#raspberrypi IRC Log


IRC Log for 2019-02-20

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[1:03] * toastintheshell (~pi@pool-108-7-186-189.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:04] * Spr1ng (~Spr1ng@unaffiliated/spr1ng) Quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
[1:05] * amigojapan (Elite19001@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-rmavslublmfcrfur) has joined #raspberrypi
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[1:07] * BrianG61UK_ is now known as BrianG61UK
[1:07] <amigojapan> I guess somebody already must have thought about this, but I think the next generation RPI should be more like a smartphone. I mean almost all the elements are there already with the official display and case. we just need a SIM card and an official battery pack
[1:08] <DanielTheFox> but... we already have smartphones
[1:08] * DanielTheFox points to a miniaturized laptop
[1:08] <amigojapan> Dan-Bennett: but not open source
[1:09] <amigojapan> DanielTheFox: ^
[1:09] <DanielTheFox> and who is preventing cellphones from being open source?
[1:10] <DanielTheFox> google only follows what the customers want (if the customers want to suicide, google will just follow them, at the end, only caring for the moneyz)
[1:10] <amigojapan> well, the software is not really there for them
[1:10] * smultron (~smultron@mirbsd/staff/smultron) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:11] <amigojapan> is it easier to build GNU for a smartphone, or build a smartphone that is GNU?
[1:11] <DanielTheFox> but I'm not the right person to talk about this in an impartial way
[1:11] <DanielTheFox> among other things, I don't like cellphones anymore, generally-speaking
[1:11] <amigojapan> I am talking more about a PDA than a cellphone
[1:12] <DanielTheFox> ok, that's more fair
[1:13] <DanielTheFox> I like the Pi how it is, as a personal computer
[1:13] <DanielTheFox> or a server
[1:13] * smultron (~smultron@mirbsd/staff/smultron) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:13] <DanielTheFox> or whatever, it is so nice as it is right now
[1:13] <amigojapan> that would not go away
[1:13] <shauno> I'd be happy if they had the power management of a modern hardware, not necessarily the cellular component itself
[1:13] <korryd> can't you add a cellular hat?
[1:13] <shauno> er, of a modern cellphone, rather
[1:14] <DanielTheFox> better power management
[1:14] <DanielTheFox> finally, something I happen to agree with you
[1:14] <amigojapan> korryd: the sim card should be part of the hardware I think, in a next generation RPI
[1:15] <DanielTheFox> at the end, everybody has ideas about how the next one should be
[1:15] <shauno> including the cellular hardware just means more closed binary blobs, since the IP for them is all tied up in qualcomm & intel
[1:15] <shauno> (it also means numbers on the bottom-line cost for everyone, whether they need it ornot)
[1:15] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:15] <DanielTheFox> to be honest, I don't like how telephony works, generally-speaking
[1:16] <Habbie> amigojapan, the sim card or the sim slot?
[1:16] <DanielTheFox> everything is closed, hidden, crafted in a way it should be all charges for the customer
[1:16] <amigojapan> Habbie: the sim slot
[1:16] <DanielTheFox> (and I'm not really happy when it comes to spending money)
[1:17] <amigojapan> Habbie: and also a new case and a battery pack
[1:17] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:17] <DanielTheFox> the case, well, is supposed to be provided by the owner
[1:17] <amigojapan> DanielTheFox: there is an official case
[1:17] <DanielTheFox> I guess, the base idea of the Pi is "there you go, things you definitely need, if you want more, add it yourself"
[1:18] <DanielTheFox> I followed that idea and I'm happy
[1:19] <shauno> the pi is very pricepoint-driven. the design decisions seem to be entirely driven by "give X pricepoint, what will most people get the most use out of"
[1:19] <DanielTheFox> the only extra thing I have is a LCD that is driven by SPI
[1:19] <shauno> so if adding a cellular modem that 2% of owners are going to use, means they no longer hit $35 .. it's not going in
[1:19] <shauno> (and 2% is probably highly optimistic, imho)
[1:19] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-5d6adf-190.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:20] <amigojapan> DanielTheFox: I am talking about this case https://i.imgur.com/i0Q8Pz3.jpg
[1:20] * smultron (~smultron@mirbsd/staff/smultron) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:22] <amigojapan> the new case should be designed to hold a battery pack
[1:22] * korryd (~korryd@va-76-4-65-131.sta.embarqhsd.net) Quit ()
[1:23] * Ceber (~cerberus@dslb-002-202-158-049.002.202.pools.vodafone-ip.de) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[1:25] <amigojapan> or maybe this can all be circumvented by designing a case which can hold a USB cellular modem, and battery pack
[1:25] <amigojapan> and use an existing RPI
[1:26] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-5d6adf-190.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[1:27] * smultron (~smultron@mirbsd/staff/smultron) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:30] <toastintheshell> amigojapan: have you looked at the Purism or Planet Gemini?
[1:30] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-5d6adf-190.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:30] <amigojapan> nope, I will look it up toastintheshell
[1:31] * Ceber (~cerberus@dslb-002-202-158-049.002.202.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:31] * Oy3Br0d3 (~textual@cpe-24-167-130-227.triad.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[1:32] <DanielTheFox> I should get another SD card
[1:32] <DanielTheFox> buy one of those USB game controllers
[1:32] <DanielTheFox> and install RetroPie
[1:33] <toastintheshell> https://store.planetcom.co.uk/products/gemini-pda-1
[1:34] * _unreal_ (~berin@99-60-100-45.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:35] <toastintheshell> https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
[1:35] <toastintheshell> DanielTheFox: it's kind of annoying how difficult it is to play games without a real controller
[1:36] <NeoThermic> does anyone know places to buy cases, etc for the rpi2 (the one with the yellow composite connector)
[1:36] * puff (~user@c-24-131-208-153.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:36] * Voob_Sant (~Big_Leagu@ool-182c955c.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:36] <NeoThermic> (or pi 1 model B rev 1.2?)
[1:36] <DanielTheFox> indeed, games aren't games without a controller that can be used with both hands and moved around as your will demands
[1:36] <toastintheshell> afaik only the 1 had the composite rca plug
[1:36] <amigojapan> toastintheshell: yeah, those look pretty good
[1:37] <DanielTheFox> (keyboards aren't as handy)
[1:37] <toastintheshell> purism is legit stallmanesque libre as far down to the metal as they could reasonably get
[1:37] <NeoThermic> toastintheshell, yeah, and my issue in tracking down stuff for that pi is that most places sell only 3-compatible stuff
[1:37] <_unreal_> any one know if there is a rep-rap channel?
[1:38] * VarunAgw_ (~VarunAgw@unaffiliated/varunagw) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[1:38] <_unreal_> trying to find someone who has delt with RPI and ramps drivers?
[1:38] <toastintheshell> some binary blobs in some of the hardware, but they tried their best, plus they're all about privacy and real hardware cutoff switches for mic/camera/antenna
[1:39] * wildlander (~wildlande@unaffiliated/wildlander) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[1:39] <toastintheshell> #reprap seems to have a lot of people
[1:41] <toastintheshell> NeoThermic: I'd like to find a good pi1B case too, I just love having that little composite output, although my original pi exploded the other day when I plugged it in :O
[1:41] * DanielTheFox hands toastintheshell a scone
[1:41] <toastintheshell> lol
[1:42] <DanielTheFox> scones will cover any bad feeling you have
[1:42] <toastintheshell> I think it was something to do with plugging in the composite output to an old sketchy monitor
[1:42] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) Quit (Quit: YuGiOhJCJ)
[1:43] <amigojapan> toastintheshell: I guess besides the high price, those look like good solutions
[1:43] <toastintheshell> yeah well hopefully they'll drop in price, people have made pi phones though
[1:44] * DanielTheFox eats another scone, covering his current upset feeling
[1:45] * BitEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:45] * SpeedEvil is now known as Guest97356
[1:45] <amigojapan> why are you upset DanielTheFox ?
[1:45] <toastintheshell> https://learn.adafruit.com/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-cellphone/overview
[1:45] <DanielTheFox> horrible internet
[1:45] <DanielTheFox> I wouldn't mind slow internet
[1:45] <toastintheshell> all you need is enough for irc man
[1:45] <DanielTheFox> I just want it not disconnecting and returning sick TCP packets
[1:46] <toastintheshell> give the packets scones
[1:46] <DanielTheFox> no, sickness needs tea
[1:46] * Guest97356 (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[1:47] <DanielTheFox> annoyed people need bread (scones and other non-sweet breads, recommended)
[1:49] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:49] * [Butch] (~butch@ Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[1:49] <DanielTheFox> just like the world wants a Raspberry Pi, everybody should have bread at home
[1:49] <DanielTheFox> soft like a kitty (but you wouldn't eat a kitty)
[1:50] <toastintheshell> apt-get install tea
[1:50] <DanielTheFox> they smell like *smfffft* ahhhh, refined mid-quality wheat powder
[1:50] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[1:51] <amigojapan> toastintheshell: I guess such an idea can be worked on….
[1:51] <DanielTheFox> it's not as amazing smell as a working CRT or warm soldering rosin, but it's a nice smell nevertheless
[1:51] <toastintheshell> amigojapan: well it's working now, but doesn't look all that full featured
[1:52] <toastintheshell> however it doesn't seem like it'd be all that hard to script some stuff together once it's all up and running
[1:52] <amigojapan> toastintheshell: well, it seems to me that is aimimg too much to be a “phone”,
[1:52] <toastintheshell> only issue is formfactor, pizero is probably too low-powered for anything supercool
[1:52] * Voob_Sant (~Big_Leagu@ool-182c955c.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[1:52] * DanielTheFox wants a Pi Zero, but too inflated here
[1:53] <amigojapan> toastintheshell: I would rather use the official RPI screen too
[1:53] * DanielTheFox namely wants the Zero WH
[1:53] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, no F'ING wonder I kept doing a channel list and searching for rep-rap
[1:53] <toastintheshell> amigojapan: what do you mean by that? are you just looking for a 3/4g/lte connection on a pi? that's even easier from what I understand
[1:53] <_unreal_> came up with nothing
[1:53] <_unreal_> lol
[1:54] <amigojapan> toastintheshell: yeah, all I want is for it to work like a good PDA
[1:54] <amigojapan> toastintheshell: to have internet on the go
[1:54] <DanielTheFox> 1 GHz is fast
[1:54] <DanielTheFox> you should know what has been done with an 80486
[1:54] <toastintheshell> _unreal_: lol, yeah it's always something like that, I'd lose my head if I didn't have a second opinion reminding me not to
[1:55] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, you'd love the project I'm working on im sure
[1:55] <toastintheshell> I'd totally rock a cli only smartphone
[1:55] <DanielTheFox> but where's the kbd?
[1:55] <_unreal_> I dont have a pi I have an ASUS tinker board.... but same thing
[1:55] <toastintheshell> I might set that up when I get the gemini or the newer version who's name escapes me
[1:56] <_unreal_> I just finished the major production of my fiberglass shell for my RPI lcd/sbc
[1:56] <toastintheshell> _unreal_: what do you think of that tinkerboard? I heard you can't install anything but debian or something?
[1:56] <_unreal_> bs
[1:56] <toastintheshell> or a couple other official android and WinIOT OSs
[1:57] <toastintheshell> that's what some dude told me somewhere, I wasn't sure what to make of it\
[1:57] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, first off the current android build that I at least know of is a JOKE.....
[1:57] <Phin2> is there a good tutorial how I get the Pi to use the SD as a read-only bootdevice and put everything else in a RAM-drive?
[1:57] <_unreal_> second of all PSU wise, you need to power the board via the GPIO and run the voltage at 5.3v
[1:57] <amigojapan> toastintheshell: the android phone i use now costs only 70 USD new, maybe it would be a good idea to build a GNU/LInux for it
[1:58] * crimastergogo (~crimaster@ has joined #raspberrypi
[1:58] <toastintheshell> can't you just mount it as ro in the kernel options somewhere?
[1:58] * DanielTheFox doesn't have a smartphone like everyone does
[1:58] <toastintheshell> amigojapan: I would probably start with trying to see if it's supported by ubuntu touch or something like that
[1:58] <_unreal_> USB spec MAX is 5.6v I use a castle BEC power supply which you can program the voltage... once you do that the tinker board is ROCK solid...
[1:59] <amigojapan> toastintheshell: ununtu touch has been discontinued
[1:59] <_unreal_> tinker is about 2x the PI when it comes to preformance but it has some stupid STUPID ASS hickups
[1:59] <toastintheshell> _unreal_: if I can just run debian I'll be happy
[1:59] <_unreal_> A: being the power problem
[2:00] <_unreal_> you can run the shit out of debian on a tinker
[2:00] <toastintheshell> nice, and it has usb3 right?
[2:00] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-5d6adf-190.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[2:00] <toastintheshell> I've been hearing no pi4 in 2019 :(
[2:00] <_unreal_> no :(
[2:00] <_unreal_> I dont think so only 2
[2:00] <toastintheshell> which means no usb3 until probably usb4 is out lol
[2:01] <toastintheshell> hm, the rockpi and odroids have usb3 though
[2:01] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, there are 2 version of the tinker.... 1 and 2 2 has a 16gb or something like that EMMC. the non emmc one is like $40
[2:01] <toastintheshell> is the asus arm or x86?
[2:01] <_unreal_> arm
[2:01] * teepee_ (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:01] <_unreal_> ar quad 2ghz
[2:01] <_unreal_> 2gb ram
[2:02] <_unreal_> more GPIO feactures newer gpu
[2:02] <_unreal_> features
[2:02] <_unreal_> etc...
