#raspberrypi IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2019-06-19

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[0:25] <Budgii> Does anyone use pi zero?
[0:25] <uriah> yes
[0:26] <Budgii> If i'm just doing weechat IRC relay and pihole on it, do you think it can handle running that? I have the newest one, but don't know that its needed. Im thinking it will use less energy as well. Thoughts?
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[0:26] <Budgii> 3B+ or what ever the new one is. got it last year.
[0:27] <uriah> zero is fine
[0:27] <friendofafriend> Sure, the Pi Zero will handle that on a moderate sized network.
[0:27] <Budgii> awesome. how about power consumption? you think less?
[0:28] <friendofafriend> That workload isn't asking much of it.
[0:28] <Budgii> true
[0:28] <Budgii> does it come with powersupply?
[0:28] <friendofafriend> Nope, you have to purchase one.
[0:29] <Budgii> cool. thanks for the information.
[0:29] <uriah> what's the recommended voltage/current rating for a zero w nowadays? 5.2V 2A?
[0:30] <uriah> or is a solid 5.1V with 1A enough for rpi1 boards still?
[0:30] <friendofafriend> For the Zero? It just depends on what you have attached.
[0:30] <uriah> ok
[0:31] <uriah> powered USB hub
[0:31] <friendofafriend> You're likely fine with 500mA, if you've got nothing attached.
[0:31] <uriah> everything is hooked up though it
[0:31] <uriah> cool
[0:31] <akk> I power a 0w with 1A (reporting from a temperature sensor over wifi, no other tasks) and it's usually fine, though if you're buying a new power supply, buy a 2A, never hurts to have more.
[0:32] <uriah> cool, indeed
[0:32] <uriah> I use a 2A for mine, and a 2.4A for the hub
[0:32] <uriah> :>
[0:32] <friendofafriend> I've got a Pi Zero on a 5V/2A supply with wired ethernet, RS232 serial, parallel port, and sound card.
[0:33] <Budgii> nice.
[0:33] <uriah> very
[0:33] <Budgii> does the zero vs zero w, one does not have built in wireless card?
[0:33] <akk> The zero w has wi-fi, the zero doesn't.
[0:33] <akk> (that's what the w stands for)
[0:33] <Budgii> gotcha. i'd probably want the W then.
[0:33] <Budgii> ohhh
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[0:36] <friendofafriend> The W is certainly the way to go. You won't find a USB wifi dongle cheaper, and it'd be better to have it built-in so you're not using the only USB port.
[0:36] <friendofafriend> Also make sure you have a USB OTG adapter.
[0:36] <Syliss> the rpi 0w is an amazing bit of kit
[0:37] <Budgii> 0w for sure!
[0:37] <Budgii> Has anyone tried the camera module on it?
[0:37] <Syliss> only down fall is that its running first gen cpu but double the ram
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[0:38] <friendofafriend> That camera module is kind of expensive. I'm using a USB webcam, and encoding it to h264 in hardware.
[0:39] <akk> Budgii: I've used the camera module, works fine.
[0:39] <friendofafriend> And there are USB webcams that will even just output h264. $20 https://ameridroid.com/products/usb-cam-720p
[0:39] <Budgii> Is it practical for front of a house?
[0:39] <akk> Yes, should work fine for that if you have somewhere to mount it.
[0:40] <akk> Make a little wood box or something so it's not obvious what it is.
[0:40] <akk> Maybe a birdhouse. :)
[0:40] <Budgii> Hehe. Sometimes it's helpful for it to be seen, in my view
[0:40] <friendofafriend> Practical in the elements?
[0:40] <Budgii> The wiring would be a challenge maybe. Maybe a battery that lasts a few day?
[0:41] <Budgii> maybe not in the elements yea..
[0:41] <friendofafriend> Waterproof will always contain a lot of heat. It's also not practical in direct sun.
[0:41] <DanielTheFox> friendofafriend: is there an "official" way you get RPi stuff from?
[0:42] <DanielTheFox> an "official" shop
[0:42] <Budgii> I just don't trust vivint.
[0:42] <DanielTheFox> or something
[0:42] <friendofafriend> DanielTheFox: Nah, I'm in the US and use Ameridroid. There's Adafruit and Sparkfun also.
