779c08ea should work
[22:47] <friendofafriend> That daemontools is pretty slick. Sure is easy.
[22:47] <friendofafriend> Not many moving parts, small enough to drown in the sink.
[22:47] <Lartza> Replace my user with your local user of course, or remove the user lines if you absolutely need to use root
[22:47] <Lartza> *user and group
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[22:51] <Sbaitso> thanks Lartza
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[22:51] <pi0> is it possible to ssh over usb on pi2?
[22:51] <Habbie> yes
[22:51] <Habbie> but
[22:51] <pi0> nice
[22:51] <pi0> oh no :/
[22:51] <Habbie> not in the direction you can do it with a pi0
[22:51] <Habbie> sorry
[22:52] <pi0> oh
[22:52] <pi0> likehow
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[22:53] <Lartza> Sbaitso, Put that in /etc/systemd/system/<servicename>.service, then run systemctl daemon-reload and you can test it with start/stop that it works before you enable it for the future boots :)
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[22:54] <friendofafriend> Lartza: Two lines with daemontools, might look into it sometime.
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[22:55] <Lartza> friendofafriend, All my systems have systemd
[22:55] <Lartza> But sounds nice, I never bothered to learn initscripts for obvious reasons
[22:55] <friendofafriend> OK, that makes way more sense.
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[23:02] <swift110> hey all
[23:03] <norwood67> hi
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[23:05] <pi0> friendofafriend: hey
[23:07] <pi0> its been a while!
[23:07] <pi0> Habbie: how is this ssh over usb possible on pi2
[23:07] <pi0> serial2usb you mean
[23:09] <Habbie> i don't mean serial2usb
[23:09] <friendofafriend> What's up, pi0?
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[23:12] <Sbaitso> thanks again for the help, take care
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[23:14] <norwood67> Habbie: do you mean a USB/ethernet device
[23:14] <Habbie> norwood67, yes
[23:14] <Habbie> norwood67, either real or fake, like a pi0 in gadget mode
[23:14] <norwood67> they work
[23:14] <Habbie> yes
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[23:35] <veegee> Hey all, what does bcm2835_delay actually do?
[23:35] <veegee> Is there an advantage of using that instead of POSIX usleep() ?
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[23:40] <fling> Does it have a fine rtc clock?
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