[2:02] <toastintheshell> 2ghz is pretty nice compared to 700mhz
[2:02] <_unreal_> and quad core
[2:02] <DanielTheFox> most phones I've seen out there are 1.4 or below, 4-core or 8-core sometimes
[2:02] <amigojapan> toastintheshell: seems the UBports comunity is continuing development of ubuntu touch
[2:02] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kPtps_VMSsQqWfIx5baqdu2rawGrnZwf
[2:03] <_unreal_> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XnvldxoBHzGtbCADU_fiTk-stAP-PmEM
[2:03] <_unreal_> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Rd4__AhurmXlam7M9dkPl3FW6Fd86syu
[2:03] <_unreal_> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QkWgHpnCRs6qtWHWWXF8qHhw2aM0cW4l
[2:03] <toastintheshell> so you could likely get ubuntu touch working on most phones if you're real handy with driver stuff
[2:03] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[2:03] * teepee_ is now known as teepee
[2:03] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, ..... and?
[2:04] * _unreal_ re-fills his rum/coke
[2:04] <_unreal_> amazingly I have not gotten the DAD I dont get it cry from my daughter and her homework
[2:05] <_unreal_> what chall think of my images?
[2:06] * akk (~akk@ Quit (Quit: +++)
[2:06] <_unreal_> ?
[2:06] <_unreal_> did I loose connection? hello?
[2:07] <Phin2> isn't that better placed in #android? :P
[2:07] <_unreal_> huh?
[2:07] <_unreal_> is what?
[2:09] <_unreal_> if your talking to me I'm not sure I understand what it is you mean?
[2:11] <Phin2> nah, the phonetalk :P
[2:11] <_unreal_> hum
[2:12] <_unreal_> speaking of android. I just relised I'm running windows no linux
[2:12] <_unreal_> arg...
[2:12] <_unreal_> I only run for CAD
[2:14] * untermensch (~untermens@c-73-25-253-51.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:14] <Phin2> btw: is there a good tutorial how I get the Pi to use the SD as a read-only bootdevice and put everything else in a RAM-drive?
[2:16] * toastintheshell hasn't set up a clipboard on this machine yet, so manually typing links
[2:19] * ivanskie (~ivanskie@ Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[2:23] <toastintheshell> aright now I see it lol
[2:23] <toastintheshell> _unreal_: that's pretty sweet, which OS is that?
[2:24] * basteh (~basteh@unaffiliated/basteh) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[2:24] <toastintheshell> looks a little like the old CRT iMacs but cool cause it's diy
[2:26] * dalmata (~dalmata@unaffiliated/dalmathg) Quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.9.3 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
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[2:27] * Leonarbro (~Leonarbro@S01067824af93741c.cg.shawcable.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:28] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-5d6adf-190.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:32] <toastintheshell> I'm also wondering how compatible the tinkerboard is with the pi ecosystem
[2:33] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:34] * shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:35] <toastintheshell> Phin2: https://wwww.raspberrypi.org/blog/adafruits-read-only/
[2:35] <toastintheshell> is that kind of what you're looking for?
[2:36] <Phin2> wrong domain? Or down?
[2:37] <Phin2> oh wait
[2:37] <Phin2> wwww :P
[2:37] <toastintheshell> sorry, no clipboard
[2:37] <toastintheshell> lol
[2:37] <toastintheshell> did I mistype?
[2:38] * untermensch (~untermens@c-73-25-253-51.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[2:38] * Leonarbro (~Leonarbro@S01067824af93741c.cg.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:39] <Phin2> yeah, wwww. :)
[2:40] <toastintheshell> oh lol, myb
[2:40] <toastintheshell> this keyboard is weird
[2:43] * smultron (~smultron@mirbsd/staff/smultron) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:44] <Phin2> toastintheshell: no prob. The "irreversible" sounds odd though. Odd that you can't just mount it rw again....
[2:44] <Phin2> I think I gonna check the forums for the scripts mentioned in the comments.
[2:45] <Phin2> Especially if I need to add content to the Pi this is necessary... right now I use a local Screenly installation on it. Need to check if I can put it's content on a USB-stick.
[2:48] * xerox123 (xerox123@unaffiliated/xerox123) Quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
[2:48] * xerox123_ (xerox123@unaffiliated/xerox123) Quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
[2:48] * xerox123 (xerox123@unaffiliated/xerox123) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:49] <toastintheshell> that is weird... I wonder if you can still mount it rw as a secondary drive from a different OS
[2:49] * sublevel (~sublevel@gateway/tor-sasl/sublevel) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[2:50] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, sorry was away, thats running tinker os which is debian straight up
[2:50] * indomitable (~indomitab@unaffiliated/indomitable) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[2:52] <Phin2> toastintheshell: yeah.... not sure what the adafruitscript does...
[2:52] * indomitable (~indomitab@unaffiliated/indomitable) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:54] * sublevel (~sublevel@gateway/tor-sasl/sublevel) has joined #raspberrypi
[2:55] * xerox123 (xerox123@unaffiliated/xerox123) Quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
[2:55] * xerox123_ (xerox123@unaffiliated/xerox123) Quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)
[2:56] <toastintheshell> Phin2: yeah I mean why wouldn't you be able to just mount -o remount,rw
[2:56] * xerox123 (xerox123@unaffiliated/xerox123) has joined #raspberrypi
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[2:57] <Phin2> "The script makes the Pi save temporary files to the RAM instead of the SD card. Of course, this means that no files or new software can be written to the card. " <--- in the forums you find scripts that periodically write the stuff back to the card, but more like on a hourly or daily base instead of every second....
[2:58] * synack (~synack@pdpc/supporter/active/synack) has left #raspberrypi
[2:58] <toastintheshell> oh that sounds good
[2:58] <toastintheshell> I guess X writes too often to be running, do you need X?
[2:59] * BCMM (~BCMM@unaffiliated/bcmm) Quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
[3:00] <friendofafriend> Toast an SD card pretty quick, that way. :(
[3:00] <toastintheshell> _unreal_: what's the purpose of that little mod you got going there? just a general purpose machine?
[3:02] * davr0s (~textual@host109-155-66-106.range109-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[3:03] <Phin2> toastintheshell: depends.... if everything is in RAM.... see another reason why more RAM is everytime better :)
[3:03] <toastintheshell> I've been looking at the rockPro for that reason
[3:04] * vstehle (~vstehle@rqp06-1-88-178-86-202.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[3:10] * nine_9 (c94c1a81@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[3:10] <Phin2> toastintheshell: is it properly supported driver/linuxwise?
[3:11] <friendofafriend> Those RockPro boards are certainly neat, great to have a PCIe slot.
[3:11] * mike_t (~mike_t@pluto.dd.vaz.ru) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:11] <Phin2> friendofafriend: do they have proper Gigabitethernet?
[3:11] <toastintheshell> Phin2: that seems to be the main question about the rock boards
[3:11] <toastintheshell> they do
[3:11] <toastintheshell> and usb3
[3:12] <Phin2> toastintheshell: that's the prob with those Wannabe-Pi derivates.... mostly they use chips which are cheap but come with a bunch of softwareblobs
[3:12] <friendofafriend> RTL8211.
[3:13] <Phin2> toastintheshell: cool. I got a TapeLibrary but found out the LAN-port is only for the webinterface :P
[3:13] <toastintheshell> hexacore processor, usb3, gbit eth, emmc, bunch of great features, but driver support is definitely an issue
[3:13] <Phin2> mh.... is there a major distro that "works"?
[3:15] <Phin2> hm, and pricey though.
[3:15] <friendofafriend> The RockPro? You get a lot for the bucks, might check out the RockPi for a lower price point.
[3:16] * mowcat (~mowcat@cpc105070-sgyl40-2-0-cust220.18-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[3:16] * mowcat (~mowcat@cpc105070-sgyl40-2-0-cust220.18-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:18] <Phin2> friendofafriend: yeah, for like 140€ I get some mobile i5 or i7 notebook....
[3:18] <Phin2> which then again has proper* driversupport :)
[3:19] * yohnnyjoe (~yohnnyjoe@c-73-129-2-10.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[3:23] <friendofafriend> If you're looking for bang-for-your-buck, the RK3288 is pretty attractive. On a Rock64, one can get four cores and a gig of RAM for $30, not to mention gigabit, USB3, and some onboard flash.
[3:24] <friendofafriend> It's really apples to oranges. Laptops are great, but you're not getting the expansion of an SBC.
[3:25] <friendofafriend> Not that I'd recommend a RockChip board to anyone as their first (or even second) SBC. But, if you're looking for a very low per-core cost, it's a screaming deal.
[3:25] * ghostboarder (ghostboard@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/ghostboarder) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:28] <Phin2> if the GigabitLAN and USB3 works usable (as in difference to the Pi....) :)
[3:28] <Phin2> oh wait
[3:29] <friendofafriend> Right, Pi3B+ is still USB2, and these are boards that actually get pretty close to gigabit speeds.
[3:29] <friendofafriend> I was using an ODROID-C1 for wireless access points because of that.
[3:29] <Phin2> only have Pi3's here.... ~250Mbit
[3:29] * indomitable (~indomitab@unaffiliated/indomitable) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[3:29] <Phin2> but wait, the Rock64 you're talking has no PCIe, right?
[3:30] <friendofafriend> Right, the Rock64 has no PCIe or a way to break it out. The RockPi has an M.2 that you can break out into PCIe. The RockPro64 has an actual slot.
[3:30] <toastintheshell> rockpro64 with 8gb is 80$
[3:30] <toastintheshell> *4gb
[3:31] <toastintheshell> ubuntu looks pretty solid on there, definitely tempting
[3:31] <friendofafriend> Yep, and you're getting DDR4 as well. Raspi is still using DDR2.
[3:31] <toastintheshell> yeah
[3:32] <toastintheshell> wonder if I could jam that in this pitop chassis
[3:32] <Phin2> :)
[3:32] <friendofafriend> Hard to say. The RockPi4 is the same form factor as the Raspi, so cases should mostly work.
[3:32] * indomitable (~indomitab@unaffiliated/indomitable) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:33] <Phin2> reminds me I still need to build a Wifi-proberequest-sniffer out of that PiZeroWH here
[3:33] <friendofafriend> There is a metal chassis to turn the RockPro64 into a NAS. Accomodates a SATA expansion board and drives.
[3:33] <Phin2> btw. any solution to accelerate Tensorflow-stuff?
[3:34] <Phin2> or is that a job for Nvidia-boards?
[3:34] <friendofafriend> On the Pi? vc4cl I guess. A Tegra board would be much better.
[3:35] <friendofafriend> Maybe a Shield settop box, or a Nintendo Switch.
[3:35] <toastintheshell> i'd like the rockpro in there, probably should fit if I really want, but not in the nice way the rockpi would
[3:35] <friendofafriend> RockPro is pretty big, about twice the size of a PiB.
[3:36] * pixel_yo (~pixel_yo@unaffiliated/pixel-yo/x-3847297) Quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.github.io)
[3:37] <Phin2> friendofafriend: oh, didn't knew that one, nice!
[3:37] <toastintheshell> well the piB fits the long way in here, so as long as it fits the wide way...
[3:38] <Phin2> friendofafriend: that would be cool if the GPU could run the code instead of the CPU
[3:38] * pixel_yo (~pixel_yo@unaffiliated/pixel-yo/x-3847297) has joined #raspberrypi
[3:38] <friendofafriend> The gripe with the RockPi4 is that the M.2 storage goes over the processor, so if you want a heatsink you'll have to rerun some wires.
[3:39] <Phin2> the stuff I done so far only used the CPU, enough, but not very performing in the high end
[3:39] <friendofafriend> Phin2: If it's a workload you can split over multiple SBCs, and the form-factor doesn't matter, you might be able to get by with a small cluster.
[3:39] <friendofafriend> You could make a pretty big cluster of SBCs for the price of one Tegra devkit. They're really pricey.
[3:40] <Phin2> it's something that must run on the formfactor of a Pi or max. a NUC board :p
[3:42] <Phin2> it has to fit behind a 50" LCD-TV with barely enough space for the Pi and cables :P
[3:44] <toastintheshell> what I'd love is to get more clusterable apps working
[3:46] <toastintheshell> like... the whole OS on a cluster ideally
[3:46] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-5d6adf-190.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[3:49] <Phin2> the idea is cool, though I don't know if there is a reason for.... the GTX970 here should do far better than a few dozen Pis?
[3:54] * ghostboarder (ghostboard@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/ghostboarder) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[3:54] <toastintheshell> if one of 24 rpis shits the bed, the cluster goes on, and replacing it is 35$
[3:54] * toastintheshell near, far, wherever you are...
[3:55] * Leonarbro (~Leonarbro@S01067824af93741c.cg.shawcable.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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[4:01] <Phin2> hm https://www.techrepublic.com/article/raspberry-pi-gets-supercharged-for-ai-by-googles-edge-tpu-accelerator/
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[4:19] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, mod? you mean the shell?
[4:22] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, the shell is an industrial ish shell if you will. its designed to house upto an 8" LCD raspberyPI lcd or any really..... and the computer SBC.. and be moddable in anyway needed
[4:22] <_unreal_> I'm building it to be a cnc machine controller
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[4:23] <Jonno_FTW> I want 4g internet access to a rpi3, should I get a dongle or a HAT?