[0:42] <DanielTheFox> and, has anybody tested how hot can a Pi get without self-destroying?
[0:43] <DanielTheFox> Probably it'll be a 3B, it is fast and doesn't have nice heat dissipation
[0:43] <friendofafriend> DanielTheFox: Throttles at 80C.
[0:43] <DanielTheFox> ok
[0:43] <DanielTheFox> is 80°C actually harmful for the Pi?
[0:43] <DanielTheFox> (supposedly 85°C is)
[0:44] <ShorTie> it will start shutting down at 80
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[0:45] <friendofafriend> All heat is bad for semiconductors.
[0:45] <Budgii> I have a little fan that is built into my case. I wonder how effective it is.
[0:45] <DanielTheFox> sometime I accidentally tested that using a misventilated case, full speed and force_turbo=1
[0:46] <Budgii> I'm in a very hot climate, 90-110 on average. Outdoor pi camera may not be advised.. wonder if I could get a cooled case
[0:46] <DanielTheFox> it got into the thermal warning overlay, but just the 75°C? warning, not the 85°C one
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[0:46] <DanielTheFox> Budgii: that's 'round the 40°C range, that's indeed quite hot, but it's still very cool for the RPi, just get a fan and you'll be okay
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[0:47] <DanielTheFox> the fan will cool it as best as it can down to ambient temperature, whatever it is
[0:47] <Budgii> DanielTheFox: ok! thank you. If I keep it shaded, I'm thinking that would be beneficial
[0:47] <friendofafriend> Sure, and then you're back to the birdhouse idea. ;)
[0:47] <DanielTheFox> yep, direct sunlight does worse harm than just heating stuff
[0:47] <Budgii> Powering the device is the next challenge. It's a brick house so might have to run a cable.
[0:48] <DanielTheFox> you want a powerbank that can charge and be used/drained at the same time
[0:48] <DanielTheFox> so it serves like an UPS
[0:48] <Budgii> UPS?
[0:48] <DanielTheFox> my dad owns a 16750mAh one, that's overkill for your (probably more reliable than ours) electricity, but that's the idea
[0:48] <DanielTheFox> ununterruptible power supply
[0:49] <Budgii> ah
[0:49] <Budgii> So does it have a cable running to it though? (i assume, sounds dumb to ask)
[0:50] <DanielTheFox> hrm, the powerbank most likely has 5V DC input
[0:50] <DanielTheFox> uhh, but, in order to prevent undervolting issues
[0:50] <DanielTheFox> you want to run a 120V AC (or whatever the power company supplies to your house) wire to the location
[0:51] <DanielTheFox> and then, plug an AC to 5V DC (a charger, official RPi PSU, etcetera) converter right there
[0:51] <DanielTheFox> the shorter the 5V side cable, the less voltage you lose once it reaches the RPi
[0:51] <Budgii> Wonder where I would wire it in. Is it bad to put a small hole on the edge of the roof?
[0:52] <DanielTheFox> make sure it's away rain, so you don't have to put buckets in your house
[0:52] <DanielTheFox> running outdoor AC is complicated, beyond my experience :)
[0:53] <Budgii> good thought. I could seal the hole, I suppose
[0:53] <Budgii> Do you have an example UPS that would be suitable for the camera?
[0:53] <akk> DanielTheFox: No porchlight near the door?
[0:53] <DanielTheFox> hrm, is it 120V AC?
[0:54] <DanielTheFox> akk: no way!
[0:54] <DanielTheFox> the place is dark at night
[0:54] <DanielTheFox> at least, outside the house
[0:54] <DanielTheFox> we don't even have a porch, so it's not much of an issue
[0:54] <akk> Our place is dark but the house is wired for a porch light, we just don't normally turn it on.
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[0:55] <DanielTheFox> anyhow, AC is easier to run on long distances than DC, AC (or high voltages themselves?) stands long distances better
[0:55] <Budgii> I just found something called pijuice. suitable?