[4:26] * ivanskie (~ivanskie@d75-157-172-91.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:26] <_unreal_> Jonno_FTW, I'm going to assume mos 4g internet access points are going to be WIFI based
[4:26] <_unreal_> mos=most
[4:26] <Khaytsus> I think he means cellular directly, not using a celluar hotspot.......
[4:27] * kamdard (~kamdard@2605:6000:1526:4ca5:679a:5f1e:aa08:d3d2) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[4:29] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[4:32] <Jonno_FTW> ^
[4:32] <Jonno_FTW> I don't want to have to install a modem
[4:33] <Khaytsus> A hat would be more compact.. vs the dongle hanging off. Either way you probably want some kind of antenna. A dongle is more reusable later for a laptop or such.
[4:34] <Jonno_FTW> this is going to a permanent installation
[4:34] <toastintheshell> _unreal_: that's really cool man
[4:34] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-5d6adf-190.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:35] <Jonno_FTW> eh I'll probably just go with a dongle
[4:35] * RaalFy (~RaalFy@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[4:35] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, its running debian
[4:36] <_unreal_> I can make more of those shells easy I have the mold
[4:36] <toastintheshell> will the hat get better speed than the usb port?
[4:36] * alazare6- (~alazare61@unaffiliated/alazare619) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:36] <toastintheshell> _unreal_: what is that injection molded?
[4:37] <_unreal_> no just fiberglass layup
[4:37] <_unreal_> I can do vacuum bagging though
[4:37] <toastintheshell> I wouldn't mind making a mold for a beefier pitop that can fit more junk in it
[4:38] <_unreal_> like my design? or more like a laptop?
[4:38] * tdy (~tdy@unaffiliated/tdy) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:38] <toastintheshell> like a 17" screen sized laptop, was thinking of modding an old laptop case, but if I could make it exactly to spec that'd be sweet
[4:38] <_unreal_> well fiberglass is not quick and easy
[4:39] <_unreal_> you would be better off 3D printing if you want to do something like that
[4:39] <_unreal_> though your results may varry and I assure you its not going to be half as hardy as an FRP build
[4:39] <toastintheshell> well I want something robust and durable more than quick and easy
[4:39] <_unreal_> then again a 3d printed part with a layer veil matt and epoxy would be ideal.
[4:39] <toastintheshell> that's a cool mold though, you could probably sell it if you can make more
[4:40] <toastintheshell> hm, that's a good idea
[4:41] <_unreal_> veil matt is paper thin, and an epoxy that will bond with the type of plastic that is 3d printed and you have a rather robust build
[4:41] <_unreal_> heavy but robust
[4:41] <_unreal_> Though if you where going to do something like that I would suggest using a higher end board over a PI....
[4:42] <toastintheshell> yeah that's why I'm looking into stuff like the rockpro
[4:42] * Leonarbro (~Leonarbro@S01067824af93741c.cg.shawcable.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:42] <_unreal_> if you know any one that may be interested in an RPI shell that is totally customizable let me know....
[4:42] <toastintheshell> but what I'm messing with now is various cluster options
[4:42] * purpleunicorn (~purpleuni@unaffiliated/purpleunicorn) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:43] <toastintheshell> see I love the idea of having a ton of little interchangeable cheap computers that each do one thing and do it well (like the unix philosophy)
[4:43] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-5d6adf-190.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[4:44] <_unreal_> ya
[4:44] <toastintheshell> right now I have a main controller machine running i3wm and various terminal applications, then for chromium I have a window open with vnc serving chromium from another pi, and that's all it does
[4:44] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, something I could use a hand with. NOT this second but building twards is getting the linux software side setup for this tinkerboard
[4:45] <_unreal_> I need to use the GPIO's configured to I can use linuxcnc
[4:45] <_unreal_> and direct control of a stepper machine.
[4:45] <toastintheshell> this thing's a little slow running x and chromium, but one on each device isn't bad
[4:45] <toastintheshell> then if I have other specialized applications I use another raspi
[4:45] <_unreal_> hum
[4:45] <toastintheshell> like netflix on the tv over there
[4:45] <_unreal_> :)
[4:46] <_unreal_> the tinker I have not see much of any slowdown unless it needs to pagefile
[4:46] <toastintheshell> and I have a network controller acting as a router/ssh server for accessing my home network when I'm out
[4:46] <_unreal_> nice
[4:46] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-bceea9-235.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:46] <_unreal_> ya I always wanted to build a custom rom for my NAS but never gotten around to it
[4:47] <_unreal_> I have a dlink DSM-G600
[4:47] <toastintheshell> I have a lot of other ideas, but that's sort of what I think of the unix-philosophy individual-application computers side of things, but then for beefier things I'd really like to get more traditional cluster applications working
[4:47] * redstarcomrade (~quassel@cpe-104-175-255-182.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:47] <_unreal_> its processor is about equal to your average router. but has the hardware for being a NAS
[4:48] <toastintheshell> I'm using ipfire for the router, I like it so far
[4:48] <toastintheshell> yeah a nas is definitely going to be on my shortlist of additional projects for the cluster
[4:49] <_unreal_> toastintheshell, I could see a setup like my box being used with a bank of RPI nano's
[4:49] <_unreal_> more then enough space
[4:49] * password4 (~password@unaffiliated/password2) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:50] <toastintheshell> I'm still not sure the space of 4 pizeros is better used than 1 pi3b
[4:51] <_unreal_> I could likely stack 10 rpi3 in my shell
[4:51] <_unreal_> on there side
[4:51] <toastintheshell> might be a better option
[4:51] * password8 (~password@unaffiliated/password2) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:51] <toastintheshell> the overhead of all the networking is just so much
[4:52] <_unreal_> my setup with the tinkerboard mounted to the RPI touch screen it stands all of 3/4" tall
[4:52] * password2 (~password@unaffiliated/password2) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[4:52] <_unreal_> then my shell its self is 7" deep at the base nad 12" wide
[4:52] <toastintheshell> but 10 3bs would be great
[4:53] <toastintheshell> what's that screen 10"?
[4:53] * Snircle (~textual@ip174-68-86-201.sd.sd.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[4:53] <_unreal_> Or something like that. i would have to find a ruler to be sure
[4:53] <_unreal_> the display is a 7"
[4:53] <_unreal_> it would support upto an 8" easy maybe a 10"??
[4:54] * password4 (~password@unaffiliated/password2) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[4:55] <toastintheshell> that's pretty sweet
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[4:59] * magic_ninja (~sparie1@unaffiliated/magic-ninja/x-4708782) Quit (Read error: No route to host)
[4:59] <_unreal_> if you look at the image that was before I did any of the cutting.... you can see that its just a shape shell... That can be formed in to any needed design
[5:00] <_unreal_> customized to one's desires
[5:01] * magic_ninja (~sparie1@unaffiliated/magic-ninja/x-4708782) has joined #raspberrypi
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[5:09] * godane (~guest@ Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[5:10] * crimastergogo (~crimaster@ Quit (Quit: crimastergogo)
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[5:26] * mark4 (~mark4@ has joined #raspberrypi
[5:26] <mark4> /paste.pound-python.org/show/4tdC9Dkt8oRn601eBdLH/
[5:26] <mark4> something wrong with the raspberry pi kernel git repo
[5:29] <toastintheshell> mark4: could it be a network error?
[5:29] <mark4> possibly
[5:29] <mark4> but i got that error twice at about the same point
[5:29] <mark4> ill try again from work tomorrow, this crappy motel wifi could be at fault
[5:30] <toastintheshell> yeah for sure
[5:30] <mark4> but just in case its not i thought i would shout FIRE!!!!!!!!!!1 lol
[5:31] <mark4> you could try clone it
[5:34] <toastintheshell> yeah hold on
[5:36] <toastintheshell> receiving objects...
[5:37] * untermensch (~untermens@c-73-25-253-51.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[5:38] <_unreal_> not much as fun as chasing @#$%@#$@34 palmetto bugs
[5:40] <mark4> hope your interwebz is faster thaan mine, i go from 0% to 1% in about 5 minutes
[5:41] <toastintheshell> hm, yeah I'll try it on a vm overnight I guess
[5:41] * password8 (~password@unaffiliated/password2) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[5:41] <mark4> yea im going to go zzz while this fails again :) got werk tomorrow
[5:41] <toastintheshell> now vms on a raspi cluster is another thing I'd really like to get working
[5:41] <mark4> im trying to get my pi3 working with gentoo again
[5:42] <mark4> with / on an external ssd
[5:42] <toastintheshell> oh nice, yeah I've been meaning to do that as well, just such a time commitment
[5:42] <mark4> yes. its also a 64 bit build, i want to port my thumb2 forth to aarch64
[5:43] <toastintheshell> mark4: would you put /boot on the ssd as well, or on the sdcard
[5:43] * indomitable (~indomitab@unaffiliated/indomitable) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[5:43] <mark4> the boot is on the sdcard
[5:43] <toastintheshell> seems to be the way to go
[5:43] <mark4> but with gentoo putting / on the sd will destroy the sd in under a week lol
[5:43] <mark4> yup
[5:44] <mark4> kind of want to write my own aarch64 assembler too
[5:44] * indomitable (~indomitab@unaffiliated/indomitable) has joined #raspberrypi
[5:44] <mark4> think that will be easier than a thumb2 assembler
[5:45] <mark4> i still dont know how they can call a cpu wtih 284752845682645 opcodes all with 87465293452348 addressing modes "RISC"
[5:45] <toastintheshell> I was looking into ways to encrypt a raspi install, and one method involves chrooting and all that, the other I've been actively using is through berryboot's built in encryption
[5:45] <mark4> do a google for "gentoo encrypted drive"
[5:45] <mark4> my / partition here on this laptop is encrypted
[5:46] <mark4> anyway time to go zzz
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[5:46] * Leonarbro (~Leonarbro@S01067824af93741c.cg.shawcable.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[5:46] <toastintheshell> have a good night, good luck with gitting that linux
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[6:20] <Phin2> hm, any good USB-sticks for database-use?
[6:20] * null1337 (~WhoAmI@c-73-203-123-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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[6:21] <Phin2> I have no clue if the stick-controllers do wear-leveling on any cheapo Stick?
[6:23] * cryptic (~cryptic@ Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[6:24] * TheFatherMind (~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[6:26] <amigojapan> Phin2 I would hope it is part of the standard. But I am not sure
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[6:31] <Phin2> no idea either.
[6:33] <Phin2> amigojapan: oh btw https://filippobuletto.github.io/home-router-lte/
[6:35] <amigojapan> Phin2 that is the project you will build?
[6:35] * tnewman (~tnewman@2001-b011-20e0-1118-e2d5-5eff-fe0a-07f3.dynamic-ip6.hinet.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[6:36] <Phin2> amigojapan: thought somebody said earlier you asked for 3G stuff :)
[6:36] <Phin2> could be wrong
[6:36] <amigojapan> I did
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[6:38] <amigojapan> Yeah Phin2 I am aware of lte dongles but I would prefer if that was built into the next version of the rpi
[6:39] * MacGeek (~BSD@host183-218-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:39] <Phin2> ah
[6:39] <Phin2> i doubt though
[6:40] <Phin2> modem-baseband would add a bunch of cost
[6:40] <amigojapan> I see
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[6:43] * MacGeek (~BSD@host183-218-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Client Quit)
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[6:50] <amigojapan> Phin2 and to be a good phone people would also want gps and gyro to be honest
[6:50] * uks (~uksio@p200300CB1BDE496BC5B52A6772EB290A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:51] * rpjsf (~bar@104-1-93-74.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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[7:05] <Phin2> hehe
[7:07] * monkian (~pi@adsl-75-62-144-150.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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[9:55] <Croquembouche> hey, just a question - if I've got a text log with a new entry appearing a couple of times per second, will a 2-colour e-ink screen be able to handle it?
[9:57] <friendofafriend> Croquembouche: Probably. Worth it to get a small eink screen and find out.
[9:57] * RebelCoder (~RebelCode@ Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[9:58] <Croquembouche> friendofafriend: sounds good, I'll do that. what's your address so I can sue you if it doesn't work ;P /s
[9:58] <friendofafriend> I've got an e-ink Kindle here, the redraw times are kind of slow when you're clearing the screen too.
[9:58] <Croquembouche> mm, fair. my concern is that if I'm just adding a new entry to the bottom of the screen and pushing everything else up, that's effectively a full wipe
[9:59] <amigojapan> Croquembouche: if you want a good refresh rate, it doess nto sound like eink is the best go to solution
[9:59] <friendofafriend> You'd have to do a full wipe or you'll get artifacts from the last displayed image.
[9:59] <Croquembouche> amigojapan: ah, fair enough in that case, cheers for your wisdom
[9:59] * waveform (~waveform@ Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[10:00] <Croquembouche> completely unrelated, know of any good lcd screens? or would I be better off jumping straight for a normal screen (can't remember the name) - I've only seen lcsd screens that can handle 2 lines
[10:01] <friendofafriend> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-4-inch-LCD-Display-240x320-SPI-TFT-ILI9341-White-LED-for-Arduino-oled-LCD-Serial/32957534033.html
[10:02] <amigojapan> Croquembouche: those are chcaracter displays
[10:03] <amigojapan> Croquembouche: try using the official raspberry py display?
[10:03] <Croquembouche> ah, that's what I meant by lcd screen, my bad
[10:04] <Croquembouche> amigojapan: is there one other than the 7inch touchscreen?
[10:04] <amigojapan> no Croquembouche
[10:04] <amigojapan> Croquembouche: but there are many 3rd party smaller displays
[10:05] <Croquembouche> friendofafriend: cheers for the link
[10:05] <Croquembouche> amigojapan: I'll look into it. cheers for your help
[10:06] <friendofafriend> Always welcome. Cheers.
[10:06] <amigojapan> :)
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[13:40] <pagios> hello, i have a NFS question, i have a server hosting some mp4 files, and a client mounting the directory of the nfs server locally. The users mainly connect to the webserver on the client which is mounting the mp4 directory of the server. My question is, when a user tries to play the mp4 file, he uses the nfs mount on the client, does it mean if i have 100 clients, i create 100 request for nfs between the client and
[13:40] <pagios> server?
[13:40] <pagios> [14:38:24] <pagios> or is it one request for the mp4 that is shred by all the users?
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[13:42] <Khaytsus> pagios: What does this ahve to do with raspberry pi exactly?
[13:43] <pagios> it is running rpi
[13:43] <Khaytsus> So?
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[13:44] <Khaytsus> You're asking an implemntation specific question about the details of how NFS works.
[13:44] <larsks> pagios: I think that generally you are correct: each web client is going to add traffic between the nfs client and the server.
[13:44] * fredp (~fredp@unaffiliated/fredp) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[13:45] <Khaytsus> Of course each client is going to be its own socket.
[13:45] <larsks> There are some options for nfs caching, but I haven't looked at nfs in like a decade.
[13:45] <gordonDrogon> The web server may cache the data though.
[13:45] <gordonDrogon> however if it thinks it's a local file (even though it's nfs mounted) it may not.
[13:45] * Khaytsus grubmles
[13:46] <Khaytsus> pagios: #nfs
[13:46] <larsks> pagios: this is some doc from redhat that talks about configuring caching in nfs: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/6/html/storage_administration_guide/fscachenfs
[13:46] <Khaytsus> Seriously.
[13:46] <Snert> huh. perhaps 100 nfs requests is a big deal.
[13:46] <gordonDrogon> Khaytsus, the Pi is all about learning - and now we have 20 million more Linux users - sure - a linux/unix/nfs channel would be better, but...
[13:47] <Khaytsus> There is a #Nfs specific channel that oculd answer this kind of detailed question.
[13:47] <Khaytsus> He's not asking how to set up nfs on a pi or something
[13:47] <larsks> I don't think it's so busy here that we need to chase people away.
[13:47] <gordonDrogon> the file will certianly be cached on the server - 100 nfs requests to the same file is not a big deal - but it depends on the server. I've built nfs server to have easily copes with much more than that.
[13:47] <Khaytsus> Why offer them poor advice then?
[13:47] <Khaytsus> Rather than tell them where to go for _actual_ info
[13:47] <larsks> You could just...not answer, you know.
[13:48] <larsks> ANyway, I'm here to help :)
[13:48] <Khaytsus> Yep. You're right/
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[13:49] <Cobalt> O_o
[13:56] <pagios> any alternative to NFS?
[13:57] <Habbie> pagios, why not run the webserver instead of the nfs server?
[13:57] <pagios> Habbie, i am running a webserver, which is serving the nfs share on the client
[13:58] <pagios> it goes like nfs server -> nfs client -> webserver -> user
[13:58] <Habbie> i understand that
[13:58] <Habbie> i am proposing you change that
[13:58] <pagios> you mean have the webserver on the client point directly to the webserver on the server
[13:58] <pagios> and isolate the nfs
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[13:59] <Habbie> yes
[13:59] <pagios> that would be a reverse proxy?
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[13:59] <pagios> proxy_pass ?
[14:00] <Habbie> i don't know, you haven't told us enough
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[14:02] <Ranma2264> Hi people, IDK if this is the right place to ask, but here goes: I have 2 PI's one zero and one 3B+... The zero is configured in OTG mode, and I have it connected to the USB on the back of the 3B+ (I need it that way) and I wanna access the pi zero through USB0. The problem I am facing is that I need dhcp but dhcpcd doesnt seem to assign any ip to usb0 either on the PI3B+ or on the zero I have to manually run it everytime for that to happen. I tried
[14:02] <Ranma2264> /etc/network/interfaces with no luck, is there anyone that can point me on the right track?
[14:03] <Ranma2264> Thanks
[14:05] <BurtyB> Ranma2264, do you need to access the Pi Zero from the rest of the network? or just from the Pi3?
[14:06] <Ranma2264> BurtyB: it would be ideal from both
[14:06] <Ranma2264> BurtyB: but the problem is that no matter what the requirement for me is that the pi zero has to be nested to the 3b+
[14:08] <BurtyB> Ranma2264, if you bridge eth0 (pi3) and usb0(pi3) (and disable dhcpcd on those interfaces) the pizero will get an IP from the dhcp server on your local network
[14:10] <Ranma2264> BurtyB: cool, thanks I will try that route
[14:10] <BurtyB> Ranma2264, https://pastebin.com/JEE8TkwL should do it unless I've forgot anything :)
[14:12] <Ranma2264> BurtyB: Thanks!
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[14:58] <TheSilentLink> can you swap an SD card from a 3b to a 3b+ without reflashing and it will work?
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[15:15] <larsks> TheSilentLink: sure, that should work.
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[15:34] <TheSilentLink> thanks are programs compiled for the pi 3 compatible with the pi 3b+ or do they need to be recompiled?
[15:35] <DanielTheFox> probably only some drivers
[15:35] <DanielTheFox> such as the ethernet card and the wireless to support 5 GHz and gigabit
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[15:36] <Habbie> TheSilentLink, if you compile on raspbian and don't set weird flags, your programs will work on every pi
[15:36] <DanielTheFox> use ARMv6, preferably
[15:36] <DanielTheFox> it'll work even on the first Pi
[15:36] * dogbert2 (~Bill@ip98-160-179-12.lv.lv.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[15:37] <DanielTheFox> and, for the sake of gods, try to use as little RAM as possible, especially for stuff that will fork into daemons
[15:39] <Tenkawa> hey Habbie
[15:39] <Habbie> hey Tenkawa :)
[15:39] <Tenkawa> whats new?
[15:39] <Habbie> i'm unreasonably happy with my new trashcan
[15:39] <Habbie> i must be getting old
[15:39] <Tenkawa> I finally got my 64 bit pi up and running
[15:39] * v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:39] <Habbie> ah nice
[15:39] <Habbie> what OS?
[15:39] * DanielTheFox still uses 32-bit Pi
[15:40] <Tenkawa> debian native
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[15:40] <Habbie> Tenkawa, ah
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[15:41] <Tenkawa> I think
[15:41] <Tenkawa> now I'm not sure
[15:41] <Habbie> you are not sure?
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[15:41] <Tenkawa> rofl
[15:41] <Tenkawa> i dont remember if its debian or still raspbian compiled to 64 bit
[15:41] <Tenkawa> let me check
[15:41] <Habbie> i did not know raspbian 64 bit existed
[15:41] <Wafficus> hi there question about the raspberry pi zero, is it possible to run a self hosted cloud music player on it with 2 factor authentication?
[15:41] <Habbie> seems -somewhat- pointless
[15:41] <Habbie> Wafficus, i don't see why not
[15:42] <Tenkawa> no my bad .. just 64 bit kernel 32 bit userland still
[15:43] <Tenkawa> like I said.. my memory is shot
[15:43] <Habbie> ah
[15:47] <TheSilentLink> thanks for helping.
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[15:51] <Tenkawa> Habbie: my next challenge soon is finding a good laptop that balances decent windows/linux/gaming
[15:51] <Tenkawa> I have a fairly good budget
[15:52] * govg (~govg@unaffiliated/govg) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[15:52] <Tenkawa> just been so long since I've bought one for this purpose i've been building more things for single (and sometimes 1.5) purpose
[15:55] <GeekOfflineNL> Tenkawa, overhere in de netherlands i found a buidl-to-spec reseller. I can select any component, and even let them install dual boot linux/W10
[15:56] <GeekOfflineNL> so now i have a 14" laptop with 2 HD's (SSD and a 1T baracuda for data) and even a decent videocard
[15:56] <Tenkawa> we have a few like that here.
[15:56] <GeekOfflineNL> oke, it will set you back around a € 1000
[15:56] <Tenkawa> I'm just so out of date
[15:56] <Habbie> GeekOfflineNL, which reseller?
[15:57] <GeekOfflineNL> Habbie, let me check
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[15:57] <GeekOfflineNL> Habbie, https://laptopzelfsamenstellen.nl/
[15:58] <GeekOfflineNL> i've got the 14" metal one
[16:01] <Tenkawa> Habbie: you used zswap at all?
[16:02] <Habbie> Tenkawa, not that i know of!
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[16:02] <Habbie> Tenkawa, i think i saw it on a system recently, but i never touched it
[16:02] <Tenkawa> I just started using it and really am glad I did
[16:03] <Habbie> why?
[16:03] <Tenkawa> its made a big difference for "my" workload
[16:04] <Tenkawa> my swap partitions are usually highly compressable and very transient
[16:04] <Tenkawa> and all ssd
[16:04] <Tenkawa> or mmc
[16:04] <Tenkawa> I have no platters
[16:04] * DanielTheFox likes platters, lower cost per GB
[16:05] <Habbie> Tenkawa, ah
[16:05] <Tenkawa> DanielTheFox: I dont need the larger capacity
[16:05] * DanielTheFox would otherwise use SSD if he really really needed enhanced performance
[16:05] <Tenkawa> DanielTheFox: I need the speed
[16:05] <Tenkawa> I
[16:05] <DanielTheFox> that's why both exist :)
[16:05] <Tenkawa> er I'd use m.2 if those would come down in price
[16:06] <DanielTheFox> I need more capacity at lower cost, Tenkawa needs increased performance with less storage capacity
[16:06] <Tenkawa> yeah thats what m.2 suppose to be theoretily
[16:06] <Tenkawa> er theoreticly
[16:09] <GeekOfflineNL> euh, "consumer grade" m.2 afre not that much more expansive then regular SSD.
[16:09] <Tenkawa> oh
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[16:09] <Tenkawa> well darn
[16:10] <DanielTheFox> you can easily buy high-capcity SSD
[16:10] <DanielTheFox> "easily"
[16:10] <DanielTheFox> as if getting the money wasn't part of the caveats in between
[16:10] <Tenkawa> right..... but "capacity" isnt my concern
[16:10] <Tenkawa> performance is
[16:11] <Tenkawa> I have plenty of capacity
[16:11] <DanielTheFox> yep
[16:12] <Tenkawa> I still have to figure out the machine I'm going to buy anyway hehheheh
[16:12] <Tenkawa> thats going to be stressfull enough
[16:12] <GeekOfflineNL> m.2 1TB and Sata600 1TB ssd, sata-SSD is 20 euro cheaper.
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[16:13] <Tenkawa> sata 6 is a huge step up from what I'm running now so thats going to be a big improvement
[16:14] <GeekOfflineNL> € 118,00 overhere :-) I think that's cheap
[16:14] <Tenkawa> I think my drive is sata 6 but my controller in this box is only 3 so I'm just going to transfer the drive (its a nice drive I upgraded myself)
[16:14] <Tenkawa> (checking)
[16:15] <DanielTheFox> there are some 2.5" 2 TB HDD at about... ~70 USD here
[16:15] <DanielTheFox> they're laptop-ish, nice for my specific usecase
[16:15] <GeekOfflineNL> DanielTheFox, SSD for that price?
[16:15] <DanielTheFox> below 250 GB
[16:16] <DanielTheFox> it appears that SSD aren't useful here beyond gaming
[16:16] <GeekOfflineNL> nice to upgrade old laptop with HHD to SSD. and get great performance improvement :-)
[16:16] <RoyK> good old HDDs work well
[16:16] <Tenkawa> anyone remember the cli command to check scsi channel speed for a drive channel?