[0:55] <DanielTheFox> you don't want to run kilometres of wires carrying 5V DC
[0:55] <akk> (the previous occupants here had like 5000W blazing away all the time, ick)
[0:55] <DanielTheFox> akk: eww
[0:56] <DanielTheFox> electricity is too expensive to waste it like that
[0:56] <DanielTheFox> we have unmetered electricity, but on the other hand, the power transformers on the street side are fairly small
[0:56] <DanielTheFox> they're rated for 75 kW
[0:56] <DanielTheFox> and they're shared across many houses
[0:57] <DanielTheFox> at least, for US standards, where the dammed hair dryer consumes nearly 2kW
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[0:58] <Budgii> DanielTheFox: what are your thoughts on this? https://www.amazon.com/SunFounder-Raspberry-Expansion-Board-Plus-Included/dp/B06Y2XBV8Q/
[0:59] <Budgii> Seem like a good idea?
[0:59] <DanielTheFox> hrm, can't open links right now, text interface
[0:59] <akk> DanielTheFox: They lit the dining room table with 2x200W bulbs (incandescent, natch). I didn't even know there *were* 200W bulbs.
[0:59] <DanielTheFox> what's that expansion board supposedly doing?
[0:59] <Budgii> that's alright. its titled "SunFounder Raspberry Pi 4000mAh 5V/2A Lithium Battery Power Pack Expansion Board-Plus Power Module for Raspberry Pi 3,2 Model B and 1 Model B+, Battery Charger Not Included"
[0:59] <DanielTheFox> akk: me neither, we have up to 75W lightbulbs tho
[1:00] <DanielTheFox> akk: since those transformers are small, it requires little effort to change the general voltage
[1:00] <Budgii> DanielTheFox: It looks like a case that I already have, giving another level to mount to power then next layer the pi
[1:00] <Budgii> I dont know what expansion board is, though, just a guess?
[1:00] <DanielTheFox> and, power-saving argon lights die quickly with those AC power issues, so we have regular old lightbulbs instead
[1:00] <DanielTheFox> and they're often 75W or 60W
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[1:01] <DanielTheFox> (I've got two in my bedroom, 75W each, so it takes 150W to light my bedroom)
[1:02] <DanielTheFox> LED lights are super hyper mega extra expensive (I dunno why, I guess government subsidizes lightbulbs OR customs intentionally put taxes on imported light stuff? I dunno)
[1:02] <akk> They're getting cheaper, finally.
[1:02] <akk> We still have mostly CFL, but starting to convert to LED.
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[1:04] <DanielTheFox> last time I checked, a single LED light that was labeled to produce same light as 100W incandescent lightbulb costed like $10 or a little bit more
[1:04] <DanielTheFox> incandescent ones are $0.50 each
[1:05] <DanielTheFox> same price for any intensity
[1:05] <DanielTheFox> :>
[1:05] <DanielTheFox> akk: are they having that price there wherever you live?
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[1:06] <akk> DanielTheFox: No, they were around $10 a few years ago but now I think they're more like $1.50 (if you buy them in multi-packs when they're on sale).
[1:07] <DanielTheFox> hrm, so I guess there's some cheating on our side/country
[1:07] <DanielTheFox> electric company is state-owned, so they have incentives to make you pay more electricity
[1:07] <akk> ugh
[1:08] <DanielTheFox> how expensive is an incandescent lightbulb there (assuming they sell them at all)
[1:08] <DanielTheFox> ?
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[1:08] <akk> I don't know, we stopped buying those years ago. :) But you can't buy them at all in higher wattages (maybe >=75W? definitely you can't buy 100W)
[1:08] <DanielTheFox> heh
[1:08] <DanielTheFox> you can still get up to 100W anywhere
[1:09] <DanielTheFox> and, again, at these nice prices between $0.50 and $1 (depending on where are you buying them, rather than their quality or consumption)
[1:10] <akk> We switched before they stopped selling them, on principle; electricity isn't that expensive here but we prefer not to waste it.
[1:10] <akk> (having the luxury of being able to afford slightly more expensive light bulbs; I certainly don't blame poor people for buying whatever's cheapest)
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[1:11] <akk> I never liked the CFL much, though, so I'm really happy LEDs are becoming affordable.
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[1:12] <DanielTheFox> notably, the electric company has some underprice (1/3 the actual USA/international/production price) rate for the first 130 kWh you spend on two months
[1:12] <DanielTheFox> since most people think the underprice is the actual regular price, and that the full rate is overpriced, most people with metered consumption try to stay within the 130 kWh rate
[1:13] <Reedy> I'm sure it's dejavu every time I look in here about this sort of time :P
[1:14] <DanielTheFox> akk: how expensive is a kWh wherever you live? AFAIK, it was $0.18 with all and taxes here, fullrate
[1:15] <akk> DanielTheFox: $0.115
[1:15] <DanielTheFox> ok, which country?
[1:15] * teepee (~teepee@unaffiliated/teepee) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[1:15] <DanielTheFox> USA is big, apparently the price range is incredibly wide depending on location
[1:16] <Reedy> It can vary quite a lot in the UK and the UK is small
[1:16] <DanielTheFox> reportedly, prices vary here depending on location too, but it doesn't move much, it's reportedly cheaper on states with power generators (Chiapas, the state where I live in, has two hydroelectric dams)
[1:17] <Reedy> https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-cost-electricity-kwh-uk#nogo
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[1:17] <Reedy> then standing charges...
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[1:19] <DanielTheFox> but there's no way to know other place's price without asking someone, as their website only says Mexico City prices, and I don't actually know the actual pricing for this place
[1:19] <DanielTheFox> I should research more
[1:20] <Reedy> Do you not have online "price comparison" sites that will tell you the price by provider for a location?
[1:20] <Reedy> That's of course, me assuming there's some sort of... deregulation
[1:20] <DanielTheFox> nope
[1:20] <Reedy> And therefore > 1 "provider" you can choose
[1:20] <DanielTheFox> well, the power company here is state-owned :)
[1:20] <Reedy> Most oft he power companies in the UK are owned by the state
[1:20] <akk> DanielTheFox: US
[1:20] <DanielTheFox> so, there's only one company, and bent laws to make it the only company able to sell and distribute electricity :)
[1:20] <Reedy> But those states are usually other countries (like France)
[1:21] <akk> DanielTheFox: New Mexico
[1:21] <DanielTheFox> akk: ok
[1:21] <akk> and we do have county-owned utilities
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[1:21] <DanielTheFox> does your location has a nearby power generator of any kind?
[1:21] <akk> which usually means somewhat lower prices than private
[1:22] <DanielTheFox> ok
[1:22] <akk> No, our power comes from a coal plant maybe 300 mi away, a couple of dams that are a little closer, and a smattering of smaller sources.
[1:22] <DanielTheFox> heh
[1:22] <akk> (they're working on reducing the coal and increasing wind/solar ... slowly)
[1:22] <DanielTheFox> there's not much we can do here :p
[1:22] <Reedy> If only you had a lot of sunlight...
[1:22] <DanielTheFox> only one company that imposes the prices they want "in people's interest"
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[1:23] <Reedy> peoples interest? You mean, shareholder dividence? ;P
[1:24] <Reedy> dividend
[1:24] <DanielTheFox> I'm considering powering the RPi using a good powerbank, a powerful solar panel (that is still affordable without selling parts of my body, probably in the $50 area) and forgetting about blackout issues
[1:24] <DanielTheFox> Reedy: the government :P
[1:26] <Reedy> heh
[1:26] <DanielTheFox> akk: ever done stuff with solar panels?
[1:27] <Reedy> One of the guys that works at the ISP I use is doing some self install solar stuff
[1:27] <Reedy> https://twitter.com/alexbloor/status/1140714466641874944
[1:27] <Reedy> https://twitter.com/alexbloor/status/1139606188277030912
[1:27] <DanielTheFox> the ISP here is a different issue
[1:27] <DanielTheFox> :)
[1:28] <DanielTheFox> but who cares, at least there is internet access, I can't complain
[1:28] <Reedy> Yup, you could be behind the great firewall of china
[1:29] <akk> DanielTheFox: Not much. We're trying to get them for the house but finding a location is difficult and taking time.
[1:29] <DanielTheFox> and they invested some $$$ to make the service better
[1:30] <DanielTheFox> hrm, I was thinking about lower scale
[1:30] <DanielTheFox> like, powering only low-power stuff
[1:30] <DanielTheFox> these RPi don't consume a lot of power, they're good candidates
[1:31] <DanielTheFox> for instance, an arduino drinks even less amps, but uhh, it's not something i'd use like my main computer
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[1:47] <mawk> for low power rpi isn't the first choice that comes to mind DanielTheFox
[1:47] <mawk> I'd rather use stm32l0 MCUs for ultra low power
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[1:48] <DanielTheFox> what about a low-power full-blown Linux box? :)
[1:48] <mawk> we have different definitions of low power maybe lol
[1:48] <mawk> for me low power is something that can stay on battery for months or even years
[1:53] <friendofafriend> The Pi is pretty good on performancec-per-watt.