[16:16] <RoyK> for a pi, it's probably good enough with spinning rust
[16:16] <DanielTheFox> and PC gaming itself is expensive, so manufacturers feel free to rise their prices as much as you can
[16:17] <DanielTheFox> RoyK: "spinning rust" aren't floppy disks? :P
[16:17] <GeekOfflineNL> RoyK, laptop HDD and W10 are not a good combination
[16:17] <Habbie> floppy disks are mostly not made of metal
[16:17] <DanielTheFox> they have a layer of magnetic oxid coating
[16:17] <RoyK> GeekOfflineNL: I don't use Windoze
[16:17] <Habbie> that is true
[16:18] <DanielTheFox> if your FDD head is dirty or just in bad mood, it'll start scrapping the coat
[16:18] <DanielTheFox> creating broken sectors like crazy
[16:18] <RoyK> "spinning rust" is a common word for rotational harddisks
[16:18] <DanielTheFox> and again, I said I need lowcost long-term storage
[16:18] <RoyK> (or two words, or whatever)
[16:19] <RoyK> then spinning rust it is
[16:19] <DanielTheFox> yap
[16:19] <DanielTheFox> if I happen to have enough moneys on hand, I'll buy a physically larger model of ThinkCentre
[16:19] <RoyK> 4000 8" floppy drives in a huge RAID :D
[16:20] <DanielTheFox> this one only has space for 1 DVD drive (which I use a lot, don't blame at me) and 1 HDD
[16:20] <RoyK> (or perhaps that should be RAIF)
[16:20] <GeekOfflineNL> I still have a working laptop with "spinning rust" from 2006. Works great witn Rasbian for PC on it. I doubt if SSD will still work after 12 years :-)
[16:21] <Tenkawa> ok... my drive is only sata 3
[16:21] <DanielTheFox> I have some old Seagate from mid 90's (428 MB size, noisy as hell) that still works
[16:21] <Tenkawa> just verified
[16:21] <RoyK> GeekOfflineNL: you never know - use redundancy and keep backing up your data
[16:21] <Tenkawa> good ole hdparm -I
[16:21] <GeekOfflineNL> RoyK, :-)
[16:21] <RoyK> GeekOfflineNL: I've been working with storage or almost two decades and the most important thing I've learned is that it eventually fails
[16:22] <Tenkawa> RoyK: there's "always
[16:22] <DanielTheFox> everything fails
[16:22] <Tenkawa> "" exceptions
[16:22] <Tenkawa> and I've had storage fail in under a week
[16:22] <DanielTheFox> how long it takes to happen, that's the thing we care about
[16:23] <Tenkawa> I've been working in storage for 20+ years
[16:23] <RoyK> obviously there are exceptions, but would you bet on it? 50TB on a RAID-5 and two drives die and *oops*
[16:24] <DanielTheFox> stuff trash in the cloud
[16:24] <RoyK> My house have never cought fire, so I don't need an insurance…
[16:24] <DanielTheFox> and sue them if something just "fails"
[16:24] <DanielTheFox> :>
[16:24] * uks (~uksio@p200300CB1BDE496B21C8295DD6F75EEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:24] <Tenkawa> if I had 50tb to raid I'd never risk it under raid5 with a mirror
[16:24] <Tenkawa> thats just too much data to lose
[16:24] <RoyK> better use smaller raid6 sets
[16:25] <RoyK> and lvm on top
[16:25] <Tenkawa> agreed
[16:25] <RoyK> and keep a backup
[16:25] <Tenkawa> raid 10
[16:25] <RoyK> no, it's more vulnerable than raid 6
[16:25] * DeadTOm (~deadtom@2001:4b98:dc0:41:216:3eff:fe58:44d0) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:25] <RoyK> with 10 drives in a r10, two drives can take down the entire raid
[16:25] <RoyK> r10 is better for IOPS, though
[16:26] <RoyK> sync writes
[16:26] <RoyK> and reads
[16:26] <Tenkawa> with mirrors you're fine
[16:26] <RoyK> but with r6 you can lose *any* two drives
[16:26] <Tenkawa> I "always" mirror
[16:26] * jerryq (~jerryq@2601:1c0:6101:be7a:34c5:d669:6d39:8a5b) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[16:26] * DanielTheFox has only one 500 GB HDD, nowhere to mirror to :)
[16:26] <RoyK> I mostly use mirrors for root and such and r6 for data
[16:27] <Tenkawa> had a whole datacenter go out on me once
[16:27] <RoyK> I guess that hurt a bit :)
[16:27] <Tenkawa> good thing we had the mirrors to switch to
[16:27] <Tenkawa> yes
[16:27] <RoyK> power spike?
[16:27] <Tenkawa> yep
[16:27] <Tenkawa> storm
[16:27] <DanielTheFox> shut the entire rack down during a storm
[16:28] <DanielTheFox> the lost sales won't overtake the lost money on broken equipment
[16:28] <Tenkawa> DanielTheFox: tornadoes dont wait
[16:28] <RoyK> I saw a datacenter once after it got 5kV where it should have had 240V
[16:28] <Tenkawa> and come out of nowhere
[16:28] <RoyK> a lot of interesting failures - HDDs and PSUs
[16:28] <Tenkawa> RoyK: melted stuff right?
[16:28] <shauno> I've actually just spent most my day cleaning up a (small) DC that fell over :/
[16:28] <RoyK> interestingly, the supermicro machines were all humming happily
[16:29] <RoyK> Tenkawa: it was only a spike, so no
[16:29] * DanielTheFox stares funny at some HP server that has USB ports inside, as if someone opening the machine was gonna put a USB stick there
[16:29] <Tenkawa> lucky... I've seen melted 240 and 440 circuits
[16:29] <Tenkawa> not a good site
[16:29] <Tenkawa> er 220
[16:30] <shauno> DanielTheFox, most our dells have that too. it's normal. it's real handy for sticking esxi on
[16:30] <Tenkawa> my house has has 110 and 240 (you dont want to know)
[16:30] * DanielTheFox only has 120, and that when the weather isn't in a bad mood
[16:31] <RoyK> we just needed emergency power for a day or two, so they setup an external diesel PSU, disconnected the mains and connected the diesel thing and - oops - 4kV surge on the machines - popcorn time!
[16:31] <Tenkawa> you should see the the massive breaker boxes I have in my power room
[16:31] <DanielTheFox> poopcorn
[16:31] <Tenkawa> RoyK: yep
[16:32] <DanielTheFox> how noisy is that place?
[16:32] <Tenkawa> dont forget the aroma
[16:32] <Tenkawa> of diesel
[16:32] <DanielTheFox> some people has said they sound like jet airplanes taking off
[16:32] <Tenkawa> haaahaa
[16:32] <DanielTheFox> probably not something I'd stand more than 3 minutes
[16:32] <RoyK> the diesel thing was about 2m^2, but outside
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[16:33] <Tenkawa> then again I am a gearhead so i kind of didnt mind it
[16:33] * DanielTheFox likes cars too
[16:33] <Tenkawa> at the time I was an amateur racer
[16:33] <DanielTheFox> RoyK: how noisy is a datacenter room?
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[16:34] <Tenkawa> DanielTheFox: thats a very relative question
[16:34] <DanielTheFox> hmm
[16:34] <RoyK> I don't work there anymore, but the place I work, it's perhaps 80dB on the top
[16:34] <Tenkawa> depends on how many machines, etc
[16:34] <DanielTheFox> not much worse than a car speeding with the windows open
[16:34] <DanielTheFox> Tenkawa: how much equipment there where you are?
[16:34] <RoyK> 1U things make a lot of noise
[16:34] <DanielTheFox> (or were?)
[16:35] <DanielTheFox> and, then, how noisy?
[16:35] <RoyK> 4U things or blade centres have larger fans, so they don't make that much fuss
[16:35] <Tenkawa> the one I spent the longest in was loud enough I'd actually go in to relax because I enjoyed the noise.. I hate the quiet of office emptiness
[16:35] <DanielTheFox> uhh
[16:35] <Tenkawa> 1u are whiny high pitch
[16:35] <DanielTheFox> my ThinkCentre isn't that noisy, but the frequency is in the right place it shouldn't be in :/
[16:36] <DanielTheFox> yeah, high pitch here, but heck, for a goddamn low-end workstation/PC
[16:36] <DanielTheFox> can't tell if it's tolerable or not :)
[16:36] <Tenkawa> the ones I worked on had those large blade low frequency fans that really got the air moving
[16:36] <RoyK> As for questions about linux and RAID, try #linux-raid
[16:37] <DanielTheFox> I'd like to be in a datacenter room
[16:37] <DanielTheFox> enjoy the noise for a minute or two
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[16:38] <Tenkawa> DanielTheFox: cant answer datacenter question.. I dont work in an office anymore.. I work independently..
[16:38] <Tenkawa> I'm not too far from retirement
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[16:40] <RoyK> Tenkawa: btw, where're you from?
[16:41] <Tenkawa> ohio
[16:41] <RoyK> ok
[16:41] * RoyK waves from Oslo
[16:41] <Tenkawa> Greetings from the USA
[16:41] * SimonNL (~SimonNL@3E91CC9C.cm-13.dynamic.ziggo.nl) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:42] <Tenkawa> Hopefully your weather is better
[16:42] <RoyK> The land of the Amazing Trump? ;)
[16:42] * Budgii (~Budgii@unaffiliated/budgii) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:42] <Tenkawa> we're getting pummeled with snow
[16:42] <RoyK> not too bad https://www.yr.no/place/Norway/Oslo/Oslo/Grorud~2254630/hour_by_hour_detailed.html?spr=eng
[16:42] <RoyK> seems spring is coming early this year
[16:43] <Tenkawa> my in-laws were hit with -55 F two weeks ago
[16:43] <GeekOfflineNL> greetings from a sunny 15 degrees celcius Holland
[16:43] <GeekOfflineNL> :-)
[16:43] * RoyK kicks GeekOfflineNL in the ass
[16:44] <Habbie> 15? you must be somewhere just outside the border ;)
[16:44] <Tenkawa> but they also live in a ski resort area where it suppose to be cold and snowy
[16:44] <GeekOfflineNL> no trump, no rain, no freezing cold :-)
[16:44] <Tenkawa> there was one area that was like -70 or -80
[16:44] * RoyK kicks GeekOfflineNL in the ass once more
[16:44] * Envil (~envil@55d4816a.access.ecotel.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:44] <GeekOfflineNL> Habbie, neer belgium
[16:44] <Habbie> GeekOfflineNL, see ;)
[16:45] * Envil (~envil@55d4816a.access.ecotel.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:45] <Tenkawa> I grew up in the south usa and even there its dramaticly colder than when I lived there decades ago
[16:46] * Spr1ng (~Spr1ng@unaffiliated/spr1ng) has joined #raspberrypi
[16:46] <RoyK> Tenkawa: well, the polar winds are slowing down, so stationary low- and high-pressure systems are growing
[16:47] * akk (~akk@ has joined #raspberrypi
[16:47] <RoyK> Tenkawa: as the poles get warmer, the stratospheric polar winds weaken and thus, you get more stable and warmer/colder weather at times
[16:47] <Tenkawa> its getting eerie
[16:48] <RoyK> Tenkawa: I'm just saying what I know about this - I've studied a bit of meteorology and worked with people studuing the climate
[16:49] <Tenkawa> yeah I agree
[16:51] <RoyK> - and what does the Trumps say? (naanannananaaaaanaaaaanaaaaaah)
[16:52] * drzacek (~drzacek@b941c009.business.dg-w.de) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:52] <stiv> the current cold spell in the US is unprecedented. and by unprecedented, i mean since the last time it happened a few years back
[16:53] <Snert> unpresidented?
[16:53] <RoyK> undertrumped
[16:53] <Snert> Enviornmentally Challenged.
[16:54] * v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[16:54] * indomitable (~indomitab@unaffiliated/indomitable) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[16:54] <Tenkawa> actually we are setting records in my area for rainfall, snow, temps, etc
[16:54] <RoyK> or evolutionarily challenged
[16:55] <RoyK> or intellectually challenged? or what more?
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[16:59] <Snert> Terraforming. PC police don't like that term. Climate Reassignment they call it :)
[16:59] * gargantua (~gargantua@unaffiliated/elbo22) has left #raspberrypi
[17:00] <uriahheep> there's a reason why global warming was already renamed to climate change: increased weather fluctuations means hotter and colder
[17:00] <RoyK> I just read an article about historic high measurements of methane - should that surprise anyone?
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[17:01] * trystan_ (~trystan@broadband.plus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:01] <trystan_> hello all you rasperipians
[17:02] <trystan_> or rather raspberrypians
[17:02] <Tenkawa> bbialw ....need lunch..
[17:02] * Tenkawa (187ba226@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[17:02] <RoyK> trystan_: hi - you're interrupting our non-scheduled climate discussion :)
[17:02] <trystan_> RoyK: So how's the climate doing this century?
[17:03] <RoyK> getting warmer
[17:03] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:03] <trystan_> Yes, and it seems more extreme weather.
[17:03] <RoyK> trystan_: but perhaps we should stick to topic for once :)
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[17:03] <uriahheep> colder too
[17:03] * zzzoid (~zzzoid@85-195-242-83.fiber7.init7.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:03] <RoyK> both - because of reduced polar jetstreams
[17:04] <RoyK> meaning wether will stick to one place longer
[17:04] <uriahheep> hmm. quite likely
[17:04] <RoyK> it's the best theory so far
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[17:05] <trystan_> What is the carbon footprint of generating electricity at the power station, transporting it by power cables, dropping the voltages and charging the batteries on an electric vehicle I wonder?
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[17:07] <Habbie> trystan_, that just comes down to the footprint of generating, right?
[17:07] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-bceea9-235.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Quit: plom)
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[17:08] <trystan_> No it's the power line losses too, battery efficiencies, and power charging losses.
[17:08] <Habbie> well yes
[17:08] <Habbie> you'd have to generate enough to cover those, is what i mean
[17:08] <Habbie> so the footprint is still on the generating side
[17:09] <trystan_> Yes, in that sense. So what percentage of the generated energy is useful energy when it hits the tarmac in the electric car?
[17:09] <pyfgcr> my phone/tablet/laptop seems to lose about 1/2 of generated power
[17:10] <pyfgcr> that is, convering Ac to DC
[17:10] <pyfgcr> *AC
[17:10] <trystan_> And of course electric vehicle batteries are DC
[17:10] <pyfgcr> the line loss and internal battery resistance is something I don't know about
[17:11] <trystan_> SO the "zero emissions vehicles" are still emitting, but it's displaced a hundred or so miles away at a power station?
[17:12] <Habbie> of course
[17:12] <Habbie> assuming the power station emits
[17:12] <Habbie> and once things are electric, it is -possible- to change that
[17:12] <pyfgcr> well, that depends how you generate electricity
[17:12] <pyfgcr> Habbie: exactly
[17:12] <Habbie> baby steps
[17:13] <trystan_> And if we all turned to electric vehicles then would there be enough generating capacity or the cable infrastructure?
[17:14] <pyfgcr> do not only wonder about cable infrastructure, but also power generating facilities
[17:15] <Habbie> trystan_, no :)
[17:15] <trystan_> In the UK, 40% of electrical power is by fossil fuels.