[1:53] <friendofafriend> performance**
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[2:07] <DanielTheFox> I'll call "low power" anything that consumes less than 20% a bigger (and more powerful) device of its class/use would do
[2:07] <DanielTheFox> given the way I use them, the RPi is comparatively "low power", as it's against a regular desktop computer that consumes 100W
[2:08] <DanielTheFox> notably, the RPi can run for hours and even days with a powerbank
[2:08] <DanielTheFox> that's definitely not doable on a desktop, even if we get around the voltage issue
[2:09] <Reedy> You can do "hours" from a usb c charger and some laptops :P
[2:09] <DanielTheFox> hrm, possibly
[2:09] <DanielTheFox> I don't happen to own neither those laptops nor devices with that connector
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[2:16] <stiv> while true that a pi consumes less power than one of Amazon's data centers, it is not considered "low power" in the embedded world.
[2:16] <DanielTheFox> each device, each usecase
[2:17] <DanielTheFox> since I don't plan to embeed these (I'll use them as remote general-purpose personal computers), then I believe I'm fine with it :)
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[2:17] <DanielTheFox> although I acknowledge there might be better devices for that purpose
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[2:18] <DanielTheFox> (I want to use Linux, a low cost per unit and low power consumption, even if it means a slow computer, and optionally but still something I'd like, it'd be a WiFi antenna (preferably dual-band))
[2:18] <stiltr> I believe his point was more that "low-power" typically has a different meaning to those of us in the embedded world. Not that you should use something different.
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[2:25] * tdy (~tdy@unaffiliated/tdy) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[2:26] <_Shurik_> oh nice, I didn't know they had compute module
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[3:02] * sir_galahad_ad_ (~aaron@cpe-76-179-65-199.maine.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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[3:25] * mia (~mia@unaffiliated/mia) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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[3:59] * xerox123 (xerox123@unaffiliated/xerox123) Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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[4:01] * houkime (~houkime@gateway/tor-sasl/houkime) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[4:01] * Megaf (uid155773@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nehtsqpalngoyvtm) has joined #raspberrypi
[4:05] * Snircle (~textual@ip174-68-86-201.sd.sd.cox.net) Quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
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[4:06] * yutayu (~yutayu@PPPa3855.e13.eacc.dti.ne.jp) has joined #raspberrypi
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[4:11] <ball> Hello xerox123
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[4:13] * YuGiOhJCJ (~YuGiOhJCJ@gateway/tor-sasl/yugiohjcj) has joined #raspberrypi
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[6:20] <k_sze> What's the cheapest DSI display that I can attach to a Raspberry Pi just to display a fullscreen QR code?
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[6:27] <k_sze> actually, maybe not DSI, but just not HDMI because that would mean having an extra cable on the side of the RPi.
[6:27] <k_sze> SPI would also be ok.
[6:28] <k_sze> Or if there's some solution that is even cheaper than RPi, I'm all ears.
[6:28] * AfroThundr|alt (~AfroThund@countervandalism/AfroThundr3007730) has joined #raspberrypi
[6:29] <k_sze> I basically need a device that polls a web server for a QR code to display.
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[7:31] * Disconnected.
[7:31] -hitchcock.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname...
[7:31] -hitchcock.freenode.net- *** Checking Ident
[7:31] -hitchcock.freenode.net- *** No Ident response
[7:31] -hitchcock.freenode.net- *** Found your hostname
[7:31] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
[7:31] -NickServ- You have 30 seconds to identify to your nickname before it is changed.
[7:31] -NickServ- You are now identified for DataBot.
[7:31] -MemoServ- You have 2 new memos.
[7:31] -MemoServ- To read them, type /msg MemoServ READ NEW
[7:31] -freenode-connect- Welcome to freenode. To protect the network all new connections will be scanned for vulnerabilities. This will not harm your computer, and vulnerable hosts will be notified.
[7:31] [freenode-connect VERSION]

These logs were automatically created by RaspberryPiBot on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.