[17:15] * GeekOfflineNL (~GeekOffli@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:15] <pyfgcr> at present, they can only cover current consumes, which don't include cars
[17:15] <stiv> my electric car runs on uranium!
[17:15] <trystan_> stiv: I bet it goes like a bomb!
[17:15] <RoyK> pyfgcr: if the loss it at 50%, you have a really bad power supply
[17:16] <stiv> trystan_, heh
[17:16] <pyfgcr> but of course, the conversion to electric cars is not going to happenin a suddenn
[17:16] <RoyK> zero NOx sumission, though
[17:16] <RoyK> which is good in cities
[17:17] <RoyK> people actually die from high NO/NO2 (NOx) sumissions
[17:17] <pyfgcr> RoyK: maybe I misinterpreted the information printed on them; unfortunately I don't have one here to tell you the exact data
[17:18] <RoyK> CO2 just warms up a bit - or quite a lot - and melts tundra which releases CH4, which warms things up even more
[17:18] <trystan_> Apparently coal fired generation is about 30 to 40% effiecient. This does not include powerline losses.
[17:19] <RoyK> trystan_: spills a lot of co2 and black carbon (ash) too
[17:20] <RoyK> and black carbon is then transported north and south with the circulation and settles on the snow in the arctic or antarctic and snow hits it and things melt faster
[17:20] <trystan_> So effectively that is what the electric cars are spilling out (about 40% of them)
[17:21] <RoyK> trystan_: guess that depends on where the power comes from
[17:21] <trystan_> RaspberryPi question - interfacing raspberry pi's using cheap walkie talkies?
[17:21] * msimpson (~msimpson@178-23-128-190.host.as51043.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:21] <Habbie> interfacing in what way?
[17:22] <trystan_> RoyK: Well 40% of electrical power is by fossil fuel
[17:22] <trystan_> Habbie: Send simple data from one and another over a couple of miles
[17:22] <Habbie> trystan_, ah
[17:22] <Habbie> trystan_, well, AX.25?
[17:22] <trystan_> Packet radio is that?
[17:22] <Habbie> yes
[17:23] <trystan_> Has that been done with PIs directly or do they need TNC controllers
[17:23] <RoyK> trystan_: depends where you live
[17:24] <RoyK> trystan_: here, in .no, most is from waterpower
[17:24] <Habbie> trystan_, i have no idea
[17:24] <trystan_> RoyK: Yes, quite right.
[17:25] <RoyK> damn - X.25 over radio? :D
[17:25] <trystan_> Habbie: I've Googled AX25 raspberrypi and I've got further now - thank you
[17:25] <Habbie> trystan_, oh cool
[17:25] <RoyK> I haven't looked at X.25 since - what - 1993 or so
[17:25] <trystan_> That's when packets dropped
[17:26] <RoyK> X.25 has retransmit and checksumming on the link level
[17:26] <trystan_> I've still got a Tiny2 TNC somewhere
[17:26] <RoyK> old protocol…
[17:26] <RoyK> doesn't seem to fit into the OSI model very well
[17:27] <trystan_> So let's say you have two raspberrypis. One is at home, the other is in a vegetable plot allotment.
[17:28] * Tobbi (~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[17:28] <trystan_> So every now and again you send a signal from home to the allotment and ask about conditions there (soil dampness, and water level in tank, temperature)
[17:29] <trystan_> The allotment then replies with that data, but only when requested
[17:29] <galtj> yes
[17:29] * lopta (~ball@74-84-114-18.client.mchsi.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:30] <galtj> correct
[17:30] <trystan_> So what would be a good system to achieve that goal?
[17:31] <akk> trystan_: https://www.sparkfun.com/pages/xbee_guide mentions some options that go up to 15 miles.
[17:31] <trystan_> xbee are expensive though
[17:31] <akk> Or even 28 miles with the right antenna.
[17:31] <lopta> What sort of range can LoRa get? Line of sight?
[17:33] <trystan_> Very cheap walkie talkies can easily get a couple of miles reliably, and that's the only distance that I need
[17:33] <friendofafriend> lopta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adhWIo-7gr4
[17:33] <RoyK> LoRa on 169 MHz should get pretty decent distance, if given enough power
[17:33] <RoyK> and a good antenna
[17:34] <lopta> friendofafriend: I'm at the office and Youtube is blocked here.
[17:34] <trystan_> 169MHz isn't a legal frequency in the UK. I'm a licenced Radio Ham, so I was planning on programming the walkie talkies to the 2m or 70cm band to operate them legally
[17:35] <friendofafriend> lopta: Sorry, 200km LoRA video from Andreas Spiess.
[17:35] <trystan_> friendofafriend: Thank you - impressive distances
[17:35] <lopta> Thanks friendofafriend
[17:35] <pyfgcr> lopta: are vpn and tor also blocked? otherwise it is useless
[17:35] <friendofafriend> Always welcome, to the both of you. Those LoRA boards are really cool.
[17:35] <lopta> pyfgcr: I can ssh out, so probably not. ;-)
[17:36] <friendofafriend> ssh -D and SOCKS proxy? :o
[17:36] <lopta> Is LoRa just ISM or ham too?
[17:36] <lopta> 70cm?
[17:36] <trystan_> lopta: 70cm is an amateur radio band (433Mhz-438MHz)
[17:36] <friendofafriend> lopta: https://github.com/travisgoodspeed/loraham
[17:37] <lopta> trystan_: I know. I have a 70cm HT :-)
[17:37] <trystan_> Oh, I thought you were asking me :)
[17:38] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[17:38] <trystan_> So, raspberry pi > USB Sound card > Mic & Speaker connections on WalkieTalkie, and some clever software
[17:38] <lopta> trystan_: That seems a bit baroque.
[17:39] <trystan_> Thank you
[17:39] * kb9ylw (~ball@74-84-114-18.client.mchsi.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:39] <lopta> :-)
[17:39] * lopta (~ball@74-84-114-18.client.mchsi.com) has left #raspberrypi
[17:39] <friendofafriend> Link to the repo is LoRA on 70cm using an Adafruit M0 LoRa Feather board.
[17:40] <trystan_> Why go for the simple option if a more convoluted way can be achieved with more difficulty
[17:40] <kb9ylw> Heath Robinson ftw?
[17:40] <friendofafriend> Channel at #loraham .
[17:41] <kb9ylw> Thanks friendofafriend!
[17:41] <friendofafriend> Very welcome. Just found someone named "Lora Ham", the poor dear.
[17:43] <trystan_> friendofafriend: Ooh that looks jolly interesting
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[17:43] <kb9ylw> brb, printing a band chart.
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[17:45] <kb9ylw> trystan_: I missed the beginning of the conversation, what's your objective with the HTs?
[17:45] <trystan_> Bloomin 'eck - have you seen the price of them??
[17:45] <kb9ylw> APRS?
[17:45] <kb9ylw> trystan_: One Pound Thirty Eight?
[17:45] <trystan_> The allotment is not on the move
[17:45] * Ant1SG (~Ant1SG@lfbn-1-12040-70.w90-92.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[17:45] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:46] <friendofafriend> trystan_: The Feather? Yes, small fortune.
[17:46] <DanielTheFox> friendofafriend: haha, I'm not the only one who blocks YouTube (despite my bedroom/private LAN not being a workplace) :D
[17:46] <trystan_> Adafruit M0 LoRa Feather is 1.38 ?
[17:46] * Ant1SG (~Ant1SG@lfbn-1-12040-70.w90-92.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:46] <kb9ylw> trystan_: No, sorry. I made that up.
[17:46] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:46] * Ant1SG (~Ant1SG@lfbn-1-12040-70.w90-92.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:47] <kb9ylw> I haven't tried Adafruit's Feather yet. I've looked at them but the shear variety is daunting.
[17:47] <kb9ylw> No idea which one to start with.
[17:47] <trystan_> A pair of Baofeng Walkie Talkies will set you back less than a couple of KFC meals
[17:48] <DanielTheFox> can those walkie talkies have line input/output?
[17:48] <DanielTheFox> (so we can send dial-up-like binary data over the air)
[17:48] <friendofafriend> I think the reason those fellows are using the Feather is for the form-factor.
[17:49] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: Probably not at dial-up speeds.
[17:49] * janco (~janco@83-160-103-27.ip.xs4all.nl) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[17:49] * DanielTheFox is a fan of sending binary data over voiceband frequencies ;)
[17:49] <DanielTheFox> it's fun, slow, but fun
[17:49] * theGoat (~textual@payphone.landofhaze.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:49] <kb9ylw> I /would/ like to try Olivia one day.
[17:50] <DanielTheFox> everyone using that channel will be puzzled about who is doing those robot-like sounds
[17:50] <kb9ylw> That and WSPR
[17:50] <trystan_> DanielTheFox: They have mic input and speaker output jacks,and you can solder a lead to the "COS Line" on their bo
[17:50] <trystan_> ards
[17:50] <friendofafriend> Got AX.25 working over a CC1101L.
[17:50] <kb9ylw> friendofafriend: What is a CC1101L?
[17:50] <trystan_> I was wondering that
[17:50] <Habbie> http://www.ti.com/product/CC1101#
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[17:51] <friendofafriend> Yep, code here. https://github.com/f4exb/picc1101
[17:51] * toxync21 (~toxync21@ Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[17:52] <Mewster> Hello, can I ask a question about QT cross-compiling for PI3 here?
[17:52] <Habbie> Mewster, try us!
[17:52] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) has joined #raspberrypi
[17:53] <Mewster> I'm following this (https://wiki.qt.io/RaspberryPi2EGLFS) tutorial to compile QT for PI. I can configure 5.10, 5.11 but on 5.12 I get the opengles2 "can't pass the tests" error.
[17:53] <DanielTheFox> trystan_: and do I need any special care when throwing non-amplified line signal onto microphone input?
[17:53] <Mewster> Since I thought that I had to get that error with every QT version I'd try to configure, and not only with a single version, is this a common issue?
[17:55] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: I'd think you'd have to attenuate it
[17:55] <kb9ylw> (perhaps with a resistor)
[17:55] <DanielTheFox> oh, ok
[17:56] <DanielTheFox> ...or I'd just open the walkie-talkie (don't arrest me, FCC) and find a way to bypass the microphone amplifier
[17:56] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: Might be easier to build a new radio. ;-)
[17:56] <Mewster> (i thought every renaming/relinking of libraries I found on the net, though, with no success)
[17:56] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: Will you be doing voice and data or just data?
[17:56] <DanielTheFox> I wonder how cheap is a walkie-talkie-like radio module
[17:56] <DanielTheFox> yes, just data :)
[17:57] <DanielTheFox> 300 baud would be enough
[17:57] <kb9ylw> Radio modules probably cost less than walkies.
[17:57] <DanielTheFox> or, actually, even 110 baud would be enough
[17:57] <trystan_> DanielTheFox: You'd just put a potentiometer across the mic input and adjust it down
[17:57] <kb9ylw> 110 baud is nice for 7e2...
[17:57] <DanielTheFox> ok
[17:57] <kb9ylw> 10 CPU
[17:57] <kb9ylw> CPS*
[17:58] <DanielTheFox> as walkie-talkie signal is half-duplex
[17:58] <trystan_> Those RF modules would struggle over two miles in a built up aerial, with no means of poinitng directionalantennas at each other
[17:58] <DanielTheFox> I'd need to find a way to distribute time slices
[17:58] <DanielTheFox> I guess 100ms will be enough
[17:58] <kb9ylw> trystan_: depends which one you get and what antenna you put on it, I think
[17:58] <trystan_> DanielTheFox: You'd send just simple commands back and forth via simplex
[17:58] <kb9ylw> (and how high up you can get them ;-)
[17:59] <DanielTheFox> ah, then
[17:59] <DanielTheFox> and since I'm the only who will use it
[17:59] <DanielTheFox> I don't even need the time slices-- I trust myself that none of them will become greedy and take all the transmission time for themselves
[17:59] <trystan_> Think of it that the transmitter in the allotment would be inside a wooden garden shed
[17:59] <kb9ylw> I should put a radio in /my/ shed!
[18:00] <kb9ylw> How far away is your allotment?
[18:00] <kb9ylw> ...and have you planted anything yet?
[18:00] <trystan_> two miles, build up
[18:00] <kb9ylw> (ground is still frozen here)
[18:01] <trystan_> The wx here is about 50F (10C)
[18:01] * clemens3_ (~clemens@mx.eniso-partners.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[18:01] <trystan_> I suppose for really simple youcould just us DTMF tones
[18:02] <DanielTheFox> now
[18:02] <DanielTheFox> on both ends, there'll be a RPi
[18:02] * outofsorts (~outofsort@ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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[18:02] <trystan_> The data retured could be in a fixed format, always in the same order to keep things simple
[18:02] <trystan_> ok
[18:03] <DanielTheFox> the kind of stuff I do requires working on places with zero internet or other modern data coverage
[18:03] <DanielTheFox> the only reliable way is direct radio communication
[18:03] <DanielTheFox> and it doesn't even need to be walkie-talkies on UHF
[18:03] <kb9ylw> This sounds like a great application for LoRa
[18:03] <kb9ylw> (or something like it)
[18:03] <DanielTheFox> any radio module will do, preferably on SW band
[18:04] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: Why SW?
[18:04] <DanielTheFox> and as long as it can reach 50 km
[18:04] <trystan_> 50KM blimey
[18:04] <DanielTheFox> kb9ylw: lower-frequency will have lower quality, but survives longer distances
[18:04] <DanielTheFox> MW is regulated by FCC
[18:04] <DanielTheFox> (this is where AM radio lies)
[18:05] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: Depends what country you're in but yes, use something legal.
[18:05] <DanielTheFox> SW is amateur band, hopefully not too regulated by FCC
[18:05] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: ...and yes, ham bands are regulated too.
[18:05] <trystan_> It is regulated by the FCC
[18:05] <DanielTheFox> Mexico appears to use the exact same rule sets as USA
[18:05] <DanielTheFox> ok, so I'll have to find another band
[18:05] <DanielTheFox> the longer the wave is, the better
[18:06] <kb9ylw> Erm... no.
[18:06] <DanielTheFox> apparently, analog TV VHF is not regulated anymore, but I am not fully certain of it, can someone check?
[18:06] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: 2 miles should be doable with UHF or VHF
[18:06] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: Yes, that's regulated too.
[18:07] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: What country are you in?
[18:07] <DanielTheFox> Mexico
[18:07] <DanielTheFox> hmm
[18:07] <kb9ylw> OK, not sure what the rules are there.
[18:07] <DanielTheFox> let's assume it's the same as USA with FCC
[18:07] <kb9ylw> They probably have some equivalent to ISM.
[18:07] <DanielTheFox> (many devices and standards used here come from there)
[18:08] <trystan_> DanielTheFox: You could probably use CB frequencies for this application
[18:08] <trystan_> 27MHz
[18:08] <DanielTheFox> law enforcement is weaker here and has little ways to detect faults where most people don't even hear
[18:08] <DanielTheFox> ah, Civilian Band?
[18:08] <DanielTheFox> cool
[18:08] <trystan_> Yes
[18:08] <trystan_> Citizen Band
[18:09] * Mewster (9754ac73@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Quit: Page closed)
[18:09] * nighty- (~nighty@b157153.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) Quit (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)
[18:09] <kb9ylw> Adafruit have 433 MHz TRX boards for US$ 20
[18:10] * mike_t (~mike_t@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[18:11] <d0rm0us3> can probably find a pair of FRS transceivers for around $40
[18:11] <d0rm0us3> FRS is pretty much 'unlicensed'
[18:12] <kb9ylw> d0rm0us3: Perhaps in Mexico. Not in the U.S.
[18:12] <kb9ylw> Well, unlicensed but not unregulated.
[18:12] <trystan_> That's equivalent to "PMR" here in the the UK & Europe. They also allow digital PMR now too on the eight new bands
[18:12] <d0rm0us3> Yes...
[18:12] <d0rm0us3> Regulated at the mfg level.
[18:12] <kb9ylw> 8 new channelss, not bands.
[18:13] <d0rm0us3> Not user level which is Always about Licensing
[18:13] <kb9ylw> channels*
[18:13] <trystan_> yes, channels I meant, sorry
[18:14] <kb9ylw> They have a breakout board for (non-LoRa) 433 MHz too. I'm guessing $10 doesn't include the radio module.
[18:14] <trystan_> They are milliwatt levels though
[18:15] * waveform (~waveform@conference/ubuntuengineering/x-lvnktilvgvrywuqn) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[18:15] <DanielTheFox> hmm
[18:15] <DanielTheFox> so I might be better off digging wires underground?
[18:15] <DanielTheFox> a minimum of 15 km is enough, but if it could reach 40 km it would be better
[18:15] * OERIAS (~OERIAS@ Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[18:15] <trystan_> With CB daniel, you will get 50Km
[18:15] <trystan_> probably
[18:16] <DanielTheFox> and only two machines will be involved, so directional antennas can help
[18:16] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: Is there a reason you haven't looked at ISM radio modules?
[18:17] <DanielTheFox> hmm, too horrible internet to do anything beyond SSH and IRC
[18:17] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: ?
[18:17] <DanielTheFox> (which is what triggered my desire for radio stuff on the first place)
[18:18] <trystan_> DanielTheFox: You can't really use directional antennas on 27MHz practically as they would be rather big
[18:18] <DanielTheFox> kb9ylw: the internet at home I usually use is down
[18:18] <kb9ylw> These are $10 each!
[18:18] <kb9ylw> ...and they're transceivers!
[18:18] <kb9ylw> Adafruit product id 3071.
[18:18] <DanielTheFox> aww, ok
[18:18] <trystan_> DanielTheFox: If it's the internet then check out Mikrotik and Routerboard
[18:19] <DanielTheFox> kb9ylw: so well, I'm using internet from outside, usually I'd have to pay, but I'm using iodine
[18:19] <DanielTheFox> so I have low-speed internet for free
[18:19] <DanielTheFox> enough for IRC, SSH and possible (but haven't tested) Telnet
[18:19] <DanielTheFox> *possibly
[18:20] <DanielTheFox> trystan_: and, on the other hand, I don't want internet :)
[18:20] <DanielTheFox> I just want two computers far away to talk with each other
[18:20] <swift110> hey
[18:20] <kb9ylw> I don't know what iodine is, assuming you don't mean the brown stuff.
[18:20] <DanielTheFox> even if internet is down
[18:20] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: What are the computers sending to one another?
[18:20] <DanielTheFox> kb9ylw: it's Internet over DNS
[18:20] <DanielTheFox> kb9ylw: uhh
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[18:21] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: That's not how any of this works.
[18:21] <trystan_> That's because your intenet acces is restricted by DNS?
[18:21] <DanielTheFox> they'll be sending text messages
[18:21] * ich (~ich@ip-62-143-216-92.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de) Quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
[18:23] * trystan_ (~trystan@broadband.plus.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[18:24] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: You don't seem to be making much sense, which is a shame because I'm interested in slow data communications over radio.
[18:24] <friendofafriend> If it doesn't have to be long range, you could use rpitx and a RTL-SDR.
[18:25] <dTal> internet over DNS is a thing
[18:25] <friendofafriend> Sure is. iodine, hans.
[18:25] <kb9ylw> dTal: What connects you do the DNS though?
[18:26] <friendofafriend> Many services will allow DNS through but nothing else.
[18:26] * ircuser-1 (~Johnny@ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[18:26] <dTal> typically a wifi hotspot that wants you to log in
[18:26] <friendofafriend> There are paid access points here that do it.
[18:26] <friendofafriend> I can't talk about... a certain ISP. >_>
[18:27] <kb9ylw> That sounds dismal ...but slightly interesting anyway.
[18:28] <friendofafriend> Whatever situation is having you connect through such a restricted link is the dismal part. The tunnel-by-DNS solution is abject magic.
[18:29] <friendofafriend> iodine is in the OpenWRT repo, too.
[18:30] <DanielTheFox> kb9ylw: the radio and the DNS thing are separate issues
[18:30] <DanielTheFox> don't even relate them :)
[18:30] <DanielTheFox> the radio thing is for sending text messages and such
[18:30] <friendofafriend> There's GNURadio LoRa blocks.
[18:31] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: Right.
[18:31] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: Have you looked at 433 MHz radio modules?
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[18:46] <Permutation> kb9ylw, not yet
[18:47] * purpleun_ (~purpleuni@unaffiliated/purpleunicorn) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[18:48] <DanielTheFox> :3
[18:49] <kb9ylw> Permutation: That would be my suggestion. Bear in mind that there are LoRa (proprietary) and simple RF modules that use the same band.
[18:49] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:49] <kb9ylw> (bands*)
[18:49] <DanielTheFox> kb9ylw: so how powerful are those modules? (and is there any concern regarding frequency regulation?)
[18:49] <DanielTheFox> ah, no problem
[18:49] <DanielTheFox> hopefully they'll reach at least 10 km
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[18:53] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: I would like to get some to test.
[18:53] <DanielTheFox> nice
[18:53] <DanielTheFox> oh, and for your interest
[18:53] <kb9ylw> I'm also looking at Adafruit's 315 MHz "garage door" type.
[18:53] <DanielTheFox> the majority of this zone is rural
[18:54] <kb9ylw> momentary 315 MHz RX module, US$ 5
[18:54] <kb9ylw> That's pretty hard to beat.
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[19:16] <mythril> anyone here use riscos on their PI and have experience with the GPIO library? it's not working afaict
[19:20] <toastintheshell> naw, I've been meaning to try out riscos, what's your overall impression?
[19:21] <toastintheshell> is it usable as a modern OS? or does it just feel like a novelty?
[19:22] <shiftplusone> If you don't long for the 80s and don't think all modern operating systems are inherently terrible and get in the way, you're unlikely to enjoy riscos
[19:22] <toastintheshell> shiftplusone: I can't say that I don't qualify for all those caveats
[19:22] <toastintheshell> lol
[19:24] <shiftplusone> Then give it a go. Some of the people who know ARM inside out and can write brilliant assembly to optimise applications are riscos users. They sometimes get contracted to do work for raspberry pi.
[19:28] * s8548a (~s8548a@unaffiliated/s8548a) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:29] <toastintheshell> shiftplusone: if that's the case, you'd think the riscos library for gpio would be working pretty well (@ mythril )
[19:29] <gordonDrogon> I was asked once about porting wiringPi to riscos - I think there is a port of it, but I really know nothing more than that. it's 30 years since I last looked at RISCOS.
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[19:30] <mythril> toastintheshell: it's more novelty ended, It's a great representation of the state of the art in 1985 computing
[19:30] <toastintheshell> is riscos unix or what is it?
[19:30] <mythril> It's RiscOS
[19:30] <toastintheshell> lol
[19:31] <mythril> it's lives in it's own world
[19:31] <mythril> *it
[19:31] <toastintheshell> what is your reason for using it? purely for the novelty?
[19:31] <gordonDrogon> I think these days they want it all in capitals.
[19:31] <mythril> I thought it would be a good learning environment to show some true basics
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[19:31] <gordonDrogon> it's an extremely efficient operating system unlike anything you'll have seen or used before.
[19:31] <mythril> Linux is awesome for experienced users, but it's in the way of a lot of stuff
[19:31] <gordonDrogon> "alien" is word I've heard used when describing it.
[19:31] <toastintheshell> sounds like it'd be good for learning some CS things
[19:32] <toastintheshell> DanielTheFox: you around?
[19:32] <kb9ylw> I haven't seen RiscOS in years. We had Arthur before that.
[19:32] <kb9ylw> ...and Acorn NFS before that.
[19:32] <mythril> When showing a newb something I'd like it if they can't accidentally break everything while trying to get their code to run
[19:32] <kb9ylw> brb
[19:32] <gordonDrogon> don't use sudo then.
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[19:34] <mythril> gordonDrogon: 2 things, almost everything is accessible from point and click, and 2: literally every tut in the world tells them to use sudo for everything
[19:35] <shiftplusone> some people swear by riscos because it gets out of the way. You can write assembly that will take over the CPU completely. Some people think they have a reason to do that and that Linux sucks because it doesn't work that way. They also often say they like the version of BASIC you get on it and so on
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[19:36] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[19:36] <shiftplusone> In my experience, it was quite buggy and crashy, with very limited hardware support, very few applications I needed were available and overall, it was clunky. But, that's just me. Like I said, some people will have it no other way.
[19:37] * grenewode (~grenewode@ Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[19:38] <gordonDrogon> yes - it has a small, but fanatical following.
[19:38] <mythril> welcoming crowd
[19:38] <gordonDrogon> for me it was too little, too late. by the time it had gone from "Arthur" (written mostly in BASIC!) to RISCOS I had given my Archemedes away and moved to Linux on a PC.
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[19:41] <gordonDrogon> there's a lot online about RISCOS - a commercial offering, a split or fork of the code, then the 2 groups merging - or something along those lines. It would surprise me if there were any commercial implementations out there right now.
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[20:03] * toastintheshell (~pi@pool-108-7-186-189.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:03] <toastintheshell> am I connected right now?
[20:04] <toastintheshell> oh hello, weird, I got cut off for a minute there
[20:04] <larsks> toastintheshell: nope.
[20:04] * nils_2 (~nils_2@unaffiliated/nils-2/x-2480262) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:05] * toastintheshell (~pi@pool-108-7-186-189.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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[20:08] * tesseract (~tesseract@ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:09] <bizzel> hullo all, i'm looking to set up a very small CCTV network. did a little bit of homework, this seems to be the easiest option: https://github.com/ccrisan/motioneyeos
[20:10] <bizzel> just wondering if anyone had experience with CCTV on the pi
[20:12] <BurtyB> works for me
[20:12] <toastintheshell> haven't tried it yet, but I was planning to some time soon, would also love to hear about someone's experience with it
[20:12] <ShorTie> rpi webcam is cool
[20:12] <toastintheshell> BurtyB: what kind of setup do you have?
[20:13] <toastintheshell> can you view your cameras remotely or anything cool like that?
[20:15] <ShorTie> https://elinux.org/RPi-Cam-Web-Interface
[20:15] <DanielTheFox> toastintheshell: it looks nice
[20:16] <DanielTheFox> I'll grab an SD card from anywhere and give it a try
[20:17] * vertigo235 (~vertigo23@cpe-24-74-15-234.carolina.res.rr.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:17] <bizzel> but USB webcams aren't supported?
[20:17] <BurtyB> toastintheshell, I have a 4 (iirc) pizero+camera -> pi3 all running motioneysos and yes I can watch it from the pub it that helps :)
[20:18] <bizzel> i think motionEyeOS supports all the USB cams that Raspian supports
[20:18] <bizzel> BurtyB: what resolution? what frame rate?
[20:19] * xerox123_ (xerox123@unaffiliated/xerox123) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:19] <toastintheshell> BurtyB: that's pretty sweet, I'll definitely look into it, can you connect more than 1 camera to a single pi maybe through camera socket and usb or something like that?
[20:20] * EightHundo (~EightHund@2600:380:5774:fe8c:788d:e8db:a4f3:85a6) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:20] <toastintheshell> or maybe just use pizeroWs, or do you really need 1 pi per camera for decent video quality?
[20:21] <DanielTheFox> toastintheshell: hello
[20:21] * ant_thomas (~ant_thoma@cpc80157-blbn11-2-0-cust244.10-1.cable.virginm.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:22] * Silversword (silverswor@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/silversword) has joined #raspberrypi
[20:24] <toastintheshell> DanielTheFox: hey man, I had some questions for you not regarding rpi stuff, I'll pm
[20:28] * EightHundo (~EightHund@2600:380:5774:fe8c:788d:e8db:a4f3:85a6) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[20:29] * tvm (~tvm@2a02:8308:f0c1:d00:10d3:6e24:4b9a:11da) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:29] * indomitable starts humming Sexual Healing while casually listening to DanielTheFox and toastintheshell outside their door.
[20:30] * DanielTheFox explodes off his internal split
[20:30] <DanielTheFox> one side laughed like crazy, the one got upset like crazy
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[21:17] <kb9ylw> Anyone have a rough idea how much disk I/O I could expect through USB 2.0 on a Pi 2B or 3B+ if the network adaptor and flash are more or less quiescent?
[21:17] <kb9ylw> (best case scenario)?
[21:17] * Rickta59 (~kimballr@unaffiliated/rickta59) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:19] <DanielTheFox> my ThinkCentre can do 40 MB/s through USB2.0 (if you plug a fast enough USB2/USB3 device, that is)
[21:22] * Snert (~Snert@143-26-237-24.gci.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:23] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: Given the channel, I was thinking more of the Raspberry Pi, which may differ from a PC in that regard.
[21:24] <DanielTheFox> it shouldn't be that different tho
[21:24] <DanielTheFox> also, the network card is been said to do 300 Mbps on the 3B+
[21:25] <DanielTheFox> so maybe the USB2 is working at more or less 30 MB/s
[21:25] <DanielTheFox> slightly slower than my PC
[21:25] <DanielTheFox> but very fast nonetheless
[21:25] * phinxy (~ted@unaffiliated/phinxy) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:25] <DanielTheFox> aaand 30 MB/s across all USB devices, including the network card, as there's only one USB controller
[21:29] <shiftplusone> You can run iperf on a pi3b+ to check the maximum usable bandwidth you can get
[21:29] * fredp (~fredp@unaffiliated/fredp) Quit ()
[21:31] <shiftplusone> Results I find online say around 41MBs (328 mbps)
[21:32] <kb9ylw> shiftplusone: That's quite helpful. Thanks for testing that.
[21:32] * ant_thomas (~ant_thoma@cpc80157-blbn11-2-0-cust244.10-1.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[21:32] <shiftplusone> np
[21:33] <shiftplusone> Your mileage may vary if you're doing something that hits the memory bandwidth limit or are doing something that ties up the CPU at the same time.
[21:33] * Envil (~envil@55d4816a.access.ecotel.net) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:33] <shiftplusone> iperf gives the best case scenario here
[21:33] * torchic___ (~noturboo@i.am.phantas.tk) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[21:35] * kb9ylw nods
[21:35] * shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) Quit (Quit: shibboleth)
[21:35] <kb9ylw> That's more or less what I was looking for. I'm thinking of hanging a couple of hard disks from the USB ports.
[21:36] <kb9ylw> A single disk would probably saturate it but a pair lets me mirror them and might help in terms of seek times too.
[21:36] * MarineEng (~yaaic@metro-cust-185-206-110-44.daladatorer.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:38] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-bcee37-56.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:40] <shiftplusone> agh. chromium fails to build ffmpeg with llvm 6.0. llvm 8.0 works, but it's only in sid. Chromium is always fun to update.
[21:40] <kb9ylw> shiftplusone: Are you on Linux, BSD or something else?
[21:41] <kb9ylw> Oh wait, sid is a Debian thing
[21:41] <kb9ylw> Sorry, I missed that.
[21:41] <shiftplusone> Yeah, this is for Raspbian.
[21:41] <shiftplusone> To update to chromium v72, since what we have now is quite old
[21:42] * MarineEng (~yaaic@metro-cust-185-206-110-44.daladatorer.net) Quit (Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org)
[21:44] <shiftplusone> Alright, I'll leave all that fun for tomorrow. Home time.
[21:46] <kb9ylw> shiftplusone: Have a good evening.
[21:47] <shiftplusone> Thanks. 'night
[21:47] * mythril (4c73c76e@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #raspberrypi
[21:48] <mythril> gordonDrogon: if you're the guy who rote rtb, thank you
[21:48] <mythril> that's exactly the sort of thing I wanted to use to teach w/
[21:48] * MarineEng (~yaaic@metro-cust-185-206-110-44.daladatorer.net) has joined #raspberrypi
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[21:54] * vertigo235 (~vertigo23@cpe-24-74-15-234.carolina.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.github.io)
[21:54] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-bcee37-56.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #raspberrypi
[21:55] <indomitable> mythril, what is rtb
[21:55] <mythril> it's a basic interpreter and graphical environment
[21:55] <indomitable> that sounds awful
[21:55] <indomitable> we should punish him :P
[21:55] <mythril> sort of a simulation of old school teaching environment
[21:56] * davr0s (~textual@host109-155-66-106.range109-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[21:56] <kb9ylw> I like BASIC.
[21:56] <mythril> IMO Basic > python's hot mess
[21:56] <indomitable> python is cancerous
[21:56] * _Trullo (~guff33@h-53-230.A357.priv.bahnhof.se) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[21:57] <Habbie> indomitable, please mind your language, thank you
[21:57] <indomitable> I don't seem to recall any bad language
[21:58] <indomitable> Habbie, "cancer" is not a swear word or anything like that. It's an apt term for something that mutates, infects, and spreads inside something else, in this case programmers' minds.
[21:58] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[21:59] * kb9ylw googles for 3.5" SATA disk enclosures.
[21:59] <GraysonBriggs> I like Python
[21:59] <Habbie> indomitable has requested, in private, to be removed from the channel
[21:59] <Habbie> that wish shall be granted
[21:59] <kb9ylw> GraysonBriggs: I like Algol.
[21:59] * ChanServ sets mode +o Habbie
[21:59] * Habbie sets mode +b *!*@unaffiliated/indomitable
[21:59] * indomitable was kicked from #raspberrypi by Habbie
[21:59] * Habbie sets mode -o Habbie
[22:00] * davr0s (~textual@host109-155-66-106.range109-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:00] <kb9ylw> I should probably use 2.5" hard disks.
[22:01] <kb9ylw> ...but I have a surplus of 3.5" disks.
[22:01] <kb9ylw> ...and they tend to be a little faster.
[22:02] <DanielTheFox> 3.5" consume more power tho
[22:02] <DanielTheFox> which will be a worry if you want to run the HDD off just USB ports
[22:03] <kb9ylw> DanielTheFox: Well the 3.5" enclosures come with a PSU. If I used 2.5" I'd plug them into a powered hub.
[22:03] <DanielTheFox> oh, nice then :)
[22:03] <DanielTheFox> separate PSU is always the best, but somethimes I don't have that available ;)
[22:04] <DanielTheFox> hence why my worry :)
[22:04] * artok (~azo@mobile-access-bcee37-56.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[22:05] * kb9ylw nods
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[22:41] <gordonDrogon> hm. missed all the fun.
[22:42] <korryd> the party just started
[22:45] <toastintheshell> gordonDrogon: rpi is all about making your own fun, no?
[22:47] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:48] <MikeRL> Hmm. I made a mess of my Pi by installing backports. Now I have a backup SD card I want to restore. Problem is, from my Linux laptaop, I am unable to copy and paste the files over. The paste option is greyed out.
[22:48] <MikeRL> Any proper way to copy the backed up files over while retaining permissions?
[22:49] <larsks> MikeRL: 'cp -a' for single files will preserve everything (when run as root); for trees, 'rsync -a' is probably what you want. There are other options (tar/cpio/etc...)
[22:49] <larsks> Wait!
[22:49] <larsks> Do you mean "retaining the permissions" of the *source* files or the *destination* files?
[22:50] <MikeRL> The source files.
[22:50] <larsks> Okay, good, in that case what I said.
[22:50] <MikeRL> I want the same permissions from the backup carried over.
[22:50] * lopta (~ball@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:51] * immibis (~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:54] * SimonNL_Afk is now known as SimonNL
[22:55] * magic_ninja (~sparie1@unaffiliated/magic-ninja/x-4708782) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[22:55] <MikeRL> So run rsync as root, right?
[22:56] * cave (~various@h081217094244.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[22:57] * magic_ninja (~sparie1@unaffiliated/magic-ninja/x-4708782) has joined #raspberrypi
[22:57] <larsks> Yes.
[22:57] <MikeRL> I'm getting this: mike@mike-HP-ENVY-Notebook:/media/mike/root$ sudo rsync -a /media/mike/root/bin/ /media/mike/root1/bin
[22:57] <MikeRL> rsync: change_dir "/media/mike/root/bin" failed: No such file or directory (2)
[22:57] <MikeRL> rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 23) at main.c(1196) [sender=3.1.2]
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[22:57] <MikeRL> Should've used a paste. Hold up a sec.
[22:58] <larsks> does /media/mike/root/bin exist?
[22:58] * xrexeon (~xrexeon@ Quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
[22:58] <gordonDrogon> toastintheshell, oh yes - lots of fun. I've had lots of fun programming it - and writing BASIC on it too.
[22:58] <MikeRL> https://del.dog/inaquqozey.rb
[22:58] * xrexeon (~xrexeon@ has joined #raspberrypi
[22:59] <MikeRL> No. Oops.
[22:59] <larsks> That would do it :)
[23:01] <MikeRL> Sorry got confused on the directory structure. I have a habit of getting confused like that. Long story.
[23:04] <MikeRL> Running rsync as root wasn't wise.
[23:05] * RebelCoder (~RebelCode@ has joined #raspberrypi
[23:05] <MikeRL> That screwed things up. Now I can no longer view the files there.
[23:06] <MikeRL> Be back in a few.
[23:06] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[23:10] * azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[23:10] * goiko (~goiko@unaffiliated/goiko) Quit (Quit: ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿ O'RLY? Bye!)
[23:11] <lopta> Oops
[23:12] * azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:14] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:14] <MikeRL> Back.
[23:15] <larsks> MikeRL: welcome back. what happened?
[23:15] * TechSmurf (~tech@unaffiliated/techsmurf) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:15] <MikeRL> Rebooted.
[23:15] <larsks> running rsync -a does "what it says on the tin": it recursively copies over files, preserving ownership and permissions. Did something go awry?
[23:15] <MikeRL> Had to reformat that new partition as I ran rsync as root.
[23:15] <MikeRL> Messed up permissions.
[23:16] <larsks> You have to run it as root in order to preserve things like ownership (otherwise, you simply can't preserve those attributes, because you can't set anything as a user/group of which you're not a member)
[23:16] <MikeRL> It changed the permission of the whole /media/mike/root directory.
[23:16] * nmeal (gnealz@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/gnealz) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:16] <MikeRL> I couldn't even read it in nautilus.
[23:16] <MikeRL> What are the correct permissions for it?
[23:16] * Night-Shade (~TimF@2a02:8109:9a80:6d80:17f:b49e:ca77:9359) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:16] <larsks> Presumably to whatever /media/mike/root1 was.
[23:17] <MikeRL> Ah I see I overthought things.
[23:17] <MikeRL> Others should still be able to access files in that directory.
[23:19] <larsks> Re: "what are the correct permissions?", I don't know what /media/mike/root is, so I can't answer that.
[23:21] <MikeRL> An sd card mounted with read only access for all users except root.
[23:21] <MikeRL> Think I answered my own question.
[23:21] <larsks> Okay, excellent!
[23:22] <lopta> MikeRL: chmod 755 ?
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[23:29] * lopta (~ball@ Quit (Quit: leaving)
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[23:29] <greyltc[m]> has anyone here run openwrt on their 3B+?
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[23:34] <DanielTheFox> looks like a fair idea
[23:34] <DanielTheFox> but I'd need to have like 20 SD cards to test every software I want to use
[23:35] <DanielTheFox> and the process of backing up/restoring SD card is fairly slow and tedious, it'd be better to have more cards
[23:37] * purpleun_ (~purpleuni@unaffiliated/purpleunicorn) Quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
[23:37] <MikeRL> Think it's all good now. Now to boot.
[23:38] * Buster (Buster@2001:470:1f0b:1639::2) Quit ()
[23:38] * GyroW (~GyroW@unaffiliated/gyrow) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[23:38] <DanielTheFox> recently, I want to use RiscOS and RetroPie
[23:38] <DanielTheFox> now openwrt
[23:38] <DanielTheFox> :P
[23:38] <DanielTheFox> it's just unbelievable :P
[23:38] * CubicEarth (~CubicEart@c-67-168-1-172.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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[23:52] <MikeRL> Thanks guys. The restore succeeded.
[23:53] * VarunAgw_ (~VarunAgw@unaffiliated/varunagw) has joined #raspberrypi
[23:53] <MikeRL> I'll have to remember sudo rsync -a for backups.
[23:53] * MikeRL (~MikeRL@pool-68-134-55-12.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
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These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.